ljazztrumpet

Great insights so far. One technique I can share that I find very simple and effective: Throughout your day, bring the person/people to mind and send them love. Imagine everything good happening for them and feel yourself loving and appreciating them. This may even have an effect over the other person/people over time, but it will definitely have an effect upon yourself and the way you feel about the person. You may be pleasantly surprised when you next interact with them in person!

17 minutes ago, Jeff said:

Can explain the next stages (mystical Christian path) too, if you are ever interested. 

5 minutes ago, TheCLounge said:

I'm all for it and I'm interested in learning..

 

Yes, me too..Any time you have the time and inclination to share...thanks!

5 minutes ago, TheCLounge said:

 

Its like saying "father". But who exactly is your father??

 

I think this is a cultural thing too. In this day and age I find, in the USA anyway, most people certainly don't have ideal childhoods and suffer from various forms trauma as a result of their upbringing. I would wager that, at the time the label god was used as 'father' that the way children were raised and dealt with was of a psychologically healthier nature. 

7 minutes ago, TheCLounge said:

 

 

People of various spiritual beliefs and/or religions know that saying "I AM" has a powerful vibrational effect on your body and mind. 

 

I don't know about that. I do know there is a whole school of belief that believe this does occur. One thing I do feel is that if you are using the term 'I AM' as a replacement for an external god idea, you are most likely taking effective steps in reprogramming your outlook to one of more empowerment and, in that sense, you may be having an actual energetic, healing type of effect on your body and mind.

3 hours ago, Marblehead said:

 

And yes, I have heard too of people replacing their external God with the concept "I Am".

 

I view this as a freeing of the spirit.  It is no longer dependent on something external.

 

Again, Marbleman is 'on point'!;-) In the case of using a label such as ‘God’, I think it can be an unfortunate case as it can disempower many of people who use it/believe in it, as there are many possibilities of turning an internal power into an external one.Then are those, I think of certain Christian mystics, who describe God as being within/without/everywhere. I think these types have had certain insights into nondual ‘realities’ and have a much clearer perspective. They probably realize, experientially on a deep level, that what they are is all there is.

 Then again, there are people who completely externalize God and they still have healings happening in, and around, them as well as emanating a beautiful loving and devotional energy. Also, I notice there are a good amount of people who use the idea of an external God as a surrender mechanism - Such as, ‘I put it all in God’s hands.’ A lot of these types of people seem to have good success and more peace in their lives. Probably many of us here are aware of the steps 2 + 3 of the 12 steps:

1 hour ago, steve said:

 

I'm with you. Even in cases where conventional medicine can cure physical manifestations of illness or injury, the word healing for me brings up addressing illness and injury from a far more comprehensive perspective. Many people suffer from emotional and psychological aspects of illness and injury long after the physical effects are either gone or at least stabilized. 

Exactly steve, very well put..thanks for writing this out! 

13 minutes ago, Gunther said:

you could say that if you dont define zazen in the orthodox way.(siitting down facing a wall)

what is sitting meditation?(zazen)

to rest with a relaxed mind is called sitting

abide in your natural state without confusion is called meditation

(check out Hui Neng, platform sutra)

 

Right Gunther, that's how I was thinking of sitting meditation. I've spent some time studying zazen and meditating in those groups. But I tend to think of sitting meditation as just sitting in any comfortable position and allowing whatever comes up to come up without dwelling on it, judging it, etc.. Just observing what comes up like clouds in the sky. 

I do another type of meditation similar to Buddhist samatha sometimes where I follow the breath counting from 1 - 10 and returning to the count every time a thought comes in. But that, for me, is more about developing a focused attention. 

What gives me the most powerful results at this point in my life is to allow things to come up and to 'send love' to anyone/anything that comes up.. Doing this in formal meditation helps me to carry it over to my daily life and I can remember to do it in more and more situations as I go about my day/night.

1 hour ago, Limahong said:

 

Hey Lex,

 

You strike me as a free spirit that is always seeking... Keep it that way.

 

 

Don't give up on the 'whole'; just add on the good qualities like love, compassion, kindness, humility, etc.

 

Want to bet - you are becoming 'wholesome'? I know I will win.

 

- LimA

Hey LimA, thanks man..That sounds like a great plan!

7 minutes ago, oak said:

I've learned over the years that spiritual capacities and teachings can also be used to harm others so, regarding this matter when I hear "non-doing" I think that most people will use the term as an excuse not to  do what is right which in my point of view is much more harmful than acting for selfish reasons.

 

 

 

This is why, nowadays, I only put stock in spiritual teachings that produce actual practical, real-world results - such as physical and emotional healings of conditions that conventional medicine is unable to cure. To me, this is 'proof' that a teaching is a positive force in the world and that it is something I want to embrace.

1 hour ago, Limahong said:

 

Hi Lex,

 

I am at peace with my present understanding of the concepts on The Void and Emptiness. It took me quite a while to be where I am now. I am aware that others may view these concepts differently. It is fine with me. I respect other views as each life is a road less travelled.

 

Is there a difference for you when it comes to - Self-understanding and self-understanding? If so, please share.

 

I share the same view - sequentially 'someone' comes before 'no one'. Why? I need to know what I have before I can throw anything away.

 

Sometimes I can find peace from the silence of being a nobody.

 

- LimA

Hey Lima, when I refer to self-understanding I am talking about the ‘little self’ I take myself to be. The body/mind self-concept. With Self-understanding, with the big ’S’, I am referring to the idea that what I am, is all there is. No separation between any ‘thing’. I used to study teachings, go to satsangs, do nondual inquiry and meditations, to try and get an experiential feel of this. But, more recently, I found that giving up on that whole pursuit and pursuing developing qualities like love, compassion, kindness, humility, etc. is actually causing me to start really feeling those nondual ideas I used to only know about intellectually. 

4 minutes ago, Gunther said:

It's not focusing at all. It's not an activity. You relax, rest in your natural state. It's passive receptivity, openess. In that clarity the old mind pattern are known. To know means to clearly see, be aware, nothing needs/can be done. That's càlled cultivation

So it seems that you are pointing to something like being in a shikantaza meditation? 

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1 minute ago, oak said:

yes, giving a shit instead of giving some change. It's commpn behaviour how some people immediately look for an excuse to not give a shit.

But it gets harder and harder to not give a shit as you elevate your consciousness!;-)

Yes, that's certainly true.. but I think if a person needs booze/drugs that badly, they may be desperate to self-medicate to alleviate the pain of past trauma/PTSD/physical+emotional pain/etc. So, again, for me, I just have to go with my intuition in each specific situation. The best thing I feel I can do is elevate my own consciousness and develop more wisdom and intuition as I feel that is what will make me a more helpful person in the world in general.

3 minutes ago, TheCLounge said:

lol I'm from and live in Brooklyn and homeless people are everywhere 

 

Best con men in the world. A lot of those guys are doing a lot better than you think! 

Yeah sure, a lot of them are! But, if they are engaging in this type of behavior (conning people), they still need help - although, in this case, giving money might be enabling. The only thing I can go with is trusting my intuition in each specific case. 

2 minutes ago, Gunther said:

Understanding is immediate.

The Buddha( nature ) within is awareness.

Abiding in your true nature (being aware) is automatic cultivation. (By being aware of old self referencing mind patterns, old habits)

I see what your saying - In this type of awareness it feels like you would be practicing a type of focused attention, choosing to focus on awareness of past mind patterns and habits. So you are focusing on abiding in your true nature and that 'causes' an automatic cultivation.

2 minutes ago, oak said:

 

For me the lie is when you see yourself in that homeless man and deny and supress your true feelings, turning him into an object, giving him some "change".

I think for many of us on a path like this it simply takes being consciousness for a few more moments when interacting with a homeless person and, then, you can't not help see yourself in the other person and act accordingly. I speak from personal experience as I live in Queens, NY and work, and walk around, NYC quite often...It also depends on my own state of mind.

If I am in a more peaceful state of mind and sm focusing on my love consciousness practice, this is way easier to do than if I am 'riled up' and/or in a rush to get somewhere. In those cases, I probably won't even 'see' the homeless person. 

31 minutes ago, TheCLounge said:

I think religion has created this idea that one is "obligated" to help others. And if we don't we suffer damnation

 

This is wrong. You are not obligated to help others. If there is obligation then that means it is disingenuous. Anything that requires you to "try" to do something good is disingenuous and only reinforces the ego..

 

The solution is simple...Help when you want to help. And if you don't want to help then simply don't do it. It takes a level of self awareness and honesty to know when you truly want to do something or not.

 

Our egos are very tricky when it comes to decisions. You may think you're doing it because it's good, but chances are you're doing it because you're expecting a reward or because you hope to escape some kind of "bad karma" BS..

 

All of it is wrong. Help only when you truly seek to help. And the best way to help, is to simply...BE

 

If you have to think about doing it, chances are you aren't really doing it. It's your ego. Compassion and forgiveness can only be expressed when you are fully accepting of yourself and the situations that surround you. 

 

If you feel guilty by not giving that homeless man your pocket change then chances are you would have been lying to yourself if you actually did. Which means, there was no compassion. It was simply a lie..

Very good stuff Clounge, the only thing I would say is that there are teachings that will present helping others as a way to gain benefit for yourself. But I believe what happens is that, even if you undertake service only for personal gain, you will evolve to the point where you are doing service, at least the types of service that resonate with you, because it brings you true peace and happiness. I don't think a person would be able to sustain true service for others for too long if they were only doing it for what they thought they could 'get'. Kind of like being in a new romantic relationship - You may be able to fool the person for awhile pretending to be something you're not but, eventually, your true personality comes through!

Just ask my 3rd to 4th last girlfriend

7 hours ago, Limahong said:

 

Yes. Understanding is key. But self-understanding before I cultivate a Buddha nature within?

 

Isn't it just semantics? Form the current way I view things, self-understanding = Buddha nature - Of course I am including Self-understanding along with self-understanding. The latter coming first, since you usually have to be 'someone' before you can be 'no one' ;-)

4 hours ago, Limahong said:

 

Hi Lex,

 

Such 'gurus' likes to enlighten the burdened dimensions of their lives. When greenhorns come along, they become easy chop meat for the 'gurus' to cook with the greenies' chopped wood?

 

Taoist greenhorns of the world unite.

Don't chop, chop & chop till the night.

Give these 'gurus' six hard karate chops.

Be enlightened when you come out tops.

 

- LimA

Yes indeed Lima, I'm not usually a violent man, but I always keep an eye out for that 'Buddha on the road' 

5 hours ago, rene said:

(All formatting emphasis mine)

 

Bravo, Lex! Yes!

 

This is the one of the manifestations of  'Both, same time' - that long time members here have heard me blather about for years, lol. This is how simultaneously standing in two worlds reveals itself. Cheers to Life if that is what 'forced' (LOLOL) you into this blended perspective. Well met!

 

Warm greetings (-:

Rene

 

Thanks Rene, your confirmation of the idea that came to me is encouraging. Especially since I dig a lot of the posts I've read that you've written. Appreciate the confirmation!

Just now, Marblehead said:

Agree.  Our ego is not easy to control.  I have never suggested that being without ego is a good thing.  However, I have on many occasions stated that our ego should reflect reality.

 

And yes, any teacher of anything would have to make sure that what they are doing is not ego based.  That would interfere with the lessons.

 

 

It's the teachers that see themselves on an equal level to their students, that realize they can learn from their students, as well as teach them, that are the ones that I really respect. The ones who have great humility are always the most powerful in all my experiences. 

1 hour ago, C T said:

Compassion is a universal principle, evident in the most fundamental to the most profound change. 

Its impersonal, and it permeates to levels far above & beyond considerations limited to the alleviation of human sufferings. 

Yeah I like this CT. Any specific teachings/books you recommend that talk about this type of things? One of the areas I really like to study. 

5 minutes ago, Marblehead said:

Be careful with this one.  What is the person who is chopping the wood getting in return?

 

Carrying water and chopping wood are lessons too.

 

exactly marbleman. That's the joke. Anyone who sets themselves up as a guru is going to be caught in the ego and that's why they will try to take advantage of others and try to get them to do their work for them. Just check out guruphiliac.org!

1 hour ago, Emera said:

You can't experience other's enlightenment: Not being enlightened before, how can you know if you want to or not want to be enlightened - it's 20/20. It's like rationalizing the state of death.

I think when people are looking to ‘get enlightened’, many times, they are trying to access a certain state of consciousness. I feel that there is much more possibility to fall into egoic traps if someone has a goal of getting ‘enlightened’. To me, it feels much ‘cleaner’ to go for being more loving, kinder, compassionate, benevolent, humble, etc.. Then things that people may consider to fit their definition of enlightenment, such as seeing there is no separation between anything and those types of ‘nondual understandings, just happen as a side effect as they raise the consciousness of love. As they strive to ‘live in the heart’ more. I think cultivating the traits I mention make it much easier do to that famous nondual inquiry 'dwai' is speaking of: 'Who is it that is seeking X, Y, or Z? We become more of the 'dry tinder' that needs only a spark to set it off. 

2 hours ago, Emera said:

Enlightened beings make other chop wood :P.

People who claim to be enlightened, or whoclaim to be 'gurus', make others chop the wood for them