ljazztrumpet

3 minutes ago, C T said:

Maybe some mothers have some traits that are not very different from a scorpion's. 

Humans have limitless means to evolve, after all. 

Live and learn until one gets it right, at some point. 

Yeah, exactly C T..This is right where I am 'weighing in' on this topic as well.

3 minutes ago, cold said:

 

Other wise why would a mother drown her children?

Rather its is innate.

Found in some and not in others.

Just as sadism is.

Just to address one part of what you said cold.. The mother could believe she's acting compassionately. That she brought beings into this world where people are being tortured and are undergoing all types of suffering and that she realized she made a mistake and wanted to take them out of all of that. Of course, for most all of us, drowning a person would be considered a very uncompassionate behavior. Would be quite different if she used a poison where they just fell asleep, etc. 

So it brings up the point: 'Who says what real compassion looks like? Who's qualified to make the decision?' In my experience it's those who render great service.. Like those who are able to effect healings in themselves or others..or are in some way greatly able to alleviate other people's suffering. These are the people I personally listen to when I want to know about compassion and things of that nature.

Just now, oak said:

 

Thanks for sharing this with us... 

man and this thread... no words to thank you for starting it and to thank all the participants.

Yes, well said oak.. This is where I feel it really matters.. All of this stuff that we are discussing.. How does it effect our practical lives? How can we use it for benefit? 

2 minutes ago, oak said:

 

Don't know if I can agree with you in this point. People may have overwhelming experiences that change them at their core, mystical or not. More than 20 years ago I had my life saved at great risk by someone else. Don't realy think I'm the same person since then.

 

 

The way I think of it is that cultivation will happen whether you want it to or not. For some, it might happen in the same lifetime and they recognize it strongly.. For others, like the sociopath example I was referring to, it might not happen in the same lifetime..So one could say in that particular person's lifetime, it's not inborn. But I think it's inborn in all of our existences - speaking beyond the present human lives we are identifying with now... And I use past and present lives just because my thinking mind likes linearity.. Some people start to talk about all lives happening simultaneously and all that type of thing.. But I just give my thinking mind what I feel will just help me get practical results in this life!

4 minutes ago, C T said:

Except for the little doubt about the soul, i am in agreement with the above. 

A few pages back I mentioned something about how compassion is weaved into the process of beings' evolution. 

Similar view. 

Yes, I was reading that..as LIT said, it feels you are coming from a 'meta level' when you are speaking of compassion and I hope to gain more insight into that.

The soul thing is from previous NDE's I've had and those I've studied and talked with people about... It's just a way I think of my being (referring to the 'little me' I still identify with primarily)..I just use the term 'soul' out of convienence.

7 minutes ago, Marblehead said:

I'm just having fun talking with people willing to speak "with" me.  But I do hope to inspire a person to think now and then.  You thought.  And then challenged me to a dual.  Hehehe.  I don't do those any more too slow in my old age.

 

Ok, I'll give you an advantage, you can use a more modern weapon

7 minutes ago, Marblehead said:

 

Haven't seen any or even know of the person.  Did he send love then send an M-15 round?

 

Pretty much! Also used love to divert a suicide bomber and to save his whole squad from attack on several occasions..

2 minutes ago, C T said:

some will say compassion is a type of action resulting from a feeling of deep empathy. 

this is ok - after all, its difficult to relate to concepts that one is not familiar with,

but i think compassion extends far beyond the limits of human understanding. 

To me, it is the very nature of existence itself.

Look around... its starkly evident - even weeds and grass have its nature. 

 

The assumption that one can 'do' compassion is quite a bold one, almost arrogant even;

In actuality, i think its the other way round. 

Compassion that arises without motive, without self-concern, is instinctual.

Just like a snail that withdraws into its shell when agitated, or you pulling a runaway child who stumbles onto a busy street. 

Its a reflex, but humans have a tendency to train themselves out of that reflexiveness. 

Some call this 'ignorance'. 

On some fundamental level, spiritual cultivation is a kind of process of getting familiar with it again. 

To reconnect with one's heart. Cliched, but hey, thats what it comes down to. 

Yeah, in this thread, this post really resonates with me. Thanks for sharing that

11 minutes ago, cold said:

 

What's love have to do with it? With compassion?

Nothing!

Nor does fear! Not true compassion.

 

Empathy may be modeled...

I don't know..it's beyond my current scope of understanding. To me, at this point in my understanding, things like love and compassion are related and fear, to me, is the opposite of love. 

5 minutes ago, cold said:

 

Excuse me but I think if I was a carpenter and you were a lady we might have very different reactions / ideas to the same stimuli.

And if we were both ladies and carpenters we would never be in the same place ... because we are unique individuals products of our nature and how we were nurtured. Reread Taomeow's remarks on empathy in this thread they are spot on!

 

Yes, I can't disagree with that - but I feel we can gain empathy to other peoples' outlooks. Taomeow has some deep things to say about compassion and empathy. In situations like this, I tend to look at things more from a soul's development throughout a number of lifetimes.. So, while a sociopath may never have compassion or empathy in this life, at some point in that soul's timeline, compassion and empathy will develop. Again, these insights are from my own personal mystical experiences so they might not jibe exactly with others' views.. but there is a whole 'school of belief' that thinks of things like this in this way. 

2 minutes ago, Marblehead said:

None of those, really.  And I'm not doing it with intention.  I enjoy seeing "cause and effect" in action.

 

It's funny because here I am writing in on a thread about compassion and, here on this thread, I am ready to challenge you to a duel.. Although, if we use those 'old-timey' weapons that they used to use in duels, we probably won't mess each other up too badly. 

Actually, you ever check out any Michael Jaco on youtube? Ex-Navy seal talks about sending love in combat situations...very, very cool!

2 minutes ago, TheCLounge said:

Many people who tell others to do good do it as a threat that they will "burn in hell" if they don't 

Exactly, exists in a good amount of religious teaching..Use of fear to inspire 'better' behavior..and, in many cases, leads to all kinds of really crazy, strange distortions.

Just now, Marblehead said:

"Might" be way biased?  Come on, give yourself more credit than that!

 

Ohhh man..Alright, I'll keep settin em up, and you keep driving em home. What am I to you? A Dean Martin to your Jerry Lewis? An Abbott to your Costello? An Ollie to your Stanley? 

5 minutes ago, TheCLounge said:

What I'm saying is that there are those who feel OBLIGATED to do things for others to the point that they become blind. They are doing out of ego and not awareness..

They could be doing it because of subconscious conditioning that says they SHOULD do what they feel is helpful in their own minds. Or could come from being indoctrinated in religious teachings. But, in the right circumstances, the initial motivation may not matter so much if the help given is from a wise place over time..Then that might transform the person so they are helping because it brings them joy, and they feel all the positive results they gain in their lives from doing so. That being said, I don't believe in motivating people out of fear.. but I'm just looking for positive aspects that may occur in less than positive situations.

4 minutes ago, Marblehead said:

 

You just did.

 

That option is for people who really like to hear themselves talk.

 

Hahaha!! Pretty good Marbleman..prettyyyy...prettyyyy....pretty good.. You know I still have that dueling glove!!

5 minutes ago, Marblehead said:

Okay.  I'll help:

 

  Hide contents

 

 

Haha..Still, he was no Frank! (Of course I'm coming from a jazz background so I might be way biased)

1 minute ago, cold said:

 

The sun rises on the good and the evil equally. (This realization is the beginning of awareness.)

 

A great healer worked very hard to teach me that every single being is doing the best they can with what they know at the time. That, were I in the other person's place I would do exactly what they did.

Even though every second it usually feels like I'm choosing, if I sit and meditate about it, I see I really don't have any choice...I'm am just a product of my conditioning and past experiences. But some people I discuss this idea with have said you can reach a point where you 'break out' of this 'mold'.. I guess when your conditioning and past experiences absolutely don't effect you any more..if that's even possible.

1 minute ago, TheCLounge said:

 

Acknowledge your true essence and that same essence will take care of everything for you. You will experience everything you need to experience.

 

Reminds me of something I was saying in the 'God thread' about surrender.. I think it's something a person needs to practice to be able to do it in more and more situations.

2 minutes ago, TheCLounge said:

The fact that you acknowledge the ills of the world around you proves that you have seen compassion..

Yeah, that's usually a step in the right direction

3 minutes ago, ljazztrumpet said:

Oh c'mon people, do I have to do all the work around here? C'mon guys, LET'S GET WITH THE PROGRAM HERE!!!

 

Ok, ok..Maybe I was a little harsh. After all, I am the jazz musician on this group.. Maybe it's my responsibility to paste things like that in these situations.

Hey, am I allowed to quote myself?? 

2 hours ago, cold said:

 

Filial responsibilities and duties are sadly legally mandated in some cases / states 

thelearner I know from your past posts that's not the case for you

No body can push a persons buttons better than ones parent, and spouse then sibling(s)

 

I don't share a lot of goals and values that are prevalent in America today.

My focus is on the quality of my relationships not quantity.

I find the world at large tiring and frustrating but have no problem getting along by go along my way.

 

As Frank Sinatra so aptly put it :

" And now, the end is near, .....

I did it my way."

 

Oh c'mon people, do I have to do all the work around here? C'mon guys, LET'S GET WITH THE PROGRAM HERE!!!

2 minutes ago, Lost in Translation said:

 

I sincerely want you to be right. 

I'll keep you posted dude!

1 minute ago, Lost in Translation said:

 

I would think it the other way around. Acting with limited human understanding is easy. Removing veils and fetters take work. Am I misunderstanding you?

My own experience is that there comes a point in your life (in whatever lifetime) where you have to remove veils and fetters.. You really have no choice. People might say, 'Well, you could just keep going on and suffering.' but I don't believe it is any human's desire to suffer, so that's not much of a choice. 

Speaking for myself and a couple of other people I've talked to about this process, it seems there comes a point where one sees actually how difficult it is to remove the veils and fetters - and then you really don't want to anymore.. but it's too late..the suffering is more than ever if you try to avoid it. Life literally forces you into it..over the course of lifetimes I believe. Yeah, kind of really sucks..unless I get to the point where I can fully heal myself and show others how to do the same..and all suffering falls away..Maybe then I'll think it's worth it!

4 minutes ago, C T said:

it is easier to remove the veils and fetters that hide one's compassionate heart than to act in the limited human understanding of what compassion is. Compassion is like the sun - the sun naturally emits warmth and light, it doesnt have to force itself to do so, nor does the question of whether the sun shines selectively or not even arise. It simply rests in its own nature, effortlessly. What is the nature of a true human being? 

Besides all the nondual concepts I'm sure most of us are familiar with, I would like to think the true nature of a human being is love - When the 'blocks'/fear are removed, then those behaviors that the few great spiritual healers talk about can shine through: love, compassion, humility, benevolence, service, kindness, etc. 

23 minutes ago, Fa Xin said:

In my experience, compassion happens on its own as a result of being aware of your own condition.

At first, I think there has to be a desire to be aware of your own condition - and, in working on that awareness, things like compassion arising on its own are bound to happen at some point.

3 minutes ago, TheCLounge said:

Could it be however that the negativity people impose on you be that YOU are reminding THEM what their issues are that they refuse to acknowledge?

 

I often realize that the things we accuse others of are often the very things we are guilty of

Yep, it's usually a 2-way street!

7 minutes ago, steve said:

 

 

Here is another perspective that can seem opposing but is related:

In the tradition I practice, we are taught that there are 3 types of practitioners.

Inferior practitioner - problems are seen as the fault of someone or something else, no responsibility is taken

Mediocre practitioner - problems are seen as partially my fault, shared responsibility

Superior practitioner - problems are seen as 100% my fault, total responsibility is taken

It means that the problems aren't related to previous lives or other people, it's all in you.

It can be a very useful and liberating approach but only if you are ready for it. 

If it does not sit well with you, leave it... 

 

Another tool that I find valuable is to look at others as a mirror for me.

This is related to the 3 categories above.

When I come into conflict, I can look at what that says about ME and be less concerned with what it says about them.

This is the path to becoming a superior practitioner.

This approach is painful until we learn to identify less with the "me" and all its various masques.

It takes a lot of honest introspection and is an assault on the ego.