Clear'Waters

Too much water will kill you, but without enough water you die. Too much sun can kill you, but without the sun life on earth wouldn't exist. Too much medicine creates more ailments, but not enough treatments would leave the problem unsolved.

(I wanted to start a thread with this type of format continuing)

Look up Yi and Nian.. I think this would help clarify...

get an in person teacher, where are you located?  imho chen is better, more vigorous, doesnt leave out the fajin like yang does.

Houston

I have recently become intrested in Tai Chi... I wanted to know where to start... Any suggestions? I heard yang style is good. Im trying to supplement my practice i am already doing...

Here is a copy and paste from a post I wrote about thoughts, emptiness and Atman.

Confusion arises because people make statements that thoughts, emotions and sensations are not us. They come and go but are not us. I know I have said that many times myself and in a way it is true but not really

The first stage most people are taught is the Witness/Mindfulness. That there is separation between us and our thoughts, that they are fleeting unless we cling to them just like you said.

In Dzogchen they use the term Rigpa and say that we are all those thoughts, sensations and emotions and call this movement.

It is all energy/light.

So first we get to the point of separation from our thoughts. It is like we can see them float on by, they no longer attach to us and we find freedom. With increased depth the thoughts become less and less and the silence grows from within. We feel the movement of the thoughts within the silence.

We know this because it is like the waves hitting the beach. We experience it like the waves coming in and then we are back to being lost in thoughts as the waves reside. Over time just like the tide the water gets deeper and deeper until we are that movement, until we are that silence.

Now outside of our thinking we also have this body. Within the body, when people start to work with energy practices/pranayama techniques they first will notice a little energy within them. Over time this energy increases in depth and people start to feel energy hitting upon obstructions and that is when it becomes ecstatic. With still more depth one will notice that there body is energy. That the body is no different than our thoughts which is energy/light.

So our thoughts, emotions, sensations and our body are all energy/light. Just like a cloud each has form but in truth it is empty. It's true nature just like light or as science has shown atoms to be is emptiness.

The belief in an Atman, a soul according to Buddhism is not possible because a soul is a "thing" that "exists". In Buddhism the true nature of all things is emptiness. Because of that there is no soul that is made up of things residing in some place.

So who or what are we then?

Often when people first experience the light they are blinded by it. It is bright and it is all they can see. With increased depth you start to notice that the light is made up of individual streams of light. In Buddhism these are called Mind Streams.

A post was made in a thread asking if all Buddhas are the same. I think this will help explain some things.

Do Buddha now all have different individual personalities? I was always taught that there is no difference between Buddha's and the only reason they have individual names is because we gave them different names to distinguish one Buddha manifestation from another, but to view them as different "Buddha's" is to create a duality in Enlightenment.

There are no differences between one Buddha and another in terms of realization; there are differences in terms of aspirations, and so on., which give rise to differences in sentient beings karmic connections with this buddhafield and that, and so on. In short, everyone who becomes a Buddha starts out as a sentient being, and there is a unique rosary of clarity that continues from the time of being a sentient being through the attainment of Vajradhara which forms the relative basis for Buddhahood.

Loppon Malcom

So we are each these mind streams that are made up of light that's true nature is emptiness. Each mind stream has unique karmic connections that the light hits upon that gives us our individuality.

I hope this helps,

Tom

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Sorry, I had to re-read this.. I would also like to thank you for posting it

I was overwhelmed in previously blocked energy when I released the sense of guilt and pressure to 'rigidly practice', or the constant nagging, doubting sense that I wasn't able to do enough because of the demands of family life.  What rubbish!  Life is practice.  Dishes, laundry, my son's homework, building towering scenery, showers, sitting in traffic... awareness, presence and breath are not precluded in any of it.

 

With the realization that my practice is not strict, it's not limited to my cushion time, or to when I'm 'waving my hands in the air', awareness of breath into each action and interaction with energy in all that transpires opened up realization that there is breath and awareness always, no matter what my surrounding conditions, I am always this fluid connection, this viable presence.  Even when I'm not 'aware' of it.  This process is ongoing.

 

It's all cumulative.  Nothing is wasted.  Nothing is lost, it's all grist for the mill. 

We cannot be stained, withered, or broken. 

 

Your intention shines mate.  You're doing fine.

Thank you.. I guess it is like my inhaling/ exhaling in 'practice'.. The more I consider it boundries between them, the more rough and seperated they are

I have some tiny side practices I do sometimes.  In the shower there's a chant/canticle (Rawn Clarks YHVH).  In the washroom (when I'm good) I'll do the Glenn Morris Secret Smile quickly.   Late night washroom, I'll stick around a bit and do some of Max Christenson's Kunlun.   Driving I'll do isometrics using the steering wheel, but thats not really meditation.  When I wake up, I'll do Wim Hof breathing or listen to a hypnotic script.

 

To the question of clashes between.  I had a pretty hot and heavy relation.  She had an important party planned, I had Aikido, I chose the class over her, and after that the relation went south.  I probably should have picked the girl over stellar attendance.  Seminars and classes though important are probably less so then family and won't keep you warm at night like a girl friends. 

Yeah i can agree with that aspect

I found waking at 3:30 am and meditating for an hour or more did not disturb anyone.

1 hour at that time and you can go back to sleep and you will need 1 hour less sleep, be more rested and practically float up from bed.

 

If you have babies - take over putting them to sleep - for the time you need to stay by them while they settle, you can meditate.

So you may put them down at 8:00 and meditate until 9:00. If they need you  - no problem - just get up and comfort them.

If you want you can continue meditating for several hours.

 

I do Qi Gong 6 - 7 days a week and my family knows that if its someones birthday - i will still go to practice - anniversary (still practice) pretty much everything but a funeral and a wedding plays second fiddle. They simply do not schedule things that require my participation during my practice.

Do you set an alarm, or what?

How do other beings in nature balance daily life with practice?

For them they are one and the same.

 

Perhaps it is simpler because they just do, without contemplating emotions or justifying decisions or making plans.

Yeah, maybe its because im making a distinction between the two

It´s great to have big expanses of time to devote to nothing but practice.  Oh, to be a monk!  But even monks have kitchen duty.  So here´s what you might do.  Instead of feeling irked because your domestic life is clashing with your practice, find ways of integrating practice into that normal life.  If you have to do the dishes, do so mindfully.  Feel the warm suds on your forearms, be aware of the movement of your arm sd you place plates in the drying rack.  In other words: be in the present moment.

 

This works better if your practice centers on awareness and mindfulness, but even martial artists and alchemists can benefit from a little focused attention.  

 

If you look for them, opportunities for practice are everywhere.  Not everything has to be sitting on your zafu for an uninterrupted hour.  Practice "standing" while waiting in line at the post office.  Practice "inner smile" while stopped in traffic.  

 

Normal domestic life is where our practice gets tested.  It´s when we find out if our efforts during periods of formal practice are leading to more harmonious relationships with others, an ability to navigate through the challenges of work and love with greater ease.  Practice is homework to get us ready for the pop quiz of domestic life.

That makes sense, thank you

Depends on what your teacher says.

 

For instance, I've been told to place life duties and responsibilities above spiritual practice. So if I'm working a lot, it's okay that I'm not able to meditate for 2 hours a day, or to meditate at the specified time. The energy is going elsewhere for the time being, and it's going to important things.

 

However, no matter what your teacher says, it's all up to you. If you want to practice more, then create a lifestyle that can accommodate that. For instance, lets say your job is making you do overtime every week, and your neighbors are noisy when you get home, so you're simply irked when practicing and are getting bad results...

 

...put in the extra effort to get a job that has a basic 40 hour work week and never more than that, and move to a new location that's quiet. Then you can have that time to practice undisturbed. Just one example.

 

Also, you can have a wild domestic life...but simply take a drive to a park that no one goes to and practice there in the quiet. Spend 10 minutes there...that's doable for most busy people. We either make time for practice, or we make excuses for why we're not practicing.

Thank you

When practice and normal domestic life clashes, what is one suppose to do? I have been trying to evade this situation, but it seems like it countinues to be unresolved as a result. Any advice?

Qi follows yi. Yi, however, is not everything in the mind; it is a particular feature of mind. To this end, yi is only a director for a finite quantity of qi; not  a modulator for the entire system. Shen might be a substance of mind (it also might not, as there are variations in opinion on this matter) in any case, you're still dealing with the configuration of a very small set of mental resources without any real means of expanding the changes to the total system of the energy body.

 

In this way, you're not really stabilizing anything except a small range of symbols/mental-objects that you're choosing to pay attention to. The issue is to get beyond the symbols and to work directly with the "stuff" within which the symbols inhere.

 

So really, and in practical terms, if one's qi is turbid, one usually adjusts breathing because this is the most simple form of qigong and it is mentioned in many daoist texts that mind follows breath.

 

(sorry, that last paragraph was a little snippy because I get irked when people cite written works in a way that covers over direct, experientially-derived information and, also, that's an oversimplification of shen; it's not just in the main stuff of the conscious mind---it, also, is distributed in the body)

Its ok.. I understand. I was only giving a minor method that works for me when I am in public.. I see your point of view though...

Well, since you only have 23 posts, I took the liberty to look over all of them. It appears that you haven't mentioned any particular qigong practices that you are involved in. I will guess that it is because you are not doing any.

 

Even though I think that the mind is a powerful thing, I think that "metacognition" won't be helpful. There are a handful of reasons for this. One is that the contents of the mind have very fine and not-always-perceivable triggers; engaging in any type of linguistic mode of self-relating in your mind will virtually always miss these triggers.

 

The next feature is one which is a fortiori more relevant. Mind, as you experience it, is the byproduct of energy states. In general, the experience of mind is blurred for a lot of people. There are different things with different levels of resolution and, usually, they get strewn together and given variable emphasis while they are mushed together. I wanted to get a diagram so it could be easier to understand but I haven't found a good one yet. Anyways, the level of linguistic expression in mind is very superficial and doesn't engage with the things that are actually responsible for your mental state.

 

So, above and beyond "metacognition", I would advocate qigong. If your mind is disturbed, it is because your energy is disturbed. Even though mind-based things like meditation and different patterns of thinking can influence energy, it is very weak by comparison (at least, in the beginning). It is like trying to re-orient a sailboat by just saying words. Unless you're very windy in your speech, it will be easier to just adjust the sails.

 

To this end, I simply advocate qigong. There are a number of free ones on youtube which could be of benefit but, in general, you get what you pay for.

 

 

Edit: maybe I should have re-read your post. Reading it again, I can feel more of your mental state than before. If you can understand this, there are different levels to work with. You are still contrasting ideas. The entanglement of energy with ideas can allow your methods to work for a number of things. My advice, though, would be to clear the mind to the point where energy and idea are almost completely separate. if you can do that, then my post will probably make more sense (as you should have the clarity to perceive the negative image of the objects/reference points that are present but not mentioned in the post).

In many daoist texts, they refer to the 'shen' as mind or spirit, which in turn is followed by qi. So really, if ones qi is turbid one should first calm the mind and the qi will follow its calmness.

immaculate 

I'm not too expert-y on meditation, just beginning not to long ago myself but i know that when my mind is clouded in mediation, i automatically follow the thoughts subconsciously and such things only allow more thoughts to accumulate. Instead i try to acknowledge the thought, that it is there, but instead of necessarily thinking of it, i let it flow. Also focusing too much on letting go is a distraction, after a while, maybe hours, days, weeks, months, etc.. i guess its different for everybody, there will be a desire for clarity. Follow this naturally without obstruction... I hope this helps...

These are the virtues you believe are important to you. I'm not asking you to justify them, but I can prove they are flawed as primary virtues and in 'humility' there is a virtue that belongs nowhere. Let's not be without kindness, empathy and caring....I'm not chucking out the baby with the bath water here, those things are good, but, if you think about it, these virtues first require judgement otherwise you will give your allegiance to a tyrant, your knife to a murderer, your credit card to a thief and your children delivered into the care of a child molester. Somebody, surely must first 'merit' your kindness and empathy and therefore they must 'deserve' and that is a judgement and therefore justice must be a primary virtue. You cannot even begin to give anything unless you provide value and that requires productivity. If you are entirely dependent on other men and not your own efforts then your 'kindness' is actually their kindness. If you are not honest, then you are promising values that you have no right to. It's very easy for someone to be caring if you don't earn your way honestly.

I can agree with you to a certain extent. i understand your point of view behind this statement. You wouldn't buy a knife for someone who claims they need defense if they are already holding a gun.

To gain power without equal measures of virtue makes a person wobble.   Maybe this isn't Taoism, but imo without gains in kindness, humility, empathy, caring of community and humanity.. personal power corrupts, the ego blows up and unnecessary tragedy follows.  

 

Listening to wisdom, dharma speeches, of my elders and seniors is as important a practice as any meditative art.

I agree. It is like the Midas touch, where King Midas gains the ability to turn things into gold, and ends up turning everything into gold and being able to enjoy his 'riches'. Without a sensor or what is considered morally right or wrong, power will inevitably corrupt. 

 who wants to become immortal must gain 30 points of merit. It is said that someone who gathers 3,000 points of merit becomes inimortal in a day. According to the chapter “Merits and Demerits” of the ^Jiiyan zong: Doing good lengthens life whereas doing evil shortens it. Deities metes out recompense or punishment unerringly.

I have heard this in a book. It talks about the level of virtue i guess. It says how if a practitioner moves to a mountain to cultivate, it would generally take them longer to reach a higher state of immortality (not saying that they wont reach heavenly immortality themselves). Also it says how a person who sacrifices (im guessing with true instantaneous compassion) or heals/helps people would transcend into the greater ranks.

 

In plain words - the intent to grow "virtuously" is helpful and a general requirement of sorts for practice to begin and continue.

But what is "virtuous"? In the sense of practice it is: to grow in refinement without attachment to the growth. This is nearly perfectly said and at the same time completely open to misinterpretation - so it is put into the couch of relative moral concepts and lost in behavioral prescriptions.

 

I completely agree with your interpretation. Maybe lots of time me misinterpret the true essence of things from general backwardness. Maybe because we make it what we want it to be, than what it is intended to be?

Dao De Jing:  

 

The Sacred Book of the Way, transmission by Flowing Hands:

 

CHAPTER 21

 

The greatest virtue is to follow the Dao and only Dao.

Oh unfathomable Dao, ever elusive and intangible.

But yet within, there is substance and form.

It is the essence of the Ten Thousand Things.

This is very real, so here lies a true path to follow.

It was there at the beginning, as it shall be at the end, Thus I know the ways of creation.

Do you consider following the Dao is like living in the present tense?

What i mean is although we can perceive our lives as a cycle and it might be as well, that we understand the concept of the present is like water. Regardless of obstruction that we individually experience in life, the present keeps on flowing, and in such manner the beginning and end as well would be like water?

I appreciate everyone who commented on this thread to help me further understand what significance virtue and merits have.. Thank you...

so like, instead of thinking we think about thinking and see what those thoughts make us do and find the thoughts that are right for us to get the right results?

Kind of.. Its like taking yourself out the situation without any emotional or opinionated biased to evaluate it a different way in the present tense. 

The following is a cut/paste from another member:

 

 

 

Clear'Waters asks an excellent question which necessitates a very specific answer that is not found yet on the interwebs.

 

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In Taoism the Emptiness creates 1 which then creates 2 and 3 which then creates the whole universe, as referred to in the previous response: Emptiness as the "mother of the Ten Thousand Things." This is from the Tao Te Ching.

 

In fact that teaching is from music theory and so to say Emptiness equals form in Taoism has the specific meaning of the Tai Chi as the form of 1:2:3:4 which is also the Pythagorean Tetrad from music theory - the Octave, Perfect Fifth and Perfect Fourth.

 

The secret of the Emptiness is then the secret of "one hand clapping" as the Ch'an Koan is called - or what in Buddhism is called the "inner sound method." This secret form is then based on the complementary opposites of the Tai Chi. You can study the alchemy books Taoist Yoga: Alchemy and Immortality for details and also the Hui Ming Ching, the source book for the first one. Also Wang Mu's Foundation of Internal Alchemy.

 

The teacher I studied with - a Shaolin trained alchemist qigong master teaches "the simplest is the most powerful" and how the 1 from the Tao te ching is the consciousness that goes into the Emptiness (the Wu Chi) which then creates the yin/yang 2:3 energy of the Tai Chi. The consciousness is our spirit light as visualization.

 

The Taoist Yoga: Alchemy and Immortality book states very clearly that only the "absolute void" enables a person to see light outside their body - the light "radiates" whereas the internal light that we see with our eyes closed is not the real Emptiness, rather it is limited to the body qi or "yin qi" or psychic lunar energy.

 

So going back to music theory the form 1:2:3:4 that is the emptiness means that yin and yang change their value based on the order of resonance as a spacetime vortex (the emptiness). In music theory frequency is 1:2 and 2:3 and 3:4 as subharmonics and then time is the inversion. So we learn music theory as a wavelength but what is covered up is that the geometry of space is noncommutative or "complementary opposites."

 

Buddhism is based on Vedic logic which is a phonetic based language of dualistic symmetric math that still covers up this Taoist and Pythagorean secret of complementary opposites. The "three gunas" of India - the oldest philosophy of India - tamas, raja, and sattva, also originate from the music complementary opposites of the octave, perfect fifth and perfect fourth. So this older music theory truth of yoga training in India is from the "three gunas." All human cultures use this octave, perfect fifth and perfect fourth natural harmonics as the basis of spiritual trance harmonics - even babies cry in these simple number frequencies as being most consonant.

 

So in the West based out of Vedic logic this secret was covered up by the simple fact that 2 as a number does not go into 3 and so the Perfect Fifth harmonic ratio does not go into the octave. Anyone learning basic music theory learns that the Perfect Fifth plus the Perfect fourth equals the octave but this is a lie that covers up the Tai Chi form as the Emptiness! Why is it a lie? Because in order to "add" the Perfect Fifth and Perfect Fourth you actually "multiply" as a logarithm assuming a commutative or symmetric mathematical logic! This means to subtract the Perfect Fourth (yin) from the Perfect Fifth (yang) you then divide and the result is 9/8. This can only work by using the harmonics over the 1 value - ignoring the subharmonics of 2/3 and 3/4.

 

So let's convert the yin and yang to geometry - 2/3 as subharmonic is C to F or yin and 3/2 as harmonic is C to G as yang. Both are a perfect fifth energy! In fact this is the secret of alchemy - to resonate your yin energy as a complementary opposite into yang energy! But again this empirical truth is covered up by the dualistic symmetric logic of the West starting out of Brahmin Vedic logic. So then 2/3 is not allowed because it can not be converted into commutative symmetric logic and so 2/3 as yin is "doubled" to 4/3 so that it is no longer a Perfect Fifth subharmonic and instead is a Perfect Fourth overtone harmonic.

 

Do you see what just happened here? The "one" value that creates the octave was changed! The "one" was changed to the "two" doubled to 4 as the numerator. So with the harmonic series you can not use 4/3 as an overtone harmonic since 3 is the denominator and 3 is not an octave "same note" multiple of the one. You can have 2/1 as the octave of one or 1/2 and 3/2 as the yang Perfect Fifth but not 4/3. So this is called the "phantom tonic" in Western music theory - the Perfect Fourth can not be "created" from the One - why? Because the whole point of Western music theory, which is the foundation of Western symmetric logic, is to "contain" the Emptiness into a material geometry.

 

So then what happens when we change the "one" to the means of doubling the subharmonic as the new "phantom tonic" so that the 2 is now the numerator as 4/3? Again we get the Perfect Fifth as 3/2 x the Perfect Fourth as 4/3 = the Octave as 2/1. This would appear to be a balanced harmony of yin and yang and Emptiness - but again this covers up the real mystery of the Emptiness and instead converts it into a commutative or symmetric logic. So as I stated the difference between them is 9/8 by dividing them as a logarithm and so 9/8 is the major 2nd interval or "whole step" of the scale - the goal of this scale is to "compromise" the empirical truth of the infinite Yang as 3/2 - the infinite spiral of fifths. So then 9/8 as six whole tones has a value which is slightly over the value of the octave! They do not line up! 9/8 cubed then approximates the square root of two. This is the secret cover up of the truth of how form is Emptiness. The Emptiness is turned into a "divide and average" symmetric logic that is from Vedic Brahmin cipher symmetric geometry logic.

 

 

 

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O.K. so what do we have if we remain true to the empirical reality of the "infinite spiral of fifths" or the "true yang" secret of alchemy? As I stated the subharmonic is 2/3 as yin or C to F geometry and the overtone harmonic is 3/2 as yang or the Perfect Fifth C to G. It's the same C as the root tonic - no need to "change" the tonic by doubling 2/3 to 4/3. Instead we embrace the fact that with the same C as the 1 we have different geometric values based on the direction of the spacetime. This is called noncommutative geometry - or asymmetric complementary opposites of the Tai Chi. This is the real secret of music theory - the perfect fifth can never be the same value divided equally into the octave and yet they harmonically resonate as complementary opposites infinitely as the Emptiness. There is no commutative logarithmic value to infinity as a materialistic containment or Perfect Fifth plus Perfect Fourth equals Octave based on wavelength. There is instead a harmony based on time-frequency energy. Everything is energy - even in the Emptiness. This is called the "yuan qi" as the formless source of the Universe.

 

 

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This secret was rediscovered by Louis de Broglie in quantum physics where energy is also based on time-frequency inverse proportions from Pythagorean philosophy, the foundation of Western science. What de Broglie discovered is that for Einstein as matter goes towards the speed of light then the frequency energy increases but also the time was wavelength increases and this violates the Law of Pythagoras - the original complementary opposites of time and frequency. So de Broglie discovered that frequency is to time as momentum (mass x velocity) is to wavelength. This also meant that there has to be a "pilot wave" that comes from the future and so is "faster than light" or superluminal and it harmonizes in phase with the matter going slower than the speed of light. This is called the Law of Phase Harmony by Louis de Broglie and it is being confirmed now that in fact quantum entanglement is the foundation of 3D spacetime.

 

 

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So this explains how precognition happens by doing the Taoist alchemy training based on the secret of the Tai Chi form equaling the Emptiness and also how when the energy is strongest as light frequency then the time is the shortest.

 

Again for the actual practice as per the body-mind meridians you need to study the Taoist alchemy texts I referred to which also are inspired by the Emptiness of Buddhism as well. But the thing is that Buddhism was a reform to Brahmin religion and so as Buddhism spread into China it adapted to Taoism and hence the syncretic overlap. As I've stated there is an older tradition of India of the "three gunas" that is also based on the actual music empirical truth of complementary opposites as the Tai Chi.

I have to write this down

im not sure what these questions are supposed to abstain you from but i approve of the questions that i do understand

Its not necessarily the questions, but the certain thought process that one uses. It like changing yourself from first person to third in a sense.