thaddeus

So I'm told this Thursday is the worst day of the year in the Kabbalah tradition, actually the timing (on the East coast where I presently find myself) is from 8 pm today till 9 pm Thursday. I checked the Chinese San Niang days and, no, it doesn't coincide with any. I know very little about Kabbalah beyond generalities, so I don't know why this day is designated as a dark day -- supposedly the powers of good have no power during this time and whatever good you attempt to do turns over to the evil side. Has anyone heard anything about it? Any explanations? corroborations or refutations?

 

If someone can respond before 8 pm tonight, I'd appreciate it.

google Tisha b'Av

I don't think it's strictly a kabbalah thing.

T

I've read estimates that placebo effect could be upwards of 30% and more in an experiment. Placebo here meaning actual placebo plus all the other factors that could result in a positive outcome. Suppose 1 million people practice some bogus qigong healing exercise...that means you could have 350,000 people going on about how great the system is and how it healed this or that.

Hmmmm...

T

Very interesting topic!

I was confused by this placebo vs qigong for while but now I can certainly tell you they are 2 seperate things. Both have healing power, no one can deny that. The only different thing is how they work. Placebo works with pure faith. You will get what you believe in. And the effect also varies. Sometimes, it can be large but also very insignificant sometimes (that's why researchers don't know how exactly it works). On the other hand, the healing power of qigong is created with constant practice (and a little faith of course). The effect is the same every time, you can expect such thing. The more you go on with your practice, the more its power be enhanced. And one more thing is (just my personal thought though) qi sensation. Occasionally, during a rest or when I'm relaxed, I suddenly feel warm, light, some of my muscles twitching, etc... Those feelings don't seem to have anything to do with faith/belief I guess.

 

P.S Has someone ever experienced such a thing like me?

I hate to confuse you more but..consider this. Let's assume qigong is real. Now, someone sets up an experiment to test a new qigong that relies on a special breathing technique plus a special arm movement. To test this, he breaks up a thousand people into four different groups of 250 people each--1 learns the arm movement only, 1 learns the breathing technique only, 1 learns the arm movement and the breathing technique, and the last group is simply observed for 1 year. If the people that only learn the arm movement or just the breathing technique report benefits, that is considered placebo effect. So, how do you know your qigong experiences are not "placebo"?

How do you know you learned correctly and are not fooling yourself? Everyone who is under the placebo effect believes it's 'real'.

T

You know the person who came up with the Chaos theory also said that Chaos only appears chaotic upon initial view, but if one looks deeper, there is a pattern that emerges, even if deeply complex.

 

This modern usage of the term Chaos to suggest complete disorder is a mis-use of the term as it was intended upon it's creation. There are still causes and conditions surrounding the creation of what the term describes as certain aspects of the universal workings.

Hi Vajrahridaya,

Of course everything has a cause. The problem is identifying what is that cause. Take the babies born with a genetic disorder. The cause was whatever caused the 'random' change in the genes. This could be something external, something natural, etc. Of course 'something' caused it. The challenge lies in determining what caused it. I think you may be using a belief system to explain what caused it, namely karma in the context of buddhism (I may be wrong on that, there were alot of threads to go through). A scientist will look for something verifiable that caused the genetic variation. I agree people say 'random' when they don't know the cause. Once the cause is identified, then it's no longer random.

I think this is all elementary and doesn't really need to be argued. I just want to point out that you might be using circular reasoning to justify your point of view. I think Pietro made some excellent points in his last post about making statements.

I quoted the above because I just wanted to say again, I learned alot from reading 'Fooled by Radomness'. One thing I learned was that randomness means there may be patterns. A good example from the book is to imagine someone throwing darts at a square. Naturally you will find little holes on the square from the darts. These holes will naturally cluster and form patterns. Now superimpose a map of the US on that square and look at how people will look at these clusters and start believing the clusters represent something happening in that area like an epidemic or cancer statistics etc.

T

 

So, I think these ideas of moral cause and effect are way too simple. The universe doesn't follow our rules. I truly believe it is random chance, and chaos.

Yes!

I know this is a completely unpopular point of view here, but why is this idea so hard to accept.

T

I'm about to read another book that sounds interesting that would relate to research studies.

 

It's called The Cult of Statistical Significance: How the Standard Error Costs Us Jobs, Justice, and Lives

Let me know what you think of that book and if it's worth reading!

Thanks,

T

Here's the study, it was published in 2002:

http://www.vaccinationnews.com/dailynews/j...urgerysham9.htm

"After they recovered from the procedures, most patients said their knee pain had improved, and they continued to say they were better for the two years that the researchers followed their progress. But Dr. Nelda P. Wray, who is chief of the section of health services research at Baylor, said, "On the objective scale, no one was better at any time point.""

I think it's a stretch to say the patients who got the sham operation were 'healed'. I think the point of the study was to show that the surgery was ineffective.

And yes, the participants agreed to have fake surgery.

T

Yes, I've heard this story and similar ones before. Some quick thoughts that come to mind..is this story/myth actually true..we have to consider the ethical issues with performing sham operations and consider how this ever got approved as an actual study with controls, etc. I'm glad you read Taleb and understand what I'm trying to say, Black Swan and Fooled By Randomness are very similar. I think FBR reallly drives the point home regarding randomness. In the study you mentioned, it really needs to be done a few more times to determine it wasn't just a fluke result. Otherwse we are 'fooled by randomness'. I'm sure there are hundreds of thousands of examples of operations done incorrectly that produced no such miraculous result, or worse, but they are not making headlines anywhere. Because we often just look at and discuss these unusual results, we often make the mistake of not seeing the larger picture which in this case are the thousands of people who don't get better from wrong operations. Any scientist worth her salt wouldn't make a big deal out of something like this, I think the sensationalism is caused by journalists looking for a story or people pushing an agenda.

Causality is a huge topic. How do we know something happened as a result of something. These are great questions and I'm happy you started this thread.

T

Because of certain questions I've been ruminating on I am beginning to wonder if the Placebo Effect is actually Chi Healing or other energy healing work in disguise? If it is then in a way Western research has already shown it exists - so much so all valid research studies must be designed to take placebo into account. And from what I can tell researchers haven't been able to explain placebo.

 

I'm still unsure about this though. Placebo might have absolutely nothing to do with chi or energy bodies, etc.

Check out this book when you have some time:

Fooled by Randomness: http://www.amazon.com/Fooled-Randomness-Hi...6277&sr=8-4

The problem with placebo effect is that it is difficult to determine what exactly was due to placebo. Say you are testing a drug that grows hair. So you have 30 people in the study. 20 grew hair and 10 didn't. When you analyze the result, you find out that of the 20 that grew hair, 5 didn't really get the drug, they got an inert substance. It's tempting to say all 5 grew hair from the placebo effect, but you just can't. They could have grown hair for a bunch of reasons completely unrelated to the study. When you read results of these scientfic studies, you will find that placebo is the term used to describe those people that saw a result from the inert substance. Logically, you can't assume it was really from placebo effect. I picked a hair loss example, because that's exactly what you'll find if you look at the studies on Rogaine.

To throw more complications in, say in the above study, it's tempting to say the 15 people grew hair as a result of the drug. You really can't until you repeat the study several times to rule out a Random result from the one study. That's why the book I'm suggesting above is a great read, it explains this much better than I can.

T

from a TCM perspective is there any natural way to build up your kidneys? also, is there anything specifically that weakens or drains them?

The book scholar warrior has some recipes to build kidneys. Chinese believe, dark foods like black sesame and black beans will build up kidneys. Eating kidneys like pork kidney is supposed to be good as well.

Lamb is reputed to be a jing builder.

You can take herbal recipes like 'sho wu ji'.

Rubbing and gently tapping the kidney area is supposed to help (don't over do).

One explanation of why taiji builds kidney and liver strength is because the movement from the waist and legs stimulate those meridians with the twisting.

Sleep alot but not too much.

T

google chen zhenglei dvds. He has the best teaching dvds for authentic and traditional chen style taiji that I've seen. He's got everything, lao jia, er lu, sword, guando etc. You can't go wrong with his stuff because it's one of the most popular. he breaks everything down step by step.

Ah, very interesting guys. My idea of generating power from pushing down inevitably stemmed from me finding the ground again. In that, I have some tension in the abdominal/back region and in discovering a better connection with the ground by pushing down, I was able to practice a swaying-hands exercise more pleasurably. I will focus more on the waist region and see what I experience.

 

Thanks!

try this idea..not *pushing* down but releasing..constant and refined release of tension from top down.

T

how about this..

it can be summed up by 'not doing'.

e.g. if you try to do 'sinking' or 'centering' etc. chances are you are doing something incorrectly.

EDIT: Its also magical how fast egos disappear when you take it to the mats all the time. A lot of taijiquan guys dont know how bad they are and think that practicing the form is just going to magically make them a killing machine... and they act like it.

Yes! On a related note, I feel aikido can be improved with better randori.

T

Hmm,sure you know what brazilian jiu jutsu is?

The whole idea behind bjj is to use technique to overecome a bigger stronger opponent.Thats why bjj has been so effective in mma.Tai chi is a standing practice while bjj is mostly on the ground.You certainly have no idea at all what you are talking about.

Doesn't every martial art claim to be able to overcome bigger/stronger/faster opponents? That's the limitation of a technique based perspective. When two opponents know the same techniques, the stronger/faster will prevail. Taichi is beyond technique. Think of it as an abstraction of principles and strategies that can make your BJJ skill higher. For example, if you have two BJJ fighters who know the same techniques, the one that can flow better (meaning relax/yield/listen) can prevail, not the stronger one.

I'm not interested in fighting about this, if you want to have a decent discussion about this i'll continue, if you want to attack me personally for trying to contribute to the thread then i'm done commenting on this stuff.

T

Hmm,sure you know what brazilian jiu jutsu is?

The whole idea behind bjj is to use technique to overecome a bigger stronger opponent.Thats why bjj has been so effective in mma.Tai chi is a standing practice while bjj is mostly on the ground.You certainly have no idea at all what you are talking about.

Why don't you read what i wrote more carefully.

T

eat right for your blood type has alot to stay about who does better on meat and who does better vegetarian..I think type O is for meat and A is for veggies..B is for both..but dont' quote me..either way it's worth a look.

however, it's all about survival of the fittest, and I believe meat eaters would dominate all the vegeterians. maybe it's just me, but it's tough to find a robustly healthy vegetarian. don't go nuts with examples of olympic athletes or famous fighters who are vegetarian, i'm just saying..that's all.

T

hey bums,

 

to tell you the truth, I haven't even begun studying tai chi full on, just very basic basics. but I was also interested in learning something a bit more straightforward like brazilian jiu jitsu. any experienced martial artists who might have any thoughts into how this combination might work?

 

cheerio.

You can try thinking of it this way..First you have a martial art principle, from the principle you derive strategies, from the strategy you derive your applications and techniques. The main principle of taichi is returning to balance or wuji. The main strategy is 'no force' or 'not doing'. The applications and techniques are endless. To learn proper taichi, you should be learning it's principles and strategies. To only focus on the applications is missing the main point of this art and will leave you with a limited view of taichi..e.g. taichi is only throws or locks or strikes or limited in some way. Brazilian jujitsu can be one interpretation or application of taichi principles. You can do BJJ with brute force and overcome weaker opponents. I think this is basically low level skill and only focuses on the external strategies that only work because you are bigger, faster, stronger. A deep study of taichi can help you do the BJJ techniques with a higher level of skill and overcome bigger faster opponents.

But this is all academic unless you can find a teacher who will show you this stuff.

T

I was about to ask a question about what you think of this book I just bought, but i'm going to read it with undiluted perspective and see for myself.

 

on another note, what's the fastest way to stretch my hamstrings to where I can touch my toes?

 

for now, i'm just going to keep trying to touch my toes.

try a rolfing session

take magnesium

try a low carb diet/eliminate food allergy

heat your body up by steam/sauna

you'll be there in no time..

Li Jiong,

In your courses do you explain stretching the tendons during standing practice, or anything similar to muscle/tendon changing practice?

I would be interested in learning more about that.

Thanks,

T

Hi and welcome back

Still practicing Chen style?

thanks..actually i've taken a break from all this stuff. i'm in reductionist mode now..

T

I know a bone marrow washing practice that has similar principles as isometrics. Only you flex from 30 min to an hour, continuously. Clears bones, blood, rejuvenates teeth, brain, etc, assuming you pass possible clearing stages of blood coming out of your orifices and other exciting things.

 

Ohhh, and you can take a baseball bat in the ribs after 1 month of doing this.

Hi Smile, can you say where you learned this? Was it in NYC?

Thanks,

T

Interesting ideas! Thanks..

T

Cloud, re. tests like MRI, the question that should be asked is, would the test results give you any more information that would change your therapeutic strategy? In other words, if you knew you had a small tear instead of just an inflammatory situation, would you do anything differently? And if not, why expose yourself to high doses of magnetic fields?

Hey Karen, you're right about the treatment strategy..but only for the first 4-6 weeks. The problem arises when or if the anti-inflammatories and physical therapy don't work. Then, I think you want to know what

you're dealing with and how extensive it is.

Prolotherapy looks interesting. Do you know anything about it?

T

Are their any dietary modifications or herbal supplements that would assist in the alleiviation of an inflamed rotator cuff ?

 

Currently receiving Bowen therapy & using hot & cold compress alternation . Not taking any anti-inflammatories or other medications ( Bowen therapist discouraged it ) .

hey cloud, did you get an MRI to confirm the inflammation? Could you have a partial tear? Make sure you start physical therapy as soon as possible to build strength back.

I think the systemic enzymes hold promise, but don't really know for sure.

Good luck.

T