ViscountValmont

I would just like to start an archive of everyone's favorite sayings and so forth, as well as accompanying discussions and interpretations of them, how the lessons are applied to life, and why they're particularly your favorites. I apologize if there is already such a thread, and this may be merged with it, if so.

One of my favorites is this story by Lieh Tzu-

On the way to Song, Yang meets a man at the town of Ni. The man has two wives, one is very attractive and the other one is quite plain. But the man favors the not so attractive one.

So Yang asks him why. The man answers:"The pretty one knows she is pretty. I don't. The plain one knows she is plain. I don't. A bad person knows he is bad. I don't."

Yang says:"I will remember what you just said. The Saint behaves as a Saint, by his own volition."

How does everyone see this?

I also very much like the painting, The Vinegar Tasters. It perfectly shows how Tao's approach is starkly different to the other school's of thought.

Wow, my chart is scary close to Cayce's (Tropical). My inner planets, Sun, Moon, Mercury and Mars all the same. Only Ascendant and Venus are different- Libra and Aquarius, respectively.

Edit: Also, my outer planets may also be coincidentally the same as well, but I don't recall their placement.

Describing enlightenment to someone who is not... is an idea to them. Which is why they must dispense with words to experience it. But, no one lives outside of words, and especially an experience so profound WILL be described to others. I already explained that an awakening is a reinterpretation of your subjective world (and before you bog all of us down with a bunch of New Age terminology designed to avoid defining what something actually is... yes, this is what enlightenment actually is- reinterpretation of your worldview. It isn't mystical, as much as you all want it to be). You guys need to read and connect more deeply. Telepathy is a big deal, because you're on a Forum, using text based words to communicate. If you could communicate telepathically, you would. Case closed.

I honestly like horse stance better - this stance seems to minimize the usage of the psoas muscle....whereas horse stance, its all about it

 

why the bend in the upper thoracic?

 

 

 

 

 

 

An increase in the diameter of a muscle fiber is not an increase in the number of muscle fibers. Think about what you're saying - muscles just "add new fibers" and that's how they grow? *facepalm*

JoeBlast,

It's a matter of wording, my god. Are you all really like this? No one said that growing muscle adds ENTIRE CABLES OF FIBER. Muscle growth occurs when tearing results, which is then filled in with chains of protein, increasing the size of the muscle fiber. Now, in densifying these fibers, you are NOT increasing the diameter!!! In fact it is DECREASING IT, as evidenced by the OP!

So, what's your counter-theory to this?

David,

Yes I have spent PLENTY of time around body builders. I have trained them, and trained with them in martial arts. How is it so hard to see my meaning here? They train for LOOKS. Clearly this has an effect of their overall strength. No one said they have NO strength. I have muscle strength! Christ! But the difference in the TRAINING is either a more attractive muscle which is stronger by proxy, or a STRONGER muscle which is its main focus. The purpose of these classifications of different muscles is because the muscles of the body ADAPT to what you're doing!!! So if you're not pushing the muscles for strength, rather than just an increase in size, then the muscle conforms to this! Yes, SOME strength results from body building. But I would choose my own Internal Strength over theirs any day. And as I've stated before... I'm 150 lbs.

Is it funny because you apparently don't understand it? I'm going to go with yes... As increase in fibers is EXACTLY what muscle growth is. You may want to know what the fuck you're talking about before you laugh at something.

Superficial strength refers to the fact that, though the muscle appears to be much stronger as per it visually looking better, it doesn't actually gain much strength overall as compared to the yield of other specifically targeted strength training exercises. This is why body builders aren't pulling semi-trucks.

*Edit- You whining babies. There, everyone happy? How's it feel to win by exerting force of rule rather than of reason?

Yes Soaring Crane, increase in fibrous tissue occurs with all muscle growth. And yes, this process of increased density happens with all static, standing exercises like this. Deep Horse Stances (yes, feet directly straight ahead, not angled outwards, haha) and the like all create more dense muscle.

Most are unaware of the different types of muscles they can cultivate. There is toning, which is light, rapid contractions- this gives good definition but no strength, and an endurance for quick successive movements. Then there is endurance training, like long distance running- this is defined mostly by its cardiovascular quality increase. Then there is strength training, like Strongest Man challenges that are lifting semi-truck tires and such. There is body building, which is lots of toning, but also work that increases the "belly" and size of the muscle, but only gaining superficial strength. Then there is fast twitch muscle- this is training the ligaments/tendons/nerves and their corresponding muscles to contract as hard and as quickly as possible from a relaxed state (This is cultivated by Internal Martial Artists), and a subtle, refined control over them.

Then there is what you're doing- Increasing the number of fibers inside the muscle, and compacting what is already there. You are creating a more tightly packed, denser muscle. This muscle is designed for holding its contraction for long periods. Notice this is quite different than any other muscle function previously mentioned. It is a distinct form of muscle/training, and it is heavily cultivated by martial artists of all kinds. The endurance of this muscle has further degrees of endurance than the previous muscle types, and it has the added benefit of being far more capable of taking repeated strikes from an opponent... meaning you get more bang for your buck all around in terms of effort and energy, time used to train, and the result itself creating multiple benefits, rather than just a targeted one.

Keep it up.

Much of what we consider magical or mystical could potentially be understood as science. But that's only the outlook of the rationalistic left hemisphere of the brain (Yang). If you make an absolute out of it, well, that's the left hemisphere claiming all the credit for itself.

 

This is basically the stand taken by many modern scientists; they dream of finding a TOE (Theory Of Everything) soon. Despite the fact that they can't explain what about 90% of the universe is made of. But surely, it's only a matter of building an even bigger particle accelerator, or an even stronger space telescope...

 

Contrary to this, I believe that the more we understand, the more new questions will be raised, and the more will the mystery deepen. Will there ever be an end to it? Maybe not. Maybe even the most evolved entities don't have all the answers. Except that consciousness which abides in Infinity...

 

The more we learn, the more we will stand in awe in front of the mysteries of creation.

 

And that's the perspective of the mystical right hemisphere of the brain (Yin).

 

In other words:

 

As mysticism becomes more scientific, science becomes more mystical.

The current scientific majority accepts a Quantum Field Theory that is a mathematical exercise and does not operate in the real world. This has been known for nearly a century, and everyone from Einstein to Sagan were large critics of the "Universe is the only thing there is" theory, as opposed to the "Universe exists inside a vast nothingness," theory. Black holes, wormholes, etc... are all mathematical exercises that are not real. Einstein himself said that nature wouldn't allow a singularity to be formed like this, but that something called a "black body" was actually what was happening, which simply absorbs light. But it doesn't tear some hole in space-time.

All of this can be looked at at one of my favorite sites, SpaceAndMotion.com. Check it out.

Either way, the point was that with our current paradigm, it is constantly necessary to CHANGE the theory itself for the continuous exceptions to the rules. Whereas, any sound scientific theory SHOULD PREDICT outcomes, not be so completely thrown off by them that new and special math and branches of the theory must be invented to maintain it.

What really blows your all's minds, though... is that the miracle IS THE MUNDANE. You all look for more, when more stares you in the face. There is no magic, no special states. Or rather, everyone forgets JUST HOW SPECIAL where we are right now actually is. The strangeness of this world far exceeds most ability to comprehend it. It only seems mundane because people have acclimated to it, and know nothing else. The miracle is now. The magic is science. Stop looking for answers outside of this endless recycling of energy in wave-states, stated as reality by Tao, and now confirmed by our own empirical methods.

What else is there to want? You already live in the land of sacred life and one-energy. Truly, the forest isn't seen for the trees.

I love how I openly offer people the keys to all the traditional skillsets, but explained by physical and scientific means... and no one wants it, lol. It's hilarious. And it's why Laotzu said that the fool laughs at Tao. Understanding it requires a paradigm shift that most people think they've had, but actually haven't. Unless you're totally surprised at the re-interpretation of all the information you've already acquired, you're not doing it right. Everything should change, yet stay the same. And, if real, it will defy all your expectations and inferences. It... ISN'T... what you think. And it is even mundane and disappointing, which is why so many people ultimately reject the truth: they don't like it. It needs jazzed up. It needs magical energies and mystical states of transcendence and god-like consciousness... or it just isn't good enough. It just isn't fun enough. And it doesn't hold their attention.

Unfortunately (or fortunately, from my perspective), if you want badass Taiji superpowers... you're gonna need to dispense with the bullshit first.

I could give you everything you want to know about the internal arts, and how to perform each of the skillsets. But I've got news for you, I'll be damned if I teach anyone the "old way" about Chi and all that nonsense. That's a fantasy my man. You're trying to live in a reality that never actually existed.

Right.

You've certainly made a lot of criticisms without actually saying anything meaningful. I already explained the reason for understanding distinctions. To pretend you don't see them at all is ridiculous. And suffering IS something intentionally addressed in Taoism, whether that sounds Buddhist to you or not isn't my concern.

And the box comes from people who try to intentionally skip around using a word for what they mean for fear that it will make them look unenlightened. It's a stupid game, and people see through it. Talk about enlightenment openly, stop trying to pretend that the mark of an enlightened person is to not use a label for it. We all get it, labels are not the way to understand reality. But they are a part of it. And if you're so hell bent on dispensing with labels and words, I have NO idea why you're on this site. It's hypocritical. Either discuss things, or don't. But don't come on here to tell people discussing things by using words and labels is the wrong thing to do, as you engage in discussion. Discussion requires words. We're not telepathic. So, until you come up with a better way to represent the overarching idea of what enlightenment is, both incorrect interpretations of it as well as its subjective actualization, words are going to have to do for now.

go it thx ,

 

if all things are made of both yang and yin ( which they are ) then how can one be yin and the other yang and then be both yang and yin too ?

 

they can not .

 

or can they

 

does the positive side terminal of a car battery have its negative side in equal amounts with its positive ?

no.

 

if it did , sparks would be instantaneous like when the + side gets close to the - side.

 

which is positive the lead or the acid ?

 

does the negative side? no

 

THATS what a battery does. They are together and separate at the same time.

 

does a magnet have a positive and negative pole at each end ? not really but they do have poles in common when two are more batteries are present . These common poles can be labeled as positive and negative .

 

the positive repels the negative and the negative the positive .

 

things that move forward can be labeled positive and things that go backwards neg . This does not mean that some thigns can only go in one direction or that the pos can be relabeled when its direction changes.

 

You can call north south or south north too .

 

a lie is stating that something is or is not when it is not or is .

 

its just flipping poles.

 

the truth is stating something is when it is and is not when it is not .

 

this is attraction while the lie is pushing away. just like the magnet

 

agreement is like two common poles of a magnet and opposition is like the two repelling poles of a magnet

 

the common side can definitively be labeled as positive and its negative , negative every time in every case and perspective nor context has no say in the matter . This is non exceptional

 

if this is not the way of the tao then im not taomaster

 

yes. I understand you can label a pole as positive and label the other as negative and then switch the labels around. Or remove them all together. a single Magnet does not have a positive or negative .

 

when you have two magnets you still only have two poles. 100 magnets , still two poles.

 

you can break the magnet in half and still have the same two poles.

 

Positive pole attracts pos and repels neg . Same for the neg . It attracts likeness and repels opposites.

there is no way to break it in half and just have a positive magnet or just a negative.

 

so is the yang and yin avatar i use . The black never touches the white and yet it is still a single circle. if you break it in half its still black and white. The white side is positive and the black side negative Yang and yin .

 

this rule applies to all things in the universe. from the smallest particle to the largest Galaxy.

 

 

 

ViscountValmont,

 

how can you label the Yang as fullness, masculinity, light, hardness ?

 

why is fullness not a yin attribute or light and hardness ( which is actually a yin attribute )

 

what other things in the world are yin or yang and how do you determine this ?

 

did you read about it in a book ?

 

this is what im after

 

if we label yang as yes and yin as no with yes being positive and no being negative does this not exist ?

 

is this non existence the way of the tao ?

 

If it doesn't exist then how can i perceive it every day in my life. If any thing can be perceived , then it exists. Even if its a whisper of a thought, or a wisp of a breeze, its a thing.

 

when i tell my dog to go and she just sits there, I see that as a big no and when she goes, I see that as a big yes.

 

when i play ping pong we hit the ball over the net back and forth but one of us had to serve it first . The server is yang then yin then yang then yin until one of the two fail .

 

Yang and yin is a way to organize what the heck is going on in the world , whats right and whats wrong. Context plays a role when determining which is which and so does sequence.

 

its when we don't assign positive or negative we have disorder, a yin attribute.

 

a magnet like our universe has 6 sides.

 

top bottom, left right and front back

 

its a box that so many refer to when they say "think outside the box" .

 

the circle is its opposite to the square and yet the circle also has 6 sides just like the box.

 

what makes them opposite is that one is curved and the other is straight .

 

which came first ?

 

the circle

.

 

ill let you determine how i came to this conclusion

heres a hint . do you see any box shaped planets suns or stars ?

 

if a lie is stating the truth is not true, how can the lie exist is there is no truth to lie about ?

 

can there be a lie- without the truth+ first+ ? no -

 

can there be truth+ without a lie- after- ? yes +

 

i see a yang and a yin right there and its as definite as the sun is bright

 

there's only one " up " even if you are upside down , up is still up. its just that up is down until you are not upside down.

 

a thing is what it is when its first created . if you change that it no longer exists as that first thing and now a new thing is created but it too has a first and when its destroyed it has a last .

 

every thing has a first and last . if you assign the first as pos and its last as neg, then all things in the universe can and do have a definite yang and definite yin , no exceptions .

 

which is which and how is it determined in a definite way ?

 

if we can determine this for one thing, then all things can be determined this way . the true law of duality is not a selective law based on perspective

I label it thusly because it was originally explained to me thusly. However, the deeper understanding allows these terms to be discarded, and replaced with whatever we deem appropriate. Because it is ONLY the defining factors of positive and negative that count. And those are relative, which can be their opposite and contain their opposite at any given moment based on dynamic parameters.

All I know is that the ancients grouped masculinity in with light and hardness and called it Yang, and their opposites so on and so forth. It's like asking about astrology. It comes down to, for some reason, universal archetypes. And I do mean universal. Certain types of trait groupings seem to "clump." I also think that this is explainable by math and physics as well, as we have seen the deeper effects of fractal mathematics and even new insights into "chaos" using standard Newtonian Physics and a Double Pendulum... and how unexpected the connections are and how obscure they can be. Or how simplistically a complex mechanism can be expressed in the most seemingly unlikely or counter-intuitive places. Therefore I am sure that there is a larger, over-arching mathematical connection between the traits we view as Yin and Yang, especially because of the apparent ease with which nature seems to accept these archetypes.

Welcome to TTB

 

I think you present a truncated history. There was shamanism, and a spiritual and energetic prior to the more philosophical methods; you simply mention the Religious methods which come later.

 

There have been plenty of discussions on this but my point is always going to be that whatever box someone wants to put around what is Tao[ism] is a box of their own making. Remove any boundary (including historical ones) and then one will be more likely to discover what is Taoism.

Yes, I'm aware of its shamanistic history. But you must see the period in which Tao itself came into its own. You cannot present Taoism in any sort of singular form, but rather accept it for its form at the time in which one refers. The shamanistic period is not Tao, it is a predecessor of Tao. It has many of the same or similar energetic systems and even shares similar beliefs. But as it came unto its own definition after people left "the wild," to put it generically, and it became a philosophical method, combined with energetic practices which set it apart from its shamanistic past, and distinguishes it from its religious offshoots and evolutions later.

Though I do agree. Putting Tao in a box is like puttin' Baby in a corner. You just don't do it ;-) But that's actually my point. I see that many people on here bog themselves down with factors of Tao that are unnecessary or just flat don't actually belong. Tao fully accepts any practice... but if in this "dream" of Tao, I decide I want bigger pectoral muscles, I cannot practice watchmaking to get them. While in the dream, we must follow its rules to get results we want. Those results do not matter, and our wanting them is unimportant. But we, the one source, play this game for the sake of the thrill of individuality. And so one cannot achieve "awakening" with an incorrect worldview. Hence, those being awake, and those not. We acknowledge there is at least an illusory difference. And while the habit of putting Tao in a box is something Tao is all about ridding oneself of, we realize that there is what works and what doesn't on a practical level.

I simply make a point for others to understand that I practice the Tao of Laotzu and Zhuangtzu. The kind they practiced, which was a philosophical Tao, meant to alleviate suffering and to explain the universe. Something that it does beautifully if understood correctly and implemented correctly. However, what I also attempt to do is cut through the bullshit that these early writers muddied their works with.

It was a secret, and it still is. And I don't like it. But, the ancients didn't like giving away their insights without making the subject work for it. I think that is something that came from a time period that no longer exists. Or rather, many of our current societies provide a secure enough atmosphere that the walls of secrecy can come down. And I like to try to make the Daojia (not Daojiao) more accessible to the average person. To realize that the Tao that Laotzu and Chuangtzu speak of is not meant to have used Yogic practices until we leave our bodies and so on. We can do those things, and I think they're an important part of spiritual development. But Tao is not meant to be spiritually escaped. We are meant to see the beauty of everyday normal consciousness, the "miracle" (I don't like words that smack of divinity) of our existence, and the strangeness of reality... and just how lucky we are to be here.

The enlightenment I have received has been a glorious re-interpretation of the world around me. And all of my insights have been of a "physical" nature, one could say. The allay of my suffering was found in literal, physical relaxation inside my body. Everything I have achieved follows strictly by Tao principles of Yin and Yang, and my Taiji being "internal," it also follows this guideline as well. It's very strange, the irony I have experienced. I have continued my practice over the years, always expecting one thing, only to get the result I want but for a different reason! I never expected these insights, but they have been revealed to me nonetheless. And so, I give them freely to others who would like to benefit from them. I offer an eminently practical and accessible Tao with all the fruits the "internal arts" have always promised- martial ability, health, and the keys to a happy life.

Goldisheavy,

I see now what you are missing in your philosophy. You need an "awakening of unity." I myself did not need this, I needed an "awakening of non-judgment." Each of our dispositions and nature have different needs. You do not see the full unity arising from the single source, and therefore equality and sameness. This renders the matter of choice and difference invalid. However, this kind of truth must be felt, realized. Not intellectualized. I hope maybe you will meditate on this, and see what you find. Look inside yourself, as you have for you ego, and find the part of you that TRULY sees that all things are really one, without difference and without distinction.

This is my point. While Yin is inherently emptiness, femininity, darkness, softness... and Yang fullness, masculinity, light, hardness... The point is that there is no truly determining what is what. There is no static definition, because ALL things are both Yin and Yang simultaneously, and fluidly I might add. Always changing toward it's opposite, with no true "purity" of either. That is the rule. Tao just operates this way.

TaoMaster,

There's no such thing. Anything you can define as one, you can define as the other. "Tall-er" is "Yang" because Yang is inherently the definition of "more," and taller in this context implies that. It depends solely on the parameters. You could just as easily define the parameters to create a situation where it was Yin, about anything. Because that is the true nature of Tao, not because it's a trick of words or anything. I'm also aware of the way in which I speak about "god," and indeed so. Because I am capturing most people's poorly thought out version of god, which they they hoist upon the world with great vigor. And I urge people to look harder. Ultimately, I have no true care for whatever people say or do, including how they label their beliefs about the universe. But I think it's a quality of truth many people don't care to ascertain, and it's pitiful. But, however they need to do things is their own experience, and I respect it as the way another being must go about things. But, I am my own nature too, and express it so in the way I see fit as well. Nothing more complicated than that for any of us.

Edit: Apologies I didn't address everything in your response. One of which was the reference to Yin being the first state, and I wholeheartedly agree. I found this truth in Taiji... Everything starts and comes to rest in Yin. It is the void in which all things are allowed to manifest. Agreed :-)

Thanks for responding people.

 

If I may>>

 

What were some of your most lasting and effective "sudden realizations" while learning Tai Chi movement (about TC movement, or otherwise)?

All of martial Tai Chi is contained within the Standing Tree "rooted" position, while swinging the arms side to side, using only the hips, completely and utterly relaxed, especially at the shoulders.

“Flow with whatever may happen, and let your mind be free: Stay centered by accepting whatever you are doing. This is the ultimate.” -Zhuangzu

Flow is what Tao is all about. There is a natural flow, and that is reality. One can CHOOSE to fight it, or go with it. There is a choice, but an ultimate reality that is going to prevail. My words may have been unclear as to HOW I mean "automatons," but my meaning is in no way ill aligned with Taoist beliefs. I make no hard lines in what is happening other than the fact that Tao is a force in life that can either be accepted or fought. Reality, despite my choices in life, prevails. Sometimes I get what I want, sometimes I don't. I attempt to achieve my ends, but accept that reality will ultimately dictate whether I get what I want or not. And this is MY personal freedom that I have. Not all people have the freedom of having "let go" (to which there are also varying degrees). Most people are still very much fighting this flow of life, which further reduces their actual choices. Taoism states that all things are inherently equal and free by nature. But being completely equal means that all things are, in essence, the same. Many parts of the same "one." Now this clearly approaches the "But I can tell the difference between this and that," argument. Which is true. But, that is Yin and Yang. Things appear to be separate, but are really not. There appears to be choice, but ultimately there isn't.

Example: I save a child's life at birth, and he grows up to be Hitler. Was my action positive or negative? And I don't mean in the moral sense. But, measure the weight of things that could be considered positive qualities versus negative ones as a result of the act. Most would say that the cost of saving the child was high. No one is saying one should or shouldn't save the child's life, but simply that the cost is obvious. Therefore, there is clearly a lot of negative involved. And yet, no one chose this to be what happened after saving the child's life. It just happens. I have a certain amount of choice over my own actions, but ultimately, the actions that culminate as a result of other people and the rest of existence provides a tide of events that, as a single person, one must deal with. It is greater than us, and therefore must be accepted. And because most people do not see this flow, and do not know how to come to accept things without judgement, they will fight and struggle causing suffering.

This is what was meant by my statements. Resume your Buddhist talks.

It is fatalistic. And I'm sorry you don't understand it. But this is the Yin and Yang of things. Freedom and a prison, at once. We have free will, and yet we do not. I will provide Taoist scripture when I have some extra time. However, it may be the writings of Wu Xin that I quote when I do.

Bullshit on Buddhists "choosing" their lives. What a load of tripe. Another assumption that can never be proven. And I'm glad some particular Buddhist sect has decided on "what" reality is, but I take a little more convincing than what some guy says based on his long meditations. I believe in Tao because Tao is demonstrably true. The assertions of Buddhism are religious nonsense half the time. Quantum Theory is in line with Tao, and this adds credence. It's not some baseless assumption that awareness is eternal. Which has zero actual proof. At least my proposals have actual correlations with other disciplines.

Anyway, you all enjoy this.

I'm well aware of the energetic work within Taoism. It's mostly falsely attributed garbage by the Celestial Masters cult, which had a Jesus-Type-Crazy man prophet seeing visions at their helm. No thanks. (Immortality was attributed to Taoism by this insane cult. Real Taoism doesn't care about longevity and living forever)

I sense that I am one of the highest Taiji players here at the forum. Not because I am so good, but because I see a fundamental lack of understanding in most of people's posts about how to achieve martial ability with the internal arts... So yes, I'm fully versed in what each of the energetic approaches of Taoism are for:

Qigong is for bodily awareness, nothing more. Stop confusing it with spiritual practices. Neidan is the real, closed door system for energy work in Tao. Neigong is for giving the practitioner weird abilities like bioelectric shocks, or Yin Yang Universal Energy Palm (cold and hot strikes).

Satya, your post on atheists and god is something you're entitled to... but it's short sighted. I no more engage in "more delusion" as a result of my atheism than you do in using words to describe your own thoughts and opinions on this website. You are still just as big a slave to words as everyone else. This is the problem with Buddhist teachings. They feel they should RID themselves of these types of things. Tao says you can't. That is the Yin and Yang of things. We will always be dependent on words, we will never "evolve" past it, or "devolve" back into a state where we don't use them. We always fluctuate back and forth between the use of them, and not: Yin and Yang. That's all. Words are not Tao, it's true. But neither is god.

And thank you Grandmaster P :-)

Straining an analogy to its limits is as a result of analogies by their nature being incapable of truly describing their intended mark. This is why Tao De Ching states that spoken words are not Tao. Words are always inadequate in describing reality and experience.

You'll note though, that in The Matrix, there is no actual "matrix," visa vie a place one's consciousness actually exists separate. It is only humans in the physical world who are plugged into a program that makes them think otherwise. No one is actually "inside" the matrix. It's an illusion.

Also, Tao states that there is no freedom apart from the understanding that we have no freedom. We are all basically automatons, playing out our roles in synchronicity with the rest of existence to perfection. This is the freedom. That there is no right and wrong, and that all things are exactly as they should be. Not because of "should and shouldn't," but because things cannot be any other way. Reality unfolds as it can, and as it has to. There is no alternative. We cannot make decisions otherwise than how we do. If we "change," it is a change that was inevitable anyway. Again, not because anyone says so, this is not god. It is just a way of understanding the complexity of causality, and understanding that the preceding actions which lead up to our own are so massive in composition, having so many parts of origin and with such force, that we are helpless to deny them. No one decided to be born, their gender, their parents, their physical body... people don't even choose their thoughts and opinions! It's all running on autopilot, and the best thing we can do is just let go. To do our best, of course. But to let go.

It appears that physicalism and the ideas of objective reality sadly hugely have penetrated the Buddhist culture thanks to Buddhism being introduced to the West while being subsequently mixed with the Western culture. There is no escaping of the Western culture too. Now the Western culture is not limited to the West. Just look at China, for example.

 

Personally I like many things about our Western culture, so don't think I am summarily bashing it. I like how we at least try to treat men and women equally (equal pay for equal work, allowing women to travel on their own and to decide their own dress code, allowing women to vote and hold government positions, etc.). The culture of critical thinking is also uniquely Western because in the East people tend to be drones and followers a lot more often, without the strong ability to think independently. This is connected to individualism. In the East fitting in is much more important than it is in the West. This restricts freedom of thought. Of course there are free-thinking individuals everywhere, but generally our culture in the West is more amenable to freedom of thought.

 

So I am not smashing the entirety of our Western culture. I think in many ways we need to preserve our culture and regard it as superior to anything from the East.

 

That said, there is one extremely nasty feature of our culture. And that's substantialism. We practice substantialism by adhering to physicalism and materialism. Physicalism is the bankrupt idea that the mind is nothing other than the brain. And materialism is the idea that everything real is composed of matter-energy which exists independently of mind and mental factors.

 

Buddhism and many other Indian philosophies radically reject physicalism and materialism. Pretty much all yogic practice presupposes that the practitioner has rejected and put to rest all ideas of physicalism and materialism.

 

So what is the opposite of substance? The opposite of substance is illusion or dreaming. This must be understood by anyone who wants to dabble in yoga of any kind, Buddhist or otherwise.

 

Suppose I am looking at a chair. What does it mean to consider the chair substantial? What are the implications? They are: the chair exists whether I look at it or not, the chair has nothing to do with my own mental state, my perception of a chair is only a representation of the chair and is not the chair itself because the chair itself is beyond my experience as an object that exists in its own right independently of my own mind.

 

Now, if you were to reject the substantiality of a chair and consider the chair to be insubstantial, what then would be the implications? They would be: the chair is wholly dependent on the state of mind, outside the mental state no independent chair can be found as an object, there would no longer be a sense of objectivity because each point of view would bring its own creativity to the chair, and none of those experiential chairs would be more or less authentic than the other, and there'd be no God or substance to mediate and synchronize perceptions among beings. Thus from the POV of insubstantialism, individual experiences can become very fluid to the point of diverging entirely from convention. Thus if you have a group of 20 people looking at a chair, one or 5 of those people can see the chair turn into a dog, and this experience would have no explanation within a substantialist framework of experiencing.

 

What's another way of saying that all experiences are illusory? What's another way of saying that all suggestions inherent in the endless array of suggestive appearances are void of ultimate meanings? Simple: subjectivity! It means that our experience is profoundly subjective and rather than fighting this, it should be embraced and exploited by those who are committed to yoga of any kind. So if I see an appearance suggestive of a chair, and I refuse to follow along with the suggestion, what am I doing? I am exercising the power of my own subjectivity. Nothing more. Nothing less.

 

Why do the Buddhist texts, including many Dzogchen tantras, say "illusion, illusion"? Do you think they are just kidding around? Do you think it's just a metaphor and that it's perfectly OK for us to keep clinging to substantialist views on experience while claiming to follow Buddhism or Dzogchen?

I'm sorry... But "ignoring the chair" as exercise of subjectivity breaks down as soon as you replace "chair" with "car." And "ignore" with "runs you over." While I agree on some points of your post, your demonstration of subjectivity is a logical fallacy. A better analogy is The Matrix (which was inspired by the Buddhist tradition of reality anyway... and I know, really cliche and annoying, but hold out a moment). When you are in the matrix (everyone is), you can be aware you are in it, but you cannot ignore the rules. Some rules can be bent, others broken (Internal Arts of varying types). But there is a knowledge of there being a larger sense, an "outside the matrix." This is a metaphor for enlightenment. But I digress.

Most people wholly misunderstand exactly WHAT science has to say about reality these days. Now I am Taoist, so you'll excuse my biased bent toward that understanding here (and I am lacking in specificity over Buddhism, so bear with me). Okay, so science has no consensus, despite what the media portrays, on a Unifying Field Theory (ie- String Theory, Quantum Gravity, etc). One such Field Theory that has quickly gained very real respect, has been Biocentrism. It states that all matter is either wave or particle (this is old hat, everyone knows)... Yet the paradigm shift comes from the theory's assertion that it is CONSCIOUSNESS that actually affects the very fabric space and particles. Experiments using single photons and other sub atomic particles that we have done for a century bear out results we simple cannot understand: That the determining factor of whether a "Wave Function" (basically, a set of probabilities that something will become a particle) collapses into a particle is human observation! Particles will even alter the flow of time itself to follow this parameter. The results of these experiments can easily be researched and verified. It is the single greatest mystery of Physics.

Therefore, physics itself is beginning to understand how dependent the universe is upon consciousness. And further, that ALL THINGS are insubstantial. Even String Theory states this: that matter is energy compressed into high frequency vibrations. This alone conclusively proves what much of the Buddhist traditions say.

I propose to you, and all of you... That the universe isn't in fact "physical" at all. What we call physical is very much not mundane, and that we live in this special "thing" with no name, which its very existence and governing laws of physics and so on... is itself a kind of miracle. A celestial clock without a maker. And I make no separation between "spiritual" and living in this place of existence we call the physical world. And I don't relegate it to being "lower" and of need of discarding and escaping either.

* And this sort of argument occurring presently is why I don't care for Buddhism really. Way too much emphasis on all this crap anyway. Come on over to the dark side, folks. The Tao is fine ;-)

Yin and Yang are two relative states of positive and negative, that's all. Like breaking down the world into sub-atomic quarks, it's the final duality before all things simply exist as a vast, empty, potential energy. The complexity actually comes in the same way it does in physics... Yin within Yang within Yin within Yang, and so on, exponentially smaller and smaller until it becomes impossible to tell the difference. And that's the point. Like attempting to discern the edge of an object: in reality, it doesn't actually exist. And looking at it at the atomic level proves this. Almost all things, including "solid" things, are actually empty space, held together by invisible forces of positive and negative, which can build on each other creating more complex structures. Tao explains all of this. And, it also holds true for the macro-world too. Things just become a more gross, unrefined nature (example: what is a chair? Is it its material, like wood or metal? Is it the composition of the sum of its parts; back, seat, and legs? Is it defined by its purpose? Is it defined by whomever sits on it?), which requires more relative states of understanding simply to label them. I am 5'11" and you are 5'10"... therefore, I am Yang and you are Yin. But my friend is 6', so now I am Yin and he is Yang. So on and so on.

If you want to further madden the process... imagine what Yin and Yang do to most irreducible concepts, like the universe? Example: solid objects are Yang and space is Yin. Then, imagine the entire universe as a whole and single entity (think about the chair analogy). What is its opposite? What about god? Okay, so, Satan/Antichrist? Well, imagine the two of them as opposing forces that create a Yin/Yang single unit, what's the opposite of that? What about heaven and Earth, and everything within them... what is the opposite of THAT? This is why Tao is bigger than the immature, unrefined idea of "god." A concept conceived by intellectually lazy people who sought an easy explanation to the universe, and in their infinite self-centeredness, chance they fashioned this so called god into their own image (ironic they tell people it's the other way around).

You see? Every time you create a dual nature, that dual nature can be seen as two connected parts of a single whole entity, which then creates a mirror image of itself. It's the Golden Ratio. And this happens simply by virtue of being capable of defining it as one thing rather than another. You can demonstrate this to yourself by investigating the concepts of "Up and Down," "Hot and Cold," "In and Out." And one cannot even exist without the existence of the other! They are dependent on each other! If there is a "some-thing," then there is its opposite. Always. And THE ACT of being able to say, "This thing is THIS, and NOT THIS," is inherently dualistic! As soon as something is defined as having attributes which something else does not, you create a polarized system that is reduced down to Yin/Yang. But then, Yin/Yang is not where it ends. It's only where the material word begins! What we do in Tao (or not do, whatever, haha) is regain our sense of that which is neither one nor another, but is the unity and "non-duality" of all things. When we can see that choice is actually an illusion because Yin and Yang are always changing and flowing into one another (I save a child's life, yet that child grows up to be Hitler)... We can get in touch with the non-judgment side of the understanding we have no control over ourselves or our lives, ultimately. And that the purpose of all things is to relax into everything that comes, as there is no way to truly change it.

This is Yin and Yang.

I'm no longer sure exactly what tradition you people study. But it isn't Taoism.

I am Taoist. If you're not, that's fine. But, Taoism IS A PHILOSOPHICAL METHOD FOR ACCEPTING THE INEVITABLE. Taoism only became a bunch of other crap centuries later at the behest of Zhang Daoling.

Taoism states that things happen, and that there is nothing we can do about it. The sage does all things while doing nothing. The world changes around us without our doing anything. It is not "predetermination," as in theistic theories. But rather, it is the culmination of a boundless set of events that cannot end any other way than as it is right now. If reality could be different, it WOULD be different. But it is not. Reality begs to differ with our qualms with it by showing us only what can be shown. Taoism is to learn to ACCEPT this reality. Hence, "going with the flow" that Tao is all about. Non-judgment is the essence of Tao.

Death is not to be fretted over. No, I don't bother worrying about what comes after life, because it isn't important. We were all unaware of ourselves pre-birth, and that's turned out fine. We are all figuring it out as we go along. We were all tossed into this world without any instruction, given only our parents and their experience in life attempting to navigate and figure it out before us. Whatever happens in death, I will be given the tools to deal with it, just as I have been here. But all evidence seems to point to a vast nothingness. And that is comforting.

Life is not a test.

Of course I feel the same "save the cell" instinct that every being feels. Overcoming that urge in the most natural way possible is the goal. One will always feel fear, the question is if one will feel dread. One will always feel pain, the question is if one will always suffer. Our approach to this defines how we deal with existence as a whole. I, now, don't hold on to things anymore. I don't hold on to the idea of my own death, I can control that I don't focus on it, and if I happen across the thought, I am easily relaxed into any tension it creates inside me. I make no judgments on myself for thinking about death, or about death itself, or about what I "must" achieve, or who I should be... I just enjoy whatever I happen to be doing at the time. I have things I want to do, not things I have to do. I realized one day that the same judgments I had on a stone or a wave of water... would hardly be the judgments it would have about itself. And that its understanding would scarcely resemble my own, of anything. And it was this that lead me to see that all my judgments about my own life were irrelevant. All of it. And that the line, "The Tao that can be spoken of, is not the Tao," actually is referring to the labeling of things. Words themselves. That we must stop using words to pretend that they are what we conceive them to be. That they are, 1) without name, and 2) are more complex and important than our words and concepts can convey about them. Human judgment is a fly speck of a drop in the bucket of the events of the cosmos. To put stock it in is a laugh of the highest order.