Icedude

http://www.ulc.net/index.php?cat=17&page=shop (they do test you, somewhat).

Yes, and they're christian. I don't think they possess the knowledge to be able to test me for a completely different religion. ...but thanks anyway.

I've already solved my problem: I'll just go to a nearby buddhistic temple and ask them. I'll just wait a couple of years for them to build the temple first, no problems. It's just that I heard they tested a guy for "Buddha energies" and that got me all excited, imagining some sort of buddhistic Ghostbusters with PKE meters: "Oh, the midichlorian count on *this* one is through the roof! I think we might have an enlightened entity here - at least a class five arhat!"

white tigers say hi

I can test if you qualify as a great man, by comparing you to the Buddha.

Let's see here...

"Hands reaching below the knees"? Check.

"Lion-shaped body"? Check.

"Four canine teeth pure white"? Check.

"Jaw like a lion"? Check.

"Tongue long and broad"? Check.

Well, 5 out of 32 characteristics, isn't bad. You're not a lion by any chance? That would make you score even higher.

God's not gonna give you a certificate for Buhhhahood is he? It's the competition - he doesn't like Buddha because Buddha didn't worship him!

You have to first be clear which certificate you want and then apply to the relevant authorities.

See? *Now* where getting somewhere!

Can you provide me with an email to said relevant authorities, that'd be great.

(I don't recognize chinese governmental authorities, btw.)

Heck! Several have offered to print one for him, I think. I'd be glad to as well.

Yes, but it's not just in the diploma itself. I need to be able to earn it somehow, through a test of my current state. It needs to stand for something - not just for being an annoying beggar at an internet forum.

Print three which have significantly different appearances (different fonts, borders, gold-foil seals, etc.) Ignorant people who like diplomas seem particularly impressed by them when presented in threes, for some reason.

I only see the need for one, as to my knowledge, there is really only one scale from dukkha to buddhahood.

Again, who are you trying to impress?

 

Yourself? A potential employer? Your mother? A regulatory agency? Potential students/followers? A date?

 

The value of a credential is in its ability impress.

Just people in general. Ignorant people who like diplomas.

God has no need for certificates. How absurd.

The signs of God are everywhere, only if you have the means to see/feel/hear/experience.

That's how God communicates. Not by pieces of paper or levels or belts or silk pyjamas.

I know plenty of atheists that would be more impressed by a glowing, singing cert, than by Gods invisible, mute presence. There's no point in God revealing himself to you, when you already see him.

I would be impressed if God appeared and did a song & dance each time you presented your certificate (until it dawned on me He was just an organ-grinder's monkey) but I would not be impressed by the certificate itself in the absence of the performance.

 

In my life, I have acquired many certificates, degrees and diplomas. I have been offered more. I couldn't tell you what happened yo any of them. (I think my wife may have stuck one of my university diplomas in a box in the garage, maybe.)

 

Who are you hoping to impress?

You guys are completely useless.

For six pages now, half of what I've been hearing is "You don't need a diploma. A diploma is completely useless. You wouldn't be able to back up a diploma. You're just after money, sex and glory.". All of these are just complete excuses.

You'd *like to think* that I don't need a diploma.

You'd *like to think* that a diploma is completely useless.

You'd *like to think* that nobody is more enlightened than you.

You'd *like to think* that nobody could be more genuine than you.

The truth is that you don't know. You don't know what enlightenment is about, how to measure it, how to test for it, or how to cert it. ...but you'd like to play these stupid mind games, based on your selfish assertions, because if you can just drag me down to your level and beat me, then at least I'm not better than you.

You tell me that you don't need diplomas or certs for anthing, so I'm guessing that you just went and got a prestigious job by showing up on time and finding an empty desk. Your boss fully believed that you were capable of handling things, because there's really no need for grades or tests or recommendations. ...but then you got fired one day when you didn't show up to work fast enough, only to find that two monkeys had taken your place. ...because they showed up first, and found your empty desk.

...but you *sound* pretty cool when you say that you're above diplomas. That makes you sound like The Man. Maybe you even *have* said diplomas. What you don't have is a clue.

Who would give God a certificate to prove he was God?

Well God would draw one up, of course.

However Jesus wouldn't be able to draw one up, because he's dependent of God to draw one for him.

This is why we had transmissions and lineages, at least back in the day, that was supposed to lead all the way back to Buddha. Buddha "drew" his own certificate, and then the guys who found him bought into it for some reason. ...and people apparently got pretty pissed when Buddha just selected one guy to transmit to. *slowly begins transforming into John Cleese.* Today we have lots of people claiming to be buddhas and bodhisattwas, and there are different faiths having different requirements, and nobody seems to know exactly who is who in this giant mess that people still manage to take seriously somehow. If there's no way to test for enlightenment, then what's all the hubbub about? A guy sat down under a tree, and people got interested, and things kind of snowballed, and maybe something really cool was said, but we don't know that. We don't really know, because in steps the first council, who has no clue about what the buddha meant, so they draw up all these ridiculous rules that they define as buddhism, and after that Asoka just chops off their heads off. We can't be the least bit sure that there's anything left. Not unless there is a test of some kind that we can use to verify wisdom and titles with. This is an ex parrot!

Yes, I would.

So no certificate in the world could convince you that anybody was Jesus, not even if God came down from the heavens, danced the macarena in front of you, singing: "Oh, glory to my son, who is my son, and he's just over there, embarrassed over his father making an ass of himself, but he is my son, and here's a glowing, singing cert, that makes flowers blossom and birds ejaculate, that is actually a portal back to this moment in space and time, where I always will be to prove that my son is my son."

Okay.

I did edit my post...please read my elaboration.

 

If people stopped grasping for messiah status, then we would live in a better world. "Wanting" is from desire...so it is clear to me that for you, isn't about helping people. It's about the fame.

Ah, but if I could produce a cert that I was a bodhisattwa, then you wouldn't think or say these things. If I had some kind of glowing stamped cert by God, that I was Jesus, then you wouldn't doubt that I was Jesus.

If no one even close will listen to you without a piece of paper, then you must not have anything to offer anyway.

Are you quite sure about that? You're not just taking a huge dump on me now for no reason? Think it over, because there will be a test.

>I'm not "enlightened" but can still help my community, friends and family live in peace as best as I can.

Yes, "as best as you can". ...but sometimes "as best as you can" might require a certificate. In the case of the user who needed a cert to do acupucture: He can help with grocery shopping too, but he has greater skills than that, which he needs to get validated to be able to use officially.

Exactly. Dalai Lama is a good role model and celebrity. Nothing more.

People consider him to be a manifestation of a bodhisattva, which is why whe's such a role model and a celebrity. You're free to not believe in that, but you cannot convince me that he lacks a title. ...and if people can get tested for titles, just like he was, then I want one too. I'm good for at least being a bodhisattwa.

Because he's not a Zen practitioner.

A piece of paper means nothing.

Pieces of paper "makes the world go round". Well, it used to. Now little electrons in computer systems "make the world go round".

Maybe a piece of paper doesn't mean anything to you, but it does to people stuck in dukkha. It does to students. That's why the Dalai Lama sits surrounded by gold, preaching that gold is cursed: It's a connection with people. There needs to be a bridge somehow, between Nirvana and Dukkha. I'm looking to build that bridge out of paper, just like the zen masters before me did.

Excluding buddhism, zen, etc.

 

Don't get me wrong I love the company here, but if we were all so HARDCORE taoists we wouldn't even use this site.

 

We would be....being somewhere.

 

I envy that.

I concur with ChiDragon: I'd really like to know where this "somewhere" is. Is there a compressed "somewhere" that you've found, that is more "somewhere" than here?

Wow that was a completely ignorant response.......And you want to teach people about enlightenment?

You didnt even understand what I posted. You instead responded to what you think I said instead of what I was actually talking about....

So yes get the piece of paper you are going to need it........

I bet that either one of us could use a paper to wave around right now, because this distrust is exactly what I mean.

You could use that zen diploma for toilet paper, that's all it's good for !

Then why doesn't the Dalai Lama wipe his ass with his robe?

Icedude, there's a very wise, down to earth buddhist dude that I think will resonate well with you. Michael McAllistair from infinite smile. You can listen to his podcasts ie dharma talks at infinitesmile.org. He has a huge number of them and I think they'd be up your alley. He's pretty hip, but hits deep subjects. Many of them are about Enlightenment. Its nature and the work involved getting there.

Thank you.

I'll go and ask him.

Wow thats a rich ,revealing, and ...daunting post...( because theres a lot tied up together in there)

Some sarcasm would have been fine , even so , but forgive me for reading it so .. with exasperation umm its not a strange means of communicating .

Starting just somewhere,, You said that you feel this way ..

"Once you're aware that all your motivations for acting is based on your own illusions, there's really no point to acting, so when you act anyway, you know that it will create a conflict somehow"

I dont agree with that , and Ill give you my reasoning,,

First of all , like you said later ,, Life is supposed to DO something.

I agree that we are made in such a fashion that we have a role to play.. some folks feel that our role is decided by a god , society or a creator , OR as I do, that we self define the role we will play . But even if thats not the case, its a bummer to have nothing to do..and so committing to a bummer situation- that you can opt out of by definining a role for yourself -would be stupid, would it not?

 

Regarding illusions, when most people are told about illusions , they are thinking of magicians or liars or mistakes. But If one looks at what these things have in common , to define illusion, you may see that there is some kind of expectation which is not fulfilled and by not fulfilled , I mean that material evidence which would support said expectation is not to be found after the fact. The 'illusion' is not supported by objective evidence. The experience of living is also not provable to anyone else ,others can form conjecture , they may even be able to predict what you will do under certain circumstance but neither they nor I , can directly experience your life , and the only testimony I we could have about it , is that which you convey to us.

Otherwise worded,, subjective experience constitutes illusion.

 

 

All the intellectual considerations , even the evidence of the existence of matter energy and time has a degree of subjectivity as well , and these also are illusion,, for the same reason , but thats another whole thread.

Anyway , though all is illusionary , that does NOT mean all deserves disregard disparagement etc

 

If a baby was in pain , would it not be spiritually fitting to try to alleviate this pain ? even if it was all in the babys mind?

If you are sad or happy or fulfilled or at peace, ,is that not important because it is subjective?

 

The idea that all actions create conflict , if everything is illusion anyhow , would mean that the conflict is also illusion. The idea of conflict is based on some kind of relationship between things.

 

So your non-action ,done to avoid operating on an illusion based paradigm , would serve only to avoid another illusion based paradigm!

 

and yes there is are terms in regular psychology for existential dillemmas , life roles etc

But Pick one thing at a time , I still think youre juggling too many things at once here.

If you bought something like umm a camera, or a dinner , or a medicine,, youd recognize

it would be rash to immediately throw it in a closet without looking at it ,

or in the trash without testing its merits , etc

without getting any return on your investment!

Likewise ,of the spiritual teachings , youve exposed yourself to,

at least SOME have quality , and you could wisely slow down and give them a thorough run.

Get the value out of them , because dismissing everything as pointless illusion and all actions doomed to inevitable conflict ..

IS A BUMMER ! and no one has been trying to send you the message that your life is supposed to suck.

 

Forget the diploma , you can print one up at Kinkos AFTER the game is won.

Ironically though , you wont need it then , will you?

I was replying to somebody complaing about how I'm acting in a conflicting way. At this very moment where *all* letting kittens starve in Africa. What is that saying about us? ...and if we're over in Africa nursing kittens, we're certainly not working for world peace in the UN at the same time. Wouldn't world peace save a lot of kittens? We're all hypocritical bastards by our very limited nature. Everything we do is stupid and full of conflict, whether we want it to be or not. Pointing that out is hardly a feat. You can turn every action on its head, but all you're doing then, is just saying ”F***ing Icedude, man... He thinks he's all that, but he's clearly not.”.

You later say that I'm ”juggling too many things”. According to who? According to you. To you there's an amount of things, or certain things, that is ”too much” for you to ”juggle”. If you were in my seat you wouldn't be able to handle it, so you can't imagine how that amount could be ”healthy”.

You say that it's a bummer to have nothing to do, so that continuing to do nothing instead of defining a role for yourself, would be stupid. I'm part buddhist, so I happen to think buddhahood and Nirvana is fine too.

Your definition of ”illusion”, where you think that the experience of other people living is an illusion, seems based on ”a brain in a vat”, and that anything that we cannot prove, is an illusion. ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brain_in_a_vat )

That's not how ”illusion” is defined in taoism or buddhism. Rather it is the *value* of existing things, that is an illusion. Pain is a nerve impulse. You feel pain when you exercise too, and life is full of discomfort, but pain isn't always a sign of something bad. Sometimes pain isn't important. That's why you see monks living in asceticism instead of being high on morphine and worldly pleasures: Because while these things (very likely) exist, they're not important.

Yes, conflict is an illusion. That's why I toss it around like confetti.

Yes, even doing nothing could be seen as a conflict.

Complaining over there being conflicts, is like complaining over there being space and time everywhere. Still, you can't ignore the fact. There's also peace everywhere, if you wish to see it that way.

Yes, I'm considering printing a diploma myself, but that wouldn't fill the need to be validated.

Well , Ill assume theres some light hearted sarcasm , RE my post, and it would indicate that what I said might be simplistic , and obvious, ..... and yes , it is simplistic and obvious ,,, therefore you should be noticing that it is basically true as well.. and then still further on that its actually sound advice. Now if you want me to refine to some more precise answer , I might not be able to give it, since I dont know the exactitudes of your circumstances.

You seem bright, do you really want someone picking your life apart and telling you what to do as if you were a small child?

I doubt it.. because I dont care for that either.

Im just suggesting where it is that I think your obstacle is , rather than tell you where some piece of paper can be acquired.

I understand the value of milestones, and so I agree it would be nice to get a diploma , because then you could wave that around and it would really simplify establishing credibility as a foundation for relating to various folks.

I do however doubt you put much stock in the diplomas of other people , and would continue to prod for validation even If I had one to wave. SO thats why I pointed at something simplistic and obvious there , and leave it to you whether you want to grab it or not.

It's not sarcasm. Once you're aware that all your motivations for acting is based on your own illusions, there's really no point to acting, so when you act anyway, you know that it will create a conflict somehow. Just living and breathing will create ripples in existence. That's what life does: It sputters around fueled by its own illusions. I don't know what specific motivational conflict you were referring to, but everything I do, I do, not *because* there's a conflict, but *despite* there being a conflict. I see people suffering and I motivate myself to care about them. Why? Why not? I don't have anything better to do, so I might as well. It's what life is supposed to do: Something. My frontal lobe is intact, so I might as well follow it and let it take me on an adventure, and I have all this fantastical wisdom that would be a waste otherwise.

...but then again, is it really caring? Just like you're saying, many people don't want help, because it makes them feel dumb and embarrassed. There's a conflict, in that the response is pretty much random. Maybe them getting helped all the time will just spoil them weak. There's a conflict, and once again I don't care about it, because there's conflict no matter what I do. There's even conflict in sitting at home and doing absolutely nothing. People can judge everything and find me guilty if they want. I will always be a fiend in *some* light.

I'm not planning on "waving around" the piece of paper - I'm not looking for an achievement.

I know of a yoga teacher, and he's always so content that it looks like he's high on drugs all the freaking time, and underneath it there's seems to be this nasty level of smugness too, despite him refusing to talk about it. I don't know him personally, but I suspect that his smiling muscles must get tired if he's around people for too long.

I'm not like that. I didn't ask for this weird way of seeing things. I didn't ask to see people suffering around me, and knowing exactly why, and them not caring about anything I have to say on the matter. It's frustrating. It's just that I get everything, and I read that there's all these high and mighty descriptions of people who get what I get, so now I'm interested in if there's anything left to learn (and I'm not talking about learning common yoga techniques here), and also if a title could help me to get through to people.

Do I have faith in people who has diplomas in enlightenment? Yes, I do. I have faith enough to consider their words very carefully. Fake diplomas or genuine diplomas, these people cared enough to make themselves seem enlightened, and that makes it worth discussing deep things with them. Genuine or fake, it shows some level of spiritual dedication.

...but yes, of course I wouldn't just believe everything they told me, based on their diploma. If there's a "Mall" sign hanging over a building, that sign is there to indicate the strong possibility of a mall. ...so you go and check out the building, and there's a good change that you'll find at least an *attempt* of a mall, which is cool too. In the case of buddhism and taoism, you can find all sorts of weird malls, which are nothing like the other malls.

...and as for me, I'm looking to see at what level I'm at. There is something "really wrong" with me, and I'd like to figure out what name this "existential syndrome" has. I'm also generally looking for some kind of substance in these faiths, because it's a complete jungle of conflicting definitions, where the goal seems to lack a clear definition.

Cause you might end up like this: http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/may/14/bikram-yoga-sexual-assault-lawsuit

Everybody may end up in sexual assault lawsuits. It's like the flu.

However, it takes a certain speed (desire) to end up responsible for one, and I see no point in building up speed. I'm satisfied with having enough conflicts to keep me sitting here typing.

Speak your truth.

The wisdom of your words will convey the credentials if the listener is listening with the intent to understand, instead of the intent to respond.

Yes, but how do I even get the intent to understand? That's what this thread is about.

The wanting is not tao at some point you have to let go and let tao.

 

The truth is you cant enlighten someone. You can not control when someone awakens. You can only help do so when the spirit of the student is inline for this and the teacher's spirit is inline for this as well. The timing of this is out of your hands.

 

Spiritual teaching should not come from motivations of pride or money or status but only when the spiritual call to teach should the teacher come forth.

 

The tao is very real....its no just philosophy....

 

When the time is right the tao will call you forth.

You have a horrible attitude. I disagree with almost everything you typed.

First of all, you've fallen into a spiritual trap. It's easy to just say "Give up wanting. Give up typing. Don't post. Shut up." in every situation, because that means you don't have to think about problems, and can always provide a copy-paste solution, but in this case that means a will from *your* end for any would be future students of mine to suffer. By stopping me, you're not stopping ten other people. Your copy-paste solution doesn't apply here. It's not impossible for me to give up wanting to teach, but that's up to me.

You say that it's impossible to enlighten someone, because you want me to give up. Still you admit that progress can be made if teacher and student is aligned. I want to align myself, and I want to use a material means to do so. Just thinking that everything is up to chance and fate, sounds very naïve to me. We can arrange the material world, to align material students into leaving the material world.

Again and again I hear this cynical "You're only doing this to be praised, get rich, and get status.", as if everybody coming here is just faking a spiritual call. I'm not from India. My only status will probably just be "That weird hippie guy.".

...so you have a horrible "holier than thou" cop-out, that you can get away with most of the time, but not right now.

Edit:

Please don't be hurt by my post. I mean the above in a firm but a most respectful manner.

An American sage, Robert Adams, once suggested that it would be amusing to have an “Enlightened Beings” convention, and that anyone who showed up would be automatically disqualified.

Are conventions that foolish?

What has conventions ever done to Robert Adams?

^{You have some conflicting motivations , it seems , resolve them and then take the path it suggests No?}

Why? That's kind of what you do when you're enlightened: You don't resolve your conflicts. Instead you just sit down amongst your conflicts and you toss them up in the air and go "Whee! ".

Wanting people to listen to you?

 

Thats just wrong in general its not you that they are listening to its the truth that comes thru you that they will listen to.

 

But enlightenment is paradoxial but the truth of it isnt.

 

Meaning that if you did bump into someone and the tao spoke thru you to tell them something. That person would only remember part of what you said at that time which they felt was relevant to them at that time.

 

Wise words dont always come from wise people.....it is the spirit of truth that is conveyed in the message.

 

Whether its the sound of a bird gong or just someone saying hello to you that can light up your day or make you reflect on things.

 

Its the tao reaching out to us.

 

We only act in accordance with the spirit and energy of the tao.

Is wanting to be listened to not part of the tao?

I thought that was part of most of tao.

However, I doubt that I act in accordance with the tao. A tao master out looking to enlight people, doesn't act in accordance with the tao. He chooses his own direction and speed, and he's out to stop people. I doubt that such an act of tao terrorism, is a natural flow of the tao.

A few things...

 

The most advanced and experienced practitioners I have ever met (and very likely will ever meet) in spirituality, magic, qigong and martial arts ALL were completely unknown, had no diplomas whatsoever, and most people have never heard of them!

 

The whole difficult to hang out with people thing.... well since we are using me as an example lol, I am very extremely fortunate in that ALL the people I know are spiritual practitioners. This was partially purposeful and partially that folks not on similar paths as myself and I just don't mesh or connect. Also when I meet people and think perhaps they are not on a similar path, once we get to talking, we find out that each other is. Practitioners are just drawn to one another.

 

For that sort of test, I guess you could ask any decent level practitioner (try for over 20 years in, 40 is better, to make sure their own personal biases don't get in the way), and ask them "soooo how do you think I'm doing on the whole enlightenment thing? Have I reached nirvana yet?" Though most would look at you like you have been smoking some low grade something or another for asking .

 

Hmmmm, that whole wanting others to listen to you, and pass along some super amazing teachings to them thing is really overrated . I am a bit of a cynic I'll admit, but unfortunately what modern society looks for is physical appearance, fancy posters and websites, and well worded promo ads... well OK maybe diplomas too, but I've not heard of any for enlightenment or nirvana before. Though really, would you want acolytes who are naive enough to fall for the whole diploma thing?

 

I'm curious now why you want this? Because you love teaching? So you can feel important? So you can increase your self worth? So you can make some extra money from it? So you actually have respect from your fellow human beings? Have you found that in general people don't listen to you? It is also a certain air about them that teachers and leaders have that makes people want to follow them. Though at the same time humbleness is what draws people to most teachers.

 

Personally I feel that people who are impressed with me due to external fancy stuff like that are not worth my time (did I mention cynical? Did I also mention still working on stuff? lol)

 

One thing I have found is that the people who have told me they are enlightened were the least enlightened of folks I have met lol, no idea if this is always the case, but amongst magicians it sure seems to be lol. I think even the Dalai Lama when asked if he is enlightened laughed . Also I think once we are enlightened we start to notice we can do some neat stuff....like... not think all the time, manifest stuff, not be 100% physical all the time, or whatever other odd and interesting things. Though I'm only talking about this from things I have seen and noticed and from an outside (tourist) perspective. (personally enlightenment is not on my to do list, but I do see it is a very good goal for other people as it seems to improve people).

 

PS I'm not enlightened, and any possible times of nirvana were short lived, I'm just using myself as an example because people do try to ask me to teach them stuff, and I have taught lots of people, and I know and have spent time around a lot of spiritual people, some of which I personally feel have made it very far along the path. I am also in teaching retirement and quite like it this way .

I'm not looking to be "heard of", but I am looking to be understood and listened to. I know this girl who thought I would beat her up if we met, this after a year of speaking with her. People formulate their own ideas of other people, sometimes completely independent of reality. When not even your fiancé can understand who you are, or what you're saying, because she's so caught up in her own world, then you need external help. Magic, qigong and martial arts, can be demonstrated pretty much in an undeniable way. Spirituality less so.

Yes, going to a temple and asking a decent level practitioner, seems like a good plan. I just hope they know what they're doing.

Again, I'm not looking to be reknowned even in my local area. I'm just looking for a certificate in case people are doubting me. I'm not looking for "acolytes", but yes, the certificate are there for "naïve" people who trust material things.

We seem to have different definitions of who is worthy of being taught. To me it's a waste to teach people who are already on their way to enlightenment, compared to people who suffer the most from lack of understanding and who are fixated with material things. Why people would even *want* to pay me for something I can't seem to offer for free, is a strange thought. However, once I didn't give away $60 to somebody as a lesson. I don't have a need for money. I have a bed, food, clothes, and an internet connection. I don't get what else you would need in life. I'm already spoiled. I think I'd rather pay people to listen.

I want to teach for the same reason that any bodhisattwa would want to teach, and most school teachers would want to teach: For people to learn.

Still, I wouldn't like being followed. Even being respected feels uncomfortable to me, but I still seem to need some amount of respect to be understood, which I currently lack.

I don't think I have an air other than the air that people make up about me. Some people think that I must surely stalk the streets at night, peeking into the bedrooms of women. Other people think other things. Rumours are not air. ...but I reckon I have an uncanny *lack* of air, which sometimes drives people crazy. It comes from my lack of identity - my lack of self.

It is the people who are impressed with things like diplomas that I want to reach. They're the ones who are worth my time.

>One thing I have found is that the people who have told me they are enlightened were the least enlightened of folks I have met

Well, that's why I'm looking to get tested. I've known for many years that I don't think like other people, and there's something off when I eat koans like a bag of chips and just understand everything.

Imagine that you're about to begin a big marathon, and at the start of the gun, everybody finds it really hard to move, like they're stuck to the ground. Everybody but you, who can move freely. You ask them what's wrong, and they tell you that they're unable to move for probably eons and eons, and that they're certainly not going to finish the marathon in *this* lifetime, and probably not the next one either. That sort of fills me with eerie dread, especially when they give me that look that I shouldn't be breaking the laws of physics by not having any problems. Being special means feeling alone and disgraceful.

The Dalai Lama considers himself to be a Bodhisattwa. All power to him, but I can't learn anything from him. The people I learn most from, are just normal people. Especially people who wakes emotion in me, are awesome teachers. (DarkSydePhil on YouTube: Excellent Dukkha artist. Always whines and complains. I can listen to him for hours. He's my meditation.)

Not thinking all the time, is fairly easy.

Manifesting stuff? Physical things out of thin air? Never done it.

Not be 100% physical all the time? Depends on what you mean. If is means your body physically turning untouchable, I've never done it.

Thank you for reading through all of this. I'll probably go to sleep soon.

It's not about diplomas, folks on spiritual paths look for something much different than pieces of paper. Instead we look for how the person leads their life, how they act, the sense of energy and peace around them, the feeling of a sort of power, as well as word of mouth from others who have trained with said person. With the Dalai Lama, I think folks are reincarnated into that position, and those who can actually see/know such things help figure that out. Also keep in mind that the whole striving for recognition from others only distracts us from our path. To be honest, the only thing certificates are good for is if you are performing healing on others, or you are trying to make money from the path.

 

I also practice a non-Taoist path, and have been at it awhile. When people come to train with me it is due to word of mouth, reading some articles I have written, or just the feeling that I know something they also need to know. If someone asked if I had a certificate I would either tell them where to shove said question, or I would get out a scrap piece of paper and write one up real quick .

 

Sometimes folks will have an official lineage certificate if they are a disciple of some path; in this case their teacher will prepare this for them. While these are quite good and helpful to show a lineage and perhaps that someone is valid, there are far more fake certificates or bought ones out there than there are real ones. I could get myself a few within a month if I had the right amount of money and knew which teachers felt money was more important than ethics. There are several martial arts teachers locally who have such "certificates".

I heard that some group of people came to determine whether or not Dharma Sangha was a buddha or not, and they concluded that he didn't have the same "Buddha energies". Also, when people go out to look for the next incarnation of the Dalai Lama, they are apparently testing lots of children in different households. ...so somewhere there is a test that strangers can undertake, that doesn't require years of studies under a teacher.

When you say "Instead we look for how the person leads their life, how they act, the sense of energy and peace around them, the feeling of a sort of power, as well as word of mouth from others who have trained with said person." then that sounds exactly like what I'm looking to have tested. Hopefully you can test enough over the internet, because I guess we're not exactly neighbors.

>Also keep in mind that the whole striving for recognition from others only distracts us from our path. To be honest, the only thing certificates are good for is if you are performing healing on others, or you are trying to make money from the path.

I already explained why I want recognition: So that people will actually listen to me. There are people so caught up in Dukkha, that they can only see material things. ...so I need a material thing as a means of communication.

It's great that you know people who say good things about you. Unfortunately, if you become enlightened enough, you tend to drift away from "the common tounge", and end up being pretty strange when people get to know you. It sort of hinders "hanging out" with people in a social way, at least outside of India.

I guess I can start writing articles on the net.

Still, I'm not sure whether I'd want to attract a whole following of people that come to my house, and peek in through my windows when I'm naked.

Yes, there are probably a lot of fake certificates, but I'm not looking for a fake certificate. Sure, it would be something to show, but I wouldn't be able to fully know that I earned it.

Here you go .

 

diploma-generator.php.jpg

"The State of China in The United States of America"

 

Well you saw it in the movie. He got recognized by someone who could recognize it. Honestly, the first step is to find a teacher that seems legitimate. The second step is to strive to be the best student you can be.

 

If that doesn't get you a diploma, you can at least say you trained for years with them. The work you put in will be recognized. The work you don't put in will be recognized as well, and no one will think anything of you because of that. Strive.

So it seems that I need to actually go to a temple and find a teacher. It feels like a waste of time, but if that's what I must do, then that's what I must do.

With your present state of Nirvana, it seems it will take awhile for you to get a diploma for this "game". I guess you didn't get the real meaning of the definition for Nirvana.

Exactly: I don't get the real meaning of the definition for Nirvana.

Sure, it's described, but people expect big things to happen when you reach Nirvana, and I don't see myself glowing like a 20 foot lightbulb like the Mahayanas think I should be. (Okay, one person actually did, but I'm certain she's schizophrenic. She was going to kill me with a knife, saw my light, and apparently she converted to buddhism soon after, and became a temple nun. Yes, seriously. ...but this was before I was fully enlightened, so we didn't talk anything about buddhism or such things.) The thought of going around glowing with holy light, would be pretty creepy, and the mutant tiger thing would probably be even creepier.

Here you go Icedude .

diploma-generator.php.jpg

Thank you so much!

If only it was genuine too.

You're actually serious?

 

A sage needs no recognition.

Yes, I'm actually serious. Think is something I've been thinking about for a few months. Sure, there is "Dharma transmissions", but those seem to be from teacher to student. I guess I'm out of luck.

Didn't my example show that a sage *does* need recognition?

If nobody listens, then sure he's a sage, but he's no use to anyone. What sort of a bodhisattva would even the Dalai Lama be, if nobody listened to him and everybody thought he was just a loon?

That's what teachers are for to help with, to either help you see the signposts and know you have progressed, or tell you you have your head up your behind in thinking you have already "made it". They have been there done that sort of thing.

Exactly.

> How about a lightly trolling forums diploma?

I bet if I had a diploma, you wouldn't think me a troll.

If you have reached the state of Nirvana, then why do you still need a diploma.....??? Your diploma is within your heart, isn't that what Buddhism is all about....???

 

Ref: Nirvana

Imagine my ex and the Dalai Lama walking down the street in a relationship.

The Dalai Lama wears normal clothes, else people would laugh at him, and probably incarcerate him.

Officially, he is nothing more than her "muppet".

They never speak of deep things or even emotions. She just prefers to watch TV.

Her life is filled with hate and fear and misery and an endless chase after meaningless things.

Occationally the Dalai Lama tries to convey some sort of wisdom that he thinks is suitable for her, but she dismisses it as "rubbish talk" before she even considers it.

One day she has a random emotional breakdown for little to no reason. She cries and she feels extremely ashamed and somehow she decides it's his fault, as he's talking to her at the time. The stupid useless muppet is thrown out, and is told to never even contact her again. She decides to live a life in complete misery instead.

The Dalai Lama thinks back to the moment when he actually admitted to her that he was a zen master. The reply was "In what game?".

This is why I need a diploma: So that people can take me seriously enough to listen to me.

"It's like this: If you learn all the skills needed to be a neurosurgeon, you can go around telling people that you're a neurosurgeon all you want, but nobody will hire you until you get credentials. If you tell people that you're a neurosurgeon without credentials, people will simply think you're a loon. ...and maybe you are a loon too, but you would have no way of telling without credentials proving it to yourself too."

And of course, if one learned all the skills to become a neurosurgeon then they would have gone to medical school, received a diploma, then spent several years in residency required to achieve those skills and would have the diploma. If they had of only learned a small part of it, then gone out to call themselves an accomplished practitioner, look at how much harm they could do. They would probably turn out to be idiots with an intense hatred of real neurosurgery due to their own failure to learn it, and have neurosurgeon idiot students, and they would probably post anonymously on a forum as someone else and insult all other real neurosurgeons. Personally I am glad that neurosurgeons need diplomas to practice and that actual study of real neurosurgery is required to receive the diploma.

I'm speaking of learning all the skills outside school. ...by experimenting on cats. ...and the occational dog.

There's probably sufficient material on how to be a neurosurgeon floating around on the internet, so you can learn it all without taking a single actual lesson, and feel like you've mastered it. (This type of buddha is apparently called samyaksambuddha.) However, without taking a single test, you will never prove to yourself or others, that you meet the defined requirements to be acknowledged as an official neurosurgeon. ...so you can skip lessons all you want, but there needs to be a test. At least in my country you can schedule tests without having to attend classes. That's basically how universities work here.

There is of course proof that reaching buddhahood can be done without taking lessons: Siddhartha Gautama for one.

>I hear you can attend a "get certified to be a ch-kung master" - on your lunch break.

>

>You get a diploma, and for just $199.99 more- you can also get a cool, kabbalah red thread

>bracelet- but you must ACT NOW!

I of course don't want just *a* diploma. It needs to be official and certified and genuine and stuff. The whole idea is to get approved and validated.

You said,

 

"I know that I'm not spiritually hungry or thirsty anymore."

 

Look at that huge paragraph you just typed. Really?

I still haven't preached a fraction of the years that Buddha preached. For Buddha, reaching Nirvana meant work. This is also why I said that I'm typing *from* Nirvana, and not *in* Nirvana.

I totally get people who are too lazy to read, too lazy to write, too lazy to do anything, too lazy to fuzz over anything, and too lazy to even feel any shame over being lazy. ...but even laziness won't give you peace of mind in the end.