Icedude

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Posts posted by Icedude

  2. Posted

    What causes you to believe the reason Buddha, Lao Tzu & Chuang Tzu didn't promote schools is because "they had no idea that those schools would survive that far"?

     

    Common sense. You can hardly make those kinds of predictions. However, I don't think I phrased that as them having a reason against it. I just don't think they saw a point to it. Buddha sat under a tree talking to people, and Lao Tze lived in a country that had an emperor with complete opposite views. You'd be counting on common people to suddenly realize that what you're blathering on about actually makes sense. It rarely happens.

    • Like 1

  4. Posted

    "Just because they didn't promote schools, it doesn't mean that they would oppose them either. They just didn't bring future schools up, also because they had no idea that those schools would survive that far."

     

    @icedude, lao Tzu and chaung Tzu advise us to step away from knowledge. other ancient sages from other cultures i.e. greeks tell us the same thing. in the book of genesis, same thing.

    having said that, I get a diploma this may hehehe well I will if I can stay off ttb long enuff to finish my thesis, ha!

     

    I'd like to ask for quotes, because I think you're taking things out of context now. The concept association went from enlightenment, to diploma, to schools, to knowledge. There is knowledge (as in preconceptions), and there is knowledge (as in experience). It's also said that you'll know when you're enlightened. Am I supposed to step away from that knowledge as well? I think you're over-interpreting things, and as for christian genesis, the tree was only dealing with the knowledge of good and evil.

  5. Posted

    (I am going to trim your post in my response because I simply get what you're saying, and I have nothing to add to it.)

     

    I also do not believe that the Buddha or Lao Tzu's messages (and especially not Chuang Tzu) promoted the idea of having such formal schools. And such schools did develop much later after their supposed existence anyway. Of course, schools always existed but they were different religions at that time.

     

    Just because they didn't promote schools, it doesn't mean that they would oppose them either. They just didn't bring future schools up, also because they had no idea that those schools would survive that far.

     

     

    So this is my view, and like you said to me earlier, you are still free to go about your way and believe this is your path. And maybe you are right. But that is not to say that people deterring you is not good advice either. We only give what we have experienced after all.

     

    Self-doubt is good advice to give to somebody who doesn't possess self-doubt. It is superfluous to give to someone who already possesses it. However, actually deterring somebody, is just being in the way. ...yet that is the only "wisdom" that most of this forum has to offer: "Don't seek enlightenment. Don't seek buddhahood. It only leads to fame and fortune. We already have a buddha, and one was quite enough. Let him die and stay forgotten."

  7. Posted

    I guess every last one of us here is a lizard-in-disguise or some other kind bloodthirsty aliens, bent on world domination and enslaving the human kind.

     

    I only watched the first 3 seconds of the video, but I'm guessing it's something along those lines.

     

     

    EDIT: After sparing a few minutes to look through their site a bit, it seems I was mistaken about the alien thing (but who can blame me, since that is one of the most popular conspiracy theories right now). Looks like TTB are just a plain evil, brainwashing, scamming organization...

     

    Well, "Evil Taoists" pretty much gives it away.

  8. Posted · Edited by Icedude

    I appreciate that but that's not what I am particulary asking about.

     

    It's simply an observation from when we spoke yesterday in a thread and I just gave up because all you would do is answer one out of every four questions.

     

    It's because these questions come from just one question. Imagine somebody coming home asking "What's for dinner? What kind of sausage is it? Did you buy spaghetti? I hope it's not spaghetti again. Do you know how sad that would make me feel?". What if you didn't make dinner, or you're making hamburgers? If I see a root to the problem, I'm going to focus on that instead of bothering with all the leaves.

  9. Posted · Edited by Icedude

    What peeps are saying is this.

     

    Yet you are the one asking the questions.

     

     

    What on earth do you really gain by having someone tell you how awkakened/enlightened you are?

     

    A definition. A title. A name.

     

     

    How can someone else do this for you?

     

    I don't know yet, but it's obviously possible, otherwise we wouldn't have buddhism or any definitions of enlightenment, if it's just something that somebody can claim to be. You're here because you believe it's possible, aren't you?

     

     

    Can you not see the flaws? They will never know anyway because they are NOT you. They would be lying to you and humouring you. But worst of all, they would actually believe they were telling you the truth.

     

    All you would gain is a certificate and an ego boost that would get you an illusion of authority. You would walk among charlatans...

     

     

    I guess that makes taoism and buddhism one big lie then, if it's just a matter of charlatans lying to charlatans, or falsely believing in them, ego boosting them and giving them an illusion of authority.

     

     

    Wouldn't you just prefer to not be a part of that?

     

    It's not a matter of what I prefer. It's a matter of if I already am or not.

    There are clear definitions for enlightenment - clear fetters to clearly not have. Ways of preceptions to possess. Enlightenment is something tangible. The only question is if somebody can tell or not. After I've gotten my diploma, I'm free to retreat back into my apartment and possibly never speak of it again. That's how "part of that" I want to be.

     

     

    If someone says you're in denial and you're not, what can you say?

     

    "Test me."

     

     

    If you decide that you're indecisive, which one are you?

     

    Decidedly indecisive.

    • Like 1

  12. Posted · Edited by Icedude

    Also whether opening a book and having it speak to you ... how much of an analogy is that? I assume it is a turn of phrase?

     

    Do you? ...because to me that sounds like yet another lame joke, put down in an extremely convoluted and insincere way: "Have you possibly maybe considered that you're psychotic? ...not that I'm saying that or anything." That's not testing me. That's you choosing to misinterpret me, thinking that as I want validation, all you need is to lie about offering it, and you can make a fool out of me. You don't even seem to believe in enlightenment, as you reckon monks wouldn't take askers seriously. ...so you come across as an atheist heckler.

     

    If you want an honest answer about what awakened means, you can check dictionaries. "Awakened" is a word that fits criteria. I can tell you that I'm a good chef, because maybe I'm that too, but it's useless unless it fits the criteria. Maybe all awakened people are good chefs too, but I wouldn't know, as I haven't read about that part yet. I only know that what I've read so far fits.

     

    I can read about the big bang, and understand the big bang, but that doesn't make me the big bang. However, if I'm happy, and I read about happiness, I understand that I'm happy, and that makes me realize that I was happy all along. ...or maybe I read about happiness and realize that I'm not happy. ...or maybe I read about happiness and that makes me happy while I'm reading it, or able to be happy later. Some people become awakened, and some people are already.

     

    It's pointless for you to try to decide if another person would let me in or not, because you're not that person. I very much doubt that these "Buddha energies", whatever they are, can be sensed through the internet. You're not even able to detect if I'm smiling or picking my nose right now, so don't act like you are.

     

    According to your culture, Buddha is unemployed. You'd put a McDonalds cap on him, take him to McDonalds, and he'd be a slow and weird cachier. That's the result of people "knocking people down a peg or two".

     

     

     

    So, out of all the questions there, if you feel unclear about the above one, you will ignore the others? I hope not, I think they are valid and good questions ... answering them might clear a lot of things up ?

     

    I feel like I'd be here giving you private lectures all day. You write far too many words.

     

     

     

    Besides ... how do you know you haven't already entered a temple and the testing has begun all ready. Do you want a test or just an agreement?

     

    Also, if it is a test of being aware or awake to life and forces ... surely you must realise the need for humour to play itself out (in all its forms; ironic, sardonic, etc, ... as it seems to need to do in life ) ... actually, I thought you were doing better before, that comment about tying the safety tape to the head was pretty good :D - but I guess something pissed you off - that it started to spread to other threads ? But people are going to joke around, dont take it to heart to much .... you did run out waving around a flag a bit :)

     

    The need for humor in this case, is the need to degrade me for being larger than you. It's disbelief. It's disrespect. It's you making clowns out of yourselves, and at this point, after 14 pages, I'm fed up with clowns. How much unbelief in the religion that you claim to have, can you guys possibly have?

  15. Posted

    Agreed ... have you considered any other sort of 'testing' ?

     

    Like what testing?

    See, I'm only answering this part, because I want to know whether or not I'm going to humor your questions any longer. Most likely not.

  16. Posted

    Your talent is that you're awake? So is everyone for like 16 hours a day.

     

    You probably mean awakened in a metaphorical way...then what have you "awakened" to? What did you realize which you hadn't known before? The content of that realization is more important than having realized it.

     

    What is your scriptural proof that you're pretty high up there as a holy person?

     

    Are you being sarcastic and kind of trolling everyone with this? It seems so to me.

     

    I ask these things honestly...not to prove you wrong, but to help you find your answers, and also get to know you more.

     

    Unfortunately it's not that easy. I don't know if other people managed to realize something that made them fully awakened at once. That seems unlikely, though. For me it happened over the course of many years, carrying with it understanding for everything I later read. I knew that I didn't think like anyone else, but I didn't think I was *that* special. I just had my own weird perception of things, that nobody else seemed to understand or agree with.

     

    I could copy and paste things I've read from the scriptures, and simply go: "I get this. I get this as well. I get all of this, and all of this, and this too." If I tell you that I understand something more than that, you're just going to say that as it's not in the scriptures, that just proves that I'm not awakened. I don't get *all* of the scriptures, because some of the scriptures are actually wrong. At least that's what I think at the moment. For instance, I'll get back to you if I transform into a lion, but I don't think that that's likely for anyone to do.

     

    Further, I don't think it's possible to formulate the full nature of the ultimate truth in a brief description. It would have already been done if that was the case. What to say differs from person to person, because it's actually doing away with misconceptions, and people have all completely different misconceptions. I'd have to discuss things with you, and make you understand the ultimate truth yourself, to prove my understanding of the ultimate truth, and that could apparently take lifetimes to do with a normal person, so "we'd be here all day" so to speak. It's not like I haven't tried to explain, but people don't get what I'm saying when I do "the brief version". I go too fast for them, and end up saying "ridiculous" things.

  17. Posted

    I thought we were making fun with you ???

     

    Yeah, well things got stale after a few days of mockery, and the mockery carried over into other threads, and you're so busy coming up with "clever" things to say, that very few of you actually came up with serious advice. I realized the comical side to it all even before I came here to this forum, and I'd like to move on to more serious territory now. Laughing at it won't make it go away.

     

     

    Perhaps such natural talents, no need for 'no teacher' (or a teacher) and 'transmission from your own mind' validation wont be given here ... at least without some type of a hint of a demonstration instead of just a declaration ... I mean , anyone can just say anything, cant they ?

     

    Sure: What exactly would you like me to demonstrate?

    ...

    See?

    I've been begging for a testing all this thread, to prove that I'm not just saying it, but you don't really know how to test me. I didn't expect you to either, but I figured that someone would at least know someone who knew how to test me.

    ...but I can actually call a few temples in America now, or visit a few closer temples, so I've got the testing bit taken care of, hopefully.

    See, it's not funny. Imagine that you're in an exclusive library, and every book you opened whispered "Chosen One...". That's not awesome, and it's not funny. That's actually really creepy. I am trying to come to terms with what I've got, but at this point books make me uncomfortable. They're just full of stuff that I already know, making them boring and creepy at the same time. the best outcome that I can imagine at this point, is it turns out that I'm not awakened at all, because that would actually be a relief.

     

     

    I guess it is a bit like that ... except the bakers, after their long study, apprentice ship, trial and error, own developed recipes, and all the other stuff that comes with being a baker .... just might want to taste your bread first ... before a new and unknown upstart baker waltzes in and asks for their acknowledgment and endorsement because ...... he says he is good at it.

     

    Yeah, so I'm asking to be tested. I've said that ten times over at this point, so what is it about that that you guys don't get? Instead you're telling me to make my own diploma, and after that you're telling me to get followers with it. What's wrong with you?

     

     

     

    I imagine you might get a more cynical or even hostile approach from a bakers guild or a temple than you do here. I imagine you might not even be let through the door.

     

    Can you see that just might be possible ?

     

    Why would I want to get through the door? Either they do tests or they don't do tests. If they don't let people who want to be tested through the door, then they don't do tests. If they get cynical or angry about it, then they don't even acknowledge that self-awakening is possible, so they don't do tests.

  19. Posted

    Hey, i'm with you mate, if "Form is Emptiness and Emptiness is Form", then realisation should come with a diploma, you know, to cover the 'form' side of the equation...

     

    What exactly is it that you're so furious over? Do you hate diplomas and the academic world that's associated with them? Did you become spiritual to "get away from it all"?

     

     

    Can you imagine how quite it would be here?

     

    Are you kidding me? This forum would be bustling with proved enlightened people educating non-enlightened people. ...but even if it was emptied by this new spiritual revolution, I'm sure that the mods would close the forum in complete satisfaction.

     

     

    What are your natural talents? What is the transmission you've gotten from your own mind?

     

    My natural talent is that I am awakened. I don't know exactly how awakened I am, as I'm still searching for my limits, but I'm apparently pretty high up there as a holy person according to the scriptures.

     

    I wouldn't exactly know how to formulate awakening into words better than Lao Tzu or buddhistic scholars did, and it's fairly complex stuff that would require awakening to fully understand. If I ever make an attempt at putting it into words, I imagine I'd do it in book form.

  20. Posted

    So, let me if I got this figured out.

     

    • First, you alienated yourself from the Muslims
    • Next, you alienated yourself from the Zen group
    • After that, you alienated yourself from the more traditional Buddhists
    • And now, you're working at alienating yourself from the 'Taoists'.

     

    Have you ever heard the one about the man who kept doing the same experiment, expecting to get different results?

     

    When a clear pattern like this emerges, the place to look for the causes is very close, it's at the next mirror.

     

    Aw, come on. Be nice.

    • Like 1

  21. Posted

    ..I dont know man, sounds hard...

     

    I got the diploma bit down - no worries.

    It's called something like a "record of mind transmission" that I have to get.

     

    It's kind of weird that you guys are making fun of me, thinking that "awakening is too mystical to get certified". Yes, there is a certain kind of transmission that occurs from teacher to student, which you're going to have to work for in a remote temple, but when you have natural talents like me, who don't need no teacher, you still get a transmission, but from your own mind. ...so I just need to get it validated - that's all.

     

    It's kind of like coming to a bakers forum and asking to get a working permit as a baker, and then get countless replies in return, from people who are just baking at home in their kitchens, mocking you for "wanting to show off". So most of you guys don't know, and that's fine. Just don't act like you have to compensate for it. You don't see me belittling you over not being awakened. Have some respect for people.

  22. Posted

    well as I like to say, if your going to talk the talk, then you also have to look the walk! :D

     

    And what adds to looking the walk, more than a diploma hanging on your wall?

    {other than beads, robes, shaved hair, funny hats and stuff}

     

    Obviously the answer is two diplomas!!!

     

    why not get a double diploma, or a degree, or your Masters, and a PHD?!?

     

    infact, get them in several different but related fields to increase your 'zone of authority' and to make sure interlopers and upstarts cant get away with questioning you.

     

    If you wanted a diploma rather than a degree or higher, because you don't want to waste that much time, well why even bother with a diploma? Here in Aus, and maybe elsewhere you can do a 'certificate' course over like 6 evenings! That still gives you authority over the unwashed masses. if they dare to speak up at one of your talks, you can just point to your certificate on the wall and say nothing!

     

    People will listen to how you answered without using words, and they will know you are wise!

     

    Trust me, its a win win situation!

     

     

    Gutei raised his diploma whenever he was asked a question about Zen. A boy attendant began to imitate him in this way. When a visitor asked the boy what his master had preached about, the boy raised his diploma.

     

    Gutei heard about the boy's mischief, seized him and took away his diploma with a knife. As the boy screamed and ran out of the room, Gutei called to him. When the boy turned his head to Gutei, Gutei raised up his own diploma. In that instant the boy was enlightened.

    When Gutei was about to die, he said to the assembled monks,"I received this awesome diploma from Tenryu. I used it all my life and yet could not exhaust it" and then he passed away. His diploma took up lumberjacking, and never looked back since.

    • Like 1