Uroboros

Existence or Life. Some "thing" exists. There are many "things" that exist.

Also, on the other end, Non-existence or Death.

Each of these in their most basic form is undeniable.

Even going into the states of emptiness, it is still a form of existence or non-existence.

Even non-existence exists, though.

I think I have gone too far into this.....Good place to stop. Hah

 

I wanted to know if you all know about a certain issue that I have been trying to figure out with pranayama.

I have been seeing that one of the hallmarks in doing pranayama is to get to 320 rounds of pranayama per day. Moreover, this is supposed to be pranayama with retention, particularly the 1:4:2 ratio with nadi shodana. In terms of that ratio, another hallmark is to reach 16:64:32 as the ratio.

This practice is supposed to last 3 months as per the process of nadi purification. However, when I did the math, a round of pranayam at that ratio would be 224 seconds. Multiplied by 320, that's 71680 seconds. There are only 86400 seconds in a day, which leaves a person with a little bit more than 4 hours left in a day (71680 is just 5 minutes and 20 seconds shy of 20 hours). Counting sleep and eating, along with washing one's ass, this appears impossible to fit into 24 hours.

My question is, am I misunderstanding this implication? Is 16:64:32 not practiced to that length, to 320 rounds per day?

I do not know enough to say anything about most of your questions. What I can say is that at that high a level, sleep probably isnt needed.

That is all I can contribute atm. I hope the more Pranayama knowledgable members come forth and share their wisdom!

Good questions, btw. When you practice the hold/ retention, do you utilize the full and empty?

I am glad that you took my advice:

 

 

and wish I had more time now to address these issues:

 

 

Time constraints were one of the reasons I had to stop posting before and are part of the reason I cannot post here in detail now, but I will refer you to:

 

Daxue

 

Zhongyong

 

These are the two of Zhuxi's Four Books that are most understandable to modern readers. The site where these versions are located is A. Charles Muller's excellent site:

 

Resources for East Asian Language and Thought

 

If I find time I will post more, thanks to exorcist_1699, both for starting this thread and for bringing it back to the surface again today.

Thanks, Zhongyongdaoist!

I will read those two books and see what I am ready to understand.

I also look forward to whatever else you decide to post.

I don't have much time right now, but to address these quickly:

 

 

There are many ways that it could be used, a standard way that one would begin is by using them as "doorways" to explore the energies and connect with them. On a level of magic, each of the trigrams have correspondences classes and categories in the world, from plants, animals, people, occupations, etc. Using these as a guide one knows what Trigram to use for any particular purpose and also ritual elements that can be used to connect. The Trigrams also have connections with the Nine Stars and the Nine Stars are important in Chinese magic. Jerry Alan Johnson gives traditional "hand seals" for each of the Trigrams and I have found these to be useful ways of connecting, but of course they are not necessary.

 

The Hexagrams themselves can be used to describe an existing situation, either by an analysis based on ones understanding or using divination to get a description, then a Hexagram representing the desired state can be chosen and the changing lines are worked with to create a change. As a cross cultural approach the figures of Geomancy are binary also and consist of four lines, they can be used to represent the "nuclear hexagram" of any hexagram giving you an inner doorway to a situation.

 

There is also an interesting series of illustrations in Jou, Tsung Hwa's The Tao of I Ching, which can be explored. The limitation on these things is ones knowledge, creative imagination and technical expertise.

 

 

This would require a much longer discussion, but to give a pointer that relates to to what I said above:

 

 

and refer you to my posts under:

 

Confucian Qi gong

 

I took my Tao Bums name, Zhongyongdaoist from the original Chinese of "The Doctrine of the Mean", Zhongyong.

What you have said regarding magic will require me to think on a bit more to have any useful questions or comments.

I did read the Confucian QiGong thread. Im reading the Doctrine of the Mean translation you shared.

It looks to be exactly what I am looking for. Both utilizing the I Ching as a means to cultivate the Proper Action.

I noticed that in the confucian methods they talk about Justice and Law. The Mean and the Way. Are these the same things?

What about Righteousness?

It seems to me that understanding these things are vital to practicing the path.

Thank you

While many people think that they can refine their qi better in deep cave or on high mountain, Confucian qigong practitioners definitely will tell you that it is among the crowd that our qi is best refined and upgraded.

 

A Chinses saying tells us the truth from another perspective : " While petty hermits hide in the wilderness , the real hermit hides among the crowd " ( ' 小隠隠于野, 大隠隠于市')

I have found this whole thread very interesting...Cultivating our selves, our minds and hearts instead of focusing on just the body.

Does this relate to the 5 spirits in chinese medicine?

The part that seems most unclear to me is how to cultivate and/or be Justice and the Way. Other texts mention Rightousness or Proper Action.

How would you even go about cultivating these things?

 

Excellent summary and more or less what I had in mind when I wrote this:

 

 

To learn to use the Yi Jing is to learn about the core of Lǐ, 礼, often rendered as "propriety". Proper action is action that is cosmogenic, and aims to promote harmony and restore healthy order, both in the individual and his/her environment. This is what being a Jūn​zǐ, 君子, the "Superior Man" of Wilhelm/Baynes, is all about. It is about living a life from ones personal center in relation to the Absolute.

 

Of course you can also use it for magic.

How would you use the I Ching for magic?

When studying the I Ching with the goal being Li, what would you reccomend someone focus on or keep in mind?

It's kind of astounding that anyone would object to a Women Cultivation Section. Women are still free to post about topics of special concern to their gender in the general area if they choose. But if they prefer to discuss among themselves (us guys are still free to listen in) what's the big deal?

 

Awhile back there was a thread where anybody could post questions but only teachers could answer. To my memory, nobody raised a ruckus.

 

Liminal

Personally, I have a desire to learn more about female specific cultivation. No matter how much someone may dislike it, men and women have different body structures and must do things differently. It just is.

I dont have a uterus.I dont have a vagina. I dont have the same kind of breasts as a woman. I dont menstruate. I cannot create a new life inside of me nor give birth.

I know plenty of people who do and can, though. Its half of what it means to be human, knowing nothing of that shows a lack of understanding about life.

What if I want to help a female cultivate or heal? Do I know the ways to go about that? How the paths differ and how they connect? How a female body utilizes energy differently then a man?

I know very little. I want to know more. I will read the womens cultivation threads, even if my participation is not wanted. I feel many male cultivators would benefit greatly from learning about where the paths differ based on gender.

Edit-

This is still male focused, though. It is me, a man, talking about what I can gain from women talking about female cultivation.

Perhaps that is part of the problem.

This is true of both genders....there are a lot of 'old' women walking around with chips on their shoulders towards men, and 'old' men walking around with similar chips towards women. I would hesitantly conjecture that if one at all holds a view that judges, stereotypes one whole half of the population, then one has work to do. If one notes that one holds strong views towards any specific subset of the human population at all, be it race related, gender related, religion related, then this indicates an illness of the mind.

 

These stereotypical conformist views have been past like meme-viruses around the planet since who knows when....The mind that thinks it knows....does not!

 

The empty answer is 'Know Nothing' - here lies some great health and well being

 

The full answers are endless.

 

If anyone here thinks that they know something special about someone else here, simply because that person has identified their gender to the board, then feel free to live in delusional thought constructs.

 

Me myself: I intend to winnow away at those damned imputed reifying fabrications....

My statements were not meant to imply that it does not go both ways. It does go both ways. All ways.

Nearly every person projects their views onto the world that just is. I like what you have posted, Songtsan

Since the topic of this thread is about how to make this place more female friendly and I have seen my fair share of gender bashing/ the kind of talk that would make this place seem unfriendly/ boys club to some women, I felt it was right to focus on men in my comment. Also, there are more men on TTB then women. Hence the whole discussion at hand.

This thread is a good example of why this forum has trouble. When it started it was about how to make this place more female friendly and welcoming. It shortly became about how male members are not doing anything wrong/ justification / arguments. That is not the kind of environment that is welcoming to people. Especially women. If I was a women and I saw how quickly a thread that was about helping the female members degraded into justification/ arguments, I would see how little respect and care is given and not come back.

On the flip side, Dawei created a section for womens cultivation. A woman has already posted a solid question. If none of the female practitioners, of which we have some excellent ones, comment, share or teach, then that is another problem to be dealt with at that time.

Well let her know we have opened one

 

http://thetaobums.com/forum/393-womens-cultivation/

 

 

I started it as a PPD so it was moderated like a PPD but it gets lost in the shuffle and no exposure for those lurking around. So now I've created it as its own area. Guests can see the area title if they come in but only members logged in will be able to get to read the threads.

 

Although it is in the regular forum area, the plan is to let it run more like a PPD with member(s) to moderator it. That will also help to keep the staff out unless there is something which really needs our involvement.

Excellent, Dawei!

I think having a place for female specific practices to be talked/ learned about could definitely benefit the people who are here and could potentially come here.

I also personally want to know about the female specific practices. Its a big gap in the mainstream qigong world. It should not be. There is much to learn on both sides of the coin.

How often do you see your gynecologist?

Did you try any TCM herbs for morning sickness when you were pregnant?

Have you practiced ovarian breathing lately?

Do you regulate your periods with the Deer exercise?

Did you accept or reject an epidural when you were in labor with your first child?

Do you feel the Mayan uterus adjustment practices have made you a more balanced... um... man?

How do you use the middle dantien to maintain healthy breasts?

What should you eat to avoid the symptoms of menopause?

 

Would you deem these and similar concerns sexist or moot, best let go of and forgotten?

There is a desire for this. I know my partner would be extremely interested in these topics. Heck, she may even join this forum if other female practitioners actually talked about and shared female oriented practices such as these. As of now, though, the things she needs to know and wants to know about, are not talked about.

There is a void when it comes to the female body and cultivation. You can pick up any qigong book and it will talk about men. Women, not so much.

Anywho, I fully support the creation a section just for female oriented practices!

On the topic of making this forum more female friendly...

I would agree with many of the statements that there needs to be a set of clear rules that are enforced. There is no need for any kind of hate or US vs THEM mentality in here. This is a place for people of all races, creeds, shapes, beliefs, genders, and anything else to come and share. To learn and grow. To find support in our pursuits of fringe paths.

At the same time, allot of boys on here could potentially gain something from self-inquiry into why they feel the way they do about women....for me personally, it goes back to my mother. I think many men project onto other women, what they truly feel about their mother.

Thats a whole different topic, though.

There is one channel I would like to know more about. The San Jiao (Triple Burner). Specifically its energetic functions. I have heard that it functions as our energetic digestion.

Anyone know more about that?

187

You have to understand the meaning of the places for the individual lines and how they relate to eachother as well as the core trigrams. There are multiple systems at work when casting a transforming hex; on one level, the whole hexagram changes. On another, the top and bottom trigrams change; on another the core trigrams change and finally, the lines relate to eachother individually. This is on top of the usual commentary. To understand the flow and the changes, one has to be familiar with the symbology of the core trigrams, and how these relate:

 

Creative (but also male and/or active)

Receptive (but also female and/or passive)

 

Wind (but also movement)

Fire (but also attachement)

Lake (but also happiness)

 

Thunder (but also shock)

Water (but also the unknown and danger)

Mountain (but also stillness)

 

The bottom trigram and the bottom core trigram relate to the past and/or the present. The top trigram and the top core trigram relate to movement and/or the future.

 

Let's take a look at this stuff in action:

 

I cast hexagram 37, Family, with a moving line on 4. My question was "What's a good question to use as an example on the internetforum?"

 

The reading of line 4, hex 37:

 

Six in the fourth place means:

She is the treasure of the house.

Great good fortune.

 

It is upon the woman of the house that the well-being of the family depends. Well-being prevails when expenditures and income are soundly balanced. This leads to great good fortune. In the sphere of public life, this line refers to the faithful steward whose measures further the general welfare.

http://www.wisdomportal.com/IChing/IChing-Wilhelm.html#37

 

The top trigram is wind, the bottom is fire. The central trigrams are fire (top) and water (bottom).

The top trigram becomes the creative, while the bottom remains fire; the central trigrams change from fire to creative (top) and from water to wind (bottom). So:

 

Wind (fire) and fire (water) become creative (creative) and fire (wind). The hex as a whole changes from 37 to 13. Hexagram 37 isn't just about family, but also about the internal relationships in any community. Hexagram 13 speaks of the gathering of people. As can be noted, the I Ching didn't just provide an answer to my question, but provided a commentary on what's happening and going to happen. On the whole, it commented that my actions are positive and are going to have a positive effect (on the taobums). We'll have to see about those creative forces affecting other folks though (that's what it says with the moving trigrams).

 

This is what you need to read when casting, not the texts for the lines. Those are comments pertaining to the situation, not the situation in itself, nor the movement. They provide clarity but aren't the core focus.

I have been working on learning more about the trigrams and how they relate/ intermesh. It is definitely helping in understanding the messages from the I Ching.

The biggest difficulty/ task for me at the moment is understanding how the yin and yang lines work together to create something. Just utilizing the lines to read/ feel the situation is tough.

Ok yes that makes sense. Stephen Karcher in his book Total I ching (Myths for Change) says the ji gua which he calls the 'Relating Figure' is not always the future, it can be one of number of things which are to do with how the subject (the questioner) relate to the primary hex.

 

eg.

 

- future potential

-over riding concerns

-a warning

-a goal

-a desired outcome

-a past situation which has brought you to the present situation

 

so you cannot rely on the ida that the primary hex leads in time to the transform hex. Its more subtle than that.

 

The best way, I think, to approach this is, to read the transform hex post, see what image(s) it evokes, then try to relate the key idea behind those images back to yourself or whoever it is you may be asking the oracle for. Try to feel what the questioner is bringing to the situation which might have an impact on how everything works out.

That is very helpful, Apech!

I will see if those interpretations help me connect with the message. I will also try what you recommend.

Thanks!

 

Yes, one can use an electronic microscope to hammer in a nail. But that's not its primary function. How to use it to see into the invisible is its primary function, and for it to function this way, you need to adjust a screw here, a lever there... One way to avoid having the I Ching reiterate to you what your subconscious is prompting your hand to transmit to the coins is to shake them in a metal container (this is traditional) so that the container prevents your personal micro-impulses from influencing the outcome. And, also traditionally, you can ask someone else to throw the coins for you, someone with no personal interested in the outcome you get.

 

All these, however, are precautions for the initial stages I think -- though I still use a metal container, because it has the eight immortals on it and is cool, and also to be on the safe side of my own unconscious -- but generally, once you have developed a relationship with the oracle, she will know how to overrule your impulses and give you the real answer no matter what you want or expect to hear -- even, if you are not asking the real question of the moment, an answer to the question you should have asked instead. This happened to me many times when I needed to know something important but didn't know I did and asked something unimportant. In hindsight it became crystal clear what the question I should have been asking had been. Now, if I get an answer I can't understand, I re-ask: what do I really need to concern myself with at this time? And then it makes sense.

 

Also, I've asked about things I definitely couldn't know about -- or got predictions about things I definitely couldn't know were coming -- so I have no reasons to believe I'm pulling the answers out of my own psyche. (Incidentally, I'm not one of those people who believe they make all the choices in the universe themselves, not one of the you-are-my-thoughts almighty gods of all-that-is... When I point a finger at the moon, I don't imagine I'm projecting the moon out of my finger.)

 

And to the OP: If you get too many changing lines, it's a sign that something is in disarray, that the qi of the moment is badly entangled -- either in the subject of inquiry at the moment, or in your own life at the moment. If I get more than two changing lines, I start looking around to see which areas of my life and environment, whether physical or non-, need uncluttering. Once some order is restored within and without, I ask again.

Interesting. I will start using a metal container to see if it helps.

Ah, yes. Disarray. There is quite a bit of that at the moment, hence my desire to understand how to go about working with it in the best manner.

Taomeow, what do you consider the transformed hexagram to be about?

Hello

I have been experiencing something lately and I wanted to share and see if anyone else has experienced it/ what it could mean.

Short background- got some food poisoning + exhaustion and have been resting since. In the process, my nose became sensitive and started to drain clear fluid often.

This is the main topic- lately my right nostril has become smaller/ closed. Like it is collapsing. My nose itself is also twisting/closing to the right.

The right channel has always been the most blocked, as well.

Anyone know of this kind of manifestation/ have experience it?

I feel I've already had them as a very young kid because I almost died several times. After that, I wondered if I was really me, or if my soul had passed and another soul had come to inhabit my body. After that, I was really scared of going mental at the age of 6. (probably not a normal fear for a young child)

 

In hindsight, I almost have the feeling the universe was trying to kill me.

I feel you. I felt for a long time that there was some diety/god/force that conspired for me to suffer and die.

heh, eventually figured out it was my mother! HAH!

Funny how our parents can act as mirrors for how we view life as a whole....

Sure, Skydog, I have had such tests.

One of the ones that changed my life lasted a period of 3 years. I was very sick and nothing was working. I went on a journey to find something that would help me heal/ heal me. That journey lasted about 3 years, during which I spent all my money, kept facing failure and doubt. Other people kept expressing their judgement's and desires about what I should be doing. I knew I had to keep trying. So, I did.

Eventually, I learned allot about what works and what doesnt. Why this works for this and not that, etc. It all paid off when I found a healer who was able to show me. help me heal with lasting affect.

Initiations, rites of passage, trials...these seem to be a part of life. Of being human. Knowing what we feel is right for us and doing that....may be one of the most powerful experiences we can have.

No, what do you mean by not so accurate? Can you explain a bit more.

Meaning that the situation at hand being divined did not develop in any way like the developing hexagram.

The original one was spot on. The one that was made from the changing lines, not so much.

Make sense?

Sometimes when I do a divination, I feel that the transformed hexagram is not so accurate. Actually, a few times the transformed hexagram was way off. The current one was not, though

Has anyone else had this experience?

If anyone has any specific questions about meridian theory (經絡學) I would be glad to try to field them. I have been a professor of Chinese medicine for 19 years and I teach the meridians course at our college (along with fundamentals, mental emotional disorders, ethics, history, Chinese language and physical culture).

 

One thing to keep in mind when considering meridians is to get the images with lines connecting points out of your head. Everything that isn't an internal organ is meridian. Your arms and legs do not have meridians on them, they are your meridians. We know from ancient texts dating to the Zhou Dynasty that meridian theory pre-dates point theory. While a minor point it can be significant cognitively when we learn points first and meridian afterwards. I see that most often people try to approach it like connect the dots, but it is actually the opposite. More like learning river systems then identifying where the towns are.

 

This brings us to points and the discrepancies about point location. Most often we only look at the first half of point location, especially if we are not thinking about needling. The description of the point location in terms of surface anatomy is only half the information. You need to them look at the depth and angle of insertion of the needle to see the location of the actual point itself, which is not on the surface, rather buried deep into the tissue of the meridian. Two different texts may consider two different entry points for the needle and so not give the same surface location. As well, there is the issue of cellular individuality, we are all unique and you always need to palpate and locate the point. No matter what the texts say, your acupoints will be where they are and you have to poke at them to find them.

 

I am glad to see people keen to learn.

Excellent points, Kevin. It is easy to forget that the channels are not so....contained.

Palpation is an art that is not learned and practiced enough, I feel.

I have a book called Applied Channel Theory In Chinese Medicine by Wang Ju Yi, have you read it?

Are there any books you recommend as vital to learning the channels?

The coins have two faces, one is 2 pointd the other is 3 points.

You toss them an you count the points.

 

2+2+2=6 big Yin transforms to Yang

2+2+3=7 small Yang still needs to mature

2+3+3=8 small Yin still needs to mature

3+3+3=9 big Yang transforms to Yin

 

if you have:

6,6,7,8,9,7

this means:

 

starting transformation hexagram 53

__ stays the same

__ will turn to - -

- - stays the same

__ stays the same

- - will turn to __

- - will turn to __

 

ending transformation hexagram 26

__

- -

- -

__

__

__

 

"Infiltrating" leads to "Accumulating Wisdom". Anyway it is a process, a dynamic flow of energy, not a static calculation.

I just invented these numbers without tossing any coins but maybe Yi Jing is trying to say something to me

Since the odds are likely with the coin method that you will get changing lines, do you consider the related hexagram to be valid in all divination's?

When looking at the text for each changing line, do you look at all of changing lines? If not, how do you decide?

Trunk,

Is the SoHam mantra done vocally on exhale or is it done mentally? Another way I have heard is hearing it in the inhale and exhale.

It is one I keep hearing solid teachers go back to...

Thinking about the upper and lower centers. Awareness seems to be located in the UTT. Would merging our awareness into the LTT be a mixing of the two energies/ centers? I remember reading that in a meditation book, somewhere...

Hello, all!

I have a question for those who practice divination with the I Ching, especially those who utilize the 3 coin method.

When you get mostly, or all transforming lines, how do you go about utilizing them?

edit-

When looking to the text for each changing line, how do you decide which one/s to go with?

In the book Healing with Form, Energy and Light by Tenzin Wangyal Rinpoche, in the section on Tantra he talks about the Tigle.

The various aspects of Tantra Center work are the Horse, Rider, Path and Armor.

The Horse is the Lung/ Prana. The Rider is the Tigle, a sphere of light that is seen/ visualized. The Path is made of the various Channels. The Armor is the Sacred Syllable used.

The Tigle also represents the mind or consciousness. He says- the Horse is blind, the Rider lame.

In this book and Tibetan Healing Sounds ( which I recommend) there are various color associations with the chakras/ centers.

Either it is going to be luminosity or its going to be a specific color.

White/ Third Eye, Red/ Throat, Blue/ Heart, Red/ Navel are the specific colors that the books advise.