rookie

A collection of beliefs that one identifies with, completely fabricated, quite often unconciously.

Although I am not very good at it at this point there is a system that I stumbled upon that describes the interplay of the energies of the five elements. Keeping them balanced=all good. Unbalanced=problems that are usually sensed in the mental-emotinal realm first but can progress to physical symptoms or illness of some kind. There is an exceptional book by Giles Marin "Five Elements, Six Conditions" that goes into this in detail. There is a creation cycle where one element feeds another, and a controlling cycle that can throttle back the energy of an element that is out of balance. There is a formula for too much anger for example, or depression, etc. I will not go into details here because there are probably other members that know a whole lot more about it thatn I do. I recomend the book though.

Ok, so the body is a machine, responding to the enviornment according to physical laws. Next level?

Gossamer, I hope you take this opportunity to do something different. There is a great deal of support for you here and now. But if you do the same old thing, what can change?

good question There are already programs that reprogram themselves. But these are still programs running on a computer. Take away the hardware and what is left? I wasn't intending to get esoteric with that one, so the normal laws that apply to physical objects that have mass. If you want ot add some special knowledge you have about chi or something else, go ahead.

nice I should say, in what ways are you like a machine..........responding according to some set of laws, or rules, or according to a program (with a computer also being a machine) Machines can generate chaotic patterns. By the way, I do not believe we are machines, but we are mechanical in ways.....sometimes.

When I sit, my intention is to just be with what is. Sometimes there is silence, sometimes not.

I try to get outdoor exercise. My favorite is snowshoeing. A good workout at the gym every day. Healthy diet. One thing that can really help me is maintenence and or repairs on cars. Takes time, physical work, mental effort to figure things out, care in doing things right, patience because I will make mistakes sometimes and just roll with it and keep on going to the goal. The end result is a feeling of accomplishment, saving some money vs a mechanic bill, and having taken your mind off whatever is getting you down.

To distill it further.....I am saying just be with the experience you are creating. That is authentic. It can and will change. But it is just experience. So only real in the moment, then it is gone and another reality appears...continuously changing.... But this isn't you, or me, it is just what's appearing in the moment I am not theorizing here. This is experience. I would really like to get some discussion along this line, but kept in the realm of experience so not to get stuck in the mind.

ok this is fun I do have to state the definition of phony I am using (may not be the best word) is trying to repress what you are really feeling. You are not being honest with yourself first and formost. I would say "be what you are" meaning don't loose touch with your feelings even if they don't measure up your expectations or desires. I am not talking about absolutes in this conversation, but that appears to be what you are alluding to. Any personality traits are in fact "phony" when used with this definition. Yes, from the absolute state anything is ok. this sounds really funny man, but I'm not even sure I know what you mean. You may have just delivered one of the worlds best insults and I don't even know it care to clarify that?

har har har that is so right on I like sardines but livin on them, wow, not fun after a few days hoep you guys are wrong....

yep, so there is a level of programming, or training that can be done for the automatic responses. I would say this happens for the habitual responses in the mental/emotinal complex as well. New habits can be formed. Then you have new automatic responses. Still a machine, albiet a programmable one. Other levels? So is this you? this machine?

yes, my definition of phony is closer to "trying to appear happy and cheerful when you are not feeling it". That is just not good for you, and is not honest either. I agree with what you are saying using your definition of phony. These parts of oneself that generate the negative behaviors are not the real you (or me). They are the mechanical part. no problem, I was addressing one's honesty with oneself. And the main topic was about being civil, which I agree with Ian, I'm not sure I understand this sentence. If you are saying "what is real is aliveness", or living, and what's not to like about that, I agree. Thanks for saying that. I am hoping to get a discussion into that level through the "mechanicalness" topic.

Mine is not an existential question about what is "real" When I say be real, that is be honest with yourself first. It doesn't mean if you feel like crap for some reason you take it out on anyone.

I'm not advocating blasting people indiscriminately. I am pointing out that phoniness happens a lot when people think that they should be nice, or need to be percieved as "spiritual" or a good budist, taoist, or whatever. My personal opinion is that the value of a board like this lies in people being real. Ideas being exchanged, discussed, challenged, this is good. You will find that I have never resorted to calling people names, and will not. So be real dude. If you're an ass, be a real ass If you're a saint, great, be that, but be real. Then maybe you can change, but you surely won't if you put on a phony face.

I'm not interested in reading Gurdjieff or any quotes, etc... But I would like to know what you think, you know, from your own experience, not some theory or theoretical discussion. So what have you found to be true in your experience?

defer to the sitg

what are the reasons one would go to college?

OK, I am really agianst this. It is far better to be neagative, if that is what you are feeling, than phony I have a true life story about budists constipated on their inability to be real and deal with real life because they were afraid to be percieved as negative Just be real for god's sake no slam on real budists probably a wannabe problem but I do appreciate yoda's sense of humor I just have never had that it is what it is

not sure what this means...but I'm curious????

There is a way to give your friends feedback without undressing them publicly. Compassion is a part of friendship, yes?

OK, so without the body. That would be a more common way of thinking about it. The natural way would seem to just be the evolution of conciousness.

Self knowledge is it. Everything else is in support of that.

Education is most valuable in exposing one to ideas and learning to think. Knowledge can be had but using it isn't learned in school. In my profession, all engineers have the same basic education within a field. But the ability to use it has very little correlation to grades or level. BSEE, MSEE but I really loved mathematics. If I didn't have a family to support I would have gone into mathematics