rookie

yes very good point. If you are not interested in fighting or sparing, then keep it simple and get what you are looking for out of it. There is a lot of big talk in this thread and on this board, but to use taiji as your first line of defense as a martial art in a real life fighting situation is, well, let's just say "advanced" LOL It is another topic but there are mental aspects of fighting that are far more important than all these subtle moves and techniques. When this is in order only a small toolbag is needed. And I am not talking tournament sparing with rules or in your club. When the rubber meets the road in real life what is between the ears matters most.

JUst reading the topic "Avoiding Reincarnation" asks the question "so you want to avoid this?" Now I am not saying anyone in particular, just whoever whould want to avoid this world, this life. Even though your mind may be full of stuff, this, right here, this now, this is it. Wanting or trying to avoid this is just more mind stuff, more manipulation of experience in the mind.

gold... I really like how you said that. It seems that as long as one is looking with the mind and in the mind, that is all that will be found. More mind content, more drama, story,...... whatever one believes and wants to see they will see.

back to the question of increasing jing, has anyone yet mentioned pulsing or rubbing the point just below ball on the center of the foot? I forget what it is called. Also, if you aregoing to, blow your load before 11pm local time since the 11-1am is the time of natural jing production. This is from a true daoist lineage holder raised in the tradition (sorry guys if I offended anyone}. He also said that even thinking about sex lustfully is a loss of energy. Just passing this on.

000, well I guess you probably got a lot more than you asked for here LOL Anyway here is my two cents. Forget everything you have heard here. Since you are a beginner, just go and check it out. If you like what you see, go on with it. If not, then move on. Just don't sign any contracts.

stress-relax, like exercise then rest or get a massage this is a natural rythm but taking the psychological stress out is best handled by not creating it, so find the process and then a way to break it

why did you leave?

Complexity exists in the mind, as an assesment or judgement. What is complex to one mind is simple to another.

Where does this complexity exist?

nac, it seems you enjoy the complex. It's ok, sure. Is it necessary for spiritual development? no, I don't think so. In fact it can be quite a distraction. How attached are you to it? That is probably all that matters.

This is a contradiction and missconception. Maybe you should say what your definition of enlightenment is.

I think the key here is "once this is realized that will happen" does not give a formula. Sounds more like an effect after the fact. It is not mechanical. Nothing in conciousness is really like that. Each persons realization is unique.

Sounds like you are doing just fine on that LOL Consider this. Reality is what it is. Your egos version of it is just a self sustaining drama or story. There are plenty of signs for anyone that might pay attention that will poke holes in your little world

So, did anyone else get that this Ingram guy has a huge ego? The beginning of the book is so full of "I" that it was a real turn off. He also makes it sound mechanical, do this to get that. A story like that is just what the ego needs LOL

Well since this is already used up, LOL, I wish this was the second post. And please take this the right way, but....... Can someone add the first couple of lines of TTC?

That seems to be true, until one discovers that some are found by the truth without searching for it or even just "opening oneself up". But the opening oneself, or seeing through, or whatever is common to these practices, sure.

They are not the same. For one thing all christian methods start with the belief in a God out there and a me here. Comparing all the large and small differences is not interesting from here. Are you more interested in comparing religions, or realizing truth? All religions are a cloak, a tool, mostly missused. The thing that they have in common is they are both methods infused with a belief system. How do these come about? Someone has realized something and tries to communicate it in words. It always falls short. These can be helpful pointers, but it is not truth.

The results of this inquiry can be very freeing and happy at times, yet very stark at other times. It depends mostly on the perspective one is operating from at the time

Thank you That is a very good point to bring up. The kind of "unhappiness" that I point to is such a common and natural event, and it seems a recurring event, that I don't think it prejudices anyone if I mention it from my own experience. If you really believe that would hinder one with prejudice then you would have to live in complete isolation to never be exposed to anyone elses ideas to keep from being "prejudiced". Instead, looking into anything and everything is the way to do it. Your own nervous system has prejudiced you in ways you may never uncover just to be able to survive and interact in this world. But maybe you will What you are suggesting is a necessary practice and really the one that is most widely known, but only half the story as seen from here. The other side is the dismantling of the conditioned beliefs, prejudices, unconcious assumptions and motivations, and so on. These are the things that will continue to get in the way of the direct experience you point to. It is like pulling the weeds fron the garden, going all the way down to get the whole root, otherwise the weed returns a few days later. The inquiry part does require effort. This can be a problem from here because sometimes it becomes a project, and the egoic self image can grab it and try to claim responsibility of progress for itself LOL It does seem to be the best use of the mind though, using the mind to find its own limitations and illusions. As wierd as this may sound it really can work out that way. Also, one may be able to "suspend ones prejudices and beliefs" as you suggest, and this may allow for direct clear seeing of "What IS" as you describe. But without inquiry, without the looking into what is arising within oneself again, then these weeds will probably never go away or even slow down. SO I agree with you sir, but I think it is half the story. And from what is seen here, this inquiry is usually not done enough. Thanks for your comment An after thought.....there may be some very advanced ones, or very pure ones who have never had to do any of this "weeding" of their conditioning to be able to realize the truth continuously and effortlessly, but I do not know any, and I'm not even sure if I have know any stories of such.

that is a very evasive answer I do not remember anything in "the book" relating to the tao being created you sound like some sort of snooty elitist intellectual what does "the book" say about that?

So the question here is can you do anything? But the presumption is there is a you, so that must first be determined for the first question to be answered meaningfully. Now we can have fun, play around, and enjoy the interaction, all good Experiments are very good, especially if they are experiential and not just a thought experiment. These can be quite fun and surprising as well disturbing at times. But this is the most fundamental and important question there is. So it does deserve serious consideration. It is taken seriously here. It is found that to distinguish illusion, creations of the mind, from that that is always there regardless of the creations of the mind, is a process of reduction. Retreat from untruth-- Richard Rose Find out what you are not and discard that--- Nisargadatta This finding contradictions is really the best use of logic, and about its only good use in search for ultimate truth. This is another topic of serious inquiry if one is so inclined. There is willingness here to enter into conversations with others who are also serious in their inquiry. I am going to point out a common trap. One cannot agree their way to the truth. It must be discovered experientially. Only then is it known. Because someone else says something and it sounds true, or sounds good, or it is the prevailing belief within a particular group, that does nothing for you if you are not making the discovery within. What ones realized truth is needs to stand up to scrutiny. So I reply to Kate here, no, the goal here is not happiness, but realization of the truth. Sometimes that makes the "you" or "sense of self" unhappy. Especially when it starts to see that it is, well, a fiction. But this can be looked into as well. This is all I have energy for at this late hour, but I would be pleased to continue a serious inquiry with anyone so inclined.

"The Tao was created"..... are you serious? by whom? or what was the tao created? This is probably just a poor choice of words, but let's wait and see....

ok good example who or what did it? can there be certainty that because the body was involved that is was "you" or could this be another example of some function of the mund/brain claiming responsibility? how can one be sure? so the body can be involved in doing although the you that you normally consider to be you but really can't be truely you because the you are not concious of it LOL that was too fun! LOL I am not going to be serious about this right now....

Yes it sometimes helps me to talk it out as well. There is a kind of thinking, if I can call it that, or maybe it is perception without thinking, that brings a movement into a different space.....a different kind of perception, away from or out of the normal belief system that the "me" operates from. It is from this space that various aspects of this can be seen. Another thing I have seen time and again is that trying or practicing too hard can become a act of the "personal will", where the self-fabricated "me" is trying to have control, which from this other perspective is seen not to exist. In terms of using the rational mind in normal thinking, questioning the beliefs, and contemplation, it has been useful to use it to collect and consider pieces of evidence that do not fit the normally assumed paradigm. These are usually ignored because the do not fit. But look for those. Look on the fringes of perception. Look at evidence that goes againt "common knowledge". A lot of this is comong out of the normal scientific community lately. Devise your own experiments to challenge your beliefs in particular area. It seems that breaking down the tightly held beliefs, about the self in particular, help make one "suseptible to grace". Cultivate the feeling of "wierdness" or "strangeness" ......that is often accompanied by percieving something that doesn't fit the "common knowledge paradigm" you have been living with. These are like naturally occuring koans....maybe LOL

When things like this are discussed face to face it is hard enough. If it breaks down into an intellectual exercise it is meaningless. Either it is experienced, and then it makes sense, or it will not make sense at all to the mind. There seem to be many trap doors or worm holes that can take one there, alas if only for a while before the conditioned response-reaction takes over again. Here is one for you. You don't do anything, ever. But things are done. It is just this little tyrant you have created in your pre-frontal cortex that decides to claim the action after the fact and actually believes in its own existance. The problem with discussing this here is that either you already get it and then this can just be poetry or you do not and it will sound like nilist bullshit or non-dual psychobable. In one sense it is very brave to post about this. In another, it is foolish.