DDJ 40
Greetings DaoBums:
This thread is to discuss and explore DDJ 40 its translation and implications. I hope to go through the different versions of the chapter, explore the conventional translations why they might be correct, and perhaps discuss places where alternate translations are more appropriate or should be considered. I would also like to explore the surrounding chapters to discern the flow, if there is one, from the preceding chapter, into this one, and flowing on to the next.
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From the Wang Bi: ( I think? ) obtained from Ctext.org.
反者道之動；弱者道之用。天下萬物生於有，有生於無
The Henricks book with the MWD does not contain chapter 40. This book claims to have the oldest extant version of the compiled DDJ. 180ish BCE TAQ ( the latest beginning ).
daoisopen.com has a comparison chart. It claims the following additions and differences in the MWD B. MWD A is mostly incomplete.
反也者道之動也；__ __者道之用也。天下之物生於有，有__於无
The same comparison chart claims to have the characters from another version predating the Wang Bi, the Guodian. This collection is on bamboo with only a small fraction of the chapters of the DDJ. But its dating per wikipedia is approx 300 BCE, also TAQ presumably. Here is how the comparison chart renders it with the differences compared to the Wang Bi emphasized. The -- indicates a missing character, as opposed to a __ missing character with a blank space.
返者道--動也；弱者道之用也。天下萬物生於有，有生於亡 (edit: these characters are not accurate and have ben corrrected later in the thread) ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Here are three different translations into english obtained from yellowbridge.com Legge: The movement of the Dao
By contraries proceeds;
And weakness marks the course
Of Dao's mighty deeds. All things under heaven sprang from It as existing (and named);
that existence sprang from It as non-existent (and not named). Suzuki: "Homeward is Reason's course,
Weakness is Reason's force." Heaven and earth and the ten thousand things come from existence, but existence comes from non-existence. Goddard: Retirement is characteristic of Dao just as weakness appears to be a characteristic of its activity. Heaven and earth and everything are produced from existence, but existence comes from nonexistence. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Thank you, I look forward to working through this and learning a lot together.
返者道--動也；弱者道之用也。天下萬物生於有，有生於亡 (edit: these characters are not accurate and have ben corrrected later in the thread) ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Here are three different translations into english obtained from yellowbridge.com Legge: The movement of the Dao
By contraries proceeds;
And weakness marks the course
Of Dao's mighty deeds. All things under heaven sprang from It as existing (and named);
that existence sprang from It as non-existent (and not named). Suzuki: "Homeward is Reason's course,
Weakness is Reason's force." Heaven and earth and the ten thousand things come from existence, but existence comes from non-existence. Goddard: Retirement is characteristic of Dao just as weakness appears to be a characteristic of its activity. Heaven and earth and everything are produced from existence, but existence comes from nonexistence. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Thank you, I look forward to working through this and learning a lot together.
Greetings DaoBums:
This thread is to discuss and explore DDJ 40 its translation and implications. I hope to go through the different versions of the chapter, explore the conventional translations why they might be correct, and perhaps discuss places where alternate translations are more appropriate or should be considered. I would also like to explore the surrounding chapters to discern the flow, if there is one, from the preceding chapter, into this one, and flowing on to the next.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From the Wang Bi: ( I think? ) obtained from Ctext.org.
反者道之動；弱者道之用。天下萬物生於有，有生於無
The Henricks book with the MWD does not contain chapter 40. This book claims to have the oldest extant version of the compiled DDJ. 180ish BCE TAQ ( the latest beginning ).
daoisopen.com has a comparison chart. It claims the following additions and differences in the MWD B. MWD A is mostly incomplete.
反也者道之動也；__ __者道之用也。天下之物生於有，有__於无
The same comparison chart claims to have the characters from another version predating the Wang Bi, the Guodian. This collection is on bamboo with only a small fraction of the chapters of the DDJ. But its dating per wikipedia is approx 300 BCE, also TAQ presumably. Here is how the comparison chart renders it with the differences compared to the Wang Bi emphasized. The -- indicates a missing character, as opposed to a __ missing character with a blank space.
返者道--動也；弱者道之用也。天下萬物生於有，有生於亡 (edit: these characters are not accurate and have ben corrrected later in the thread) ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Here are three different translations into english obtained from yellowbridge.com Legge: The movement of the Dao
By contraries proceeds;
And weakness marks the course
Of Dao's mighty deeds. All things under heaven sprang from It as existing (and named);
that existence sprang from It as non-existent (and not named). Suzuki: "Homeward is Reason's course,
Weakness is Reason's force." Heaven and earth and the ten thousand things come from existence, but existence comes from non-existence. Goddard: Retirement is characteristic of Dao just as weakness appears to be a characteristic of its activity. Heaven and earth and everything are produced from existence, but existence comes from nonexistence. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Thank you, I look forward to working through this and learning a lot together.
返者道--動也；弱者道之用也。天下萬物生於有，有生於亡 (edit: these characters are not accurate and have ben corrrected later in the thread) ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Here are three different translations into english obtained from yellowbridge.com Legge: The movement of the Dao
By contraries proceeds;
And weakness marks the course
Of Dao's mighty deeds. All things under heaven sprang from It as existing (and named);
that existence sprang from It as non-existent (and not named). Suzuki: "Homeward is Reason's course,
Weakness is Reason's force." Heaven and earth and the ten thousand things come from existence, but existence comes from non-existence. Goddard: Retirement is characteristic of Dao just as weakness appears to be a characteristic of its activity. Heaven and earth and everything are produced from existence, but existence comes from nonexistence. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Thank you, I look forward to working through this and learning a lot together.
