Spirit Ape Posted November 17, 2008 http://hk.youtube.com/watch?v=H5uFpNIIX_c http://hk.youtube.com/watch?v=8NGk7bf38e8&...feature=related http://hk.youtube.com/watch?v=w7vpNipX0jg&...feature=related http://hk.youtube.com/watch?v=plhT-su7mHM&...feature=related ENJOY! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
YMWong Posted November 17, 2008 Totally unrelated to Daoism. This seems to be the same group now posting here at TTB. Hong Kong is filled up with these (self-made) "daoists" who (falsely) claim Maoshan-Wudang-Whathaveyou lineages that have been passed to them during sceance. They have little-to-nothing to do with actual daoism and simply make a living filling a gap in many people's life. When this is done without negativity, it is a (commercial) service like many others. YM Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Starjumper Posted November 17, 2008 http://hk.youtube.com/watch?v=H5uFpNIIX_c Once I made a set of four swords for a circus performer's act. They looked sharp from a little distance and at the end of the act the performer used one to cut a watermelon, but they weren't sharp. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
r.w.smith Posted November 17, 2008 Some of this stuff is really good. Of course there are fakes out there, but please dont think all have nothing to offer. These kinds of invulnerability skills are easily obtained in most asian countries if you know what your looking for. From my experience it only takes a few minutes to transfer this energy to another. usually the master will recite a mantra over some water & have you drink,then woolaahhh time to test your newly accuired skills. The downside is most of the time the power will only stay in your body for a few months,or in some cases weeks. it all depends who you see & the masters level. no need to spend years meditating. Please dont confuse these practices with things like ironshirt,qigong, etc. they are very different. Qigong uses your own energy & takes much more effort to build. Where as most of these systems usually involve putting somekind of undesired entity inside or close by for instant results. Believe it or not, You have been warned. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
YMWong Posted November 17, 2008 Some of this stuff is really good. Of course there are fakes out there, but please dont think all have nothing to offer. These kinds of invulnerability skills are easily obtained in most asian countries if you know what your looking for. From my experience it only takes a few minutes to transfer this energy to another. usually the master will recite a mantra over some water & have you drink,then woolaahhh time to test your newly accuired skills. The downside is most of the time the power will only stay in your body for a few months,or in some cases weeks. it all depends who you see & the masters level. no need to spend years meditating. Please dont confuse these practices with things like ironshirt,qigong, etc. they are very different. Qigong uses your own energy & takes much more effort to build. Where as most of these systems usually involve putting somekind of undesired entity inside or close by for instant results. Believe it or not, You have been warned. I am not sure who you are warning and for what reason. I personally don't care if this is *fake* or not, as it is totally irrelevant to what I am saying. I also don't care about learning to withstand a knife cut even if it was real and, again, find that all these performances has nothing to do with actual Daoism. YM Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
HupGerk Posted November 17, 2008 LOL! So this makes me wonder, if a stranger were to show up with his own set of Emersons...would they let him do the cutting...? HG Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
r.w.smith Posted November 17, 2008 Ymwong,Are you trying to tell me that there are no daoist rituals for this kind of thing ? Come on now please dont say such things, Your not dealing with fools. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ryan T. Posted November 17, 2008 I just don't understand the point of these types of exhibitions. It reminds me of the Sufi story of the student who went of to train with another master and after years of training returned to his original master. The two were about to cross a lake when the student flew over to the island they were headed to. The master paid for his passage on the boat and traveled across the lake. The student didn't understand why the master hadn't used his skills/powers to cross the lake. The master asked the student if the whole purpose of his training was to save a few coin. It seems to me that those that think this type of demonstration is impressive are searching from something different than what I am searching for. Plus, I think the the videos are bs. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Mak_Tin_Si Posted November 17, 2008 Enjoyed. Thank you for sharing. Luk Yam San Gung is one of the branch that is popular in Hong Kong now that does not claim themselves to be in Taoism officially, but realistically they are in Taoism because they are using Taoism's fu (charms) which is the yellow paper written with symbols or words to create different effects such as healings, channeling and many others. Realistically and historically speaking, Luk Yam San Gung is an off-shoot side branch of Taoism. It is originated from Mao-Shan Sheung Ching 茅山上清宗 but then some of the people came out and formed this branch which they do not call themselve Taoist anymore. A real taoist shall have both the Taoism's power 道法 and ethics with theories 德行. In the Dragon Tiger mountain formed by Jeung Dao Ling in the 220BC, there is a poem in the side of the big temple saying : 道功龍虎伏, 德重鬼神欽 meaning when your Tao (the power or energy) is high, you could even command the tiger and dragon those who are very mighty. When you ethics are high, you gain respect from god and ghost. This have conclude what a Taoist need to be a good Taoist. The Luk Yam Sun Gung practitioners focused on the performance, but not on the ethics. You could see from what they do with the knife and speaking. The reason why they have been very happy with the knife testings game is because the way they like to promote in the 1960s. What they do is to write the Taoism fu (charms) with the sword finger onto a knife to makes the blade dull for cutting human only and then the knife will be chopped onto the human. This method is recorded in Taoism scripture, the master one called Do Jong (Taoism Canon) 道藏 . The symbols are three to four words, simple and easy to learn. What makes you understand when you cut yourself with a knife or razor? No matter what you do, if your training in ethics of Tao is not good, your taoism power is just limited to a certain level which do not benefit you in any way. By sticking your mind in the knife-cutting and self-chopping game, you may get into a fatasy but slowly loosing the truth of Taoism. Luk Yam San Gung could not be compared to the real Taoism because it is not complete, because the system does not include something that brings people to the ethics and morality training which help people in life. Mo Leung Tin Juen Mak Tin Si http://hk.youtube.com/watch?v=H5uFpNIIX_c http://hk.youtube.com/watch?v=8NGk7bf38e8&...feature=related http://hk.youtube.com/watch?v=w7vpNipX0jg&...feature=related http://hk.youtube.com/watch?v=plhT-su7mHM&...feature=related ENJOY! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
zanshin Posted November 17, 2008 The sword trick works because you need to pull it across to cut flesh, but if you push straight down it will cut the vegetable but not flesh, you can demonstate this to yourself slicing a cucumber onto your thumb with a kitchen knife it will bounce off unless you make a sawing motion then it will cut. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Mak_Tin_Si Posted November 17, 2008 By prediction, or saying things that one have not prooven is called Mong Yue 妄語 which means false speech. It is a rule of the five commandment in Taoism. Therefore we never say anything that we have not tried ourself as a taoist because you maybe wrong. That is why taoist have to "sau gai" 守戒 to avoid bad-mouthing or false speech that may create bad karma and arguments from the others. Imagine what happen if you say this in the forum where all the Luk Yam Sun Gung people gather up? do you think they want to chop you for a test instead? hahaha! I am joking, peace be with you. Mo Leung Tin Juen The sword trick works because you need to pull it across to cut flesh, but if you push straight down it will cut the vegetable but not flesh, you can demonstate this to yourself slicing a cucumber onto your thumb with a kitchen knife it will bounce off unless you make a sawing motion then it will cut. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
zanshin Posted November 17, 2008 I'm sorry did not phrase that well, I certainly would not want anyone to hack down as hard as they could with their sharpest knife. I have a friend who is an Iaido (Japanese sword) practitioner and does the trick cutting cucumber or watermelon on someone's body or neck, he does not claim to have magical powers but explains it is a trick in the cutting motion of the sword. I would not try anything so dramatic as there is definitely skill involved also, but realized I do the trick a little too while cutting vegetables onto my thumb and my son asked how I can do this and not cut my hand- my thumb would be gone if it was magic or qi powers. Peace to you Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Mak_Tin_Si Posted November 17, 2008 Oh, just to add-on, the Luk Yum San Gung does not claim that being chopped is a magical thing, they say it is their "ability" only. So most people may have this in them too. They are just trying to show you that you will have this "ability" of being chopped. So nothing too magical. I'm sorry did not phrase that well, I certainly would not want anyone to hack down as hard as they could with their sharpest knife. I have a friend who is an Iaido (Japanese sword) practitioner and does the trick cutting cucumber or watermelon on someone's body or neck, he does not claim to have magical powers but explains it is a trick in the cutting motion of the sword. I would not try anything so dramatic as there is definitely skill involved also, but realized I do the trick a little too while cutting vegetables onto my thumb and my son asked how I can do this and not cut my hand- my thumb would be gone if it was magic or qi powers. Peace to you Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
YMWong Posted November 17, 2008 Ymwong,Are you trying to tell me that there are no daoist rituals for this kind of thing ? Come on now please dont say such things, Your not dealing with fools. No, there are no "rituals for this kind of things" in Daoism YM Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
r.w.smith Posted November 17, 2008 No, there are no "rituals for this kind of things" in Daoism YM Thank Heavens Im not part of your limited form of taoism. Its obvious some people are not ready for this kind of discussion so i will leave it here. Peace. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Spirit Ape Posted November 17, 2008 I participated in Shen Gong ritual in hongkong in my Kung Fu branch, was weird i must say! Mak Tin Si Thankyou for coming to this board with your Taoist wisdom, check your Private message box! Spirit Ape Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mantis Posted November 17, 2008 Thank Heavens Im not part of your limited form of taoism. Its obvious some people are not ready for this kind of discussion so i will leave it here. Peace. maybe YMWong should be thanking the heavens too Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
YMWong Posted November 18, 2008 The reason why they have been very happy with the knife testings game is because the way they like to promote in the 1960s. What they do is to write the Taoism fu (charms) with the sword finger onto a knife to makes the blade dull for cutting human only and then the knife will be chopped onto the human. This method is recorded in Taoism scripture, the master one called Do Jong (Taoism Canon) 道藏. Where in the Canon ? Would you be so kind as to provide reference ? Thanks YM Thank Heavens Im not part of your limited form of taoism. Its obvious some people are not ready for this kind of discussion so i will leave it here. Don't worry, you are of course entitled to your ideas. In your opinion, is this guy a Daoist ? YM Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
r.w.smith Posted November 18, 2008 Where in the Canon ? Would you be so kind as to provide reference ? Thanks YM Don't worry, you are of course entitled to your ideas. In your opinion, is this guy a Daoist ? YM Oh Lawdy i cannot believe what Im Hearing here Taoism has a Huge Array of Prayers & Talismans for almost every Circumstance Imaginable to Man ! To say it doesnt is simply Ludicrous & Beyond any further Debate. Thankyou. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
林愛偉 Posted November 18, 2008 Totally unrelated to Daoism. This seems to be the same group now posting here at TTB. Hong Kong is filled up with these (self-made) "daoists" who (falsely) claim Maoshan-Wudang-Whathaveyou lineages that have been passed to them during sceance. They have little-to-nothing to do with actual daoism and simply make a living filling a gap in many people's life. When this is done without negativity, it is a (commercial) service like many others. YM HAHAHA The music in this vid http://hk.youtube.com/watch?v=plhT-su7mHM&...feature=related is to a modern pop singer... scratchy voice.. hahaha I hear the song in my mind, but can't remember the words. something like.. 2002 nian...something something... haha Interesting how they have it in flute and put it for the video music. So funny... to me its like selling the mannerisms to western audiences just to make the video seem authentic! hehehe Maybe I am too much of a critic Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
林愛偉 Posted November 18, 2008 Oh Lawdy i cannot believe what Im Hearing here Taoism has a Huge Array of Prayers & Talismans for almost every Circumstance Imaginable to Man ! To say it doesnt is simply Ludicrous & Beyond any further Debate. Thankyou. Now just because someone looks ancient, practices energy cultivation, and has some ability doesn't make them a Daoist. In the west, Daoism has too broad of a meaning. People have taken the image, but not the foundation. Here's a story: Some people from Wu Dang Mountain's Kung Fu school asked Master Xu Shi Xi to teach Bagua for Wudang. He said no, because he isn't Daoist. They said, no problem, we'll give you the clothing, and you wear it, teach Bagua, and travel around with us. Master Xu said, but I'm not Daoist."What if I say something Buddhist?" The "Daoists"of Wu Dang replied, "It doesn't matter. Please teach for us... Answer was no. Because of the manner of commercialism, Daoism has been picked up only by the image of a man, a beard, long robes, or baggy pants practicing Taiji Quan on a mountain: A little flute music in the background...some "profound" standing practices that make you look like you are concentrating, a few good key phrases to get the Wows and Os in the from the crowd, and it will be taken as Daoist. Daoists I know rather not be out there in the crowds teaching to loads of people. They still would rather have that one good student, not out of many, but one, who is willing to stick to principles, adhere to precepts and cultivate his/her ass off till they attain some sort of proper spiritual power. The masters wear ordinary jeans and shirts among the crowds in the streets. Bring no attention to them self nor to any spirritual powers. It is alive and well, but imagery hass taken the attention from quality. Many wouldn't even recognize one, let alone know how to conduct themselves when they meet a real cultivator. I remember when I met Zhang Chang Feng Daoshi. He wanted to see my sword, and I said no. THen his disciples were taken back and asked me if I knew who he is. I said, regardless of his identity, if the sword says no, its no. Then Zhang Chang Feng and I were talking for a time, and the sword agreed. Afterwards, he spilled the beans about him being a Daoist Priest. I told him, no wonder the sword said no...you were hiding something from me. haha We met up some time after for a nice exchange of subtleties, kungfu and qigong. A good man he was. The point being...he walked among the crowd and not one person knew him or his identity. When they found out, they were taken back, and asked for a reading about their life...greed...hahaha Peace, Lin Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
gendao Posted November 18, 2008 (edited) The sword trick works because you need to pull it across to cut flesh, but if you push straight down it will cut the vegetable but not flesh, you can demonstate this to yourself slicing a cucumber onto your thumb with a kitchen knife it will bounce off unless you make a sawing motion then it will cut.True, but if you watched this vid - he was sliding it back and forth across everyone's bare backs...and then chopped a watermelon in half just going straight down. Especially on this one: plhT-su7mHM Edited November 18, 2008 by vortex Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
zanshin Posted November 18, 2008 He sure does. I e-mailed it to my Iaido friend- still a trick, since skin is rubbery it is harder to cut through than vegetables so the trick in this is keeping pressure evenly distributed through the blade while slowly sliding, rocking or stabbing with the knife will cut, so need to not slide after going through the watermelon since that could make assymetrical pressure. The guy in the video does it very well, although his knife looks cheap so we would be more impressed to see how sharp it is, doesn't really need to be that sharp to cut vegetables. My husband and I played with the kitchen knifes were able to confirm this on a small scale last night, which is sort of a dumb thing to do no blood but not recommending it. Just physics. Now I need a master of my nemesis the cheese grater to show me how to handle that without hurting myself. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
YMWong Posted November 18, 2008 Taoism has a Huge Array of Prayers & Talismans for almost every Circumstance Imaginable to Man ! To say it doesnt is simply Ludicrous & Beyond any further Debate. I'd suggest you read what people write instead of putting things in their mouths. But, of course, you can do and think as you wish YM Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
r.w.smith Posted November 18, 2008 (edited) Zanshin, Are you saying that a person cannot take blows with knife unharmed & Everything is trickery ? Edited November 18, 2008 by r.w.smith Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
