Wun Yuen Gong

Who is /are Max's Egyptian teachers?

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You forgot to mention he is the Messiah cause he faked his death and the resurrected himself. LOL

 

See its things like this that makes people like me question things, WHY do stupid things like this?! :rolleyes:

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Asprin,

 

Thanks for the love, can always use some...

 

...what the....

 

...hey, is that your hand on my ass??!!!

 

I know your tricks...

 

LOL!

 

*Big bonus points to the one who recognizes the movie I borrowed those last lines from...think Saturday Night Live*

 

 

Mantra68,

 

Some of those were pretty darn funny...

 

...but once again the discussion shifts towards who is what instead of what is or is not not...and this time it is the Kunlun side of the fence that shifts it in that direction.

 

I think it is pretty clear that the majority of people who attend the Kunlun seminars are very happy with both the teacher and the teaching, so that really isn't the issue. I think it is great you are helping people live better lives :)

 

If all personal quibbles can be set aside for a while, it would however be interesting to understanding some of the claims that have been made about the school itself.

 

I am thinking about things like:

 

- one hour of Kunlun is equivalent to a hundered years in other systems (from a thread last year).

- calling it the fastest way to enlightenment (which implies that other methods are inferior).

- claiming that for instance the Egyptian methods, mentioned on this thread, are more powerful than Daoist methods (once again, there is an air of superiority towards other systems).

 

Look, I know what it's like to be passionate about what you practise, we all are, that is why we put up with the hardship for years on end. But there really is no need to make outrageous claims or to put others down in the process.

 

About the Egyptian methods and the questions on this thread, considering how the origins of the method now known as Kunlun were altered, is it really that strange to find people are sceptical towards any sources claimed afterwards?

 

HG

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Mantra

You are one patient Man.This stuffs been going on for a year and you still come out boxing hats off

Now back to our German lesson

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If all personal quibbles can be set aside for a while, it would however be interesting to understanding some of the claims that have been made about the school itself.

 

I am thinking about things like:

 

- one hour of Kunlun is equivalent to a hundered years in other systems (from a thread last year).

 

This was something one of Max's teachers told him about his system. And perhaps that teacher didn't know of every system that existed...so he was most likely comparing it to just a few other systems.

 

I'm not sure about whether one hour of the practice is equivalent to a hundred years....but I practiced kundalini yoga for about 3 years, and did pretty intense meditation for about a year and a half before that....and kunlun definitely has more results in a hell of a lot less time.

 

But I'm not going to be a person who will make that claim that one hour equals one hundred years, because I have no idea if it does.

 

- calling it the fastest way to enlightenment (which implies that other methods are inferior).

 

I don't know if it's been called the fastest way. In my opinion there could be faster ways formulated. I don't know if it's ever been implied that other methods are inferior, either. It's just called the "quick quick path" because it's fast. Does that mean there aren't other quick quick paths or quick quick quick quick quick paths?

 

- claiming that for instance the Egyptian methods, mentioned on this thread, are more powerful than Daoist methods (once again, there is an air of superiority towards other systems).

 

Well you can say the Red Sun practice in the kunlun system is more powerful than the other practices, and it's probably true...but it doesn't really have to do with putting down other systems...it's just telling the truth.

 

Although I haven't tried the egyptian stuff yet.

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Scotty,

 

Thank you for your polite reply. Good to see that these things can be discussed in a civilized manner.

 

 

This was something one of Max's teachers told him about his system. And perhaps that teacher didn't know of every system that existed...so he was most likely comparing it to just a few other systems.

 

Knowing every system in existance would indeed be a neat trick... But regardless of who told the 1 hrs =100 yrs thing first, wasn't it still used for marketing purposes when Kunlun was launched? It was definately mentioned on this forum.

 

I don't know if it's been called the fastest way. In my opinion there could be faster ways formulated. I don't know if it's ever been implied that other methods are inferior, either. It's just called the "quick quick path" because it's fast. Does that mean there aren't other quick quick paths or quick quick quick quick quick paths?

 

Well, I agree with you here. I do think that statements regarding something being "quick, quick, quick" (or however many quicks there were) are very easily misunderstood but undeniably effective marketing slogans...lol.

 

Well you can say the Red Sun practice in the kunlun system is more powerful than the other practices, and it's probably true...but it doesn't really have to do with putting down other systems...it's just telling the truth.

 

Ah, I have to disagree with you there. If you are talking about the practise from this thread http://www.thetaobums.com/index.php?showto...&hl=red+sun then it is actually quite common and not that powerful at all. It can be tough the first times you do it though. It can also be a bit dangerous and really shoudn't be done without someone monitoring you. That goes for any practise with the potential to alter your blood pH. The exact outline of this practise will vary from school to school, of course, but the basics are the same. Heck, I even remember seeing a version of it in a book by ASHIDA KIM when I was a kid, hahaha. That should tell you a thing or two about how common it is...LOL!

 

Heh, so your not putting others down, just telling the truth??? Hahaha, I am not even going to touch that one...

 

Speaking of which, if you don't mind me asking, as a practitioner of Kunlun, how do you feel about the issues regarding altered lineages? Does it bother you or not that important?

 

 

HG

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seriously this discussions really have been going on for so long now ...

 

first kunlun came up and lots of people trashed it ...

 

then the first ones went there and found it great ...

 

then lots of people bought the book, went there and wrote very good things ...

 

some still remaind sceptical and didnt go for it ... which is perfectly fine, too. many good teachers and systems on earth. one good for the one and the other good for the other.

 

then many complained that there was too much kunlun in this forum. "too much kunlun!!".

 

then the kunlunforum was opened and suddenly for a little while there was a big silence here ...

 

then ... some of the same people that before complained about kunlun started threads again or put all their efforts in putting threads alive ...

 

it is like your neighbour that lives a few blocks away annoyes you and you never met him. you just heard and read about him. then he moves away and suddenly there is that big emtpiness ... nothing to be annoyed with anymore ... just you ... what to do with that ...

 

wun yuen gong ... you say you want to protect people from getting false impressions. seriously man .... i definetely respect your points of view and it is good to see both sides. but do not say you just do it for the sake of others. kunlun seems to be your personal obsession ... which is ok.

you seem to be happy with your own system. go for it. i saw a video of one of your teachers you posted. he seemed like a good one. why are you so obsessed with max ... let it go and let the free energy flower into something else. if you feel occupied to post a lot of mostly negative things about kunlun then just say so but dont say you just want to protect the others.

 

it seems like a political party ... better to make a great party and put love and energy in your own party than constantly pointing on the others. especially when you clearly see that people of the other party seem to be very happy with it.

 

sorry wun yuen gong when i come across annoyed but sometimes i just dont understand. actually you are a very good mirror for me as everybody else here is :) . i had a "i dont like this" - thing with another teacher for a while. i came to the point for me that it doesnt matter. just a waste of energy. instead of waiting that the other teacher confirmed my expectations of him i moved on and put my energy into something that made me more happy.

 

i went to this forum because i felt stuck. i have a long backround of dedicating myselve to the pratices i learned before. but for a long time i felt i didnt proceed the way i wanted. i found this forum. i came across kunlun and another thing. i didnt decide for kunlun at first because of the way it came across to me. but i liked the people that presented it patiently. then i decided to give it a try after a meditation time in india (which doesnt mean i left my other things ... they are getting strongly affected by kunlun) .i put away my doughts and went for it. later i travelled to new york to see max. since i started kunlun my inner flow comes back.

 

so many great things happen. so i move on.

 

no need to constantly discuss about the same old story ...

 

peace jan.

 

p.s. i have to add again that i personally think max is a great teacher and kunlun/red phoenix etc. are very good and powerful tools. even just by using the book i had very good results. namaste!

Edited by jan1107

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Hi Jan,

 

Im really done with this you obviously havent been reading what i have typed ive said the practice is good its the marketing and the way the followers are betraying Max to be. Ive researched into both Max and Jenny and ask the questions so i can get a better understanding of Max's teaschings. This is what i do with all my teachers as well please dont take it that im just picking on Max. As Hup Gerk has kindly added which no one seemed to answer him or they spin the thread into another direction so they dont have to or cannot answer him.

 

Like i said i am done trying to bring the light some of the things i see wrong and its obvious no one really gives a sh!t anyway they are happy listening to Max and Mantras words as TRUTH! So i would like to leave all this behind us and move on as you say.

 

I do have some positive questions about MAX and His Kunlun system how he has created it by adding his Maoshan, Egyptian, Ninja (kuji In), etc.

 

Anyway its all done on my side, i am free at last i know some of you dont care for history or lineage but it does with me!

 

Be well and buddha bless us all!

 

 

WYG

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Be well and buddha bless us all!

WYG

 

:) bless u, too.

love jan.

Edited by jan1107

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Scotty,

 

Thank you for your polite reply. Good to see that these things can be discussed in a civilized manner.

 

Thanks for the thanks, it motivates me to continue being polite.

 

Knowing every system in existance would indeed be a neat trick... But regardless of who told the 1 hrs =100 yrs thing first, wasn't it still used for marketing purposes when Kunlun was launched? It was definately mentioned on this forum.

 

Yup.

 

Ah, I have to disagree with you there. If you are talking about the practise from this thread http://www.thetaobums.com/index.php?showto...&hl=red+sun then it is actually quite common and not that powerful at all. It can be tough the first times you do it though. It can also be a bit dangerous and really shoudn't be done without someone monitoring you. That goes for any practise with the potential to alter your blood pH. The exact outline of this practise will vary from school to school, of course, but the basics are the same. Heck, I even remember seeing a version of it in a book by ASHIDA KIM when I was a kid, hahaha. That should tell you a thing or two about how common it is...LOL!

 

Well it may be common, but I've practiced it and it's actually probably the most powerful thing I've done. Maybe it helps to have had the transmission?

 

It felt like my body was dissolving and huge bliss surged up. I wasn't even pushing the envelope with it...so yeah I've only done it once but it was so far the most intense and fast method I've found.

 

Speaking of which, if you don't mind me asking, as a practitioner of Kunlun, how do you feel about the issues regarding altered lineages? Does it bother you or not that important?

 

It's not that important to me. It'd be an issue if Max just made up this stuff by just reading books, but he spent years studying with his teachers.

 

The system works great...that's all I really care about.

Edited by Scotty

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Well it may be common, but I've practiced it and it's actually probably the most powerful thing I've done. Maybe it helps to have had the transmission?

 

It felt like my body was dissolving and huge bliss surged up. I wasn't even pushing the envelope with it...so yeah I've only done it once but it was so far the most intense and fast method I've found.

It's not that important to me. It'd be an issue if Max just made up this stuff by just reading books, but he spent years studying with his teachers.

 

The system works great...that's all I really care about.

 

Scotty, but which of the the other systems have you practiced for a considerable period of time, sufficient to judge its merits and demerits? Who are the the masters you have trained with and what other systems have you spent dedicated time on that you can compare this practice against? A lot of those who have described their experiences with Kunlun are neither teachers nor the ones that have trained long time with masters. Most seem to be beginning to intermediate level students who are still exploring, looking for different techniques they gel with and they may find this technique very powerful. And it is quite possible that those who vouch for it now may do it less vehemently at a different point in future and we already have some such examples on this forum. Experiences and Techniques are highly transitional and anything transitional cannot be absolutely true. What is now true may not be the same later and what is true for one need not be for another, and this is the fallacy of analysis of Truth within the realms of name and space.

 

If you ask someone what it feels like when a deity makes his/her presence felt or when Kundalini bursts through the central channel or what a powerful Shaktipat is like, they will all say that was the most powerful thing for them and will probably experience nothing with Kunlun. So the experiences or symptoms recounted here, some of which has not been very pleasant, cannot be quoted repeatedly as the proof of it being the THE path. Mantra has toned down quite a bit in this regard as well and seems much more accepting of other paths and teachers and slightly less aggressive in his promotions which is evident if you compare his older posts to some of the recent ones. Thanks to him for that.

 

This thing of being the "root practice", "quick quick" path [the word "quickest" has been used twice, I am trying to find the exact thread, and there is no accompanying clarification that this is the quickest "of" the practices Max teaches, implying this to be universally true across systems], "most powerful" etc. are fine. But as long as one understands these are not explicitly or implicitly amounting to claims such as 'Jesus is the only way' or 'Jesus is the fastest way'! I may be wrong, but those propagating Kunlun have always used such undertones in their promotion of the art, and that quite possibly is unintentional. This is what I feel, and again, I could be wrong. Of course, any good, mature practitioner of some substance will not worry about such claims and will believe that his own practice is the best for him and devote himself to it fully. He is neither critical nor curious about the rest. For the less mature ones who squabble, clarifying helps.

 

Also, when there is praise or criticism, is it not all due to Karma? Why do both parties involved get excited here? Reaction has replaced response and the effects are for all to see. Those criticizing Kunlun or Max repeatedly fail to understand that they are offering him greater publicity by continuously raking up controversies. And those vehemently defending him forget that truth needs no defense and universe takes care of those who are in tune with Her. By turning defensive, you are fueling further discussion and nothing seems to be coming out of these as most of these threads end with either "I wont ask any more questions as I don't wanna get banned" or "I cannot share greater secret than this one. Ask Max". Does a Bodhisatva need someone to defend him and would he appreciate someone fighting over him, especially those who claim to represent him? This cycle, which has been repeating over and over again, may have some higher purpose to serve and I hope the universe will reveal that at the right time. Our lady does nothing without a purpose, does she? :)

 

The simple and oft neglected fact though is: everything is a commodity in today's world and consumerism is at its peak. When a commodity is made available to public, there most certainly is going to be acceptance or opposition. The magnitude of either is greatly influenced by the Higher Energy or the Universe. There surely is never a brand new situation or concept appearing in front of us from nowhere due to the inherent periodicity in the cosmos and looking back a little for answers is never a futile exercise. In the past, those masters who preferred no indiscreet discussion or unneeded criticism, guarded their techniques and stayed away from people, addressing a limited audience who they felt was qualified. Those who revealed them to all, took praise and criticism alike and understood the law of nature where balance of energy is accomplished in ways mysterious. This is true even in cases where every detail was revealed, understandable logic was presented to explain most of the concepts within the system in question and there was no apparent gray area; now what to speak of the other case? If Kunlun is anything as powerful as it is touted to be, then there is bound to be some reaction when something as big as that is thrown into the world of the common man. Nature always balances herself and it is really best to let her do that without interfering from either side. :)

 

Its obvious no one really gives a sh!t anyway they are happy listening to Max and Mantras words as TRUTH! So i would like to leave all this behind us and move on as you say.

 

I do have some positive questions about MAX and His Kunlun system how he has created it by adding his Maoshan, Egyptian, Ninja (kuji In), etc.

 

WYG

 

WYG, when you do not trust Max or Mantra, why would you want to ask them questions and waste both their time and yours? If you think Max made up stuff regarding Kunlun, why then do you discount the possibility of he doing the same with these Egyptian, Lemurian, Atlantic, Pacific, Oceanic or whatever other thing? What is the logic behind your questions? When you know you are not going to believe what they say, why do you waste time and efforts asking them questions? Assuming there is a faint chance that Max indeed is a Bodhisatva, nature is not going to be kind to you if you indulge in unnecessary name calling.

 

And, even if we assume your interests are positive and not solely opprobrious, is gathering a lot of clutter - info on hundreds of topics in this case - of much use, especially when one is spending so much of time [of his and others] asking questions, when one already has a practice which he likes? Of what good is that information which one is not going to practically apply or use?

 

Like someone else said, crusading takes too much energy and not everyone has that kind of energy or is required to do such work. If Karma is the guiding factor behind what one practices and who one wants to learn under, why would anyone sensible interfere with the nature's scheme of things by trying to dissuade such individuals who have reached some place because that is the right place for them to be at that time? Why not trust the Universe a little more?

 

In the valley of Kashmir in India, described as heaven on hearth owing to not only its natural beauty but also the associated profound mysticism, 450000 Kashmiri Pandits [the torch bearers of Kashmiri philosophy and Tantra] were driven out of their homes, women raped, men and children killed and every atrocity known to mankind was inflicted upon them, for one simple reason - they did not embrace Islam. In spite of such adverse circumstances, they relied on their practice, the wisdom that arose of their practice and the compassion and the feeling of unity with ALL that was comprehended. This community, known for its intellectuals and achievers in various fields, though bearing wounds that remind them of the brutality they have faced for over a century, still retain compassion and hope for themselves, for others and most importantly for those Muslims, who, on the contrary, continue to champion the cause of terrorism in the valley. Such adherence to faith, value and undying compassion, which can arise only when the unity in totality is comprehended, speaks pages about the merit of their practice - Kashmiri Shaivism. True practice speaks for itself and seldom does the true practitioner. Eventually. the goal, the traveler and the path will be realized as being non-different and at that state, who will speak for or against what? I am tempted to say the same about the situation in Tibet, but will refrain for now :)

 

Moreover, someone asked Ramana, what the use of his enlightenment was for he did not cure diseases, avert natural disasters, teach actively, write books or do anything similar [intentionally]. He pointed to a disciple who sat there with closed eyes. The lady opened her eyes and said, "The very presence of an enlightened soul is enough to bring balance all around him. All those sitting in Maharshi's presence are in a state of thoughtless bliss, free from misery, identification with body, wants and limited existence. His very presence has induced this in not just the humans around him, but animals in this region as well. The presence of an enlightened soul in itself is a great boon to the society". If we worked towards attaining our own mastery and getting enlightened [whatever that may mean], we would end up doing the highest good to the universe. Also, as enlightened beings, what we think, say or act will make much more sense...or even simply...sense. At that stage, if crusading seems right, then it is :)

 

Glory to Manjughosha!

Edited by SiliconValley

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Good post SiliconValley!

 

I started out by studying whatever I could find from any tradition. From gathering together an idea of the root path, I formulated my own practice which I called "death yoga". I laid on my bed and vowed to not move a muscle besides to breathe and swallow my spit until I became enlightened. A few hours later, tons of energy rushed through me and my mind flipped inside out, "I" disappeared in a sense. The point at which that happened, I gave up everything of my life and accepted whatever was to come because I cared only for enlightenment...whatever that was.

 

After that, I got into witnessing meditation via Ramana Maharshi, and would spend my entire day in high school and at home practicing. That lasted I don't know how long...too long.

 

I did some basic Kriya yoga with that...doing a technique where you visualize light concentrating at the chakras and moving up the spine over and over. Tried other techniques, etc.

 

Came in contact with a Swami G lady over the internet, and was going to take diksha and be initiated into that Siddha path. It didn't work out, but I had pretty intense kundalini stuff going on at that time. Like not being able to sleep at night...feeling nauseous and like I was about to start levitating all the time...being loopy as hell...not being able to sit cross legged....tons of other negative symptoms. One funny thing: I was listening to talk radio while driving my car on a long trip, and the pope came on and I had a huge awakening. I had to pull over. :lol:

 

Practiced AYP kundalini yoga methods for a good 2/3 years. I found it to be not good for me...the main problem may have been grounding and rooting, which the AYP system really lacks.

 

What helped me with that was AWA meditation, which is the same as witnessing, but it's a good way to go about it. That balanced out the negative kundalini stuff I had. I still love AWA a lot...very direct. I practice it with kunlun sometimes, and tend to do it before bed.

 

So out of that, I think the kunlun system is my favorite in terms of safety and speed. Out of the kunlun system, I think Red Sun is the most powerful practice I've tried. It's a lot like the "death yoga" I began with, except it doesn't take hours or however long until the fear of death comes up, to work.

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Good post, man.

 

My enthusiasm may have gotten the best of me in the beginning of all of this, but we NEVER claimed to be BETTER than anyone else and always encouraged people to absolutely follow what they felt was the best thing for them.

 

That is what we do.

 

Scrutiny and criticism are fine and expected but when things get out of hand, I will step in and try to clarify as best I can. Though even I don't know everything about Max, but I am certainly not going to let negative folks fabricate things out of boredom.

 

The practices of Kunlun have quite a solid history and Max uses the term to refer to many forms he has learned since the age of six with his first teacher. These are the Formless Forms of Kung Fu, Chi Gung and Nei Gung. He may say, "open your Kunlun" while demonstrating on you. This means to let tension release and allow the energetic channels to open so that you can properly tune to the specific energy he is transferring. Sometimes he will send a spiraling energy in through you arm to your heart or sometimes he will send bliss to your belly, or he may send something that knocks you through the air. Whatever it may be, it happens at a mind-to-mind level and of course permission is necessary.

 

The point is that Kunlun is his school and he has the right to call it what he wants because he is the master technician that his teachers were waiting for. They knew he would refine and combine what was given to him and he has done them proud.

 

He has reached a level where none of his teachers can help him. While they are some of the best on earth, they don't have experience with what he is going through energetically. Now his new students are beginning to experience levels that took Max many years to attain and he loves that.

 

Students should surpass their teachers. This means the teacher has done well.

 

Once again, it is there for you if you'd like to check it out. I don't know how long Max will be personally teaching but his work is available now, so you at least have the option.

 

Good luck with whatever it is you do. I hope that you get what you want from your efforts.

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He has reached a level where none of his teachers can help him. While they are some of the best on earth, they don't have experience with what he is going through energetically.

 

 

I am sure there are teachers/masters/beings that Max does not have experience with in terms of what "they are going through energetically" as well. It seems from how you worded things, that Max is the only one doing what he does now and that no earthly master would understand what he is undergoing in his path... that may be a stretch.

 

I will tell you this much, there is nothing new.......and when you think you have invented something someone (incarnated or not, man, guru, demi-god, deity, Shakti, Absolute) has already gone before you to lay down some foundation on some level. Ultimately whatever you think, the Creator/Tao has already done it on some level.

 

Here is the Sufi perspective for you....

 

"The Most High" (ALLAH) contains all including "Kun Lun" .... :)

 

Peace

 

Santiago

Edited by Vajrasattva
  • Like 1

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SV,

 

Ive countlessly explained why i questioned Max's practice and Mantras post i think you might want to look through all my COUNTLESS posting as you say and re-read why i question what has been discussed. :(

 

It only took a few phone calls and emails to people to give me my questioning but people dont care here about lineage or history or if people just take others information and add there own and repackage it as there own system. Ive said all i had to say about the whole Kunlun and Max and wont start it all up again i wish everyone the best on there path!

 

Would be funny to see that i took all of Max's information repackaged it again and made money from it, hmmm The Ultimate Path - YOU will be enlightened money back guarentee!!! ;)

 

Thanks for posting your comment!

 

WYG

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I am sure there are teachers/masters/beings that Max does not have experience with in terms of what "they are going through energetically" as well. It seems from how you worded things, that Max is the only one doing what he does now and that no earthly master would understand what he is undergoing in his path... that may be a stretch.

 

I will tell you this much, there is nothing new.......and when you think you have invented something someone (incarnated or not, man, guru, demi-god, deity, Shakti, Absolute) has already gone before you to lay down some foundation on some level. Ultimately whatever you think, the Creator/Tao has already done it on some level.

 

Here is the Sufi perspective for you....

 

"The Most High" (ALLAH) contains all including "Kun Lun" .... :)

 

Peace

 

Santiago

All of us are sovereign gods in this collective experience. Kunlun practices are just there to remind you of this.

 

Also, it is a BIG jump to infer that I am saying that no living person could understand what he is going through. I simply said his teachers don't have many answers for him at this point. You are a sharp guy, please pay closer attention if you are going to comment.

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SV,

 

Ive countlessly explained why i questioned Max's practice and Mantras post i think you might want to look through all my COUNTLESS posting as you say and re-read why i question what has been discussed. :(

 

It only took a few phone calls and emails to people to give me my questioning but people dont care here about lineage or history or if people just take others information and add there own and repackage it as there own system. Ive said all i had to say about the whole Kunlun and Max and wont start it all up again i wish everyone the best on there path!

 

Would be funny to see that i took all of Max's information repackaged it again and made money from it, hmmm The Ultimate Path - YOU will be enlightened money back guarentee!!! ;)

 

Thanks for posting your comment!

 

WYG

Max didn't just "take" practices from others. He was given these practices for the sole purpose of doing what he has done with them. He has eliminated what was not necessary (when necessary) from them so that you only do what is effective and don't waste time with BS.

 

This is much different from what you describe above. It takes a master to do this. You must have a deep understanding of how energy works in the body such that you can fine tune these things not only for the practice itself but for individuals practicing at different levels.

 

You fail to understand his level of aptitude, which is understandable since you live in Australia and don't know him.

 

And based on what the way you represent yourself here, I wouldn't say you had the capacity to do what he has done.

 

Sorry dawg.

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