VELLY

Teacher for Non ejaculatory orgasms

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I want to learn Tao sexual practices such as non ejaculatory orgasms. I have been looking for some teachers here and there, but there is so much of conflicting information on the internet. 

I am going to mention few names here :

https://www.johnathanwhitelifestyle.com/multi-orgasmic-man - johnathan white 

 

https://www.nakuladas.com/. - Nakula das

 

https://www.awakenedintent.com/blog/sexual-energy-and-semen-retention-for-men - Chris Bale 

 

https://www.tantradharmacenter.com/ejaculation-mastery - Devi Ward

 

https://healingtaousa.com/sexual-qigong-jade-eggs/ - Micheal Winn 

 

https://www.taylorjohnson.life/semen-retention-mastery/  - Taylor Johnson 

 

There are some teachers like Lujan Matus who teach sexual tao practices only to the initiated. Can anybody help me to select the best or the most accurate teachers who has least flaws in their teaching. I do know that this area of tao has no one guru who is 100% accurate. But any ideas would be appreciated. If you have some list of best content please share.

 

It will help the new ones entering this area.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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39 minutes ago, VELLY said:

I want to learn Tao sexual practices such as non ejaculatory orgasms. I have been looking for some teachers here and there, but there is so much of conflicting information on the internet. 

I am going to mention few names here :

https://www.johnathanwhitelifestyle.com/multi-orgasmic-man - johnathan white 

 

https://www.nakuladas.com/. - Nakula das

 

https://www.awakenedintent.com/blog/sexual-energy-and-semen-retention-for-men - Chris Bale 

 

https://www.tantradharmacenter.com/ejaculation-mastery - Devi Ward

 

https://healingtaousa.com/sexual-qigong-jade-eggs/ - Micheal Winn 

 

https://www.taylorjohnson.life/semen-retention-mastery/  - Taylor Johnson 

 

There are some teachers like Lujan Matus who teach sexual tao practices only to the initiated. Can anybody help me to select the best or the most accurate teachers who has least flaws in their teaching. I do know that this area of tao has no one guru who is 100% accurate. But any ideas would be appreciated. If you have some list of best content please share.

 

It will help the new ones entering this area.

 

Dear me

 

You absolutely should not want to learn any of this. It is neither required nor beneficial

 

The amount of misinformation surrounding this type of work is overwhelming, and to be totally honest, you should be looking for better practices

 

Mantak Chia broke enough people in his time...My suggestion is to steer very clear of anything to do with sexual practices, and seriously re-examine your motives for even considering this.

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Hey man, good to have you here.

 

Pardon me for being a bummer, but based on personal experience with the root of some of the above-mentioned methods (Mantak Chia's teachings - specifically the Multi-Orgasmic Man) I'm of the opinion that they're all fundamentally flawed from the assumption that transmutation of Jing (the root of sexual energy) during arousal will lead to its sublimation.

 

I'm not sure if the Vajrayana teachers listed above use different methods, but those referencing the Multi-Orgasmic Man will lead to side effects that I didn't see outlined on their websites - including possible ED, difficulty with urination, and sexual deviancy (i.e. fantasies increasing in frequency and intensity). 

 

The root of their methods is drawn from a mistaken interpretation of Chinese alchemical texts that do talk about conversion of Jing to Qi to Shen, which is indeed the process of sublimating energies beginning with the one that is the root energy of the semen (but isn't the same thing as semen).  Definitely there's lots of people running with this idea (like I did) because its super tempting - I like sex and I want to be more spiritual, so why not combine both?  Although they have worked out a method to successfully prevent ejaculation, I'd argue that they're doing themselves harm as opposed to achieving any spiritual aims.

 

Now if you're anything like me you'll probably go ahead with this anyways :lol: but I hope you'll gather as much information as possible before going forward.  I get that its a super tempting idea, but if enlightenment was really possible through sex - wouldn't our horny-ass species have figured that out by now?

Edited by Wilhelm
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31 minutes ago, Shadow_self said:

 

Dear me

 

You absolutely should not want to learn any of this. It is neither required nor beneficial

 

The amount of misinformation surrounding this type of work is overwhelming, and to be totally honest, you should be looking for better practices

 

Mantak Chia broke enough people in his time...My suggestion is to steer very clear of anything to do with sexual practices, and seriously re-examine your motives for even considering this.

 

I am aware about Mantak Chia's program and it's dangers. That's why I did not mention his name in the list.

 

Anyways, all these gurus and teachers make so many claims and promise a better and fulfilling sex life. My question is if they are wrong then why is there so much hype surrounding it? 

 

What else are you going to suggest instead of these programs? 

Finally, there must be some people with accurate knowledge about these practices. They may not be so mainstream but they must be somewhere.

 

There is one shaman master Lujan Maths who seemed very secretive about this kind of knowledge. He is very selective about the students whom to teach this stuff. May be he knows about the ins and outs of it. I could not find any of his article or book about it.

 

What would you suggest?

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1 minute ago, VELLY said:

Anyways, all these gurus and teachers make so many claims and promise a better and fulfilling sex life.

 

Is this what you are seeking?

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1 minute ago, Shadow_self said:

 

Is this what you are seeking?

Don't know if I am wrong, but yes. Who would not love a better sex life?

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2 minutes ago, VELLY said:

Don't know if I am wrong, but yes. Who would not love a better sex life?

 

I think you need to try a different forum for this :D 

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6 minutes ago, VELLY said:

 

I am aware about Mantak Chia's program and it's dangers. That's why I did not mention his name in the list.

I think it's hard not to mention Mantak Chia in these convos because he's the source material for the methods (and although some of the links in the OP cropped out his name, that's his book they're holding).

 

6 minutes ago, VELLY said:

Anyways, all these gurus and teachers make so many claims and promise a better and fulfilling sex life. My question is if they are wrong then why is there so much hype surrounding it? 

Sex & Personal Growth are the two biggest buzz words I can think of in Western consumer culture - so putting them together on its own is a surefire way to generate hype.

 

6 minutes ago, VELLY said:

What else are you going to suggest instead of these programs? 

Finally, there must be some people with accurate knowledge about these practices. They may not be so mainstream but they must be somewhere.

I'm not saying these guys don't know about the practices mentioned, I'm just saying that they're not disclosing some of the problems these things can cause.

 

I think it's great to want a healthy sex life, and it's certainly the goal I had in mind when trying out the multi-orgasmic methods talked about above.  This is definitely part of a larger conversation that I'm sorry to say I'm not qualified to talk about past my own experience

 

6 minutes ago, VELLY said:

What would you suggest?

When checking out these sorts of things, keep in mind the proposition "if it's too good to be true, it probably is"

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26 minutes ago, Shadow_self said:

 

I think you need to try a different forum for this :D 

 

May be you are right.

1 hour ago, Shadow_self said:

time...My suggestion is to steer very clear of anything to do with sexual practices, and seriously re-examine your motives for even considering this.

 

Why is this motive wrong Sir? Expecting a healthy and fulfilling sexual life is a bad motive?

Please enlighten.

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23 minutes ago, VELLY said:

 

May be you are right.

I dont mean that you cannot post here...just that sex isnt really the point of a forum like this per se...theres off topic discussions where you might find stuff like that :) Take a look around

 

Quote

 

Why is this motive wrong Sir? Expecting a healthy and fulfilling sexual life is a bad motive?

 

If looking to pursue  Daoist esoteric practices...a sex life is generally something that goes to the back of the line in terms of importance. Not that it is non-existent...but generally speaking, sexual desire is a hindrance. Actually the dissipation of sexual desire is a marker of progress

 

For example...a person who has got to a certain stage, they will have zero craving for sex at all. The will not get aroused unless they choose to...in other words one has complete control over their base desires

 

That does not mean that they wont have sex...It means they wont crave it.

 

Personally, id consider that a far more healthy approach...but that is not in line with what the majority of people think

 

Edited by Shadow_self
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1 hour ago, Shadow_self said:

 

Quote

At 20, I was led to study Traditional Chinese Medicine(TCM) in college for 4 years, where I flourished for the first time in an educational setting. I spent much time with a very potent QiGong Master whom I learned much from, and finished as a qualified acupuncturist and practitioner of medical qigong. I went on to explore many other forms of energy work. I have always had a deep(at times obsessive) love affair with the energy world.

 

I saw this guy before. He's the classical gone-wrong Guru type IMHO... Thinks he has some sort of enlightenment, maybe has some energetic skill, combines it with Reiki and god knows what else... and then plays around with people's energy systems and what not... I'd personally stay clear, but I guess it depends what you're after... 

 

I am sure both @Shadow_self and @freeform have come across those types of guys before... Maybe they can comment. 

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Hi Velly,

 

You might check out the programs offered by the Body Electric School and the work of the school's founder, Joseph Kramer.  

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Hey @VELLY

 

Welcome to the forum!

 

The reason you’re getting so much pushback is because at the forum we get a constant, steady influx of people that have damaged themselves with these sorts of sexual practices.

 

Everything from messed up ‚Äėtubes and valves‚Äô (so they‚Äôre constantly dribbling semen into their bladder and urinating it out)‚Ķ

 

to weird physiological issues like heart palpitations, racing mind, insomnia, constant adrenaline-spiked anxiety, tinnitus, hot flushes, painful eyes, migraines etc.

 

all the way to mental issues like uncontrollable emotions, psychotic breaks, manic episodes, constant amping up of sexual deviancy etc…

 

We’ve seen it all here… and I’ve warned a lot about this on the forum, so I often get private messages from people recognising some of these things I mention (often for the first time linking the issues with the practices).

 

It’s really sad to see young men having to deal with these sometimes life-long problems as a result of some dude’s wish to sell some books and courses.

 

The source for the vast majority of these sexual practices is Mantak Chia - even if they don’t say so.

 

Some of these practices do come from historic texts - generally ones that came from a weird period in Chinese history. Where the aim is basically vampirism… they believed that a man of high-standing could have sex with many virgins and by doing certain exercises, they could absorb these children’s vitality… Some texts were completely made up for titillation… others came from manuals for prostitutes.

 

The main point is that none of these things were ‚ÄėDaoist‚Äô in nature‚Ķ

 

You know how they‚Äôve recently made this idea of ‚Äėmanifestation‚Äô a modern spiritual movement -¬†where in reality it has nothing to do with spirituality - basically subverting the idea of prayer to satisfy one‚Äôs desires‚Ķ

 

So, I believe, the same thing may have happened in the past - giving something a Daoist label made it seem legit.

 

Why is there hype? Because practicing these things does something… Not a good something - but there’s a certain power you might feel from these things at first.

 

It can also create delusions of grandeur and an insatiable need to satisfy sexual urges and power urges… and guess what’s one of the best ways to satisfy both of those?
 

Get some students! You can fuck a bunch of them… and the rest you can control and use for income!

 

This is a really sad, shady aspect of modern ‚ÄėDaoism‚Äô - and really you‚Äôre better off not getting involved at all.

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There are probably much better sources for teaching a healthy sex life!

 

Things that focus on developing intimacy and love and connection with your partner… 

 

Not manipulating energy and doing weird techniques that completely take away from any connection and intimacy!

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9 minutes ago, freeform said:

There are probably much better sources for teaching a healthy sex life!

 

Things that focus on developing intimacy and love and connection with your partner… 

 

Not manipulating energy and doing weird techniques that completely take away from any connection and intimacy!

 

I think sexual practice is like anything else -- there's good and bad, depending, as always, on a person's goals and personal context.  Not everything taught under the huge umbrella of sexual/spiritual practice takes away from connection and intimacy.  Quite the contrary.

 

It's not Taoist Tantra, assuming that such an animal actually exists, but I've long been intrigued by the practice of eye gazing, particularly as a way of building intimacy in relationships.  No sexual arousal required, no forced breathing, no weird energetic manipulations.  Seems harmless enough yet potentially very deep.

 

 

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@VELLY  Daoist sex-practices will not help either.

On 24/10/2022 at 12:16 AM, Cobie said:

Your wife … will respond well to being loved by you.
My advice: focus on the relationship and forget about the mentioned problems. 

 

On 25/10/2022 at 4:47 PM, Cobie said:

… In almost all cases of erectile dysfunction, the cause is watching porn. 
When stopping porn completely, in most cases a normal response to IRL stimuli returns (after about 6 months).

 

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3 hours ago, VELLY said:

Why is this motive wrong Sir? Expecting a healthy and fulfilling sexual life is a bad motive?

Please enlighten.


The motive is not wrong. However, one should concentrate on having a healthy body other than fulfilling other things as a priority.  One should fine-tune the body by enhancing it to perform to the best of its ability. Pursuing a goal with false information would send you farther and farther away from it. 

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3 hours ago, anshino23 said:

I am sure both @Shadow_self and @freeform have come across those types of guys before... Maybe they can comment. 

 

I have, and they are, in a word, Scum

 

There are practices involving sexual acts in Daoism, but as @freeform mentioned, they came up at a weird time in Daoism.

 

My own perspective is outside of guidelines like matters on how often to ejaculate based on your age, they just aren't worth paying attention to

 

There is also sexual practices in Tibetan Buddhism, like Karmamudra, and in Shaivism (particularly the Kaula sect)

 

These are generally outside the scope of public discussion for the most part...the former being a rather advanced practice and the latter being highly secretive, and an initiation rite into the tradition

 

Neither of them are concerned with having a good sex life

 

1 hour ago, liminal_luke said:

It's not Taoist Tantra, assuming that such an animal actually exists, but I've long been intrigued by the practice of eye gazing, particularly as a way of building intimacy in relationships. 

 

This is not aimed at you @liminal_luke, just a general comment.

 

One of the major issues is the term Tantra has become almost inseparable from sexuality in modern times.

 

The truth of the matter is alchemical Daoism is tantric. The original use of the term was making reference to embodied methods.

 

We use the body to transform ourselves via the practice.

 

But the confusion comes because peoples favourite thing to do with their body is? :D 

 

This is how you know 99% of the stuff you find  related to practices in Daoism, Vajrayana and the various Yoga traditions in public is a waste of time

 

They spend all their time messing around with their mind, and not working with the body.

 

Visualise this, imagine that, feel the energy of the universe pop out the top of your crown chakra. Picture your MCO opening and guide your chi with your mind :rolleyes:

 

 I hate to be blunt..but it is just a hindrance to be totally honest

 

Tantric methods are much more somatic than this.

 

A good yardstick to judge something is, is it changing and transforming my body. That would signify whether or not the tantric principles are correctly embodied

Edited by Shadow_self
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1 hour ago, Shadow_self said:

 

This is not aimed at you @liminal_luke, just a general comment.

 

One of the major issues is the term Tantra has become almost inseparable from sexuality in modern times.

 

 

Yeah, I assume almost all of the people claiming to teach Tantra in a sexual context aren't really teaching Tantra at all, at least not in a historically accurate or scholarly sense.  They are teaching something else whose tantric roots are dubious; something else but not necessarily a bad something else, at least not in my decidedly untantric opinion.

 

Do people all over the world have an unhealthy obsession with sex or is that mostly a US thing?  Many of us correctly sense that sexual energy is a powerful force and how we orient ourselves around sexuality matters.  So we get this situation where people are doing all sorts of things to have great sex or, conversely, no sex at all.  Bizarrely, people often try to have great sex and no sex at the same time.  Or perhaps it's that they try not to have sex most of the time in order to have great sex occasionally?  I don't get it.  Like so much in nature, I think sexuality works best when we don't try to manipulate it from the top down, when we don't imagine sexual energy is something to own or use.  In matters of sex, and perhaps bodily processes in general, humbleness goes a long way.

Edited by liminal_luke
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8 hours ago, liminal_luke said:

Hi Velly,

 

You might check out the programs offered by the Body Electric School and the work of the school's founder, Joseph Kramer.  

After reading answer from @freeform and others, I am worried that these things are just a scam. They can also be damaging for my physical and mental health.

 

Only you have mentioned that not everything is black which is sold under the umbrella of sexual practices. So the one you have suggested me Body electric. Have you used these practices?

 

If yes, how was the experience?

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2 hours ago, VELLY said:

After reading answer from @freeform and others, I am worried that these things are just a scam. They can also be damaging for my physical and mental health.

 

Only you have mentioned that not everything is black which is sold under the umbrella of sexual practices. So the one you have suggested me Body electric. Have you used these practices?

 

If yes, how was the experience?

 

My honey believes that I don't care what other people think of me but he's wrong: I do care.  Because I care I'm sometimes a little sheepish about my own spiritual practice, especially here on the forum where traditionalists abound.  Still, under the influence of a steep cup of jasmine tea, I might tell you that my practice involves visualization and conscious breathwork.  I've even been known to follow my energy around in mental circles according to the instructions of Voldemort Mantak Chia.  All this, as you might imagine, is bad enough.  Perhaps unfortunately -- or not, depending on your point of view -- I'm not game to provide a public review of the pseudo-tantric adventures of my young adulthood. 

 

In this, as in so many other things, you might have to make up your own mind. 

 

 

Edited by liminal_luke
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6 hours ago, VELLY said:

I am worried that these things are just a scam. They can also be damaging for my physical and mental health.


It’s not that it’s a scam… it’s more like a drug… you start taking a drug and it makes you feel good, you get your friends into it, you hype up its benefits, there’s a whole culture and community around it - and even though it starts doing damage and causing issues, you explain these away - because it feels good.

 

It’s human nature to become intoxicated by an abundance of sexuality, by an abundance of status and by an abundance of resources (money)… these things have a way of subverting people down a path they would not have normally taken.

 

Of course not everyone succumbs to it - just as not everyone becomes an addict from trying drugs! I think that everyone has a personal responsibility for themselves. You get to make your own decisions…

 

but I also think it’s important to be given the full information… to see the other perspectives…

 

unfortunately in a society based on commerce, the perspectives we get access to are generally the ones that promote things and make money.
 

Saying - ‚Äúhang on a sec, this stuff they‚Äôre promoting is problematic‚ÄĚ just doesn‚Äôt get as much ad space and airtime.

 

The nature of these base drives is that they have this¬†strange intoxicating effect. People get intoxicated by the idea of wealth and resources - so they get pulled into ‚Äėget rich quick‚Äô schemes, gambling, immoral business practices etc‚Ķ

 

Sex and sexuality can be the same. Particularly if it gets disconnected from intimacy and love for your partner.

 

It’s just better to know all perspectives before you embark on something - so you’ve been smart and asked at a relatively impartial forum. :) 

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Oh and there‚Äôs also this ‚ÄėDaoist‚Äô:

 


Hilarious… and obviously good at getting attention…

 

But this isn’t really what the Daoist spiritual tradition was all about :) 

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16 hours ago, VELLY said:

Don't know if I am wrong, but yes. Who would not love a better sex life?

 

This is off topic, but I started testosterone replacement therapy a few months ago, and it's like I've turned the clock back 15 years. 

 

If you're suffering in this regard, go visit an endocrinologist and get your levels checked. 

 

Some people also benefit from a daily microdose of cialis, which also has the added effect of increasing blood flow and lowering blood pressure.

 

I would say using spiritual methods to achieve something so humdrum, is like being given a genie's wishfufilling lamp and using it to produce an endless supply of Big Macs. 

 

I think not only is a wasted opportunity, but probably also disrespectful to the original intent behind some of those practices, and therefore likely to generate some form of additional karmic hindrances. 

 

Just my opinion anyway! 

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11 hours ago, liminal_luke said:

 

Yeah, I assume almost all of the people claiming to teach Tantra in a sexual context aren't really teaching Tantra at all, at least not in a historically accurate or scholarly sense.  They are teaching something else whose tantric roots are dubious; something else but not necessarily a bad something else, at least not in my decidedly untantric opinion.

The problem lies in the confusion surrounding #1 embodied practice, but also #2 the fact that some of these traditions do have sexual work.

 

But this is not something you can do by picking up a book or going to a seminar

 

Karmamudra for example, requires proficiency in Tummo. Real tummo, not imaging there is a fire in your belly or the Wim Hof tragic practice

 

The initiation rites of Shaivism...my goodness, the amount of work that goes into them is substantial.

 

In Daoism it has to so with Jing. The idea that semen retention is spiritual is wrong.

 

Semen has Yin and Yang aspects of Jing. In alchemy, we want to extract that Yang aspect, and use it. The Yin aspect is the fluid and can be replenished by diet

 

Heres the kicker, the Yang aspect of Jing isnt just lost by orgasm...its actually lost by arousal, and it can be burned up by the arousal of any of the sense faculties

 

This is why 99% dont even do the firing process properly, they don't understand the actual work that goes into it, especially with avoiding arousal. Honestly, I don't think it would be proper to do it and try to live in the world at the same time, id be telling anyone to take  that 100 days away from everything (Im more of a purist in that regard though) 

 

But its much easier to make a quick buck by telling people sex=spirituality

 

Quote

 

Do people all over the world have an unhealthy obsession with sex or is that mostly a US thing?  Many of us correctly sense that sexual energy is a powerful force and how we orient ourselves around sexuality matters.  So we get this situation where people are doing all sorts of things to have great sex or, conversely, no sex at all.  Bizarrely, people often try to have great sex and no sex at the same time.  Or perhaps it's that they try not to have sex most of the time in order to have great sex occasionally?  I don't get it.  Like so much in nature, I think sexuality works best when we don't try to manipulate it from the top down, when we don't imagine sexual energy is something to own or use.  In matters of sex, and perhaps bodily processes in general, humbleness goes a long way.

 

Sex is a weird one because it permeates several facets of desire. 

 

At its root however is a relationship to survival and death.

 

A fair portion of the time when you see someone who has issues with sex and so forth, you might find that there is something amiss in terms of their relationship with those two things.

 

Now if you think about what certain religions did, by altering the doctrine of reincarnation to a single trip, and changing peoples perspectives around survival and death, you'll notice just how influential it was and how it was so easy to manipulate peoples behaviour.

 

The same holds true for sex. The obsession with it, at a deeper level, touches on the fear surrounding those two things.

 

So then, this is one of the reasons why people are so obsessed with it, and also why it is so easy to sell. There are other aspects of course, but this is the one that people usually overlook.

Edited by Shadow_self
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