What if your teacher is too advanced for you?

[old3bob]

What if your teacher is too advanced for you?  

comments?

[-ꦥꦏ꧀ ꦱꦠꦿꦶꦪꦺꦴ-]

Isn’t that good?

[dwai]

Work on the basics and be patient. It takes time for knowledge to grow…

[old3bob]

51 minutes ago, Pak_Satrio said:

Isn’t that good?

 

I'd say no,  since an advanced teacher should or would normally assign one of their other students to help you - one that is closer to your level... it is a fallacy to think we need and or should have the most advanced of teachers.  For instance in martial arts a brown belt will help the lower ranks and an advanced black belt will help the brown belts and new black belts.

 

That does not mean that the advanced teacher wouldn't check in on us at the lower ranks now and then....

Edited July 14, 2022 by old3bob

[Cheshire Cat]

I think that it's mostly about the amount of time that the teacher decide to spend on his students.

Some teachers take a lot of students and they have no time to for them.

[old3bob]

2 hours ago, dwai said:

Work on the basics and be patient. It takes time for knowledge to grow…

 

indeed, and we wouldn't want the complication of knowledge getting far ahead of our level of being... which can easily happen with the flood of materials available these days via multiple sources.

[wstein]

If its a good teacher, there is no such thing as 'too advanced' for you.

If its a bad teacher, its always a waste of time and possibly damaging.

 

Seems more likely what you are expressing is that you don't feel like your teacher is benefiting you. This might be true or it might be you just can't see the progress. It can be hard to tell in these situations which it is.

 

My suggestions:

-talk to other students to see if they had this problem at first and how did they over come it.

-switch/add another teacher that you feel more comfortable with. In time it should become clear if you want to go back to the first teacher.

[mcoolio]

Here is one perspective:

 

Nowadays people want advanced stuff. Low attention span, always need something new. Teacher also has to make a living in this world, so why not give them(students) their stuff so then can occupy themselves.

 

In the end, those students that really want to(need to) evolve will be humble and (perhaps after some time of fooling around) go back to the basic simple foundation practices. Other students will fool themselves forever, going from one teacher to another, one teaching to another.

 

I still dont know what kind of student I am 

 

If the teacher never shared with you these foundational practices, then perhaps it's time to seek elsewhere.

 

On the other hand ... drowning students in all kinds of advanced practices might just be a way to take advantage of students and make money.

 

 

Edited July 14, 2022 by mcoolio

[old3bob]

4 hours ago, wstein said:

If its a good teacher, there is no such thing as 'too advanced' for you.

If its a bad teacher, its always a waste of time and possibly damaging.

 

Seems more likely what you are expressing is that you don't feel like your teacher is benefiting you. This might be true or it might be you just can't see the progress. It can be hard to tell in these situations which it is.

 

My suggestions:

-talk to other students to see if they had this problem at first and how did they over come it.

-switch/add another teacher that you feel more comfortable with. In time it should become clear if you want to go back to the first teacher.

 

Agreed that they are not too advanced to help one in certain or key ways,  but in comparison too advanced to spend all their time with a beginner or intermediate who should be aware of and appreciate that and not impinge on them.  Same with Deities that can help in certain and key ways but a student should not make an immature assumption that they would suddenly be at that stage of evolution. 

Edited July 14, 2022 by old3bob

[steve]

10 hours ago, old3bob said:

What if your teacher is too advanced for you?  

comments?

 

One way to look at it is the teacher should always be too advanced for you.

If there is a disconnect, a problem learning, the question is whether they are able and willing to teach at a level you can learn. 

The more advanced the teacher, the more easily they should be able to teach at any level, even at multiple levels simultaneously.

IMO, the best teacher teaches to the least experienced person in the group.

The more advanced students are expected to learn from everything, even the most basic instructions, you can never get enough of the basics if you want to master the advanced levels in most disciplines.

I agree that if the teacher wants to focus on something not appropriate for beginners, it is always an option to exclude beginners from the teaching and perhaps have senior students work with that person.

 

If you're not learning it is not because the teacher is too advanced, more likely they are not advanced enough. 

Also important to look at the student and the student teacher relationship.

Not all relationships are a good fit, maybe a different teacher is needed.

Not all students know how to learn, that is an art in and of itself.

One of the greatest lessons I learned from my neijia master was how to learn. 

He taught very clearly and patiently to beginners, pushed intermediates to their limit and challenged advanced students to keep up.

Teaching is an art that is only in part related to the subject matter. 

Not only does it deepen one's understanding of and relationship to the subject matter but develops another skill set that can be applied across multiple disciplines. 

[Master Logray]

If Einstein or Stephen Hawking go to teach in kindergarten, would they be good teachers? 

 

 

[old3bob]

well the words, "too advanced" may have some iffy connotations, perhaps saying that a teacher should be further along than their student on certain things enables them to help...although a good teacher will also say that they learn certain things from their students.   Anyway there is a natural hierarchy not to be discounted, thus respected; along with taking into account the saying about not lording it over on others which is located somewhere it the T.T.C. that I don't remember at the moment...

Edited July 14, 2022 by old3bob

[C T]

An ideal (spiritual) teacher is only ideal insofar as he or she fulfills the role of a conduit, a channel of potential by which an initiate can tap into as a means to access a vaster, maybe even limitless spiritual possibility within. Imo, that is the primary role of a spiritual guide. How much is tapped is dependent more on the novice's capability - mediocre, intermediate, evolved - not so much on the teacher's level of awakening.

 

For the sake of comparison, some coaches to world class swimmers aren't especially skilled swimmers themselves. Same applies to many other fields, but especially noted in the sporting arena. Maybe the reason they make the grade as exceptional coaches is that they have something radical to offer a particular athlete(s) that other coaches lack? And this perhaps has nothing to do with specific skills, but a deeper understanding of the overall dynamics of what makes an athlete special, and are able to transmit that belief efficiently. Does this make the better coaches more advanced? Whats the measure? Surely the answer lies in the result and performance of the person under their tutelage.

Edited July 14, 2022 by C T

[old3bob]

...also as a mirror.  and that mirror may not be to easy to look at (and could act like instant karma coming back to ya) ....yet still show a way through.

Edited July 14, 2022 by old3bob

[steve]

It’s also a little tricky to discuss the question in very general terms. Teaching what? to whom? these things certainly make a difference.

[steve]

2 hours ago, Master Logray said:

If Einstein or Stephen Hawking go to teach in kindergarten, would they be good teachers? 

 

 

Wouldn’t it be fun to watch each of them try? 

[Cobie]

.

Edited June 21, 2023 by Cobie

[Nungali]

10 hours ago, steve said:

 

One way to look at it is the teacher should always be too advanced for you.

If there is a disconnect, a problem learning, the question is whether they are able and willing to teach at a level you can learn. 

The more advanced the teacher, the more easily they should be able to teach at any level, even at multiple levels simultaneously.

IMO, the best teacher teaches to the least experienced person in the group.

The more advanced students are expected to learn from everything, even the most basic instructions, you can never get enough of the basics if you want to master the advanced levels in most disciplines.

I agree that if the teacher wants to focus on something not appropriate for beginners, it is always an option to exclude beginners from the teaching and perhaps have senior students work with that person.

 

If you're not learning it is not because the teacher is too advanced, more likely they are not advanced enough. 

Also important to look at the student and the student teacher relationship.

Not all relationships are a good fit, maybe a different teacher is needed.

Not all students know how to learn, that is an art in and of itself.

One of the greatest lessons I learned from my neijia master was how to learn. 

He taught very clearly and patiently to beginners, pushed intermediates to their limit and challenged advanced students to keep up.

Teaching is an art that is only in part related to the subject matter. 

Not only does it deepen one's understanding of and relationship to the subject matter but develops another skill set that can be applied across multiple disciplines. 

 

Oh boy have I been dealing with that one for years on end !  To the point that now I am virtually scolding  my martial arts 'instructor'  - he might know how to do martial arts, but as far as teaching goes - forget it !

 

" Dont you realise that people have all different types of learning modes ?  Its supposed to be about teaching people, not racing ahead  to finish first and leaving everyone else behind .  That's why people drop out , you keep complaining about students leaving ,  well, what are they supposed to do , I am taking people aside and teaching them myself because they cant learn things from you , its so frustrating , how did you ever ....   "

 

 

[Nungali]

5 hours ago, steve said:

Wouldn’t it be fun to watch each of them try? 

 

You nasty man !

 

...  wanting to watch poor Hawking  trying to help change a kids pants that had an 'accident' .  

 

 

[steve]

8 hours ago, Master Logray said:

If Einstein or Stephen Hawking go to teach in kindergarten, would they be good teachers? 

 

 

 

 

[Gerard]

Ask that question to a Thai or Burmese Ajahn.

 

 

[old3bob]

well we've mostly been describing positive types of teachers yet there is also a hell of a lot to be learned from negative types of stuff,  (usually in hindsight) although I wouldn't wish such on anyone...  for instance and a hard one is knowing betrayal, and also that most of us have had part in betrayed in one way or another.

Edited July 16, 2022 by old3bob

[CozySpace]

What if the student is too advanced for the teacher?

[old3bob]

47 minutes ago, CozySpace said:

What if the student is too advanced for the teacher?

 

 

well besides "advanced" many decent people fell hard for fakes like Osho,  (and dozens of others over the years) thus the sheep will not always remain so among the wolves.

[steve]

57 minutes ago, CozySpace said:

What if the student is too advanced for the teacher?

 

I think they generally realize it early and move on