The reason why a person who only has qi in his lower abdomen can't understand the Huang Tingjing

[awaken]

把下腹部的氣，往上拉到胸部，這個現象就是氣的行走而已

不是開發中丹田

搬運法的謬誤之一，就是以為氣到了胸口就是打開中丹田了

 

我的老天，這也誤會太深了吧

 

Pull the qi in the lower abdomen up to the chest, this phenomenon is just the walking of qi

Not a developing middle dantian

One of the fallacies of the transfer method is to think that when you get Qi to your chest, you will open the middle dantian.

My Godness Heaven, this is too much misunderstood.

 

中丹田的開啟來自於恍惚的進化

沒有恍惚，就沒有中丹田的開啟

中丹田的開啟絕對跟下腹部的氣往胸部上拉毫無關係

 

The opening of the middle dantian comes from the evolution of trance

If there is no trance, there will be no opening of the middle dantian

The opening of the middle dantian has absolutely nothing to do with the qi in the lower abdomen pulling up to the chest

[Iskote]

On 5/25/2022 at 8:23 AM, awaken said:

這就是丹道的修煉過程

但是這裡太多人的價值觀被嚴重的扭曲

不是卡在氣的體感

就是卡在烏肝光的視覺

對於丹道的修煉進程，完全無知

也完全無法接受 

 

This is the cultivation process of Dan Dao
But the values of too many people here are seriously distorted
Not the feeling of being stuck in the air
It is the vision stuck in the black liver light
Completely ignorant of the cultivation process of Dan Dao
totally unacceptable

 

Dear Awaken,  
From what I have seen over the years, there are various different practices and approaches under the banner of daoism which may be referred to as self cultivation and alchemy practices. In my view, it therefore seems unwise to make broad generalizations about such different practices. Each different school/sect would typically have their own different types and variations in practices and views and goals. Some may include a number of different practices and approaches, such as different practices and views focused towards cultivation of body, mind, and 'spirit', and some also include religious practices and views, as well. 

 

Can you explain in simple and straightforward language an overview of what your practice involves, and what are the specific benefits you believe you have achieved from your practices? 
Personally, I don't find  cryptic symbolism about 'crow liver' and 'rabbit marrow' as being very meaningful and helpful at all.  

From your experience, what do these things actually represent in practical terms and in straightforward language? 
What are the specific goals of what you practice? 

 

All the best. 

 

Edited May 26, 2022 by Iskote

[Cobie]

On 21/05/2022 at 12:43 PM, awaken said:

… 故作神秘 …

 

… pretend to be mysterious.

 That’s what DDJ chapter 1 does imo, with it’s ‘玄玄之又玄’ 

 

 

Edited May 27, 2022 by Cobie

[Cobie]

On 26/05/2022 at 2:28 PM, awaken said:

… 中丹田的開 啟來自於恍惚的進化

沒有恍惚，就沒有中丹田的開啟 …

 

… The opening of the middle dantian comes from the evolution of trance

If there is no trance, there will be no opening of the middle dantian …

Yes, that has been my experience too.

 

~~~

恍惚 huǎnghū - trance

 

 

Edited May 27, 2022 by Cobie

[Nintendao]

2 hours ago, Iskote said:

 

Dear Awaken,  
From what I have seen over the years, there are various different practices and approaches under the banner of daoism which may be referred to as self cultivation and alchemy practices. In my view, it therefore seems unwise to make broad generalizations about such different practices. Each different school/sect would typically have their own different types and variations in practices and views and goals. Some may include a number of different practices and approaches, such as different practices and views focused towards cultivation of body, mind, and 'spirit', and some also include religious practices and views, as well. 

 

Can you explain in simple and straightforward language an overview of what your practice involves, and what are the specific benefits you believe you have achieved from your practices? 
Personally, I don't find  cryptic symbolism about 'crow liver' and 'rabbit marrow' as being very meaningful and helpful at all.  

From your experience, what do these things actually represent in practical terms and in straightforward language? 
What are the specific goals of what you practice? 

 

All the best. 

 

what are you arguing about? Have you not researched enough on you own? Rabbit Marrow is Moon Core. Black River is the Solar Guts. The Crow.

 

[Cheshire Cat]

7 hours ago, Nintendao said:

what are you arguing about? Have you not researched enough on you own? Rabbit Marrow is Moon Core. Black River is the Solar Guts. The Crow.

 

 

At some point, we should discuss the Fox Tail and the Tortoise Neck as well.

[awaken]

所以才說你如果要懂中國丹道，你就要看中國丹經

你如果只知道聽氣功假大師吹牛

你永遠搞不懂中國丹道到底在講什麼

 

看不懂中文，就自己去找英文翻譯

 

悟真篇

 

That's why I said that if you want to understand Chinese alchemy, you have to read the Chinese alchemy scriptures.

If you only know how to listen to fake qigong masters bragging

You will never understand what the Chinese Dan Tao is talking about

If you don't understand Chinese, you can find an English translation by yourself

 

 

Wu Zen Pian

 

先把乾坤為鼎器，次將烏兔藥來烹。

既驅二物歸黃道，爭得金丹不解生。

 

玄牝之門世罕知，休將口鼻妄施為。

饒君吐納經千載，爭得金烏搦兔兒。

 

牛女情缘道合，龟蛇类秉天然。蟾乌遇朔合婵娟。二气相资运转。

總是乾坤妙用，誰人達此真詮。隂陽否隔即成愆，怎得天長地逺。

 

https://zh.wikisource.org/wiki/悟真篇

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wuzhen_pian

 

烏肝兔髓在黃庭經當中的同義詞就是『魂魄』

烏肝 ＝ 魂

兔髓 ＝ 魄

這是丹道修煉的核心

 

The synonym of black liver and rabbit marrow in Huang Ting Jing is Hun-Pau

black liver = Hun

Rabbit marrow = Pau

This is the core of alchemy 

 

 如果你想要自創名詞，那你得寫出一本夠份量的丹經

If you want to create your own nouns, then you have to write a substantial book of alchemy

 

悟真篇是一千年前的文章，如果你能寫出一本流傳一千年都還能夠被當成經典的書，相信你的自創名詞會流芳萬世的

 

Wuzhen is an article from a thousand years ago. If you can write a book that can be regarded as a classic for a thousand years, I believe that your own name will be popular for generations

Edited May 27, 2022 by awaken

[awaken]

昨天有人說『把鉛汞放進鼎中』

這是完全錯誤的

因為鉛汞必須交互作用之後，才能產生鼎

鉛汞交互作用之後，產生了烏肝，烏肝所在的位置就是鼎

所以在鉛汞交互作用之前，鼎是不存在的

因此『鉛汞放入鼎中』是完全錯誤的

 

 

先把乾坤為鼎器，次將烏兔藥來烹。

 

悟真篇這兩句話，很明白說了，先有乾坤，才有鼎，才有烏兔

Yesterday someone said "put lead and mercury into the tripod"

This is completely wrong

Because lead and mercury must interact before they can produce tripods

After the interaction of lead and mercury, black liver is produced, and the location of black liver is the tripod.

So before the interaction of lead and mercury, the tripod did not exist

Therefore, "Put the lead and mercury into the tripod" is completely wrong

First use the Qian-kun as a tripod vessel, and secondly use the black rabbit medicine to cook.

In the two sentences of Wuzhen, it is very clear that there is Qian-kun first, then there is the tripod, and then there is the black (liver) (and) rabbit (marrow).

[Earl Grey]

9 hours ago, Nintendao said:

what are you arguing about? Have you not researched enough on you own? Rabbit Marrow is Moon Core. Black River is the Solar Guts. The Crow.

 

 

Yes, Bumblebee Tuna.

[Cobie]

4 hours ago, awaken said:

… 悟真篇 … Wu Zen Pian …

 

Wu Zen Pian.
 

悟真 wu4 zhen1 - true realisation 

篇 pian1 piece of writing

 

 

Edited May 27, 2022 by Cobie

[Cobie]

14 hours ago, awaken said:

…

烏肝兔髓在黃庭經當中的同義詞就是『魂魄』

這是丹道修煉的核心

 

The synonym of black liver and rabbit marrow in Huang Ting Jing is Hun-Pau …

This is the core of alchemy 

…

I agree. : )

 

~~~
核心 he2 xin1 - core

核 - nucleus 
 

 

 

 

Edited May 27, 2022 by Cobie

[Iskote]

9 hours ago, awaken said:

That's why I said that if you want to understand Chinese alchemy, you have to read the Chinese alchemy scriptures.

 

 

The real meanings in old alchemy writings are well known to be intentionally hidden behind much symbolism. Therefore reading such texts without direct guidance and explanations from an accomplished teacher is typically advised against, in my experience. Exchanging one level of symbolism with yet another is of no real practical use, IMO, and is not an explanation of the actual underlying concepts. 

 

Dear Awaken, since you have been unable to explain those concepts in straight forward language, which you keep insisting no one here understands, and are apparently not able to even explain what the goal of what you practice is, I have the answers to my questions. Thank you for your time. Best wishes.   

 

For anyone out there interested in internal alchemy practices, attempting to follow such old alchemy writings by taking the writings literally, or thinking that you are clever enough to figure it out yourself on your own, is not advisable, IMO. To each their own, however.   Whatever path we each may choose to walk at any point in time, we are still walking a path. There are always lessons to be learned along the way. We all have our own lessons to learn in our own way. Who is to say in the end what is ultimately of value, and what is not? I certainly don't know.  

 

 

 

Edited May 27, 2022 by Iskote

[liminal_luke]

Like many others, I also find awaken's posts difficult to understand, even cryptic.  My sense is that if one really wants to know what she's talking about the only real way is to train with her.  Or not. There's not much use arguing on the internet about such things.  I'm curious but disqualified at the moment as I'm not ready to let go of the other practices I do.

[Shadow_self]

14 minutes ago, liminal_luke said:

Like many others, I also find awaken's posts difficult to understand, even cryptic.  My sense is that if one really wants to know what she's talking about the only real way is to train with her.  Or not. There's not much use arguing on the internet about such things.  I'm curious but disqualified at the moment as I'm not ready to let go of the other practices I do.

 

I am starting to understand what she is talking about...but it is extremely difficult

 

@awakenIf I am correct, you are using a slightly altered version of the terminology and that is why im getting confused

 

You do not mean the rabbit and the crow...

 

You mean the hare and the raven, correct?

 

The hare resides in the moon, while the raven resides in the red sun

 

Does this sound familiar to you? 

 

 

[Shadow_self]

Yes, I can understand what is posting now after reading a bit...but a lot is getting lost in translation...

 

@awaken If you can shorten your posts a bit, I might be able to have this conversation

 

Lets take it slowly

 

So point number #1

 

You do not use Qian and Kun as a tripod

 

You revert Kan and Li (Postheaven) to their respective Qian and Kun (Preheaven) 

 

Correct?

 

Before we start the process of interactions...the desires (Kan) and Emotions/Mind (Li) must be settled

 

Then we can talk about mixing Kan and Li, and reverting them to Qian and Kun

Edited May 27, 2022 by Shadow_self

[Cobie]

@awaken  Thanks for posting in characters, I prefer it now.

[Cobie]

moved to my PPD

Edited May 27, 2022 by Cobie

[Nintendao]

17 hours ago, Earl Grey said:

 

Yes, Bumblebee Tuna.

Spoiler

 

 

 

[Cheshire Cat]

I was being ironic. Fox tail, tortoise neck, black pearl... what's the use of expedient names?

 

There are those who like secrecy and never talk about their methods and there are those who are very open, sharing everything they know.

It's fine. There are sound reasons for them all.

 

But then, there are those who talk about their method, but deliberately making it impossible to understand by the use of metaphors, codenames and omissions. This is done for the sole purpose of demonstrating one's knowledge to others who already know.

That's why I think daoist alchemy is not meant for me.

 

But I have an interest in spiritual cultivation and that could be discussed plainly in simple terms.

[Shadow_self]

13 minutes ago, Cheshire Cat said:

I was being ironic. Fox tail, tortoise neck, black pearl... what's the use of expedient names?

 

There are those who like secrecy and never talk about their methods and there are those who are very open, sharing everything they know.

It's fine. There are sound reasons for them all.

 

But then, there are those who talk about their method, but deliberately making it impossible to understand by the use of metaphors, codenames and omissions. This is done for the sole purpose of demonstrating one's knowledge to others who already know.

That's why I think daoist alchemy is not meant for me.

 

But I have an interest in spiritual cultivation and that could be discussed plainly in simple terms.

 

Neidan terminology is deliberately cryptic....it is hard to decipher without a teacher.

 

By teacher I mean one specifically who teaches Neidan. TCM, Qigong, Neigong, Martial arts...none of these will  suffice because the terminology of Neidan is extremely specific and very confusing without good guidance

 

For example, someone examining the Wu Xing from a TCM perspective would be confused, because it is different in Neidan

 

So

 

Fire Births Earth In TCM,

 

In Neidan, Fire Births Metal

 

Hers another example. In Neidan..North is actually South,  South is North, East is West and West is East  

 

Sounds crazy, but the logic is coherent once you understand why it is presented this way

 

 

[Michael Sternbach]

Well, if you wish to understand advanced concepts of physics, you need to learn the terminology too 🤷‍♂️

[-ꦥꦏ꧀ ꦱꦠꦿꦶꦪꦺꦴ-]

1 hour ago, Cheshire Cat said:

That's why I think daoist alchemy is not meant for me.

 

But I have an interest in spiritual cultivation and that could be discussed plainly in simple terms.

Not all Daoist alchemy is like this though. There are many good people you can learn from on this site that explain things in very simple unpretentious terms. They just aren't as vocal and spam the board daily. 

[Master Logray]

5 hours ago, Cheshire Cat said:

That's why I think daoist alchemy is not meant for me.

 

But I have an interest in spiritual cultivation and that could be discussed plainly in simple terms.

 

It is not a bad thinking.  The body related part of alchemy (Ming) really needs a teacher, to explain the terms, to tell the many important details.  The "spiritual"/mind part (Xing) is said to be even able to be self-learn.  But both are necessary otherwise results are limited.

 

 

 

 

[Shadow_self]

47 minutes ago, Master Logray said:

 

It is not a bad thinking.  The body related part of alchemy (Ming) really needs a teacher, to explain the terms, to tell the many important details.  The "spiritual"/mind part (Xing) is said to be even able to be self-learn.  But both are necessary otherwise results are limited.

 

 

 

 

 

I think a lot of people miss that point, that alchemy has both Xing and Ming practices

 

I have  also seen a lot of people confuse Neigong for Neidan...when they are not the same thing

Edited May 28, 2022 by Shadow_self

[Master Logray]

35 minutes ago, Shadow_self said:

I have  also seen a lot of people confuse Neigong for Neidan...when they are not the same thing

 

If they are translated into English terms, it would be much easier.  But the mysterious power of using foreign words is lost.