awaken

搬運法的謬誤Fallacy of the Carrying method

Recommended Posts

10 hours ago, awaken said:

 

感謝你的感謝,其實你不用感謝我,因為我是被另外一個管理員要求,才不得不附上英文,我是不得已的,我是被逼的,人在屋簷下,不得不低頭。

 

Thank you for your thanks, in fact, you don't have to thank me, because I was asked by another administrator, so I had to attach English. I was forced to, and I had to bow my head under the eaves.

 

 


Site moderation makes adjustments for the purpose of a smoother running site.

There is no rule requiring you to add English translation.

It is your choice. This has been discussed by mods. And the lean is not requiring an accompanying English Translation. For now, at least.

 

On the other hand, if you are trying to reach a larger audience and desire a smoother flow in your threads; adding the English translation seems to make sense.

 

Your choice.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
13 hours ago, zerostao said:


Site moderation makes adjustments for the purpose of a smoother running site.

There is no rule requiring you to add English translation.

It is your choice. This has been discussed by mods. And the lean is not requiring an accompanying English Translation. For now, at least.

 

On the other hand, if you are trying to reach a larger audience and desire a smoother flow in your threads; adding the English translation seems to make sense.

 

Your choice.

 

非常感謝你告知這項決定,這讓我覺得鬆了一口氣。

也就是以後如果我貼了英文翻譯,那是我的選擇,而不是被逼的,雖然結果一樣,但是心情卻大不相同。

 

Thank you so much for informing me of this decision, it brings me a sigh of relief.

That is to say, if I post an English translation in the future, it is my choice, not forced. Although the result is the same, the mood is very different.

  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
56 minutes ago, awaken said:

 

非常感謝你告知這項決定,這讓我覺得鬆了一口氣。

也就是以後如果我貼了英文翻譯,那是我的選擇,而不是被逼的,雖然結果一樣,但是心情卻大不相同。

 

Thank you so much for informing me of this decision, it brings me a sigh of relief.

That is to say, if I post an English translation in the future, it is my choice, not forced. Although the result is the same, the mood is very different.

 

You're welcome !

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
乾坤者,易之門戶,眾卦之父母。坎離匡廓,運轂正軸,牝牡四卦,以為橐籥。覆冒陰陽之道,尤工御者準繩墨,執銜轡,正規距,隨軌轍,處中以制外,數在律歷紀。月節有五六,經緯奉日使,兼並為六十,剛柔有表裏。朔旦屯直事,至暮蒙當受,晝夜各一卦用之依次序。即未至晦爽,終則復更始,日月為期度,動靜有早晚。春夏據內體,從子到辰巳,秋冬當外用,自午訖戌亥。賞罰應春秋,昏明順寒暑,爻辭有仁義,隨時發喜怒,如是應四時,五行得其理。

 

Qiankun, the gateway of change, the parents of all hexagrams. The ridge is away from the Kuangkuo, the shaft is transported on the positive axis, and the four hexagrams of the female and the male are thought to be the scorpion. Reversing the way of yin and yang, you are the master of the line, holding the bridle, the regular distance, following the track, and managing the outside, and the number is in the law and calendar. There are five or six moon festivals, and the latitude and longitude are envoys from the sun, and they are merged into sixty. Shuodan Tun is a direct matter, and it should be accepted until dusk, and a hexagram is used in the order of day and night. That is to say, it is not dark, but it will be renewed at the end. The sun and the moon are degrees, and there are mornings and evenings. Spring and summer according to the internal body, from Zi to Chensi, autumn and winter as external use, from noon to Xuhai. Rewards and punishments should be in the spring and autumn, twilight and light in the cold and summer, the lines of speech have benevolence and righteousness, and joy and anger should be expressed at any time.

 

這是周易參同契的第一段,我不知道google會翻譯成什麼奇怪的東西。

 

This is the first paragraph of Zhouyi Shentongqi, I don't know what strange things google will translate into.

 

不過各位可以看到,周易參同契第一個講的就是乾坤,也就是陰陽,乾坤就是易的門戶,易就是易經。

 

But as you can see, the first thing Zhou Yican Tongqi talks about is Qiankun, that is, Yin and Yang, Qiankun is the gateway to change, and Yi is the Book of Changes.

 

也就是在道家修煉當中,第一個要學會的就是陰陽,而不是累積精氣。

這個是道家非常核心的概念,但是卻被搬運法嚴重扭曲了,還把周易參同契歸類為密宗類型,這實在非常不應該。自己練不出來,導致看不懂周易參同契也就算了。不知道慚愧也就算了。還把周易參同契給架空了。這是非常不得了的錯誤示範。一個假大師所造出來的孽,傷害了千千萬萬的實修者。

 

That is, in Taoist cultivation, the first thing to learn is yin and yang, rather than accumulating essence.

This is a very core concept of Taoism, but it has been seriously distorted by the transfer method, and it is really inappropriate to classify Zhouyi Shentongqi as a Tantric type. If you can't practice it yourself, it's okay if you can't understand Zhou Yishen Tongqi. Don't know how to be ashamed. It also made Zhou Yishen the same contract. This is a very bad example of error. The evil done by a false master has hurt thousands of practitioners.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

搬運法還有一個很大的謬誤,就是把玄關當成下丹田。

這是非常要命的錯誤。

整個丹道的修煉都在玄關。

而搬運法卻連玄關在哪裡都弄錯。

 

There is also a big fallacy in the transport method, that is, the Xiuanguan is regarded as the lower dantian.

This is a very fatal mistake.

The entire cultivation of Dan Dao is at the Xiuanguan.

However, the transportation method even got the Xiuanguan to the wrong place.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

莊子知北游:『夫昭昭生於冥冥』這句話非常重要。這句話和周易參同契的『昏久則昭明』有著異曲同工之妙。

這講的就是丹道當中陰陽反覆的道理。

搬運法練陽不練陰,後天意識死守呼吸。因此無法鬆開『心竅』進入『杳冥』狀態,更別說產生『昭明』了。

 

Zhuangzi : the north journey of the wise man: "Fu Zhaozhao was born in the trance" is very important. This sentence is similar to that of Zhou Yishen's "trance long  will turn to be bright".

This is about the principle of yin and yang in the Tao of alchemy.

The transfer method is to practice yang but not yin, and the acquired consciousness sticks to the breath. Therefore, it is impossible to release the "Heart Aperture" and enter the state of "Yao Ming", let alone produce "Zhao Ming".

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)

搬運法一個很大的問題,就是用後天意識模仿先天氣的運行方向。

這種模仿雖然可以得到類似的效果,但是卻造成的意識演化的障礙。

而丹道的修煉,一向都是以練神為主軸。

這種後天意識的干預,造成了神的演化障礙。

因此無法練出先天元神。

而這對丹道來說,是非常嚴重的問題。

 

A big problem with the handling method is to use acquired consciousness to imitate the running direction of innate weather.

Although this kind of imitation can achieve similar effects, it creates obstacles to the evolution of consciousness.

And the cultivation of alchemy has always been based on the practice of Shen.

The intervention of this acquired consciousness creates an obstacle to the evolution of Shen.

Therefore, it is impossible to train the innate soul.

And this is a very serious problem for Dan Dao.

Edited by awaken

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

這裡很多練氣功的人都在追求強烈的氣感。

但是這些人可能不知道,氣感越強,表示阻力越大。

因為經脈不通,所以感覺比通暢更加強烈。

真正打通經脈的人,氣感是不明顯的,而且很快就進入烏肝狀態。

 

Many qigong practitioners here are pursuing a strong sense of qi.

But these people may not know that the stronger the sense of qi, the greater the resistance.

Because the meridians are blocked, the feeling is stronger than that of patency.

People who really open up the meridians have no obvious sense of qi, and soon enter the state of black liver.

 

這些練氣功的人,完全違反道家修煉的原則。

把陰陽反覆當成垃圾。

把追求強烈氣感當成目標。

怎麼還有臉說自己是道家修煉者?

 

 

These qigong practitioners completely violate the principles of Taoist cultivation.

Treat yin and yang as garbage.

Make it a goal to pursue a strong sense of breath.

How can you still have the face to say that you are a Taoist cultivator?

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

搬運法還有一個很荒謬的氣感認知。

他們會認為氣從下腹部往心輪移動,甚至往頭頂移動,只要在身體的正中間,就是kundalini

這些人不知道,真正的kundalini的程序是什麼

真正的kundalini並非直接氣感從下腹部往頭上衝。

而是氣感之後,產生烏肝。

透過烏肝,產生兔髓。

透過兔髓,開始進入開啟心竅的程序。

當心竅完全開啟之後,就會進入移爐換鼎的程序。

也就是練功的起點已經不再是氣了。

而是二禪。

而練功的終點則是陽生的演化。

當陽生達到三階段的時候,才會產生一股下腹部上升的氣。

這股氣的產生是在虛空狀態才能產生。

而且時間很短。

很快就進入三階段陽生。

但是搬運法可笑的把最初級的氣感當成三階段陽生的kundalini

最可笑的是,竟然沒什麼人知道真相。

實在太誇張了。

 

There is also a very absurd sense of Qi perception in the handling method.

They will think that the Qi moves from the lower abdomen to the heart chakra, or even to the top of the head, as long as it is in the middle of the body, it is kundalini

These people don't know what the real kundalini process is

A real kundalini is not a direct sensation of qi rushing from the lower abdomen to the head.

But after the sense of qi, black liver is produced.

Through black liver, rabbit marrow is produced.

Through the rabbit marrow, start the process of opening the heart.

When the heart orifice is fully opened, it will enter the process of moving the furnace and changing the cauldron.

In other words, the starting point of practice is no longer qi.

It is the second Zen.

The end point of practice is the evolution of Yang Sheng.

When Yang Sheng reaches the third stage, there will be a rising Qi in the lower abdomen.

The generation of this qi can only be generated in a void state.

And the time is short.

It will soon enter the third stage of yangsheng.

But the transport method is ridiculous and regards the most elementary sense of air as a three-stage yang kundalini

The most ridiculous thing is that no one knows the truth.

It's an exaggeration.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

想要看懂道家經典,一定要放棄氣轉丹田的作法。

否則一輩子都看不懂道家經典。

 

道法自然。

真常需應物。

 

所有一切的道家經典,直指一個真相。

 

這個真相就是現象是自然產生的,非後天人為控制的。

 

所以如果你在練習時,對你的後天人為控制絲毫沒有覺知。那你練一輩子也很難練出道家的精華。

 

If you want to understand the Taoist classics, you must give up the practice of turning qi to Dantian.

Otherwise, you will never understand the Taoist classics for the rest of your life.

Taoism is natural.

Really need something.

All the Taoist classics point directly to a truth.

The truth is that phenomena arise naturally and are not artificially controlled.

So if you are practising without any awareness of your acquired artificial control. Then it is difficult for you to practice the essence of Taoism for a lifetime.

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

中国丹道真正筑基法

...,

栽接法与清静法相比,前者是顿法,后者属渐法,前者行功,纯赖外力,非有福德因缘不行,后者行功,只要勤奋,大可自力更生;前者的行功层次,是筑基、得药、结丹、炼己,后者则必先炼己,始可筑基、得药。前者是术,如作化学实验,差毫发,不成丹;后者是道,道法自然,故入手即要还虚。此两者讲阴阳虽同,外表名词也一样,实际上内容迥别,是截然不同的两个途径,两种法门。 
...,
栽接法的筑基,是没有周天的。必须筑基已成就,有药可得,为了迎外铅以制内汞,方行开通三关于前。其通也,亦纯是外力作用。北派将性立命,则首须性功圆成,即《天仙正理》所谓“最初还虚”,于虚寂之中调药采微阳,真至小药发生,方有河车之验,即是小周天。

...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

真正的丹田不是下腹部,而是玄關。

玄關才能產生丹

丹道裡面真正的丹,是從烏肝開始算起

烏肝

兔髓

黍米

金丹

 

不能把腹部跳動的氣當成丹

因為在丹道當中

腹部跳動的氣從來都不是丹

 

The real dantian is not the lower abdomen, but the entrance.

Entrance can produce Dan

The real Dan in Dan Dao starts from black liver

black liver

Rabbit marrow

millet

Jindan

Don't take the beating Qi of your belly as Dan

Because in Dan Dao

The belly throbbing Qi is never Dan

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

搬運法只知道任督小周天

 

甚至把氣入骨髓當成最高成就之一

 

但是在無為法當中

 

氣入骨髓只是其中一個過程

 

而且氣入骨髓不是只有在督脈的氣感

 

真正的氣入骨髓是連胸骨和肋骨都會有酥麻軟的覺受

 

自發產生

 

The handling method only knows Ren Du Xiao Zhoutian

Even taking qi into the bone marrow as one of the highest achievements

But in inaction

Qi into the bone marrow is just one of the processes

Moreover, the qi entering the bone marrow is not only in the sense of qi in the Du meridian.

The real qi entering the bone marrow is that even the sternum and ribs will feel numb and soft

spontaneously generated

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

我看到一堆人為了追逐氣在脊椎當中運行而趨之若鶩

 

對於烏肝兔髓卻絲毫沒有興趣

 

實在相當感嘆

 

就像莊子逍遙遊之感嘆

 

I see a bunch of people chasing qi running through the spine

I have no interest in black liver and rabbit marrow

It's really amazing

Just like the exclamation of Zhuangzi's wandering

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

搬運法的笑話還有兩個

 

有的人練了搬運法,把氣卡在下腹部之後,產生了圓形的烏肝,就會把這個圓形的橘色烏肝當成金丹

 

有的人練了搬運法之後,氣衝上頭,就當成大周天

而氣衝上頭的現象則很容易導致欲界幻境,欲界幻境當中有一種內景,跟太陽一模一樣,非常刺眼的太陽亮光,還有很長的光芒,這種人也會把欲界幻境當中的太陽當成金丹

 

不管是哪一種,都不是金丹

 

There are two more jokes about the handling method

Some people have practiced the transfer method, and after trapping the qi in the lower abdomen, a round black liver is formed, and this round orange black liver is regarded as a golden elixir.

After some people practiced the handling method, their Qi rushed to their head, and they regarded it as a big Zhoutian.

 

 

The phenomenon of qi rushing to the head can easily lead to the illusion of the desire world.
There is an interior scene in the fantasy world of desire,
Just like the sun,
The bright sun shines very brightly,
And a long light,
This kind of person will also regard the sun in the illusion of the desire world as a golden elixir

 

Either way, it's not a golden elixir

 

 

最糟糕的是那種連什麼光都沒有的,那個是心靈得多扭曲才能練到完全都沒光啊

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)

搬運法還有一個笑話,叫做傳承

 

在QQ大家都知道,傳承就是用來騙人賣錢的

 

販賣傳承的特徵就是喜歡釣人胃口,話都說一半

 

因為剩下那一半要給錢才會講

 

而且金錢的數量都是幾萬起跳

 

There is also a joke about the handling method, called inheritance

Everyone in QQ knows that inheritance is used to deceive people and sell money.

The characteristic of selling inheritance is that they like to catch people's appetite, and they say half of the words.

Because the remaining half has to be paid to talk about

And the amount of money is in the tens of thousands

 

由於搬運法以利益起家,因此什麼事情都幹得出來

偽造經典是家常便飯

竄改經典更是層出不窮

許多經典都遭到被竄改的命運

Since the porter method is based on profit, it can do anything

Fake classics are the norm

Tampering with classics is endless

Many classics have been tampered with

 

Edited by awaken

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

搬運者定義的四禪確實和阿含經的四禪定不同

 

如果你有看過阿含經,你就會知道問題在哪裡,而不是以一種自我主義中心的角度來看這件事情

 

 

The four jhānas defined by the transfer method practicer are indeed different from the four jhānas in the Agam Sutra.

If you have read the Agama Sutra, you will know what the problem is, rather than looking at it from an egocentric perspective

 

阿含經定義很清楚的一心境,在搬運法的定義當中並不存在

甚至搬運法定義的禪那,就是伍柳的定義,喜歡講『脈住』『息住』這類以身體氣機反應來做定義,但是在阿含經當中,是沒有『脈住』這種定義的

 

One state of mind, which is clearly defined in the Agama Sutra, does not exist in the definition of the transfer method.

Even the jhana defined by the transfer method is Wuliu's definition. They likes to talk about "cessation of pulse“ and " cessation of breathing” and other definitions based on the body's qi response, but in the Ahan Sutra, there is no such thing as "cessation of pulse" 

 

搬運法講二禪是『息住』,也就是停止呼吸的意思,根據的是呼吸

但是阿含經定義的二禪是『無尋無伺』,根據的是意念的型態

這兩種定義完全不同

 

而且搬運法定義的二禪,在丹經定義中從未出現過

 

According to the transfer method, the second meditation is "breathing stop". It is based on breathing.

However, the second jhana defined in the Agama Sutra is "no vitakka and no vicāra", which is based on the pattern of attention(mind)

These two definitions are completely different

 

Moreover, the second Zen defined by the transfer method has never appeared in the definition of the alchemy scriptures.

 

阿含經當中『無尋無伺』是二禪的重點

從初禪開始的『有尋有伺』,到二禪的『無尋無伺』,講的都是意識心的狀態

從可移動的『有尋有伺』,慢慢改變成不可移動的『無尋無伺』

都沒有講到搬運法所說的『息住』

 

阿含經是根據意識心的狀態來定義二禪,搬運法卻是根據呼吸來定義二禪,兩者差別非常大

可以說搬運法練習者,自己定義了一套二禪的定義,改變了二禪的內容,卻和最原始的阿含經完全不同

 

https://4ariyasacc2.wordpress.com/2015/12/30/初禪中的「尋」與「伺」/

 

In the Agama Sutra, "no searching and no waiting" is the focus of the second meditation

From the first jhāna "with searching and waiting" to the second jhāna "without searching and without waiting", all are about the state of the conscious mind.

From movable "with searching and waiting", slowly changing to immovable "no searching and no waiting"

There is no mention of the "breath stoping" mentioned in the transfer method.

The Ahan Sutra defines the second meditation according to the state of the conscious mind, but the transfer method defines the second meditation according to the breath. The difference between the two is very big.

It can be said that the practitioners of the transfer method have defined a set of definitions of the second jhana and changed the content of the second jhana, but they are completely different from the most primitive Ahan Sutra.

 

搬運法以練氣為主要核心

阿含經以練意識心的轉變為主要核心,這和古代丹經以練神的轉變為主要核心是相同的

烏肝日魂,兔髓月魄,都是屬於練神的轉變

也就是說阿含經的禪定定義和丹經的禪定定義是相同的,都是來自意識心的轉化

但是卻都和搬運法不同,搬運法是來自身體氣感的轉化

 

The transportation method is based on practicing Qi as the main core

The main core of the Ahan Sutra is to practice the transformation of consciousness, which is the same as the main core of the ancient alchemy scriptures to practice the transformation of Shen.

Black Liver Sun Soul, Rabbit Marrow Moon Soul, all belong to the transformation of Shen

That is to say, the definition of jhana in the Ahan Sutra is the same as the definition of meditation in the Alchemy Sutra, both of which come from the transformation of the conscious mind.

But they are all different from the transfer method, which is a transformation from the body's sense of qi.

 

搬運法嘗試用氣來解釋一切

這一點和所有的經典都不符合

例如阿含經,丹經

 

 

The transfer method tries to explain everything with Qi

This is not in line with all the classics

For example, the Ahan Sutra, the Dan Sutra

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)

搬運法還有一個很嚴重的謬誤

嘗試把氣給無限偉大化

卻把光給無價值化

甚至說出『光有什麼用處』這種話

 

這些人好像不知道,氣就是光,光就是氣

 

唯一的差別就在於感知的器官不同

氣使用身體感知,光使用第三眼感知

There is another very serious fallacy in the transfer method.

Try to make qi infinitely great

But make light worthless

Even saying "what's the use of light"

These people don't seem to know that qi is light and light is qi

The only difference is the organ of perception

Qi uses body perception, light uses third eye perception

 

光是氣的純粹化,氣是光的粗糙化

 

Light is the purification of Qi, and Qi is the roughening of light

 

 

Edited by awaken

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
35 minutes ago, awaken said:

Qi uses body perception, light uses third eye perception

 

Is that the highest form of perception in so far as Qi?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
14 hours ago, dawn90 said:

 

Is that the highest form of perception in so far as Qi?

 

當然不是

後面還是會演化的

只是演化的基礎是建立在前一個基礎上

 

of course not

It will evolve later

It's just that the foundation of evolution is built on the previous foundation

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites