Zhan Zhuang - Grounded or Ungrounded

[almaxy]

So, what about Zhan Zhuang practice indoors inside of an apartment versus Zhan Zhuang practice barefeet in the grass?

 

Does it have more benefits?

[Gerard]

It doesn't matter. It's about anchoring the Qi in the feet and opening the hip area as well as knees & ankles yo develop a solid foundation.

 

I do the asian squat daily with bare feet on my balcony. 

 

Supplement it with the Asian Squat and stay in that squat position for as long as you like making sure you move the Qi down using your mind. Gently!

 

I scan hips, legs, feet and toes making sure the Qi flows to those areas nicely and slowly  without forcing anything. Breathe naturally and in s calm manner as if you were practicing formal meditation.

 

 

[awaken]

如果單就站樁，而不考慮站樁之後的其他效應，當然是在草地上赤腳練效果最好。

 

但是如果你還要考慮其他變數，例如天氣，時間，後面的入定，那就不一定了。

 

例如天氣不好，下雨，那一定是室內好。如果是三更半夜，那一定是室內好。如果站樁後面要接著入定態，那一定是室內好。

 

所以要看你的變數，但是如果你只是一個初學者，那一定是室外好。

 

因為室外的土，會把你的濁氣往下排放，這樣你卡在頭上的壞氣，就更容易排出去。

[almaxy]

What about Zi Fa Gong while standing in Zhan Zhuang posture, it can  happen?

[freeform]

Best to not do Neigong or qigong grounded (with bare feet) as it will disperse the yang qi you generated. 
 

Outside of practice I think it’s great to be barefoot whenever comfortable  

[Iliketurtles]

On 3/9/2022 at 5:23 PM, almaxy said:

So, what about Zhan Zhuang practice indoors inside of an apartment versus Zhan Zhuang practice barefeet in the grass?

 

Does it have more benefits?

 

It's kind of like asking if you need a metric or standard wrench to work on your car.

 

My engine uses metric bolts so I need a metric wrench yours may not.

 

I will say in the practice that I've studied that grounding is supremely important and cannot be neglected but that may not hold true for your practice.

[Earl Grey]

I think you need to find a teacher instead of assembling different practices and getting feedback from different people with different systems, experience, and questionable qualifications here on an Internet forum.

[Shadow_self]

15 hours ago, freeform said:

Best to not do Neigong or qigong grounded (with bare feet) as it will disperse the yang qi you generated. 
 

Outside of practice I think it’s great to be barefoot whenever comfortable 

 

@almaxyTake heed of what@freeformis saying...This is the actual reality of the matter

 

While it is true that excess Yin Qi needs to be drawn from the enviornment....it is the sequencing that is of critical importance, and what seems to have been lost in translation

 

• First you need to activate (or awaken the LDT)
• You then need to fully strengthen and consolidate the existing Yin field in your body first (The LDT).
• Once this has been achieved, then it can contain Yang Qi...it cannot happen before that...
• Once Yang Qi has reached Critical mass...then you can worry about how to gather excess Yin Qi....there is no point in even thinking about before that

Think about how the law of attraction regarding Yin and Yang works....

[freeform]

Yin Qi doesn’t require electrical conductivity. It’s a field you can interact with easily without the need for electrical grounding. Simply sink the centre close to the ground - or even sit on the ground… but always have an insulating layer between your skin and the bare ground… or you’re simply dispersing the yang qi you’ve generated in your practice.

 

I’ve seen some Neigong teachers tell certain students to ground themselves deliberately - so that they don’t build yang qi. From what I was told it’s to keep power hungry students from becoming a problem.

 

I think it’s super unethical. I would simply cut ties with such a student… but some teachers want that paycheque… or don’t want to offend an official or something.

 

Other teachers use electrical devices to simulate qi emission - for them it’s necessary for the person to be grounded so that they feel the electric shock. But that’s nothing to do with Qi.

 

On rare occasions it’s necessary to dissipate too much yang qi (or some pathogenic qi) - and the grounding in that case is legitimate.

[Shadow_self]

10 minutes ago, freeform said:

Yin Qi doesn’t require electrical conductivity. It’s a field you can interact with easily without the need for electrical grounding. Simply sink the centre close to the ground - or even sit on the ground… but always have an insulating layer between your skin and the bare ground… or you’re simply dispersing the yang qi you’ve generated in your practice.

 

I’ve seen some Neigong teachers tell certain students to ground themselves deliberately - so that they don’t build yang qi. From what I was told it’s to keep power hungry students from becoming a problem.

 

I think it’s super unethical. I would simply cut ties with such a student… but some teachers want that paycheque… or don’t want to offend an official or something.

 

Other teachers use electrical devices to simulate qi emission - for them it’s necessary for the person to be grounded so that they feel the electric shock. But that’s nothing to do with Qi.

 

On rare occasions it’s necessary to dissipate too much yang qi (or some pathogenic qi) - and the grounding in that case is legitimate.

 

This is a reflection of exactly how it was explained to me

 

The indirectness with students (particularly those of western origin) has led to a lot of misunderstandings over the years. It is nice that the truth of matters are coming to the forefront though.

 

Whether people are willing to accept such truths is another matter entirely

 

 

[freeform]

6 minutes ago, Shadow_self said:

The indirectness with students (particularly those of western origin) has led to a lot of misunderstandings over the years. It is nice that the truth of matters are coming to the forefront though.

Yes - there’s a cultural thing that’s difficult to navigate. I’m definitely much more on the side of truth than of this indirect manoeuvring. I think most people are able to handle truth much better than it seems.
 

But who am I to question these things? 

 

Teachers in Asia are usually much more honest, direct (brutally so sometimes) with Tudis or inner door students… I appreciate this far more than sugar-pills and misdirection…

[Shadow_self]

2 hours ago, freeform said:

Yes - there’s a cultural thing that’s difficult to navigate. I’m definitely much more on the side of truth than of this indirect manoeuvring. I think most people are able to handle truth much better than it seems.
 

But who am I to question these things? 

 

Teachers in Asia are usually much more honest, direct (brutally so sometimes) with Tudis or inner door students… I appreciate this far more than sugar-pills and misdirection…

 

I've noticed how much people struggle with the cultural differences and especially lack an understanding as to what people from Asian countries will do to avoid uncomfortable, hostile situations, or to protect information.

 

The concept of dishonesty is much more "grey"  and murky than it is black or white.

 

I would advise anyone to spend a bit of time around Asian cultures to see the machinations of societal norms...It is quite the culture shock for most  

 

Yes, this has been the scenario relayed to me time and time again...Harsh truths for those inside the door, comforting half truths and whatnot for the rest..sometimes blatant dishonesty....depends on the person I guess?

 

It makes me appreciate having someone very direct...but also makes clear why artefacts, such as the Western Mo Pai "gospels" are lacking in accurate representation of the truth.

 

It becomes worrying when others are led down this road, especially as we move into a time where alchemy is starting to come out into the public sphere...and also become more potent (in terms of the recent shift) .

[awaken]

On 2022/3/12 at 2:14 PM, almaxy said:

What about Zi Fa Gong while standing in Zhan Zhuang posture, it can  happen?

 

可以發生，我有好幾個學生，就是因為站樁站到出現自發功，才找到我的

 

但是如果你只是單純要練自發功，你可以不用管站樁的『標準姿勢』，只要輕鬆地站著，隨著氣機移動即可

[awaken]

On 2022/3/13 at 6:02 AM, freeform said:

Best to not do Neigong or qigong grounded (with bare feet) as it will disperse the yang qi you generated. 
 

Outside of practice I think it’s great to be barefoot whenever comfortable  

 

你這個說法，應該是『猜的』，因為你根本沒這樣練過，我認為你不應該用『猜測』的東西，拿來給別人作為肯定語氣的建議

 

陽氣不會因為你的赤腳而被減量或者消失，相反的，好的環境，陽光，草地，樹木，赤腳，會讓你的陽氣增強好幾倍，而不是disperse

 

修煉的東西，請務必用『事實』來講，務必自己有經驗才來講，不要亂猜，還把亂猜的東西，講得跟真的一樣，這樣對相信你的人，是一種不應該的行為

[awaken]

關於陽氣，很多人都有一種錯誤的觀念，認為陽氣越多越好，這完全是錯誤的，還是犯了和我之前在講呼吸的那個主題一樣的錯，就是把鉛當成金。

 

丹道的修煉中，有兩種陽，第一種陽，就是鉛，包含氣感和烏肝兔髓，第二種陽，就是金，包含曼陀羅和金丹真人。

 

而第一種陽，稱為小藥，是拿來化解陰氣用的，所以第一種陽不管再怎麼多，最後都要用光光，因為都拿來化解陰氣花光了。

 

所以不要想說第一種陽氣可以存起來，可以越積越多，不要有這種想法，這種想法是錯的。

 

真正要練的，是用第一種陽氣，把陰氣化解掉，所以化解陰氣才是重點，因為只有陰氣全部被化解掉，第二種陽，才有可能產生，第二種陽才是丹道要練的。

 

 

[freeform]

1 hour ago, awaken said:

陽氣不會因為你的赤腳而被減量或者消失，相反的，好的環境，陽光，草地，樹木，赤腳，會讓你的陽氣增強好幾倍，而不是disperse

If you’re at the stage where you’re still having spontaneous movements and Zifa gong reactions - then you’re not able to generate meaningful levels of yang qi yet. 

 

When you do manage it, it’s pretty obvious what happens when you’re barefoot. No guessing required  

 

If spontaneous movements happen a lot to you, then it’s not a bad idea to touch the ground after practice to disperse pathogenic qi.

 

and @almaxy - I would echo what @Earl Grey mentioned. Rather than collecting bits and pieces from various sources, it’s best to find a teacher or a systematic approach to Neigong training. 
 

For example, I personally would never recommend starting with ZZ as a beginner… but for some teachers that’s the very first thing you learn. Different systems handle things differently. You can’t mix and match systems - that’s a bad idea.

 

 

[Iliketurtles]

22 hours ago, Shadow_self said:

 

I've noticed how much people struggle with the cultural differences and especially lack an understanding as to what people from Asian countries will do to avoid uncomfortable, hostile situations, or to protect information.

 

The concept of dishonesty is much more "grey"  and murky than it is black or white.

 

I would advise anyone to spend a bit of time around Asian cultures to see the machinations of societal norms...It is quite the culture shock for most  

 

Yes, this has been the scenario relayed to me time and time again...Harsh truths for those inside the door, comforting half truths and whatnot for the rest..sometimes blatant dishonesty....depends on the person I guess?

 

It makes me appreciate having someone very direct...but also makes clear why artefacts, such as the Western Mo Pai "gospels" are lacking in accurate representation of the truth.

 

It becomes worrying when others are led down this road, especially as we move into a time where alchemy is starting to come out into the public sphere...and also become more potent (in terms of the recent shift) .

 

What was taught was recorded on video, just FYI.

 

[almaxy]

On 13/03/2022 at 12:19 AM, Earl Grey said:

I think you need to find a teacher instead of assembling different practices and getting feedback from different people with different systems, experience, and questionable qualifications here on an Internet forum.

 

I know, but where I live there is no teacher so I'm trying to find out things for myself and I know it can be dangerous, that's why I'm asking a lot of question hahaha, but thanks for the advice again

 

 

On 13/03/2022 at 11:35 AM, freeform said:

 

On rare occasions it’s necessary to dissipate too much yang qi (or some pathogenic qi) - and the grounding in that case is legitimate.

 

Is this the same for qigong deviations? If I create a qigong deviation in my chest area(faster heartbeat, discomfort in the chest/heart area, insomnia), should I ground myself to drain this excess energy?

 

 

4 hours ago, awaken said:

 

可以發生，我有好幾個學生，就是因為站樁站到出現自發功，才找到我的

 

但是如果你只是單純要練自發功，你可以不用管站樁的『標準姿勢』，只要輕鬆地站著，隨著氣機移動即可

 

By letting the chi flow you mean to just stand still and let the chi flow on it's own, which will create spontneous movement, correct?

[Earl Grey]

8 minutes ago, almaxy said:

 

I know, but where I live there is no teacher so I'm trying to find out things for myself and I know it can be dangerous, that's why I'm asking a lot of question hahaha, but thanks for the advice again

 

 

 

Is this the same for qigong deviations? If I create a qigong deviation in my chest area(faster heartbeat, discomfort in the chest/heart area, insomnia), should I ground myself to drain this excess energy?

 

 

 

By letting the chi flow you mean to just stand still and let the chi flow on it's own, which will create spontneous movement, correct?

No excuses. There are teachers online who can instruct you. You can either pay for quality or make something up and get exactly what you expect from mixing and matching from random people…which includes serious risks of danger and harm.

 

Your health, your life, though.

Edited March 14, 2022 by Earl Grey

[Shadow_self]

2 hours ago, Iliketurtles said:

 

What was taught was recorded on video, just FYI.

 

 

Incomplete information is incomplete information. The medium (and source) is irrelevant.

 

The fact that you believe John and his translator to be beacons of truth illustrates your bias more than anything else.

[almaxy]

5 hours ago, Earl Grey said:

No excuses. There are teachers online who can instruct you. You can either pay for quality or make something up and get exactly what you expect from mixing and matching from random people…which includes serious risks of danger and harm.

 

Your health, your life, though.

Thanks, you are right, now I need to be honest with you guys, I messed it up, I'm so dumb.

 

Yesterday I did Zhan Zhuang for like 15 minutes, then I decided to let my chi flow, doing some Zi Fa Gong, and after that I did 30min of seated meditation.

 

The problem is that after the zi fa gong I started feeling disconfort in my chest and my heart was pulsating very fast, I had insomnia and today the symptom persists, my heart is beating faster, do you guys have any advice?

 

I swear I won't go back to practice without a teacher, just help me I'm so dumb, what should I do?

[Earl Grey]

40 minutes ago, almaxy said:

Thanks, you are right, now I need to be honest with you guys, I messed it up, I'm so dumb.

 

Yesterday I did Zhan Zhuang for like 15 minutes, then I decided to let my chi flow, doing some Zi Fa Gong, and after that I did 30min of seated meditation.

 

The problem is that after the zi fa gong I started feeling disconfort in my chest and my heart was pulsating very fast, I had insomnia and today the symptom persists, my heart is beating faster, do you guys have any advice?

 

I swear I won't go back to practice without a teacher, just help me I'm so dumb, what should I do?

Can’t help anymore.

[Iliketurtles]

5 hours ago, Shadow_self said:

 

Incomplete information is incomplete information. The medium (and source) is irrelevant.

 

The fact that you believe John and his translator to be beacons of truth illustrates your bias more than anything else.

 

Well there were two independent translators who speak Indonesian, Javanese and English who transcribed what was being spoken, and then provided a translation of it in English.

 

I feel confident in what was said.  

 

If what was said was accurate is up for debate however.

 

Edited March 15, 2022 by Iliketurtles

[Shadow_self]

42 minutes ago, Iliketurtles said:

 

Well there were two independent translators who speak Indonesian, Javanese and English who transcribed what was being spoken, and then provided a translation of it in English.

 

I feel confident in what was said.  

 

If what was said was accurate is up for debate however.

 

 

Please note what I said...Incomplete information does not equate to inaccurate...And a half truth is not the same as an outright lie.

 

I also never blamed the translator.

 

I redirect you to freeform's comments regards the motives for someone telling another to ground themselves.

 

One should also consider the conditions which need to be established in order to accumulate excess Yin Qi.

 

[Iliketurtles]

Just now, Shadow_self said:

 

Please note what I said...Incomplete information does not equate to inaccurate...And a half truth is not the same as an outright lie.

 

I also never blamed the translator.

 

I redirect you to freeform's comments regards the motives for someone telling another to ground themselves.

 

One should also consider the conditions which need to be established in order to accumulate excess Yin Qi.

 

 

I agree with you, if what was said is accurate is up for debate. 

 

As to his comments, I certainly understand he is speaking the truth as he sees it, based on what he has learned in his system.