Mysticism

[old3bob]

6 hours ago, helpfuldemon said:

Yeah but I don't think that is how Manitou intends us to believe, because that honors the individual in us, but I am more in line with your idea than hers.

 

my analogy/concept is far from perfect, and can such ever be perfect, thus to each their own.   Anyway one might want to also consider an analogy using prisms, for instance only (one) white light on one side of a prism while infinite colors come out the other side of it....  (further imagine a prism with the Unknown on one side of it while only white light comes out the other side of it)

[manitou]

On 10/10/2021 at 4:26 AM, helpfuldemon said:

Yeah but I don't think that is how Manitou intends us to believe, because that honors the individual in us, but I am more in line with your idea than hers.

 

 

It isn't a belief, helpfuldemon.  It's what remains after everything else has been taken away.  The past conditioning is a thing that must be dealt with if you seek ultimate clarity.

 

It isn't so much that we're all stuffed into one, it's more like the intelligence that's contained in a developing embryo.  When an embryo develops, each cell is identical to the last one that is produced.  However, the thing that determines whether a cell is going to be part of an eyeball, or a fingernail, or a blood cell....is how they line up next to each other.  That's where the Intelligence comes in.

 

This intelligence is the intelligence of creation.  It is built into the cells.  They know their mission.  So the intelligence I'm referring to is captured by the phrase 'the oak is in the acorn'.  the template is there, the template is passed on over the generations.  But the blueprint of the adult tree is contained within. 

 

How do those little cells know, when they're forming an infant finger, to line up 14,000 times for a pinkie, and then return.  And then line up 16,000 times for the ring finger, then return.  (No, I've not counted, it's an illustration).

 

To honor the individual within us, as you suggest, is to reinforce the separation.  We honor the individual body as a conveyance for this experience, but to honor the individual personality is to cling to patterns.  Beloved patterns, but patterns nonetheless.  If we honor our own accomplishments and dwell in them, this is doing nothing more than bolstering ego, which is a big pitfall.

 

The conditioning must be removed.

 

 

 

 

Edited October 12, 2021 by manitou

[helpfuldemon]

A pointer finger isn't a ring finger, and is it's own individual thing.  Perhaps we are meant to honor our individuality, all branching off into our own sort of identity.

[old3bob]

3 minutes ago, helpfuldemon said:

A pointer finger isn't a ring finger, and is it's own individual thing.  Perhaps we are meant to honor our individuality, all branching off into our own sort of identity.

 

Unity in Diversity...Supreme Soul in souls...none are denied thus also reflect their unique being connected to Supreme Being.

[helpfuldemon]

The unexamined life is a blessed life, for who wants to witness to their own mortality? Who wants to be reminded of their past faults? Who wants to recognize that there is no security; that we are adrift on an ocean of Chaos? Better to live in the feeling of freedom and invulnerability.

[XianGong]

I don't believe in mysticism, and there is nothing mystic in magic or occult arts.

[old3bob]

11 hours ago, XianGong said:

I don't believe in mysticism, and there is nothing mystic in magic or occult arts.

 

I'd say it's all magic plain as day and green as grass - which is hidden when we are blind and deaf and take such as the only realty.

[old3bob]

12 hours ago, helpfuldemon said:

The unexamined life is a blessed life, for who wants to witness to their own mortality? Who wants to be reminded of their past faults? Who wants to recognize that there is no security; that we are adrift on an ocean of Chaos? Better to live in the feeling of freedom and invulnerability.

 

What is it that can truly witness one's own mortality other than the unbound freedom of immortality which is invulnerable to the self inflicted chaos of a drifting mind?  

[helpfuldemon]

Do you think animals know they are mortal?  

[Nungali]

22 hours ago, XianGong said:

I don't believe in mysticism, and there is nothing mystic in magic or occult arts.

 

Maybe you are trying to intellectualise it ?

[XianGong]

38 minutes ago, Nungali said:

Maybe you are trying to intellectualise it ?

I am beyond the intellectual level. When you are able to see the true nature of things and pierce through illusions, no mysticism will be left.

[silent thunder]

Two words come to mind with the recent bend of this conversation.

 

Morphogenic Fields.

[Daniel]

16 hours ago, XianGong said:

I am beyond the intellectual level. When you are able to see the true nature of things and pierce through illusions, no mysticism will be left.

 

I feel sad for you.  No mystery? how bland.

[Daniel]

18 hours ago, helpfuldemon said:

Do you think animals know they are mortal?  

 

It depends on the animal.  Elephants are known to grieve for each other when an elephant dies.  

 

Link:  Elephant's mourn their dead scientists say

[old3bob]

4 hours ago, Daniel said:

 

It depends on the animal.  Elephants are known to grieve for each other when an elephant dies.  

 

Link:  Elephant's mourn their dead scientists say

 

...and some whales or dolphins so it seems

[old3bob]

21 hours ago, XianGong said:

I am beyond the intellectual level. When you are able to see the true nature of things and pierce through illusions, no mysticism will be left.

 

Btw, the historic Buddha said something close to, "Wonder of wonders!"  which in  a way is a type of mystery in the sense of wonder.

 

 

[Nungali]

22 hours ago, XianGong said:

I am beyond the intellectual level. When you are able to see the true nature of things and pierce through illusions, no mysticism will be left.

 

Yet, what you just said is of the very nature of mysticism ;   it is beyond the intellectual level and by definition " vague or ill-defined religious or spiritual belief " .

 

Being able to 'see the true nature of things and pierce through illusions'   is very vague  and ill-defined .

 

So ,  by your own statement ,   XianGong is a mystic  ( or at lest trying to pretend he is one  ) .

 

 

[Nungali]

21 hours ago, silent thunder said:

Two words come to mind with the recent bend of this conversation.

 

Morphogenic Fields.

 

Oh ! 

 

I thought you where going to say  ,  ' GS  Master ' .

[Nungali]

1 hour ago, old3bob said:

 

...and some whales or dolphins so it seems

 

Dogs too .

[old3bob]

I don't know of any creature that does not have some level of survival instinct, (to prevent its death) which is not the same as thinking or pondering about it which can turn fearful or depressing for humans.  

[helpfuldemon]

Certainly, like most creatures, animals know they can feel pain, but do you think they are aware of death?

Edited October 15, 2021 by helpfuldemon

[manitou]

I'd say probably not, if you're referring to the same 'fear of death' that the human has.  But it is very interesting to see a dog come up on a dead thing - their posture is so curious and yet hesitant.  Like they almost recognize it but not quite.

[Nungali]

14 hours ago, helpfuldemon said:

Certainly, like most creatures, animals know they can feel pain, but do you think they are aware of death?

 

There was a whaling fleet that had a 'contract' with a pod of killer whales that would help the fleet in the whale hunt. The whalers , respected the contract , with the boss whale  ( 'Old Tom' ) and they had a good relationship . 

 

One of the men drowned had a funeral and they took his body to be buried .. Boss whale  followed the  boat and came close into shore and maintained presence throughout the ceremony  - although he was 'watching ' from off shore and the cemetery was a little way inland . Once the grave was filled in the whale left  . 

 

There are many stories like this  with various animals but I cited this one due to the unusual  species to have a relationship with .

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Killer_whales_of_Eden,_New_South_Wales

 

 

 

 

 

Spoiler

 

 

[Earl Grey]

15 hours ago, helpfuldemon said:

Certainly, like most creatures, animals know they can feel pain, but do you think they are aware of death?

Yes. My dogs sensed when people they knew were dying. When other dogs died, they also had gone through depression. They mourn and even long for their human, dog, and cat friends.

[old3bob]