zerostao

The Dangers of "Othering"

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10 hours ago, Toni said:

Some things are bad for the many and for the individual :)

 

This is true, but the question I posed arises when the beliefs of the many differ from those of the individual and the many insist that the individual submits themselves to the their views.

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I still have no idea what y'all are discussing. 

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6 hours ago, steve said:

 

Who are "they" that are welcoming Nazism?

Which "others" are you referring to here?

The over-whelming majority of what?

American citizens?

Humans?

People who have been vaccinated and are trying to mitigate and minimize the effects of the pandemic?

I'm confused with all of the ambiguous discussion in this thread.

It is supposed to be about the dangers of "othering" but it seems to be very divisive. 

I've made comments that I'm trying to keep current events and specifics, specifically covid out of the discussion. 

 

When I was in grad skewl, studying the Classics, class discussions always became focused on current events because the themes from the Classics are timeless and applicable to todays events. 

 

Human psychology today may strongly resemble historical human psychology. To the subject of otherness, we can plug in almost anything and it fits. Most instances, it doesn't matter. Sometimes it matters greatly.

it's not meant to be ambiguous. it is meant to be generalized.

 

I've also mentioned how this cycles again and again historically.

Nazism was one form of Othering that came close to pure evil, IMO

I am probably a little more biased/sensitive to the horrors otherness often eventually brings.

one example I can bring to the discussion

3 and 4 generations back one branch of my family tree and the boys were wearing kilts to school. they were asked, where are your families originally from? Wales, they said. they were still trying to coverup the fact they were Cherokee and had somehow avoided the Trail of Tears. or is it trial of tears? idk

 

Do you think the German people were fighting tooth and nail to prevent that otherness from taking hold?

Do you think they were unaware of the direction they were being taken?

 

Do you think the American people of 1861 resisted the war with every possible effort?

Do you think they were unaware of the direction, they were being taken?

 

Ive said that dangerous otherness is a recurring fact of history. 

Anyone who has read the Muqaddimah knows where our society sits timeline wise in the cycle. Written by Ibn Khaldun.

Ibn Khaldun argues that each dynasty has within itself the seeds of its own downfall.

I certainly recommend one read it, if they have not.

 

"It is supposed to be about the dangers of "othering" but it seems to be very divisive."

 

The "very divisive"
 is the danger of othering.

 

I could tie in Taomeow's posts to this reply. However, I don't want to make this post too long

and her points need to be examined in their own light. Although, it does all tie in.

 

 

 

 

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@Earl Greyand @dwai  there are countless threads on TDB, if this one is of no value to you, there are others to choose from. something for everyone out there. find threads that suits your tastes better. :)

either way, I get paid the same.

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24 minutes ago, zerostao said:

@Earl Greyand @dwai  there are countless threads on TDB, if this one is of no value to you, there are others to choose from. something for everyone out there. find threads that suits your tastes better. :)

either way, I get paid the same.

I'm not sure I follow, but I wholeheartedly agree that "othering" should be avoided. 

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2 hours ago, zerostao said:

@Earl Greyand @dwai  there are countless threads on TDB, if this one is of no value to you, there are others to choose from. something for everyone out there. find threads that suits your tastes better. :)

either way, I get paid the same.


I ain’t against participating, it’s that the thread became confusing because it feels like everyone is talking about something else different from the original premise on page one.

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57 minutes ago, Earl Grey said:


I ain’t against participating, it’s that the thread became confusing because it feels like everyone is talking about something else different from the original premise on page one.

The whole world is becoming more confusing by the day, if you ask me. 

 

How are you doing today?

You are welcome to hang around the thread; participate if you like.

I'm sure that you've seen a few things along the way that are relatable to this thread.

Share if you'd like, or not. whatever content, it's your choice.

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18 minutes ago, zerostao said:

The whole world is becoming more confusing by the day, if you ask me. 

 

How are you doing today?

You are welcome to hang around the thread; participate if you like.

I'm sure that you've seen a few things along the way that are relatable to this thread.

Share if you'd like, or not. whatever content, it's your choice.


The whole world is nothing but confusing, and I dread the day that I repatriate stateside again because of my experience the first time in college after moving abroad for my youth. It’s even more concerning that I meet foreigners who move back overseas to the third world and tell me they’d rather be here than “home” after the way the pandemic has changed everyone and everything.

 

Actually what is really frightening is that the 8chan guys and QAnon fakers live here in this country too. 
 

I an still recovering, but my neighbors still treat me like I’m some mutant. More creative fuel, at least, especially because I was able to publish some fiction while being cooped up here.
 

 

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6 minutes ago, Earl Grey said:


The whole world is nothing but confusing, and I dread the day that I repatriate stateside again because of my experience the first time in college after moving abroad for my youth. It’s even more concerning that I meet foreigners who move back overseas to the third world and tell me they’d rather be here than “home” after the way the pandemic has changed everyone and everything.

 

Actually what is really frightening is that the 8chan guys and QAnon fakers live here in this country too. 
 

I an still recovering, but my neighbors still treat me like I’m some mutant. More creative fuel, at least, especially because I was able to publish some fiction while being cooped up here.
 

 

Thanks for sharing.

yes, those sowers of discord and disinfo have the goal to divide us up. their game is othering fuckery

congrats on the published work!!

 

You will cross that bridge when you arrive at it. For now, stay safe, and keep recovering.

 

 

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Posted (edited)
On 8/18/2021 at 1:57 PM, zerostao said:

Do you think the 'over-whelming' majority uses power of Reason ?

Do you think that they rely of self sufficiency?

Or take responsibility for their own health, even??   I realize this is a loaded question. and each of these questions are rhetorical and do not require an answer. I hope the readers will think about these questions.

 

Because whichever side of a fence you find yourself on, these same questions apply equally.

 

When Darkness settles in, often times, Reason is hard to find. Many will just think of saving their own skin and maybe not much concern for their neighbor. This is the point of this thread and can the Shadow be diverted.

 

Irrationality vs Reason.  which is the stronger,,,

 

A Black Swan looks at its pond, twitches, turns, prepares for flight. When the Shadow of the Black Swan becomes apparent;

psychological biases. will blind people collectively and individually, the vixx on the uncertainty scale will fly off the chart.

 

Folks, we aint seen nuthin' yet.

 

 

 

You got it right here, some people are responsible of their own health and life, while others are not, delegating this responsibility on others, thinking that they care about them and that they know better what is good for them.

 

The first are adult responsible people who are in control of their life and are ready to assume the consequences of their choices. That is why they do their own research and think for their own, not happy with the first thing they are told. The other kind of people prefer to just imitate what others do and say (herd behavior).

Edited by Toni
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On 8/17/2021 at 4:49 PM, steve said:

hard-wired into humans

 

not so sure about that!
perhaps it's, as Roger Waters suggests, to which i agree, it is education
when we are born we have sounds, not words

we learn words from our parents, friends, school, society and adopt associated bias along the way, and, all of this, accumulates into 'me'; and as soon as that happens, we manifest the 'other'

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I agree that conditioning plays a major role.

I also tend to believe the very nature of our sensory experience, a me contained within a bag of skin, sets the stage for self vs other.

 

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On 8/16/2021 at 9:13 PM, zerostao said:

 

Maybe it is my... ancestors calling out to me...  that experienced the dehumanizing and devastating effects of Othering.

 

 

When Nature... Tao... Divine... are ONE

 

What... Who... are the other?

The (in)human?

 

As human(s)... are we...

 

th?id=OIP.b_IUdzO9AiJ3MBy-JbNqpAAAAA&pid=Api&P=0&w=201&h=167

 th?id=OIP.W0qLlH7DBWREBIL_TuEqvQHaDc&pid=Api&P=0&w=335&h=156

 

- Anand

 

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Posted (edited)
On 8/19/2021 at 9:57 AM, zerostao said:

How are you doing today?

 

 

How were you yesterday?

It was the other day.

 

How will you be tomorrow?

It will be (an)other day.

 

Everyday is ONE day?

 

- Anand

 

 

Edited by Limahong
Enhancement
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On 8/16/2021 at 9:13 PM, zerostao said:

Those that see clearly and/or think clearly are surely disheartened, shocked, appalled at the dynamic trend rearing its head, the ugliest monster of all--othering.

 

The  TAO is ONE...?

 

th?id=OIP.4zzxQnGYEmnM10QEnKK9IQHaKe&pid=Api&P=0&w=300&h=300th?id=OIP.a9JzWvM2YHiZrTQTRysJSwHaFj&pid=Api&P=0&w=207&h=156

th?id=OIP.PCDIxvDGHUMD6O99y7LPdwHaFj&pid=Api&P=0&w=210&h=158 

 

 

 

- Anand

 

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Posted (edited)
15 hours ago, steve said:

I agree that conditioning plays a major role.

I also tend to believe the very nature of our sensory experience, a me contained within a bag of skin, sets the stage for self vs other.

 

 

very interesting and agree

 

but a question . . .

was Siddhartha Gautama out of his ‘skin’ ?

 

you may be spot-on . . .

’cause Gautama reckoned he won’t be back 

in other words 

no rebirth

and that’s the ‘bag of skin’ stage

 

thank you Steve

Edited by Ano Eremita

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8 hours ago, Ano Eremita said:

 

very interesting and agree

 

but a question . . .

was Siddhartha Gautama out of his ‘skin’ ?

Yes

 

Quote

 

you may be spot-on . . .

’cause Gautama reckoned he won’t be back 

in other words 

no rebirth

and that’s the ‘bag of skin’ stage

He went far beyond that. In the Buddhist paradigm, there are realms and beings without form. Gautama transcended all realms, form and formless. Buddhas are not constrained by the physical body.

 

Even for you and me, it is not too difficult to have an experience that goes beyond the limitations of the body with skillful meditation practice. Unfortunately, it often becomes an obstacle, a source of grasping, for practitioners. One of many potential obstacles on the path.

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Posted (edited)
11 hours ago, Ano Eremita said:

Siddhartha Gautama out of his ‘skin’ ?

 

Meditation is but skin deep?

 

th?id=OIP.yd-KmH4dtjKhWsNw20JaTAHaEH&pid=Api&P=0&w=307&h=171

tumblr_n8d65jDp9L1sjwwzso1_500.gif

 

- Anand

 

 

Edited by Limahong
Enhancement
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On 8/16/2021 at 9:13 PM, zerostao said:

This thread isn't about politics or getting vaxxed or not. However, it is these two recent events that provide excuses for the Monster that parses folks into this pile or that pile to rise.

 

th?id=OIP.8SCLe1ZqWR9sdiZsfZ-aCAHaFP&pid=Api&P=0&w=236&h=168

th?id=OIP.T21R_1A6ZZeP4zW0cr00KQHaIB&pid=Api&P=0&w=300&h=300

 

 

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On 8/16/2021 at 9:13 PM, zerostao said:

 

The Dangers of "Othering"

 

 

 

CHEERS! Kay... you are unlike others.

 

Thank you.

 

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On 8/17/2021 at 11:57 PM, Nintendao said:

No matter how elegant a computer program may be,

if it is applied to the wrong dataset, 

disastrous results may be produced.

 

Hi Nin,

 

It can be the same dataset with BIG data

 

Add in artificial intelligence

 

Disasters proliferate when such data get in the wrong hands

 

th?id=OIP.II2Jj5dDJJ4Zvg7f6vdx6AHaD4&pid=Api&P=0&w=393&h=207th?id=OIP.GOZtqx-yAPUfHcPcaq4PRgHaKj&pid=Api&P=0&w=300&h=300

 

- Anand

 

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On 8/18/2021 at 3:03 AM, thelerner said:

I think we'd live better and happier if we toned it down quite a bit, mostly staying in the 'You' zone.  Too often, we feed into it, seeking out articles and people who love rallying against the Evil of the Other. 

 

Hi Michael,

 

Me and Other zones

 

Me + Mine...

AQAL7_Fig9.gif

 

You + Other...

86367.gif

 

- Anand

 

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On 8/23/2021 at 4:33 AM, Limahong said:

CHEERS! Kay... you are unlike others.

 

th?id=OIP.yQdIaqaLbul3Ys8Tv7cxvwHaEK&pid=Api&P=0&w=300&h=300

 

 

The Basic Nature of Othering in Human Psychology

One of the powerful lessons of the social and behavioral sciences pertains to the ineradicable nature of the ingroup/outgroup effect... In short, this effect speaks to how we differentially treat those whom we see as "in our group" versus those whom we see as some kind of "other," meaning someone who is defined as in "some group other than my own group."

 

People often demonstrate the outgroup homogeneity bias... when making judgments about people from some other group. It's like, "We are all different from one another. But them? They are all the same!"

(Glenn Geher ~ Professor of Psychology - State University of New York)

 

- Anand

 

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On 8/16/2021 at 9:13 PM, zerostao said:

Othering

 

This thread is about the other kind...

 

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