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The best article I have read in 2 years

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https://www.rawstory.com/unvaccinated-patients/

 

 

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An Alabama doctor has revealed heartbreaking details about her recent conversations with patients dying from COVID-19, amid a surge in cases caused by the Delta variant in the state with the lowest vaccination rate in the nation. 

 

"I'm admitting young healthy people to the hospital with very serious COVID," Dr. Brytney Cobia wrote in a Facebook post on Sunday. "One of the last things they do before they're intubated is beg me for the vaccine. I hold their hand and tell them that I'm sorry, but it's too late.

"A few days later when I call time of death, I hug their family members and I tell them the best way to honor their loved one is to go get vaccinated and encourage everyone they know to do the same," Cobia added. "They cry. And they tell me they didn't know. They thought it was a hoax. They thought it was political. They thought because they had a certain blood type or a certain skin color they wouldn't get as sick. They thought it was 'just the flu'. But they were wrong. And they wish they could go back. But they can't. So they thank me and they go get the vaccine. And I go back to my office, write their death note, and say a small prayer that this loss will save more lives."

Cobia said all but one of her current patients did not receive the vaccine, with the one who received it expected to recover. AL.comreports that Cobia and other doctors "worked themselves to the bone" in the early part of the pandemic, when the vaccine wasn't available during a period she described as "tragedy after tragedy after tragedy." 

 

 

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Posted (edited)
On 7/19/2021 at 12:49 PM, steve said:

 

Nor does the Dao require responsibility to others.

 

Heaven and earth are not humane:
The 10,000 things are straw dogs to them.
Sages are not humane:
People are straw dogs to them.

 

Hello Steve, Surprisingly it sounds to me like you are taking a part from the T.T.C. out of context...?   For the book speaks full on of the fine and more than just common humane traits of a Taoist master/sage as being a matrix for the Dao and thus those that would follow suit.  For instance and to paraphrase,  "he is kind to to the kind  he is also kind to the unkind" (Chp. 49) "Hence, the Sage is always good at saving men" (Chp. 27) and to go with that, "if only I had the tiniest grain of wisdom, I should walk in the Great way, and my only fear would be to stray from it. (Chp. 53) which is inter-related to, "To be the pattern of the world is to move constantly in the path of virtue..." (Chp. 28)   etc, etc... 

Edited by old3bob
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33 minutes ago, old3bob said:

 

Hello Steve, Surprisingly it sounds to me like you are taking a part from the T.T.C. out of context...?   For the book speaks full on of the fine and more than just common humane traits of a Taoist master/sage as being a matrix for the Dao and thus those that would follow suit.  For instance and to paraphrase,  "he is kind to to the kind  he is also kind to the unkind" (Chp. 49) "Hence, the Sage is always good at saving men" (Chp. 27) and to go with that, "if only I had the tiniest grain of wisdom, I should walk in the Great way, and my only fear would be to stray from it. (Chp. 53) which is inter-related to, "To be the pattern of the world is to move constantly in the path of virtue..." (Chp. 28)   etc, etc... 

 

And yet "people are straw dogs to them"... 

The Dao and Daoist sages sometimes present us with surprises and paradoxes, no?

At least that is my experience. 

I can see strong parallels to the Bön teachings - the sages are not overly attached to people or things, even themselves (...they are like straw dogs), and yet in releasing these attachments and dependence, even in the presence of all sort of challenges, we allow something very loving and pure to arise through our non-interference.

 

To quote a wonderful teacher of a different tradition -

"And if you want a point of departure for this new journey of soul, don't choose an intention, don't choose a prayer, don't choose a therapy, and don't choose a spiritual method. Look inwards and discover a point of contradiction within yourself. Stay faithful to the aura and presence of the contradiction. Hold it gently in your embrace and ask it what it wants to teach you."

~ John O'Donohue

 

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Posted (edited)

there is an impersonal (or impartial) aspect so to speak  if that is what you are getting at if one wants to call it a "straw dog"?  A term which I don't remember the full meaning or import of right now in Chinese cultural history... anyway I suggest Chp. 34, among others, as a pointer to the nature of Dao that has both an impersonal or non-ado aspect and also a personal (mother like) aspect in effect or in action for  "All creatures depend on it". 

 

Looked this up, from Wikipedia:

"Straw dogs (simplified Chinese: 刍狗; traditional Chinese: 芻狗; pinyin: chú gǒu), a figure of a dog made out of straw, were used as ceremonial objects in ancient China, but often thrown away after their usage.

In one translation Chapter 5 of the Tao Te Ching begins with the lines "Heaven and Earth are impartial treating creatures like straw dogs".

 

Su Zhe's commentary on this verse explains: "Heaven and Earth are not partial. They do not kill living things out of cruelty or give them birth out of kindness. We do the same when we make straw dogs to use in sacrifices. We dress them up and put them on the altar, but not because we love them. And when the ceremony is over, we throw them into the street, but not because we hate them."

 

or composite forms have use until they do not and then back they go to basic elements...

Edited by old3bob
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22 hours ago, ralis said:

 

I noted on here that players from the University Illinois football team tested positive last year with long haul effects of myocarditis. Probably the end of their careers. These guys were tested on a daily basis and probably showed no symptoms.

 

Here is the real problem with this vaccine, alien DNA and demon sperm. Right out of the X-Files. :lol:

 

https://www.thedailybeast.com/the-most-dangerous-and-deranged-claims-in-americas-frontline-doctors-motion-against-covid-vaccinations

 

 

A lobby of Trumpster doctors   !   ... ????

 

:blink:

 

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5 hours ago, old3bob said:

there is an impersonal (or impartial) aspect so to speak  if that is what you are getting at if one wants to call it a "straw dog"?  A term which I don't remember the full meaning or import of right now in Chinese cultural history... anyway I suggest Chp. 34, among others, as a pointer to the nature of Dao that has both an impersonal or non-ado aspect and also a personal (mother like) aspect in effect or in action for  "All creatures depend on it". 

 

Looked this up, from Wikipedia:

"Straw dogs (simplified Chinese: 刍狗; traditional Chinese: 芻狗; pinyin: chú gǒu), a figure of a dog made out of straw, were used as ceremonial objects in ancient China, but often thrown away after their usage.

In one translation Chapter 5 of the Tao Te Ching begins with the lines "Heaven and Earth are impartial treating creatures like straw dogs".

 

Su Zhe's commentary on this verse explains: "Heaven and Earth are not partial. They do not kill living things out of cruelty or give them birth out of kindness. We do the same when we make straw dogs to use in sacrifices. We dress them up and put them on the altar, but not because we love them. And when the ceremony is over, we throw them into the street, but not because we hate them."

 

or composite forms have use until they do not and then back they go to basic elements...

 

 

That straw dogs phrase has been used and interpreted in all sorts of nasty justifications ,.

 

Of course 'heaven and earth' are 'impartial 'and  do not have human sensitivities' .   The sage realises this, but that doesnt mean he has to go around being insensitive .to others .

 

To me , this is like how some try to use misunderstood  Themelic precepts to justify their nastiness .  Of course,  more enlightened interpretations depend on just that .... an enlightened outlook , with comprehensive study in varied related subjects to throw light on the teachings .... or just one line of them  . .  . . like Su Zeh's commentary .

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7 hours ago, old3bob said:

there is an impersonal (or impartial) aspect so to speak  if that is what you are getting at if one wants to call it a "straw dog"?  A term which I don't remember the full meaning or import of right now in Chinese cultural history... anyway I suggest Chp. 34, among others, as a pointer to the nature of Dao that has both an impersonal or non-ado aspect and also a personal (mother like) aspect in effect or in action for  "All creatures depend on it". 

 

Looked this up, from Wikipedia:

"Straw dogs (simplified Chinese: 刍狗; traditional Chinese: 芻狗; pinyin: chú gǒu), a figure of a dog made out of straw, were used as ceremonial objects in ancient China, but often thrown away after their usage.

In one translation Chapter 5 of the Tao Te Ching begins with the lines "Heaven and Earth are impartial treating creatures like straw dogs".

 

Su Zhe's commentary on this verse explains: "Heaven and Earth are not partial. They do not kill living things out of cruelty or give them birth out of kindness. We do the same when we make straw dogs to use in sacrifices. We dress them up and put them on the altar, but not because we love them. And when the ceremony is over, we throw them into the street, but not because we hate them."

 

or composite forms have use until they do not and then back they go to basic elements...

 

There’s also a beautiful commentary I’ve seen describing the sacred aspects of “straw dogs” as offerings. We don’t offer meaningless objects in Daoist rituals, only pure objects and intention. And we let go once they are offered. Numerous ways to look at at it, IMO.

 

Here is a perspective on Covid worthy of consideration, though not pleasant. Even if the vaccines prove to be a nightmare, I feel for all participants in this tragic situation:

https://www.al.com/news/2021/07/im-sorry-but-its-too-late-alabama-doctor-on-treating-unvaccinated-dying-covid-patients.html

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Posted (edited)

Former poker pro Annie Duke discusses the "resulting fallacy" in her book Thinking In Bets.  It´s the tendency to evaluate the quality of a decision based upon a result, even in situations where luck (or chance) plays a big role.  Consider poker.  In the very short term, a novice can win a hand against a champion simply because of the luck of the draw.  It´s not that the champion made bad decisions or the novice good ones -- it´s just dumb luck.  

 

What does this have to do with Covid vaccines?  Everything I think.  Suppose someone chooses not to get vaccinated, gets Covid and dies.  That´s an unfortunate outcome but does it mean the decision to forego vaccination was wrong?  It does not.  Conversely, a person could choose to get vaccinated and die from consequences of the injection.  Does this mean the decision to get vaccinated was wrong?  No again.  We can´t know with any certainty in advance of vaccination if the jab will end up offering protection or hurting us.  

Edited by liminal_luke
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Posted (edited)
54 minutes ago, liminal_luke said:

Former poker pro Annie Duke discusses the "resulting fallacy" in her book Thinking In Bets.  It´s the tendency to evaluate the quality of a decision based upon a result, even in situations where luck (or chance) plays a big role.  Consider poker.  In the very short term, a novice can win a hand against a champion simply because of the luck of the draw.  It´s not that the champion made bad decisions or the novice good ones -- it´s just dumb luck.  

 

What does this have to do with Covid vaccines?  Everything I think.  Suppose someone chooses not to get vaccinated, gets Covid and dies.  That´s an unfortunate outcome but does it mean the decision to forego vaccination was wrong?  It does not.  Conversely, a person could choose to get vaccinated and die from consequences of the injection.  Does this mean the decision to get vaccinated was wrong?  No again.  We can´t know with any certainty in advance of vaccination if the jab will end up offering protection or hurting us.  


Explain why heavily vaccinated areas are seeing infections and deaths decreasing? Not just in short term, but over months. Communities with low vaccination rates are spiking with infections and deaths.

 

I have played a lot of No Limit Holdem Poker in my life and would never stake my health on your supposition!

 

There are myriad nuances in poker that are not written in any poker book. I have encountered many washed out broke pro poker players in Las Vegas. Being a pro is no guarantee of long term winnings. AA is the best starting hand with odds of 4-1 with no guarantee of winning the hand. 

Edited by ralis

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1 minute ago, ralis said:


Explain why heavily vaccinated areas are seeing infections and deaths decreasing? Not just in short term, but over months. Communities with low vaccination rates are spiking with infections and deaths.

 

I have played a lot of No Limit Holdem Poker in my life and would never stake my health on your supposition!

No one can speak on this with complete certainty. Certainly not Fauci, the presumed expert in this country. Not your neighbor either.

The passage you shared about Dr, Brytney Cobia; Steve also shared a link,

it absolutely tugs at one’s heartstrings. Very emotional.

And it’s a very emotionally charged subject. 
“Over months” is still short term. I know that when the outcome proves fatal, regardless of choice made, it’s hard to think it was short term. But it is.

 

An hour ago I was reading an article about the J&J vaccine and the Delta variant. The author of the article said the testing suggested that vaccine is up against more than it can handle. Yet, the author said, “The test results are no indication of real world results. And maybe in the real world the results would be better than the testing suggests.”

Maybe the author’s hunch is right. Maybe it’s not.

 

@ralis in all of your poker experience have you never pushed all in and lost?
 

I don’t know anyone downplaying the seriousness of the situation. Going all in, well, it works fine until it doesn’t. Finality is a possible outcome, either way.

 

Our world is a dangerous place; there is no getting around that. Some say life is a gamble, at best.

 

Dont let high emotions cause your critical thinking to fly out the window. 
 

Using Reason doesn’t always work out either. As more time goes on we all will have more data to consider. This is a fast moving fluid situation. Making life or death decisions based on emotions, idk
 

Either way there are no guarantees.

 I feel it’s best ( for now) to let each individual chose. 

 

 

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25 minutes ago, zerostao said:

No one can speak on this with complete certainty. Certainly not Fauci, the presumed expert in this country. Not your neighbor either.

The passage you shared about Dr, Brytney Cobia; Steve also shared a link,

it absolutely tugs at one’s heartstrings. Very emotional.

And it’s a very emotionally charged subject. 
“Over months” is still short term. I know that when the outcome proves fatal, regardless of choice made, it’s hard to think it was short term. But it is.

 

An hour ago I was reading an article about the J&J vaccine and the Delta variant. The author of the article said the testing suggested that vaccine is up against more than it can handle. Yet, the author said, “The test results are no indication of real world results. And maybe in the real world the results would be better than the testing suggests.”

Maybe the author’s hunch is right. Maybe it’s not.

 

@ralis in all of your poker experience have you never pushed all in and lost?
 

I don’t know anyone downplaying the seriousness of the situation. Going all in, well, it works fine until it doesn’t. Finality is a possible outcome, either way.

 

Our world is a dangerous place; there is no getting around that. Some say life is a gamble, at best.

 

Dont let high emotions cause your critical thinking to fly out the window. 
 

Using Reason doesn’t always work out either. As more time goes on we all will have more data to consider. This is a fast moving fluid situation. Making life or death decisions based on emotions, idk
 

Either way there are no guarantees.

 I feel it’s best ( for now) to let each individual chose. 

 

 


 

So you were reading an article. What does that prove? No link, but a quote out of context. 
 

BTW, social Darwinism or the so called superior individual right to infect innocent persons is immoral. 

 

 

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Posted (edited)
20 minutes ago, ralis said:


 

So you were reading an article. What does that prove? No link, but a quote out of context. 
 

BTW, social Darwinism or the so called superior individual right to infect innocent persons is immoral. 

 

 

I am not claiming to have proved anything. In fact, my premise Is with all of the contradictions that our expert Fauci and other “qualified staff” has been feeding us, doesn’t prove anything except the narrative is changing. 
 

If you’re going to bring up Darwin, why not keep it to the scientific evolutionary?
 

are you labeling me a social Darwinist?

and or immoral?

Edited by zerostao
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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, ralis said:

 

Trifling with nature is not wise. 
 

Agreed.

tinkering with Nature is playing with fire.

like a Modern Prometheus. 

Edited by zerostao

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Posted (edited)
18 hours ago, steve said:

 

And yet "people are straw dogs to them"... 

The Dao and Daoist sages sometimes present us with surprises and paradoxes, no?

At least that is my experience. 

I can see strong parallels to the Bön teachings - the sages are not overly attached to people or things, even themselves (...they are like straw dogs), and yet in releasing these attachments and dependence, even in the presence of all sort of challenges, we allow something very loving and pure to arise through our non-interference.

 

To quote a wonderful teacher of a different tradition -

"And if you want a point of departure for this new journey of soul, don't choose an intention, don't choose a prayer, don't choose a therapy, and don't choose a spiritual method. Look inwards and discover a point of contradiction within yourself. Stay faithful to the aura and presence of the contradiction. Hold it gently in your embrace and ask it what it wants to teach you."

~ John O'Donohue

 

 

 look a little further and know that there is no contradiction in unconditional love that is impartial in a personal way while simultaneously being unlimited and powerful in the working of same, thus is the foundation of All.

 

Edited by old3bob

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14 hours ago, zerostao said:

The passage you shared about Dr, Brytney Cobia; Steve also shared a link,

it absolutely tugs at one’s heartstrings. Very emotional.

 

Very emotional is right.  But also fake.  Emotional minus factual equals manipulative and deceptive.  Unfortunately, the tried-and-true recipe for the most successful propaganda campaigns at all times for all purposes.   

 

gt8l2hh2arc71.jpg?width=640&auto=webp&s=abf5f9066e899a9efb95dc59a0e832197eaaddba

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23 minutes ago, Taomeow said:

 

Very emotional is right.  But also fake.  Emotional minus factual equals manipulative and deceptive.  Unfortunately, the tried-and-true recipe for the most successful propaganda campaigns at all times for all purposes.   

 

gt8l2hh2arc71.jpg?width=640&auto=webp&s=abf5f9066e899a9efb95dc59a0e832197eaaddba


 

Appears to be just another conspiracy forum! You provide no link, but a screenshot. 
 

https://kotakuinaction2.win/p/12jcY5ulsJ/alabama-doctor-brytney-cobia-cla/c/

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1 minute ago, ralis said:


 

Appears to be just another conspiracy forum! You provide no link, but a screenshot. 
 

https://kotakuinaction2.win/p/12jcY5ulsJ/alabama-doctor-brytney-cobia-cla/c/

 

NCHS which stands for National Center for Health Statistics of CDC is another conspiracy forum?..  Wow, your vigilance toward ever-widening categories of sources, now including official government agencies, under your definition of "conspiracy" is impressive.  

 

I provided the screenshot that was handy -- you are more than welcome to go to the original source referenced therein and verify the information for yourself.   

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4 minutes ago, Taomeow said:

 

NCHS which stands for National Center for Health Statistics of CDC is another conspiracy forum?..  Wow, your vigilance toward ever-widening categories of sources, now including official government agencies, under your definition of "conspiracy" is impressive.  

 

I provided the screenshot that was handy -- you are more than welcome to go to the original source referenced therein and verify the information for yourself.   


I know what it stands for, but the source kotakuinaction is suspect just like other conspiracy sites you post here such as bitchute and one more in this thread. Why not post a direct link to the chart? 

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People make decisions they regret all the time.  No doubt some unvaccinated people who end up getting COVID will conclude they made a tragically wrong decision...just like some people who got vaccinated and ended up with a disability will also conclude they made a tragically wrong decision.  In either case, I´m not a fan of the we-told-you-so-and-you-didn´t-listen argument.

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Just now, liminal_luke said:

People make decisions they regret all the time.  No doubt some unvaccinated people who end up getting COVID will conclude they made a tragically wrong decision...just like some people who got vaccinated and ended up with a disability will also conclude they made a tragically wrong decision.  In either case, I´m not a fan of the we-told-you-so-and-you-didn´t-listen argument.


I am concerned about the human species and not the opinions of a few. We survive as a species and not a few individuals that some believe are above it all. 

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BTW, need I remind others that Sean explicitly  stated that pointing out conspiracies on this site is perfectly fine with him.

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1 hour ago, ralis said:


I know what it stands for, but the source kotakuinaction is suspect just like other conspiracy sites you post here such as bitchute and one more in this thread. Why not post a direct link to the chart? 

 

Alas, you're having a false memory.  I only participated in human conversations here, not in ping-pong matches of sources, and within those conversations only posted links, whenever deemed appropriate, to official sanctimonious sources, such as CNN, WEF, and government dispatches.  In the very last case, however, I didn't provide a direct link but, rather, a screenshot embedding and naming the source for such link -- also an official government one -- very easy to find with absolutely minimal effort.  

 

1 hour ago, ralis said:

 Why not post a direct link to the chart? 

 

Two reasons.  One, I am always more than happy to do it in response to a friendly request, as many people here who have addressed me with such requests on countless occasions can testify.  And two, I was hoping that you, having blundered by circulating that fake post in dire need of retraction, would exhibit a miracle of conscience and retract, apologize -- or at the very least do your own homework and accept the modicum of the burden of proof, by googling the link to NCHS yourself.  My mistake.  

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Posted (edited)

....edited for snarkiness (which is too bad because it was deliciously snarky but probably not worth it in the end...shucks!)

 

 

Edited by liminal_luke
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21 hours ago, liminal_luke said:

Former poker pro Annie Duke discusses the "resulting fallacy" in her book Thinking In Bets.  It´s the tendency to evaluate the quality of a decision based upon a result, even in situations where luck (or chance) plays a big role.  Consider poker.  In the very short term, a novice can win a hand against a champion simply because of the luck of the draw.  It´s not that the champion made bad decisions or the novice good ones -- it´s just dumb luck.  

 

What does this have to do with Covid vaccines?  Everything I think.  Suppose someone chooses not to get vaccinated, gets Covid and dies.  That´s an unfortunate outcome but does it mean the decision to forego vaccination was wrong?  It does not.  Conversely, a person could choose to get vaccinated and die from consequences of the injection.  Does this mean the decision to get vaccinated was wrong?  No again.  We can´t know with any certainty in advance of vaccination if the jab will end up offering protection or hurting us.  

 

 

 

 

 

 

If it isnt , then what is  behind peoples choices , even if their reasons seem radical and bent, its all about  selection of best chance.

 My friend tells me her Christian work mate  was booked in to get vaccinated , then she gets this message from her church outlining their  stand on it , so she cancelled her vaccination and now declares 'its on God's hands' .  regardless of beliefs, this is also a 'chance ' decision, she believes ( rightly or wrongly ) going with the church gives her  the best chance .

 

I think we needed to abandon 'certainty' long ago !

 

 Recently I am moving more towards vaccination as I had this realisation ; to NOT get vaccinated means I have to rely, a big part on the consideration given to others and the level of intelligence  of ....  ' the average person  in the street '

 

WHOA !    - thats scary !

 

balanced against this is the risk of vaccination ... well, I do all sorts of crazy shit that is MUCH more risky than that, without the benefits that vaccine might give .    There is also the idea in the back of my mind that death from blood clot might not be as bad as  death from covid  .   Long term effects ?   I dont think I am going to be around that long anyway .   Also the situation here with Delta has changed the game greatly  ... we haven't been able to deal with it like we did with other types of outbreaks  ... and that  has a LOT to do with people just simply refusing to follow guidelines  and acting inconsiderate of others and via their own stupidity  !

 

Eg;  I watched a real estate agent being interviewed from Orange , a town west of Sydney over the mountains , Traditionally they get a lot of visitors from the city , which has supposed to have stopped . The Real Estate agent was livid " I got people from Sydney ringing up interested in buying property here , they say ' Look mate , you know this is covid thing is  bullshit , I know it is bullshit  , I can get out of Sydney, dont worry about that , I know how to get out , I can be there on the weekend and look at this property with you, I am definitely interested in buying. '  And I respond ' Dont you dare come here , I will call the police and report you ; .  We have started checking peoples driving license to check their address  before we do business with them now .  "

 

- but I heard yesterday that  Delta has now spread to Orange  .

 

But then again , I am a gambler  ..... I buy lotto and rarely win much ... but then again, I take all sorts of crazy risks often, and usually get away with it .

 

I note that  choosing best odds is tagged as a 'fallacy' ... but I would like to know what people with this opinion would replace it with , what basis are you suggesting we operate on ?    Hunches ? Feelings ?   I might be mistaken  but I thought your own choice in this matter was based on chances ; the chance of not catching the virus Vs the chance of  bad effects of  vaccine    ?

 

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