Toni

Are you vaccinated, or do you plan to get the vaccine?

Are you vaccinated, or do you plan to get the vaccine?  

33 members have voted

  1. 1. Are you vaccinated, or do you plan to get the vaccine?

    • Yes, I am already vaccinated or want to be soon
      21
    • No thanks
      10


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1 hour ago, ralis said:

 

I will restate. Are the world's top scientific virologists investigating the Wuhan lab to ascertain if allegations are factual or not? Forensic investigation. 

Give them enough political and economic incentive and they certainly will.

 

So, as it stands now, the fact that this was an engineered virus is not being dismissed anymore.

 

The involvement of the WIV in “gain of function” research (bioengineering viruses) is also not being dismissed either.
 

So then, is there a strong possibility that this bioengineered virus, with its ground zero being wuhan, points strongly to WIV being contributory towards it? 

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1 hour ago, steve said:

 

Bioweapons are manufactured around the world and have been for decades. I live about an hour from a 400 acre US Army development center, storage, and proving ground for biological, chemical, and radioactive weapons. The CDC tried to shut it down for safety breaches but that didn’t last long. It would be no surprise if Covid is man made and I would not expect anyone to take responsibility publicly, whether an accident occurred in China, the US, or the Vatican… At the end of the day, the source makes little difference at this point as the military and medical labs will not be swayed, even if a lab accident led to a pandemic.

It might not be public, but there WILL be fallout. There needs to be course correction, or next time it will be worse. 

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15 minutes ago, dwai said:

It might not be public, but there WILL be fallout. There needs to be course correction, or next time it will be worse. 

Not holding my breath…

…maybe I should!

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On 19/06/2021 at 8:39 AM, Vajra Fist said:

 

I guess this is directed at me? Yes I fully admit I am naive. I'm not a molecular biologist, nor do I pretend to that what I can learn on the certain quarters of the internet over the period of a few months can approximate in any way a formal education. 

 

I do know enough about vaccines though to know that they work. If it stops me getting covid and infecting people around me, then that's enough for me. If I suffer from side effects down the road, I'm willing to take that risk to protect the people I love. 

 

Edit: and yes while it is interesting to see the results of the poll, I do believe this is a polarising issue. Its like having a poll asking people if they voted Trump/for Brexit etc. Sometimes I think we'd all get along better if we were old fashioned and didn't discuss politics in polite company or among friends.

 

 

That is my whole point in asking 'which vaccine'   ( and I note no response to my questions )

 

some of them do not stop you from catching covid  and spreading it .    My sister is a molecular  biologist and I get most of my treatment advice from her .

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30 minutes ago, Nungali said:

My sister is a molecular  biologist and I get most of my treatment advice from her .

What a coincidence! So is mine, works in the biotech industry, and  I take treatment advice from her. 
 

She told me that she’s leaning on the side of Covid-19 being biological warfare. 

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20 hours ago, ralis said:

 

Modification as in bioweapon? Please reference virology literature.

 

I've not seen any evidence that it was modified with the specific intention of weaponization.

While that's entirely possible, it could also be for medical reasons, general understanding of SARS type viruses, or all of the above.

I think the general trend is to study these things and practical applications come out of that, often in unexpected ways.

 

PS - I guess I should add that, IMO, you can bet your ass that military interests are paying attention, funding, or influencing most if not all that goes on in the scientific world to some degree...

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5 hours ago, dwai said:

What a coincidence! So is mine, works in the biotech industry, and  I take treatment advice from her. 
 

She told me that she’s leaning on the side of Covid-19 being biological warfare. 

 

Mine said " Not that I am into conspiracy theories at al, but  .......  " ( then a huge complex sci-med rave) .  But that was to do with who gets what type of vaccine in Australia. 

 

( Thanks to her , I  still have a  prostate   :)   and thanks to these guys ;

 

 

bigstock-Saw-Palmetto-And-Pine-Flatwood-

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saw_palmetto_extract

 

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personally I don't think this is an artificial virus

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It is near impossible that a particular virus mutated and infected human and then infected the world.  The more likely scenario would be a big family of similar viruses infecting animals and humans many many times until it successfully spread.  So far there is no news about finding similar virus from bats or other animals.  It is highly dangerous as the source is not identified or dealt with.  

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Posted (edited)
5 hours ago, Master Logray said:

It is near impossible that a particular virus mutated and infected human and then infected the world.  The more likely scenario would be a big family of similar viruses infecting animals and humans many many times until it successfully spread.  So far there is no news about finding similar virus from bats or other animals.  It is highly dangerous as the source is not identified or dealt with.  

 

Not impossible at all. All species evolve due to evolutionary pressures. Evolve or die is how the natural world operates.

 

Corona virus strains are what cause flu, and other respiratory disease. There are literally thousands!

 

https://www.webmd.com/lung/coronavirus-strains#1

 

https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/leap-from-bats-to-humans-was-easy-for-sars-cov-2-study#Signs-of-evolutionary-adaptation

Edited by ralis
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Posted (edited)

The "lab leak" theory presents an interesting dilemma for non-vaccination people: take your chance with a manufactured or modified virus, or a manufactured vaccine. 

 

 

Edited by forestofemptiness
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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, forestofemptiness said:

The "lab leak" theory presents an interesting dilemma for non-vaccination people: take your chance with a manufactured or modified virus, or a manufactured vaccine. 

 

 

Both of which have been tested on millions of people with readily available reporting on the result. Your precious cells are altered as a result of either.

Edited by stirling
Correction.
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2 minutes ago, stirling said:

 

Both of which have been tested on millions of people with readily available reporting on the result. Your precious DNA is altered as a result of either.

 

In what way is DNA altered? Facts please?

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3 minutes ago, ralis said:

 

In what way is DNA altered? Facts please?

 

My mistake. DNA is not altered. Your CELLS are altered to recognize the virus.

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3 hours ago, Taomeow said:

 

No mistake, according to the latest scientific discoveries showing the mechanism whereby, contrary to the long-held dogma, human cells do write RNA sequences into  DNA.

https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2021/06/210611174037.htm

 

  

 

Can you explain the implications of this   (  please phrase it 'as if' you where talking to a medical 'dunderhead' ) .

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2 hours ago, Nungali said:

 

Can you explain the implications of this   (  please phrase it 'as if' you where talking to a medical 'dunderhead' ) .

 

It may mean that the current theoretical model, according to which mRNA-based vaccines can't write new messages into human DNA, i.e. can't introduce new, permanent, irreversible, inheritable changes of unknown nature and behavior into the human genome, is obsolete and erroneous.  

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So, its possible that an individuals behaviour  ( and other 'traits' and 'things' ) in a lifetime, or in an experience can be coded into the DNA and be a part of a new individuals inherited programming and expressions ?

 

If so that has huge implications  in many fields, including things like Exopsychology ( Circuit 6 the neurogenetic programme ) , Shamanism ( re ancestor 'consciousness continuation' )  ,  etc.

 

[ For those that didnt already suspect that is what was happening  ;)  ]

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Posted (edited)
11 hours ago, Nungali said:

So, its possible that an individuals behaviour  ( and other 'traits' and 'things' ) in a lifetime, or in an experience can be coded into the DNA and be a part of a new individuals inherited programming and expressions ?

 

This has been discovered by epigenetics quite a bit earlier, though largely ignored.  Traumatic experiences in particular -- these are, sadly, capable of not only changing our DNA but changing it in ways that definitely get inherited in the second and third generation and, quite possibly, well beyond.  Also things like "learned helplessness" -- idle genes not allowed expression due to epigenetic factors get "silenced" (with a literal molecular straightjacket known as Sir2P,  to name one mechanism I know).  There's some evidence that by the third or fourth generation they might get unblocked and become functional again if epigenetic factors start working in the opposite direction.  E.g., massively lactose-intolerant Asians, if they live in the West with a lot of dairy exposure, produce offspring in the third generation whose rates of lactose intolerance are no higher anymore than in Western populations.

 

If we were exposed to environments where our immune systems were allowed to become fully normal and functional again, maybe by the third or fourth generation we would regain our health as a species.  Or maybe we're too far gone.  Who knows.  In any event, we're moving in the opposite direction, and accelerating on that road like never before in all of our history.

 

11 hours ago, Nungali said:

If so that has huge implications  in many fields, including things like Exopsychology ( Circuit 6 the neurogenetic programme ) , Shamanism ( re ancestor 'consciousness continuation' )  ,  etc.

  

Yup.  I've long thought that, biologically speaking, shamanism (as well as some "esoteric" practices like taoist internal alchemy) works by unblocking some of our silenced genes and silencing some of the new and harmful epigenetic acquisitions.  Our DNA contains not just all of our own history as a species but all of the history of life on earth.  So a shaman or a qualified neidan practitioner might just be turning on some of our "forgotten senses" -- which to a "blocked" human may seem as "extrasensory perceptions" or "supernatural abilities" but which are routinely operational to this day in many species with which we share common ancestry and common genes.  "Unsilencing" them might give us unlimited abilities equal to those of any creature of any element, from bacterium radiodurans that thrives in nuclear reactors to ordinary house moth whose sense of smell works at the distance of 12 miles and can detect a single molecule of the substance it's interested in in the air, to creatures that can extract breathing oxygen from water like fish, see like eagles (who could comfortably read a newspaper from 8 miles away -- if they were literate), detect electromagnetic streams all over the planet like migrating birds and use them for navigation, or turn into werewolves if that's what we've unblocked.   Or live for hundreds of years like great tortoises, or for thousands of years like tjikko trees (the oldest surviving one is almost 10 thousand years old).  There's no limit.  Life on Earth is inexhaustible and we are part of it.  Or, rather, we could be.

 

One thing (out of many) that kills me about transhumanism is that it is not only a deadening dead end for humanity -- it's also a scientific fiasco, an epic fail of human cognition.  We don't need any of that shit.  We have so much of what's so much better.  Or rather, we could have that if it wasn't straightjacketed for thousands of years.  

 

Pardon the accidental tangent.  

Edited by Taomeow
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Posted (edited)
4 hours ago, Taomeow said:

I've long thought that, biologically speaking, shamanism (as well as some "esoteric" practices like taoist internal alchemy) works by unblocking some of our silenced genes and silencing some of the new and harmful epigenetic acquisitions.  Our DNA contains not just all of our own history as a species but all of the history of life on earth.  So a shaman or a qualified neidan practitioner might just be turning on some of our "forgotten senses" -- which to a "blocked" human may seem as "extrasensory perceptions" or "supernatural abilities" but which are routinely operational to this day in many species with which we share common ancestry and common genes. 

 

Thank you for your whole post from which I've quoted just a small portion. I very much liked the first sections. I didn't know all that but long suspected it. But I have no interest in the direction you took it with the type of superhuman powers you list. And, while I find these insights into molecular biology interesting, I’ll stick with my own understanding that it’s the qi that pervades the universe that’s the master writer of this information encoded in our DNA. Qi isn’t just energy, it’s also wisdom and goes by the name ‘holy spirit’ in Christianity. My life has taught me that the more I’m able to allow this divine wisdom to express itself through me, the more contentment I feel.  It’s contentment that springs from feeling an increasing degree of connection with something far greater than myself.  For me personally, the wisdom and worldviews of the great spiritual traditions of the world are sufficient for me to cultivate this connection. It’s to this wisdom I look to alter my self, not to any tinkering with my DNA by technologists.  

Edited by Yueya
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9 minutes ago, Yueya said:

 

Thank you for your whole post. I very much liked the first sections but have no interest in the direction you took it with the type of superhuman powers you list. And, while I find these insights into molecular biology interesting, I’ll stick with my own understanding that it’s the qi that pervades the universe that’s the master writer of this information encoded in our DNA. Qi isn’t just energy, it’s also wisdom and goes by the name ‘holy spirit’ in Christianity. My life has taught me that the more I’m able to allow this divine wisdom to express itself through me, the more contentment I feel.  It’s contentment that springs from feeling an increasing degree of connection with something far greater than myself.  For me personally, the wisdom and worldviews of the great spiritual traditions of the world are sufficient for me to cultivate this connection. It’s to this wisdom I look to alter my self, not to any tinkering with my DNA by technologists.  

 

Thank you for your opinion.  I believe you misunderstood mine though.  "Any tinkering with my DNA by technologists" is the farthest thing from my aspirations. 

 

As for what people might see as unnecessary and suspect "superpowers," it depends on how powerless we are rendered in our bodies, minds and spirits, how little power we agree to claim as our birthright, relegating its dispensation to someone else.  There were times -- not long ago -- when the powers of reading and writing were considered by most to be supernatural and suspect.  In my country, a hundred years ago you could get executed if you had the power to speak a foreign language -- while in yours, if you didn't you were classified as an animal, not a human. 

 

Look back 10 thousand years and imagine how many powers we might have surrendered, drop by drop by a whole falling-off chunk of brainpower, soul power, body power, in the course of allowing others ("the powerful," "authorities," "our betters" etc.) to dispense or withhold them.  Powers that were our very own natural innate legacy.  Of which technological tinkerers understand very little if anything at all.  If our natural potentials, our powers, didn't die a death by a thousand cuts in every century, if instead we were to claim them, discover them, co-create them with nature, awaken them -- or leave them alone, whichever gets you through the night -- how different the world could have been.  

 

We all explore venues toward claiming some of that lost legacy we feel in our very DNA or qi or "holy spirit," wherever we "believe" that yearning is coming from.  If "holy spirit" is your venue, more power to you.  As for qi-DNA connection, as a taoist with some deep-immersion shamanic experiences I could contribute a thought or two...  but let's leave that conversation (if it ever takes place) for another thread. 

 

Apologies to the OP for veering a bit too far from the topic.    I'll contribute something more relevant to make up for it.  

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Posted (edited)

 

8 hours ago, Taomeow said:

 

Thank you for your opinion.  I believe you misunderstood mine though.  "Any tinkering with my DNA by technologists" is the farthest thing from my aspirations. 

 

As for what people might see as unnecessary and suspect "superpowers," it depends on how powerless we are rendered in our bodies, minds and spirits, how little power we agree to claim as our birthright, relegating its dispensation to someone else.  There were times -- not long ago -- when the powers of reading and writing were considered by most to be supernatural and suspect.  In my country, a hundred years ago you could get executed if you had the power to speak a foreign language -- while in yours, if you didn't you were classified as an animal, not a human. 

 

Look back 10 thousand years and imagine how many powers we might have surrendered, drop by drop by a whole falling-off chunk of brainpower, soul power, body power, in the course of allowing others ("the powerful," "authorities," "our betters" etc.) to dispense or withhold them.  Powers that were our very own natural innate legacy.  Of which technological tinkerers understand very little if anything at all.  If our natural potentials, our powers, didn't die a death by a thousand cuts in every century, if instead we were to claim them, discover them, co-create them with nature, awaken them -- or leave them alone, whichever gets you through the night -- how different the world could have been.  

 

We all explore venues toward claiming some of that lost legacy we feel in our very DNA or qi or "holy spirit," wherever we "believe" that yearning is coming from.  If "holy spirit" is your venue, more power to you.  As for qi-DNA connection, as a taoist with some deep-immersion shamanic experiences I could contribute a thought or two...  but let's leave that conversation (if it ever takes place) for another thread. 

 

Apologies to the OP for veering a bit too far from the topic.    I'll contribute something more relevant to make up for it.  


 But it is an interesting sidetrack. I actually agree with you that certain genes are turned on through the alchemical journey, and that actual cellular changes in the components of the *organs themselves or the genetic, biochemical, cellular, and developmental systems that underlie their production and function take place. Probably not a lot,  but something happens. 

I read once that evolution broadly consists of increases in the complexity of the senses, so it makes sense that to evolve the senses there has to be something genetic going on, in this case expressing what has heretofore remained dormant. 

*edited

This is not to reduce the importance of qi and the subtle channels, the development of these also seem to be required to produce clairvoyance, clairaudience etc. 

Edited by Bindi
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15 minutes ago, Bindi said:

 


 But it is an interesting sidetrack. I actually agree with you that certain genes are turned on through the alchemical journey, and that actual cellular changes in brain organs take place. Probably not a lot,  but something happens. 
 

I read once that evolution broadly consists of increases in the complexity of the senses, so it makes sense that to evolve the senses there has to be something genetic going on, in this case expressing what has heretofore remained dormant. 
 

This is not to reduce the importance of qi and the subtle channels, the development of these also seem to be required to produce clairvoyance, clairaudience etc. 

 

Far as senses are concerned, it's very hard for one species to evaluate the complexity of senses of another, but I don't think evolution increases their complexity -- I think it only changes (by emphasizing or de-emphasizing) areas of sensory expertise based on the emergence of new conditions.  Senses are like natural languages -- none are poorer than others (according to the great anthropologist Claude Lévi-Strauss, no relation to the jeans) -- it's just that if you don't understand a language (let alone don't have organs to hear it at all), you can't tell Shakespeare from meaningless noise.  Animals we consider far "lower" than ourselves on the evolutionary continuum (another mistake if you ask me) keep shocking researchers when their proprietary senses get discovered of which we used to have no idea.  Not just animals, plants too.  I remember spending a whole summer once mostly dedicated to meditation, and one of the objects I would direct my awareness to for an hour every morning was a patch of cucumbers I planted in spring.  By autumn I was in absolute awe of their sensory, spacial, behavioral intelligence, as well as their cooperation, planning, adaptive changes of plans... of their overall awareness at least matching mine and, quite possibly, exceeding it exponentially.  I'm not kidding.  

 

To say nothing of entheogenic plants. :)      

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