Qi Gong and Tibetan Yogas?

[spanda]

Not sure if this is the right place to post this, but curious if there are any practitioners here who have experience in Qi Gong and Tibetan Yogas like tummo or trulkor?

 

Not looking to see which is "better" - just curious of similarities and differences. My meditation practice is rooted in Tibetan traditions, but am also discovering Qi Gong as a movement/energetic systems - and curious about where the paths lead.

[Dainin]

I've had a lot of qigong experience and some limited workshop exposure to Tibetan Yoga practices like Tsa Lung and Trulkhor. Some of the foundational concepts regarding energy and meridians are similar, although the "maps" are different. One difference I noticed right away is that the Tibetan practices seemed to emphasize breath retention during the movements much more than qigong does. Breath retention can be found in Indian pranayama practices such as Kumbhaka. Since Buddhism was transmitted from India to Tibet, maybe this came along with it, although I suppose it could be indigenous to Tibet as well. Personally, I didn't really enjoy the breath retention during movement so didn't continue with the practices. They are interesting though.

[Creation]

I have a bit of experience with both.  The aspects of the energy system being accessed and the methods of access are different, even though there are also similarities. 

 

Tibetan Yoga is designed to work with the central channel and the red and white bindu within the chakras along the central channel, and uses the left and right channel and five vayus (prana and apana in particular) to facilitate this.  The methods for channeling energy involve strong muscular contractions and strong mental focus. 

 

Daoism is working with the energies of the five phases (which might have overlap with the five vayus, but also have correspondences with organs and energy channels not present in the Indian-derived traditions), and mixing and transforming pre and post heaven jing, qi, and shen in the three dantians, which spill over into the whole body, particularly along the channel system (microcosmic orbit, etc.).  The methods involve gaining conscious control of the body's connective tissue, using the absolute minimum of muscular or mental effort. 

 

Not sure if that helps.

[spanda]

Thanks @Creation Great write up on the energetic similarities + differences.

 

I'm interested too in what the experiential differences are, if any, in terms of how they effect consciousness and awakening. Do they have different flavors, or are they leading to similar experiences? The siddhis I've read about seem very similar, but. curious about their effects on Mind

[Creation]

2 hours ago, spanda said:

Thanks @Creation Great write up on the energetic similarities + differences.

 

I'm interested too in what the experiential differences are, if any, in terms of how they effect consciousness and awakening. Do they have different flavors, or are they leading to similar experiences? 

Good question.  From the stories I've heard, Daoist practice makes you really good at dhyana/samadhi - being able to sit in meditation for days etc.  Whereas this type of meditative absorption is not considered so important in the Tibetan traditions - I haven't heard of Tibetan masters sitting for days on end.  They are going instead for knowing nature of all things as emptiness, in all states of consciousness.  I don't have the knowledge to know how the mechanics of each practice support these different goals.  

[spanda]

Thanks.

 

I'm pretty clueless on Daosim, but have a good, if basic, grasp on Tibetan Dzogchen and Mahamudra outlooks, so what you're saying sounds accurate. I have read Tummo can help one experience the emptiness of their experiences and self, to oversimplify.

[yugenphoenix]

These are all methods that were created by an individual for himself, based on his particular energetic makeup (Original JING or genetic lineage) and tendencies of the Five Elements. The map is not the territory 😉

[Cleansox]

On 2021-03-25 at 3:12 AM, Creation said:

I have a bit of experience with both.  The aspects of the energy system being accessed and the methods of access are different, even though there are also similarities. 

 

Tibetan Yoga is designed to work with the central channel and the red and white bindu within the chakras along the central channel,

I feel that there are greater differences in the beginning, but after one has started with the reversal of water, created ling sui, and progressed with the dragon and tiger phase, one would see more of the similarities between the practices. 

[forestofemptiness]

My basic impression is that Tibetan internal practice is very square and fiery. It involves holds, locks, strong intention, etc. It also tends to generate a lot of heat, which is helpful if you live in Tibet. 

 

Qigong (as I've learned it) is largely the opposite: no holds, no strong intention, no stops. It is more fluid, flowing, and circular. 

 

Personally, I like Buddhism for the mind, and Taoism for the body. 

[spanda]

But do dakinis visit if your Qi Gong is advancing?

Edited April 26, 2021 by spanda

[SirPalomides]

2 hours ago, spanda said:

But do dakinis visit if your Qi Gong is advancing?

Jade maidens? Or is that more for alchemists?

[TheGrayJediKnight]

I practice 4 Yogas of Mahamudra, which if I so desire (I do) I can eventually extend my Mahamudra training into the 6 Yogas of Naropa (Heat Yoga or Tummo included). 

 

I also dabble in Qigong... Lately it's been Eight Brocades Qigong (seated) though I only have been doing 4 out of 8 Brocades because the full practice takes me 2 hours. But I feel it, and it includes an equivalent to cultivating Inner Fire, akin to Heat Yoga and Wim Hof Method. Bonus, this Qigong is also practiced by both Buddhists and Daoist alike.

Edited December 13, 2021 by TheGrayJediKnight

[KingSven]

I've had a bit of experience with both and I would agree with what has been said so far here.  Experientially I do find they have different effects on the body and the mind.  Tibetan yoga produces a very clear and awake state of mind which facilitates visualization and recognition of emptiness/nature of mind quite well.  Daoist practices at least at the early stages I am at, creates a notably different state of mind which is perhaps more relaxed and grounded in the body.  Both states produce both clarity and relaxation but have a different emphasis and feel. 

 

It seems to me Tibetan yoga works mainly by changing the subtle body and mind straight away, and the physical body falls in line with that, where as Daoist practices start by changing the body as well as the mind, with the focus becoming more subtle later on (I haven't practiced these stages).  There are different qualities of the mind used for Neigong vs. Tibetan yoga which apply to their particular systems.  Damo Mitchell has said that Neigong conflicts with Tibetan yoga as the subtle body is built in a different way.

 

That being said, although I am primarily a Vajrayana practitioner, I have shifted my physical focus to Neigong as I'm finding it very helpful in undoing the damage that's been done to my body by chronic disease, stress, etc. in a way that Tibetan yoga didn't seem to address.   I'm finding that Tibetan practices overall can be very stimulating, and doing Neigong work focused on sinking the Qi and building the principles into the body is extremely helpful for overstimulated modern people.  Tibetans classically did not have the same widespread issues with overstimulation and deficiency that modern people usually do, although it may be possible to address these issues with Tibetan yoga if instructed properly.  However I've found for me personally, yoga with strong intention is not as helpful as Daoist practices using a more Wu Wei approach, at this phase in my development.

[GreytoWhite]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=csI01ksmUXw

 

[Trunk]

On 3/23/2021 at 2:00 PM, spanda said:

Not sure if this is the right place to post this, but curious if there are any practitioners here who have experience in Qi Gong and Tibetan Yogas like tummo or trulkor?

 

Large overlap, imho.

https://johndaoproductions.wordpress.com/2020/04/20/enso-emptiness-and-the-deep-centers/