What are emotions

[Taomeow]

15 minutes ago, sagebrush said:

I had this experience today in church where I am seeing this person sit ahead of me many pews. She looks like someone I want to see.

I know its not the person I want it to be-but I let myself think it was this person. The texture of hair matched, the color of hair matched, slight build..and  then emotion of sadness/tears began briefly. 

So I have to disagree because of my own experience this morning. My thoughts came first then the emotion followed.

 

 

"I want it to be" was an emotion.  "I let myself think" was what came next.  "And then emotion of sadness/tears began" -- feedback loop from thought back to emotion.  

 

So, it was emotion leading to thought reverting back to emotion.  The thought acting as mediator, beginning in emotion and returning to emotion.  

 

To schematically simplify the sequence, it was something like this:  "I want" -- "so I pretend it is what I want" -- "but I know it isn't" -- "so I get sad over not getting what I want."  Thought is what you used to pretend, to briefly create a make-believe situation where your emotion -- "I want" -- gets gratified.  Then the "pretend" thought gets defeated by the actual reality -- "it isn't what I want" -- which takes you back to the emotion that started it all, now clarified as "I want but I can't get" -- which corresponds to what we call sadness.  Which is an emotion.  

 

I would recommend "Descartes' Error" by cognitive neuroscientist Antonio Damasio.  He investigated those "as-if loops" in the neocortex and had interesting observations to report.   

Edited December 13, 2020 by Taomeow

[sagebrush]

I am learning to be careful about what I ingest as far as books are concerned.

 

to say that I got sad over not getting what I want is stretching that moment that I experienced.

 

it wasnt about not getting what I wanted.

 

I thank you for the recommendation although I am not likely to read it at this time. I am immersing myself in THE WORD OF GOD.

and I find that very fulfilling.

 

that experience was like a quiet little tender rain--

 

 

[Maddie]

13 minutes ago, sagebrush said:

I thank you for the recommendation although I am not likely to read it at this time. I am immersing myself in THE WORD OF GOD.

and I find that very fulfilling.

 

 

Which God do you study, and what have you discovered so far?

[ZenFlow]

In early Buddhism, there is the concept of dependant origination. The main part of it is that a sensation arises in the six senses, followed by a feeling of unpleasant/pleasant, followed by your mind craving that feeling followed by clinging onto it by thoughts. IMO emotions are just a byproduct of your attachments to which you crave/cling.

[Maddie]

24 minutes ago, ZenFlow said:

In early Buddhism, there is the concept of dependant origination. The main part of it is that a sensation arises in the six senses, followed by a feeling of unpleasant/pleasant, followed by your mind craving that feeling followed by clinging onto it by thoughts. IMO emotions are just a byproduct of your attachments to which you crave/cling.

 

Yes I think dependent origination does a good job of explaining why emotions arise, but it still makes me wonder, what are emotions?

 

One thing about dependent origination that I have a hard time understanding in relation to emotions is when you are just sitting there doing nothing and emotions arise out of the blue and the senses are not involved.

 

The six senses give arising to contact which gives arising to feeling which gives arising to craving, but what is the reason for emotions when there is no obvious sensory stimulus? What gives arise to emotions then? And still what are they? Sankhara's?

[helpfuldemon]

6 hours ago, Cleansox said:

So if one stand by and watch evil being done, and do nothing, is one than good? 

No it works like this:  do no harm, and do not obstruct Will, unless someone is doing harm or obstructing Will, then you are free to obstruct or harm.  This is when Evil becomes justice.

[Nungali]

5 hours ago, sagebrush said:

I had this experience today in church where I am seeing this person sit ahead of me many pews. She looks like someone I want to see.

I know its not the person I want it to be-but I let myself think it was this person. The texture of hair matched, the color of hair matched, slight build..and  then emotion of sadness/tears began briefly. 

So I have to disagree because of my own experience this morning. My thoughts came first then the emotion followed.

 

 

Church got a bit boring for you ,  eh ?

 

[Nungali]

4 hours ago, dmattwads said:

 

Which God do you study, and what have you discovered so far?

 

I am betting its that 'one and only God'     

[Nungali]

3 hours ago, dmattwads said:

 

Yes I think dependent origination does a good job of explaining why emotions arise, but it still makes me wonder, what are emotions?

 

One thing about dependent origination that I have a hard time understanding in relation to emotions is when you are just sitting there doing nothing and emotions arise out of the blue and the senses are not involved.

 

The six senses give arising to contact which gives arising to feeling which gives arising to craving, but what is the reason for emotions when there is no obvious sensory stimulus? What gives arise to emotions then? And still what are they? Sankhara's?

 

 

 

Process in the unconscious  that you are not aware of . The unconscious 'thinks thing through' comes to conclusions or confusions in its own way and in its own time scale  that you might not be aware of .  These processes can trigger responses in the physical body and conscious mind .   This is why various types of psychotherapy are often used  to get into the unconscious to try and help resolve issues .

 

[sagebrush]

No it wasn't boring at all. This was about 2/3 minutes of my thought process.

 

Church begins with singing along with the band/choir-which I enjoy. 

 

Then on with some announcements including helping world wide organization doing charitable works in poor regions decimated by Isis or natural disasters. 

 

It provides a sense of purpose and community.

 

I enjoy one of many pastors and benefit from the sermons and teachings from the bible.

 

Always pleased when I get myself up and out of the house and attend church. I feel more positive and more happy.

 

People are friendly even behind the oppressive masks and social distancing.

 

I care not to open myself up for FURTHER ridicule and negativity that is pervasive on this forum especially on the God topic.

[Nungali]

32 minutes ago, helpfuldemon said:

No it works like this:  do no harm, and do not obstruct Will, unless someone is doing harm or obstructing Will, then you are free to obstruct or harm.  This is when Evil becomes justice.

 

But you haven't  answered how the mouse and cat fit into this .   Are you going to obstruct the cats will to kill the mouse ?

[Nungali]

3 minutes ago, sagebrush said:

No it wasn't boring at all. This was about 2/3 minutes of my thought process.

 

Church begins with singing along with the band/choir-which I enjoy. 

 

Then on with some announcements including helping world wide organization doing charitable works in poor regions decimated by Isis or natural disasters. 

 

It provides a sense of purpose and community.

 

I enjoy one of many pastors and benefit from the sermons and teachings from the bible.

 

Always pleased when I get myself up and out of the house and attend church. I feel more positive and more happy.

 

People are friendly even behind the oppressive masks and social distancing.

 

I care not to open myself up for FURTHER ridicule and negativity that is pervasive on this forum especially on the God topic.

 

You are in the conversation now though.  Try not to see it as  ridicule and negativity .

 

Sure you enjoy church ... I am supposing it gives you the emotional charge you seek .   But are those emotions as strongly expressed in church as the ones that made you cry  ( crying is a pretty deep emotional response ) which wasnt a normal part of the church service and the joy you seek from it ?

 

SOMETHING   distracted your emotions away from the good emotions you where seeking , that's my point . 

 

Your emotions 'got bored ' .

[sagebrush]

It doesnt have anything to do with emotional charge. Thats just your speak.

I was tearful...not really crying.

it was a few moments and the moments are gone.

JEEZ US!

 

Whats up with a normal part of church service? You dont attend church. How can you make statements about what does or doesnt go on in a church service?

 

I thought Dao bums was about simplicity.

This group could complicate a gnat fart

 

Who said I was seeking good emotions? I take what shows up. like rain or sun

 

I go to church to listen what is being taught from the bible yeah and my mind drifts now and then consciously or unconsciously.

 

 

 

 

 

Edited December 13, 2020 by sagebrush

[Maddie]

25 minutes ago, Nungali said:

 

 

 

Process in the unconscious  that you are not aware of . The unconscious 'thinks thing through' comes to conclusions or confusions in its own way and in its own time scale  that you might not be aware of .  These processes can trigger responses in the physical body and conscious mind .   This is why various types of psychotherapy are often used  to get into the unconscious to try and help resolve issues .

 

 

Makes sense. Sounds like sankharas then.

[sagebrush]

Not to be rude but I have returned to answer someones question regarding what God I study.

 

I dont have a need to compute sankharas at this time.

 

I believe that good things will come from attending church and meditating on the Word.

 

I can do ALL THINGS through CHrist which strengthens me. Phillipians

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited December 13, 2020 by sagebrush
s

[Nungali]

17 minutes ago, sagebrush said:

It doesnt have anything to do with emotional charge. Thats just your speak.

 

So, you are denying  'emotional directives' ?   You dont attend church because it makes you 'feel good' ?

 

 

17 minutes ago, sagebrush said:

I was tearful...not really crying.

 

'tears began'   - that's crying  .   But if you say thats not really crying  ... well, okay then    ( I didnt say you where sobbing  or anything like that .

 

Even if we discount 'crying'  tears beginning '  is the same indication within the context I was talking about .

 

17 minutes ago, sagebrush said:

it was a few moments and the moments are gone.

JEEZ US!

 

Yeah, okay . But it was those few moments you chose to use to illustrate a point .

 

 

17 minutes ago, sagebrush said:

 

Whats up with a normal part of church service? You dont attend church. How can you make statements about what does or doesnt go on in a church service?

 

How can you make statements about whether I attend church or not ?

 

besides my statements where based on what you described as YOUR experience in church , so my attendence has little to do with your experience .

 

 

17 minutes ago, sagebrush said:

 

I thought Dao bums was about simplicity.

This group could complicate a gnat fart

 

Well, perhaps some here are trying to overly complicate things  .  Like suggesting my church attendance or lack of it has anything to do with what you described happened to you in church .

 

 

17 minutes ago, sagebrush said:

 

Who said I was seeking good emotions? I take what shows up. like rain or sun

 

We all seek good emotions  ... unless ...

 

You arent an 'Emo ' are you ?

 

 

 

 

 

17 minutes ago, sagebrush said:

 

I go to church to listen what is being taught from the bible yeah and my mind drifts now and then consciously or unconsciously.

 

 

Sure that is  why you go  .....  but does that make you feel good as well ?

[Maddie]

13 minutes ago, sagebrush said:

Not to be rude but I have returned to answer someones question regarding what God I study.

 

 

Yeah that was a sincere question. Based on the context of a few other posts I gather it's the the Christian God. Which denomination are you and what is your spiritual approach?

[sagebrush]

You enjoy harassing people?

 

This feels like that.

 

Its not going to move me.

 

I dont know if you attend church. I just doubt you do. If you do thats that and if you dont thats that.

 

 

[sagebrush]

I am not open for discussion on denomination nor spiritual approach.

 

Dont see how that is relevant to the Opening post of emotions

 

 

 

 

[steve]

4 hours ago, dmattwads said:

 

Yes I think dependent origination does a good job of explaining why emotions arise, but it still makes me wonder, what are emotions?

 

One thing about dependent origination that I have a hard time understanding in relation to emotions is when you are just sitting there doing nothing and emotions arise out of the blue and the senses are not involved.

 

The six senses give arising to contact which gives arising to feeling which gives arising to craving, but what is the reason for emotions when there is no obvious sensory stimulus? What gives arise to emotions then? And still what are they? Sankhara's?

 

Have you given similar consideration to thoughts? Why do they come up? Why a particular thought or memory at a given time? Sometimes one can trace patterns and connections, often there is no explanation. They just pop up, hang around, and vanish. Emotions are like that for me as well and I treat them similarly.

 

In the Tibetan paradigm it is a matter of the various winds (movements of subtle energy) interacting with our external circumstances or our internal milieu (the chakras). This is also the explanation for dreams. When the wind of our awareness encounters the energetic content of a particular chakra, a particular thought, emotion, or dream will be stirred and come into our awareness. That’s one explanation.

[Maddie]

43 minutes ago, sagebrush said:

I am not open for discussion on denomination nor spiritual approach.

 

Dont see how that is relevant to the Opening post of emotions

 

 

 

 

 

I guess it's about as relevant as saying you study the word of God in all caps on a post about emotions?

[Nungali]

1 hour ago, sagebrush said:

You enjoy harassing people?

 

This feels like that.

 

Its not going to move me.

 

I dont know if you attend church. I just doubt you do. If you do thats that and if you dont thats that.

 

 

 

I  have been enjoying talking about emotions , people's acceptance, denial and  explanations of them .  As a previously ordained priest in the Gnostic Church , congregation's   problems , as shared with me  (  one on one )  ,  where mostly  emotionally based .

 

Any 'directness'  or a 'challenging tone'  expressed towards you is due to your previous statements elsewhere  , eg .

 

"  Looking several people in the eyes now and wondering if you get tired of your spiritual bullshit because I sure do.

 

looking for money I suppose.  "

 

- after several people posted THEIR perspective on spirituality  ..... in a spiritually eclectic forum, mind you .

 

[Nungali]

1 hour ago, sagebrush said:

I am not open for discussion on denomination nor spiritual approach.

 

Dont see how that is relevant to the Opening post of emotions

 

 

 

 

 

 

It is entirely relevant for those that posted about emotions from the perspective of their own spiritual practices , which they seem to have no problem discussing or answering questions about .

[Cleansox]

8 hours ago, helpfuldemon said:

No it works like this:  do no harm, and do not obstruct Will, unless someone is doing harm or obstructing Will, then you are free to obstruct or harm.  This is when Evil becomes justice.

Ah. 

Why do I feel that this is based on the worship of some nasty semitic god? 

I can almost hear "god wills it" screamed while some poor sods blood is gushing on the ground. 

[helpfuldemon]

29 minutes ago, Cleansox said:

Ah. 

Why do I feel that this is based on the worship of some nasty semitic god? 

I can almost hear "god wills it" screamed while some poor sods blood is gushing on the ground. 

This is the basis of Law, do you have another way?