Emotions are the path

[Apech]

This expression 'emotions are the path' comes from Mahamudra Buddhism (possibly Dzogchen also) but I don't want to come at it particularly from a Buddhist perspective.  But that's where it comes from - so I thought I would establish that.

 

What does it mean?

 

What is emotion?  The word emotion comes from 'ex' meaning 'out' and 'motion' which itself comes from a PIE root *meue which itself means to 'push away'.  So overall it has the sense of pushing away.  So even though you can think of enjoyable emotions like joy for instance, there is still an underlying sense of pushing away or being pushed away.  So emotions have their base in duality and separation - whether pleasurable or painful.

 

Sometimes emotions are described as 'conflicting' or 'conflicted' which implies a push/pull in the motion.  Motion itself is simply the expression of energy.  So there is energy being discharged within ourselves which leads to separation of one feeling from another, or you could say separation between our sense of ourselves and our moods or actions.  The conflict being that we think of being a certain kind of person and then act differently because of conflicting emotions.  This can cause more problems with identity later when we try to justify to ourselves how we acted and so on.  So you can see a grand mess evolves.

 

When faced with this there are probably three stages of response.  Firstly trying to stop or control the emotion.  Then wanting to transform them into something better.  Then lastly waking up to precisely what is going on and why.  The first two are ok and natural but not really much use.  It's the last one where emotions become the path.

 

This does not mean that your individual feelings are particularly important.  They are just patterns of movement of energy.  So for instance, you might feel particularly angry about something and want to express it.  But that is missing the point.  If you are just indulging in the strength of yur feelings you aren't learning anything - even if there might be some temporary feeling of liberation.

 

It is in the emotional field where this 'pushing away' is occurring which is blocking your ability to see your true nature, duality is being generated through it.  One reason for cultivation is to create a unified and coherent being - one pointed focus - which can form the basis.  On different levels and different ways conflicting emotional states are being generated - for instance by holding together essentially contradictory ideas about ourselves and the nature of reality.

 

Unfortunately for most of us we have a huge baggage of emotional content and experiences to work through.  It can seem overfacing.  But nevertheless this is the work.

 

Just some thoughts (for you all to pick holes in  ).

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Michael Sternbach]

[steve]

 

7 hours ago, Apech said:

This expression 'emotions are the path' comes from Mahamudra Buddhism (possibly Dzogchen also) but I don't want to come at it particularly from a Buddhist perspective.  But that's where it comes from - so I thought I would establish that.

 

Yes, dzogchen also.

Everything is the path - sounds, lights, and rays.

 

7 hours ago, Apech said:

 

What does it mean?

 

What is emotion?  The word emotion comes from 'ex' meaning 'out' and 'motion' which itself comes from a PIE root *meue which itself means to 'push away'.  So overall it has the sense of pushing away.  So even though you can think of enjoyable emotions like joy for instance, there is still an underlying sense of pushing away or being pushed away.  So emotions have their base in duality and separation - whether pleasurable or painful.

 

Sometimes emotions are described as 'conflicting' or 'conflicted' which implies a push/pull in the motion.  Motion itself is simply the expression of energy.  So there is energy being discharged within ourselves which leads to separation of one feeling from another, or you could say separation between our sense of ourselves and our moods or actions.  The conflict being that we think of being a certain kind of person and then act differently because of conflicting emotions.  This can cause more problems with identity later when we try to justify to ourselves how we acted and so on.  So you can see a grand mess evolves.

 

When faced with this there are probably three stages of response.  Firstly trying to stop or control the emotion.  Then wanting to transform them into something better.  Then lastly waking up to precisely what is going on and why.  The first two are ok and natural but not really much use.  It's the last one where emotions become the path.

 

This does not mean that your individual feelings are particularly important.  They are just patterns of movement of energy.  So for instance, you might feel particularly angry about something and want to express it.  But that is missing the point.  If you are just indulging in the strength of yur feelings you aren't learning anything - even if there might be some temporary feeling of liberation.

 

It is in the emotional field where this 'pushing away' is occurring which is blocking your ability to see your true nature, duality is being generated through it.  One reason for cultivation is to create a unified and coherent being - one pointed focus - which can form the basis.  On different levels and different ways conflicting emotional states are being generated - for instance by holding together essentially contradictory ideas about ourselves and the nature of reality.

 

Unfortunately for most of us we have a huge baggage of emotional content and experiences to work through.  It can seem overfacing.  But nevertheless this is the work.

 

Just some thoughts (for you all to pick holes in  ).

 

I sometimes see practitioners who claim to work with “energy“ but somehow don’t address their emotional life. Not sure how that works. The single most powerful and practical energetic movement in our experience to work and play with is emotional. Warning - if you’re not seeing changes in that part of life, the practices are not working.

[old3bob]

fascinating indeed, another aspect is that there is no stopping true nature from springing forth and still retaining unity,  (when perceived)

Edited September 13, 2020 by old3bob

[Taomeow]

The etymology of the word is not "pushing away" -- it's ex+mōtus, "drawing out," "externalizing," "aiming outward" or "outward bound movement."  (A partial synonym, in terms of the pattern of energy motion, is "expression" -- pressure toward outward manifestation.) 

 

 This is what "emotion" is in terms of the energies of the world.  It is your energy's response to the energies of the world, an interaction between your energies and the energies of the world, the energetic you "going outward," toward this interaction.  And of course there's separation (co-creation) between you (or me) and the world, but "emotions" do not push one away from the other (whether another individual or the world)-- rather, they create an energy bridge between one and the other.   

 

That bridge is the way indeed.  

[Apech]

5 minutes ago, Taomeow said:

The etymology of the word is not "pushing away" -- it's ex+mōtus, "drawing out," "externalizing," "aiming outward" or "outward bound movement."  (A partial synonym, in terms of the pattern of energy motion, is "expression" -- pressure toward outward manifestation.) 

 

 This is what "emotion" is in terms of the energies of the world.  It is your energy's response to the energies of the world, an interaction between your energies and the energies of the world, the energetic you "going outward," toward this interaction.  And of course there's separation (co-creation) between you (or me) and the world, but "emotions" do not push one away from the other (whether another individual or the world)-- rather, they create an energy bridge between one and the other.   

 

That bridge is the way indeed.  

 

emotion (n.)

1570s, "a (social) moving, stirring, agitation," from Middle French émotion (16c.), from Old French emouvoir "stir up" (12c.), from Latin emovere "move out, remove, agitate," from assimilated form of ex "out" (see ex-) + movere "to move" (from PIE root *meue- "to push away"). Sense of "strong feeling" is first recorded 1650s; extended to any feeling by 1808.

 

https://www.etymonline.com/word/emotion#etymonline_v_5814

[Taomeow]

Just now, Apech said:

 

emotion (n.)

1570s, "a (social) moving, stirring, agitation," from Middle French émotion (16c.), from Old French emouvoir "stir up" (12c.), from Latin emovere "move out, remove, agitate," from assimilated form of ex "out" (see ex-) + movere "to move" (from PIE root *meue- "to push away"). Sense of "strong feeling" is first recorded 1650s; extended to any feeling by 1808.

 

https://www.etymonline.com/word/emotion#etymonline_v_5814

 

I know.  The English word "emotion" is not derived from the PIE root directly though.  It is derived from the Latin word and inherited its meaning.  

 

Digging for the PIE roots is fascinating but you have to allow for the branching out of the derivational tree far and wide.  In PIE, "blaku" means "white," but it branched out into English to mean "black," and you can't say that "white means black based on its PIE root."  Not today anyway.  

[Apech]

4 minutes ago, Taomeow said:

 

I know.  The English word "emotion" is not derived from the PIE root directly though.  It is derived from the Latin word and inherited its meaning.  

 

Digging for the PIE roots is fascinating but you have to allow for the branching out of the derivational tree far and wide.  In PIE, "blaku" means "white," but it branched out into English to mean "black," and you can't say that "white means black based on its PIE root."  Not today anyway.  

 

Well we'll have to disagree because I still think emotion retains the sense of pushing away.

[Taomeow]

44 minutes ago, Apech said:

 

Well we'll have to disagree because I still think emotion retains the sense of pushing away.

 

Some emotions.  But if you were ever to nurse a baby you'd know empirically that the original emotion humans are born with is the opposite.  No baby could survive if all emotions were all about pushing away.

 

The two primary energies life is hinged on are seeking and avoidance.  Not avoidance and avoidance.   

[silent thunder]

Word and phrase meaning seems to sift through each awareness in its own manner, and lately it seems so few even care about etymology these days... or know what that is...  and this precludes in depth conversations with broad understanding.

 

i'm tickled to see it addressed at all.  It provides so much context for me to know how folks are using words in conversations... particularly on subjects as subtle and dense as the ones that arise in a setting such as this...

 

one reason I abstain from so many topics (hard to believe I know) is that there is seldom a common or shared set of parameters for what the key and pivotal terms in a conversation mean, which causes me to realize that while we may all be talking together, we'll not be talking about the same things from similar avenues of perception and framing, but from our own reality tunnels...  and I end up recusing myself from participating as understanding is elusive and thus communication is slim even when many words are used.

 

my own process is one of constant and even at time simultaneous expansion/contraction.  (though that is a rare high skill that remains elusive, mostly it's one then the other)

 

expand, emote, explore, encounter...

 

withdraw, contract, analyze, assimilate, synthesize...

 

then expand again...

 

 

I certainly don't seem to be able to choose my emotions, any more than I choose my thoughts...

though lately it seems i garner the potential to influence which one's i feed and bolster to a certain extent...

[old3bob]

from chapter 25 :  (never has so much been said in so few words)

 

"...To be great is to go on,
To go on is to be far,
To be far is to return..."

[Taomeow]

32 minutes ago, silent thunder said:

 

my own process is one of constant and even at time simultaneous expansion/contraction. 

 

Yup.  The one and only, to some empirical taoists.    Everything else is related -- opening and closing, inward and outward, upward and downward, in-breath and out-breath, ultimately yin and yang.  The foundational energies of the world.

 

Have you ever seen Wang Liping's anti-covid routine that was posted on this site a while ago?  It's one of those that involve simultaneous expansion and contraction.   

[neti neti]

57 minutes ago, silent thunder said:

I certainly don't seem to be able to choose my emotions, any more than I choose my thoughts...

though lately it seems i garner the potential to influence which one's i feed and bolster to a certain extent...

 

... 

Edited September 13, 2020 by neti neti

[silent thunder]

35 minutes ago, Taomeow said:

 

Yup.  The one and only, to some empirical taoists.    Everything else is related -- opening and closing, inward and outward, upward and downward, in-breath and out-breath, ultimately yin and yang.  The foundational energies of the world.

 

Have you ever seen Wang Liping's anti-covid routine that was posted on this site a while ago?  It's one of those that involve simultaneous expansion and contraction.   

Yes!  That post caused me to log in just to read it, it seems... I recall I was engaged in something offline at the time, then found myself loggin' in to DB and wondering 'why?'... then read that in my feed and instantly understood, it reached out and called me.

 

This is what is behind my old avatar picture... toroidal spheres to me encompass the motion and action of simultaneous contraction/expansion that occurs in seems to comprise my very field of awareness.  Spiral lines of coalescing and intermingling energies from without and within... harnessing and expressing the old Hermetic Principle As Above, So Below; As Within, Without  perfectly.

 

my old avatar pic was a still pic of this animation which encompasses my experience of the process

 

edit to add:  this experience seems highlighted and engaged inherently in 'reverse breathing' practice...

Edited September 13, 2020 by silent thunder
change some wording and added a comment

[Taomeow]

/\  that torus is a fine example, for me, of how I occasionally fall bass ackwards into science -- i.e. I feel "something" and then start looking for "who was able to put it into words and/or formulas. "  In this case,  Nassim Haramein, and before him, a whole school of "heretical physics" proposed by some Russian physicists in the 1980s and dealing with "torsion fields."  

 

 

 

 

[Apech]

2 hours ago, Taomeow said:

 

I know.  The English word "emotion" is not derived from the PIE root directly though.  It is derived from the Latin word and inherited its meaning.  

 

Digging for the PIE roots is fascinating but you have to allow for the branching out of the derivational tree far and wide.  In PIE, "blaku" means "white," but it branched out into English to mean "black," and you can't say that "white means black based on its PIE root."  Not today anyway.  

 

Well in a way I can.  Obviously there are straight forward connections like blanco (Sp) and branco (Pt) and blank (Eng) and also black.  Whereas white comes down another line of words which also mean to shine.

 

Interestingly enough in physics a body which emits light perfectly dependent only on its temperature (i.e. how much energy it has) is called a black body. 

 

If you take a plain piece of paper we call it blank, meaning absence of colour, but it is white.  We even say things like 'all the colour drained from her face and she turned white as a sheet'.  If we examine light which contains all colours superimposed simultaneously it is white light.  If we take the same blank sheet of paper and crayons of all colours and scribble repeatedly over it, then eventually it will turn black.  So the black paper has all colours on it and the white light has all colour in it.  Space with white light passing unopposed through it appears black.  It lacks radiant colour.  Black and white are not dualistic opposites.  Meaning can shift in a spectrum like way around the sounds expressed.

 

 

[Taomeow]

2 minutes ago, Apech said:

 

Well in a way I can.  Obviously there are straight forward connections like blanco (Sp) and branco (Pt) and blank (Eng) and also black.  Whereas white comes down another line of words which also mean to shine.

 

Interestingly enough in physics a body which emits light perfectly dependent only on its temperature (i.e. how much energy it has) is called a black body. 

 

If you take a plain piece of paper we call it blank, meaning absence of colour, but it is white.  We even say things like 'all the colour drained from her face and she turned white as a sheet'.  If we examine light which contains all colours superimposed simultaneously it is white light.  If we take the same blank sheet of paper and crayons of all colours and scribble repeatedly over it, then eventually it will turn black.  So the black paper has all colours on it and the white light has all colour in it.  Space with white light passing unopposed through it appears black.  It lacks radiant colour.  Black and white are not dualistic opposites.  Meaning can shift in a spectrum like way around the sounds expressed.

 

 

 

Black and white flip into each other when they reach extremes, according to the taoist yin-yang theory.  Extreme yin turns into yang, and extreme yang turns into yin.  Saying that they are not dialectic opposites (and by the same token co-creating partners) based on this behavioral peculiarity leaves out a whole gamut of their other behaviors which prove they are.  They are -- and this doesn't contradict the premise (nor the empirical observations of this one behavior of theirs) that they turn into each other on a spectrum -- or rather at the outer extremes of any yin-yang phenomenon, which is to say, of any phenomenon.  Once extreme yang turns into yin, it can only be yin in comparison to something that is less yin, more yang.  They can't exist without each other, nothing is yang by itself and nothing is yin by itself.  (Despite some buddhist-influenced schools of taoism obsessing over "pure yang," a theoretical as well as an empirical impossibility to the original ones.  )

 

[neti neti]

Spoiler

https://svs.gsfc.nasa.gov/13326

 

[silent thunder]

51 minutes ago, Taomeow said:

/\  that torus is a fine example, for me, of how I occasionally fall bass ackwards into science -- i.e. I feel "something" and then start looking for "who was able to put it into words and/or formulas. "  In this case,  Nassim Haramein, and before him, a whole school of "heretical physics" proposed by some Russian physicists in the 1980s and dealing with "torsion fields."  

 

 

 

 

Nassim has his finger on the pulse... (just saw another great lecture/doc of his on Prime).  He's on the outskirts in a manner similar to David Bohm was in the early 1900's, whom I just recently discovered... and whom was ostricized and literally driven out of the country by Oppenheimer and Einstein.  Turns out it was the best thing to ever happen to him, as he ended up meeting and forming an instant deep friendship and working relationship with Krishnamurti for the next 35 years.

 

Though they approached awareness fields and consciousness interactions with the fabric of reality from opposing paradigms, they instantly felt affinity for the other's insights as intimately reflecting their own.

 

Similar to Fritjoff Capra's insights revealed in his book The Tao of Physics when he revealed the parralels between Modern Theoretical Quantum Physics and ancient descriptions in Taoism, Vedic and Buddhist paradigms...

 

22 minutes ago, neti neti said:

  Hide contents

https://svs.gsfc.nasa.gov/13326

 

wow... thank you for that one... <woof!>

Edited September 13, 2020 by silent thunder
added stuff

[natural]

a far away

very powerful

rabbit hole

known by a different name?

 

 

[neti neti]

2 hours ago, natural said:

a far away

very powerful

rabbit hole

known by a different name?

 

 

 

as close as here

omnipotent weakness

conscious space

unknown beable

[Apech]

44 minutes ago, neti neti said:

 

as close as here

omnipotent weakness

conscious space

unknown beable

 

wtf Neti I knew you were inscrutable .... but ....

[natural]

Apech ?

confused?

I am picking in some tall cotton

or lost amongst the weeds?

[Apech]

2 minutes ago, natural said:

Apech ?

confused?

I am picking in some tall cotton

or lost amongst the weeds?

 

I think some people got lost on their way to the Haiku chain.

 

 

[neti neti]

6 hours ago, Taomeow said:

 

Some emotions.  But if you were ever to nurse a baby you'd know empirically that the original emotion humans are born with is the opposite.  No baby could survive if all emotions were all about pushing away.

 

The two primary energies life is hinged on are seeking and avoidance.  Not avoidance and avoidance.   

 

Tell me about it. And there I was, seduced into yet another extravagant getaway ticket to the greatest story never told... nowhere. What a gyp. 

 

Cut off from source( at the umbilical!), all these radically obnoxious blinding lights, and for the love of all that could still be held sacred, not ONE willing and able nipple in sight!

 

Oh the agony !!! 

 

If ignorance is indeed bliss, guess I'll always just be a sucker for torture. 

 

Edited September 13, 2020 by neti neti