steve Posted August 12, 2020 And once he fucks up, no matter how serious or minor, he is incapable of admitting error regardless of the death toll. His narcissistic personality disorder prevents him from admitting failure, even if it means continued loss of life. Lives of others seem to mean nothing to him. Like I’ve said before, he’s an emanation of Shiva... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
forestofemptiness Posted August 13, 2020 Shiva? The God of Yogis? The divine being? Primordial consciousness? I would think more an emanation of Azathoth, the blind idiot god of Chaos. 3 hours ago, steve said: And once he fucks up, no matter how serious or minor, he is incapable of admitting error regardless of the death toll. His narcissistic personality disorder prevents him from admitting failure, even if it means continued loss of life. Lives of others seem to mean nothing to him. Like I’ve said before, he’s an emanation of Shiva... 3 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
steve Posted August 13, 2020 The destroyer deity in its many masques, some terrifying, some absurd... 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
zerostao Posted August 13, 2020 1 hour ago, steve said: The destroyer deity in its many masques, some terrifying, some absurd... Merely a dancer, surely nothing more. To think so would put one in the conspiracy theory camp. How do we label events that were thought conspiracy theories-- that later declassified documents shown were in fact, fact? 2 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Taomeow Posted August 13, 2020 4 hours ago, zerostao said: How do we label events that were thought conspiracy theories-- that later declassified documents shown were in fact, fact? Here's a few examples of exactly those. What do I call them? Small peanuts. The full Monty is never declassified. Still... even small peanuts might give someone a taste -- unless their palate has been rendered comfortably numb by continuously munching on prolefeed. And I'm not offering more than small peanuts because prolefeed withdrawal usually causes severe mental indigestion, which the victim typically tries to alleviate by shooting the messenger. Spoiler Human experimentation and medical malpractice: MKULTRA: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_MKUltra The Ministry of Defence turned large parts of the country into a giant laboratory to conduct a series of secret germ warfare tests on the public. A government report provides for the first time a comprehensive official history of Britain's biological weapons trials between 1940 and 1979 http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2002/apr/21/uk.medicalscience (http://archive.is/4nxNI) Over and over again, the military has conducted dangerous biowarfare experiments on Americans http://www.businessinsider.com/military-government-secret-experiments-biological-chemical-weapons-2016-9(http://archive.is/Za5UX) U.S. secretly tested carcinogen in Western Canada during the Cold War, researcher finds. The Pentagon never told the Canadian government that it would be spraying a chemical on Winnipeg and two Alberta towns. http://nationalpost.com/news/canada/u-s-secretly-tested-carcinogen-in-western-canada-during-the-cold-war-researcher-discovers (http://archive.is/vUyb4) Operation LAC (Large Area Coverage) was a U.S. Army Chemical Corps operation which dispersed microscopic zinc cadmium sulfide (ZnCdS) particles over much of the United States. The purpose was to determine the dispersion and geographic range of biological or chemical agents. Principally, the operation involved spraying large areas with zinc cadmium sulfide.[2] The U.S. Air Force loaned the Army a C-119, "Flying Boxcar", and it was used to disperse zinc cadmium sulfide by the ton in the atmosphere over the United States. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_LAC (http://archive.is/smWSp) From 1955 to 1972, Army doctors gave soldier 'volunteers' synthetic marijuana, LSD and two dozen other psychoactive drugs during experiments aimed at developing chemical weapons that could incapacitate enemy soldiers. https://www.wired.com/2007/04/the_secrets_of_/ (http://archive.is/UYyWk) 'Operation Delirium:' Psychochemicals And Cold War - "Throughout the 1950s and '60s, at the now-crumbling Edgewood Arsenal by the Chesapeake Bay in Maryland, military doctors tested the effects of nerve gas, LSD and other drugs on 5,000 U.S. soldiers to gauge the effects on their brain and behavior." https://www.npr.org/2012/12/11/166891159/operation-delirium-psychochemicals-and-cold-war (archive.org) (documentary: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R1GAaWy3HTw) From 1963 to 1966, Saul Krugman of New York University promised the parents of mentally disabled children that their children would be enrolled into Willowbrook in exchange for signing a consent form for procedures that he claimed were "vaccinations." In reality, the procedures involved deliberately infecting children with viral hepatitis by feeding them an extract made from the feces of patients infected with the disease https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unethical_human_experimentation_in_the_United_States#1950s Immediately after World War II, researchers at Vanderbilt University gave 829 pregnant mothers in Tennessee what they were told were "vitamin drinks" that would improve the health of their babies. The mixtures contained radioactive iron and the researchers were determining how fast the radioisotope crossed into the placenta. At least three children are known to have died from the experiments, from cancers and leukemia https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unethical_human_experimentation_in_the_United_States#Experiments_involving_other_radioactive_materials The Fernald School for the "feeble minded" was part of America's Eugenics movement, and the children there performed most manual labor, including cutting up the brains of mentally disabled people for scientific study. The boys were also given radioactive oatmeal in a study for Quaker Oats. http://www.cbsnews.com/news/americas-deep-dark-secret/ The Imperial Japanese Army's notorious medical research team carried out secret human experiments regarded as some of the worst war crimes in history. Its scientists subjected more than 10,000 people per year to grotesque Josef Mengele-style torture in the name of science, including captured Russian soldiers and downed American aircrews. The experiments included hanging people upside down until they choked, burying them alive, injecting air into their veins and placing them in high-pressure chambers. http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/asia/japan/7236099/Human-bones-could-reveal-truth-of-Japans-Unit-731-experiments.html (http://archive.is/hojxN) Guatemala syphilis experiment: American medical research project that lasted from 1946 to 1948 and is known for its unethical experimentation on vulnerable human populations in Guatemala. The Guatemala experiments remained a largely unknown event in U.S. medical history until the early 2000s. The total study population included more than 5,500 Guatemalan prisoners, sex workers, soldiers, children, and psychiatric patients, about one-quarter of whom were deliberately infected with syphilis, gonorrhea, or chancroid and all of whom were enrolled in the experiments without their consent. Among the most controversial methods used was “normal exposure,” in which sex workers infected with syphilis were used to transmit the disease to unsuspecting prisoners. Approximately 1,308 soldiers, prisoners, sex workers, and psychiatric patients, ranging from age 10 to 72, were intentionally exposed to STDs during the study. Syphilis exposure occurred through inoculation of the cervix in sex workers; through injection or direct sexual contact with infected sex workers in prisoners; and through injection, inoculation (via abrasion) of the penis, cisternal puncture (the insertion of a needle below the occipital bone at the back of the skull to access cerebrospinal fluid), or oral ingestion in psychiatric patients. Exposure to gonorrhea was carried out in sex workers through cervical inoculation and in Guatemalan soldiers through sexual contact with the sex workers and sometimes through urethral inoculation. https://www.britannica.com/event/Guatemala-syphilis-experiment (http://archive.is/8OmW9) Tuskegee syphilis experiment an infamous clinical study conducted between 1932 and 1972 by the U.S. Public Health Service. The purpose of this study was to observe the natural progression of untreated syphilis in rural African-American men in Alabama under the guise of receiving free health care from the United States government. The Public Health Service started working on this study in 1932 in collaboration with Tuskegee University, a historically black college in Alabama. Investigators enrolled in the study a total of 622 impoverished, African-American sharecroppers from Macon County, Alabama. Of these men, 431 had previously contracted syphilis before the study began, and 169[3] did not have the disease. The men were given free medical care, meals, and free burial insurance for participating in the study. The men were told that the study was only going to last six months, but it actually lasted 40 years.[4] After funding for treatment was lost, the study was continued without informing the men that they would never be treated. None of the men infected were ever told that they had the disease, and none were treated with penicillin even after the antibiotic was proven to successfully treat syphilis. According to the Centers for Disease Control, the men were told that they were being treated for "bad blood", a colloquialism that described various conditions such as syphilis, anemia, and fatigue. "Bad blood"—specifically the collection of illnesses the term included—was a leading cause of death within the southern African-American community.[4] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tuskegee_syphilis_experiment(http://archive.is/xGIQp) Big Pharma: "The pharmaceutical group GlaxoSmithKline has been fined $3 billion after admitting to bribing doctors and encouraging the prescription of unsuitable antidepressants to children." http://www.theguardian.com/business/2012/jul/03/glaxosmithkline-fined-bribing-doctors-pharmaceuticals "The British former boss of GlaxoSmithKline in China will be deported back to the UK after pleading guilty to bribery-related charges and being handed a three-year suspended prison sentence. Mark Reilly had been barred from leaving China for the past year and accused of overseeing a 'criminal godfather' scheme to bribe doctors with £300m worth of cash and sex to prescribe GSK drugs." https://www.theguardian.com/business/2014/sep/19/glaxosmithkline-china-mark-reilly-deported-uk-guilty-bribery-hunan Amid a targeted lobbying effort, pharmaceutical company lobbyists convinced Congress to weaken the DEA’s ability to go after prescription drug distributors, even as opioid-related deaths continue to rise, a Washington Post and ‘60 Minutes’ investigation finds. https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/2017/investigations/dea-drug-industry-congress/?utm_term=.42d91d09e9ea "The CEO of drug giant Insys Therapeutics bribed doctors to prescribe more opioids to patients who didn’t need them, according to federal authorities who arrested the executive after a raid... John Kapoor, the billionaire founder and CEO, led “a nationwide conspiracy to profit by using bribes and fraud to cause the illegal distribution of a fentanyl spray intended for cancer patients..." http://www.newsweek.com/big-pharma-opioid-crisis-bribery-arrest-694154 "In Guilty Plea, OxyContin Maker to Pay $600 Million. The company that makes the narcotic painkiller OxyContin and three current and former executives pleaded guilty in federal court to criminal charges that they misled regulators, doctors and patients about the drug’s risk of addiction and its potential to be abused. Company sales officials were allowed to draw their own fake scientific charts which showed a lower addictive potential, which they then distributed to doctors." http://www.nytimes.com/2007/05/10/business/11drug-web.html "Pharmaceutical giant Aspen plotted to destroy life-saving cancer medicines in order to drive prices up by 4,000%" http://www.independent.co.uk/news/health/drug-giant-aspen-plot-destroy-cancer-medicine-big-pharma-times-investigation-a7683521.html# False Flags Operation Northwoods- A plan to create false flag acts of terrorism against US citizens in order to provoke support for a war against Cuba. http://abcnews.go.com/US/story?id=92662&page=1 (PDF of the actual document: https://nsarchive2.gwu.edu/news/20010430/northwoods.pdf) On 4 April 1953, the CIA was ordered to undermine the government of Iran over a four-month period, as a precursor to overthrowing Prime Minister Mohammad Mosaddegh. One tactic used to undermine Mosaddegh was to carry out false flag attacks "on mosques and key public figures", to be blamed on Iranian communists loyal to the government. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/False_flag#Project_TP-Ajax In 1985, the French foreign intelligence services infiltrated and sank a Greenpeace ship and blamed it on terrorists. The French government wanted to prevent the ship from interfering with a planned nuclear test. One crew member died. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sinking_of_the_Rainbow_Warrior The Bay of Pigs Invasion https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bay_of_Pigs_Invasion Nearly 50 years before the war in Iraq, Britain and America sought a secretive "regime change" in another Arab country they accused of spreading terror and threatening the west's oil supplies, by planning the invasion of Syria and the assassination of leading figures. Newly discovered documents show how in 1957 Harold Macmillan and President Dwight Eisenhower approved a CIA-MI6 plan to stage fake border incidents as an excuse for an invasion by Syria's pro-western neighbours, and then to "eliminate" the most influential triumvirate in Damascus. https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2003/sep/27/uk.syria1 Water quality: NYC fudged records to show day care centers’ water was tested for lead, but no tests were performed. DOHMH — the agency that's required to inspect all 11,000 child care centers in New York City annually — had more or less given up on the task. http://www.nydailynews.com/new-york/nyc-faked-day-care-centers-lead-water-level-test-records-article-1.2686760(http://archive.is/qyTaC) 5,300 U.S. water systems are in violation of lead rules http://www.cnn.com/2016/06/28/us/epa-lead-in-u-s-water-systems/(http://archive.is/DYMBq) US authorities distorting tests to downplay lead content of water https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2016/jan/22/water-lead-content-tests-us-authorities-distorting-flint-crisis (http://archive.is/z00lw) "Records analyzed by The New York Times indicate that the Clean Water Act has been violated more than 506,000 times since 2004, by more than 23,000 companies and other facilities, according to reports submitted by polluters themselves." http://www.nytimes.com/2009/09/13/us/13water.html (http://archive.is/HOSNv) Chicago Tribune: 11,000 Crestwood, Illinois residents were knowingly given tapwater contaminated with cancer-causing chemicals for 40 years. Federal agents raided Crestwood's village hall, their Department of Public Works building, and the police department. http://archive.is/D7Ddc , http://archive.is/V9Btl The Government's influence in TV shows and movies: Washington DC’s role behind the scenes in Hollywood goes deeper than you think. "On television, we found more than 1,100 titles received Pentagon backing – 900 of them since 2005, from ‘Flight 93’ to ‘Ice Road Truckers’ and ‘Army Wives.' Between 1911 and 2017, more than 800 feature films received support from the US Government’s Department of Defence (DoD), a significantly higher figure than previous estimates indicate. These included blockbuster franchises such as Transformers, Iron Man, and The Terminator. http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/hollywood-cia-washington-dc-films-fbi-24-intervening-close-relationship-a7918191.html (http://archive.is/bbMwx) Over the decades, the relationship between Hollywood and the military has served the needs of both sides: Filmmakers gain access to equipment, locations, personnel and information that lend their productions authenticity, while the armed forces get some measure of control over how they're depicted. That's important not just for recruiting but also for guiding the behavior of current troops and appealing to the U.S. taxpayers who foot the bills. National CineMedia, which sells ads in movie theaters, paired the Army and 20th Century Fox for a marketing campaign designed to reach potential recruits. The campaign intercut footage from the Fox superhero movie "X-Men: First Class" with images of real soldiers as a voice-over intoned, "Heroes — ordinary people who discover they can do extraordinary things." The spots played in cinemas, and exit polls of 17- to 24-year-olds leaving the movie theater found that those who saw the ad were 25% more likely to say they would consider joining the Army. http://articles.latimes.com/2011/aug/21/entertainment/la-ca-military-movies-20110821 (http://archive.is/01L57) How the CIA Helped Make “Zero Dark Thirty” - Behind the scenes, the CIA secretly worked with the filmmakers, and the movie portrayed the agency’s controversial “enhanced interrogation techniques” — widely described as torture — as a key to uncovering information that led to the finding and killing of bin Laden... but the massive Senate torture report released in December 2014 found that the program was brutal, mismanaged and — most importantly — didn’t work. http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/frontline/article/watch-how-the-cia-helped-make-zero-dark-thirty/ (http://archive.is/zIRh0) Banking: Everything Is Rigged: The Biggest Price-Fixing Scandal Ever http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/news/everything-is-rigged-the-biggest-financial-scandal-yet-20130425 (http://archive.is/etdQa) Libor Scandal: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Libor_scandal Citicorp (C), JPMorgan Chase (JPM), Barclays (BCS) and Royal Bank of Scotland (RBS) agreed to pay more than $5 billion for conspiring to fix the price of U.S. dollars and euros, the Justice Department said Wednesday. http://www.cbsnews.com/news/in-rare-admission-of-guilt-wall-st-banks-admit-they-rigged-markets/ Wachovia bank paid out a fine less than 2% of the bank's $12.3bn profit for 2009 for laundering money for drug cartels https://www.theguardian.com/world/2011/apr/03/us-bank-mexico-drug-gangs HSBC pays out 1.9 Billion dollar fine for laundering money for drug cartels. "Obviously, $1.9 billion is a very large number, but it's very manageable" without affecting HSBC's bottom line, said Ian Gordon, head of bank research for Investec Securities in London. "It's clearly within market expectations." http://www.usatoday.com/story/money/business/2012/12/11/hsbc-laundering-probe/1760351/ The US department of justice said HSBC had moved $881m for two drug cartels in Mexico and Colombia and accepted $15bn in unexplained "bulk cash", across the bank's counters in Mexico, Russia and other countries. In some branches the boxes of cash being deposited were so big the tellers' windows had to be enlarged. https://www.theguardian.com/business/2012/dec/14/hsbc-money-laundering-fine-management (http://archive.is/adOf8) Surveillance: "Four Central Intelligence Agency officers were embedded with the New York Police Department in the decade after Sept. 11, 2001, including one official who helped conduct surveillance operations in the United States, according to a newly disclosed C.I.A. inspector general’s report. That officer believed there were “no limitations” on his activities, the report said, because he was on an unpaid leave of absence, and thus exempt from the prohibition against domestic spying by members of the C.I.A. Another embedded C.I.A. analyst — who was on its payroll — said he was given 'unfiltered' police reports that included information unrelated to foreign intelligence, the C.I.A. report said." https://www.nytimes.com/2013/06/27/nyregion/cia-sees-concerns-on-ties-to-new-york-police.html (http://archive.is/yKwIa) "The C.I.A. monitoring of journalists in 1963, 1971 and 1972, including wiretapping their phones and setting up observation posts across the street from their offices to track their comings and goings and their visitors, was a practice that the White House itself employed during the Nixon administration." https://washington.blogs.nytimes.com/2007/06/26/project-mockingbird/(http://archive.is/pp4YM) Operation Chaos, Project Merrimac, and Project Resistance were three related CIA domestic spying programs. The purpose of 'Chaos' was to "amass files on Americans suspected of being domestic dissidents" and look into any foreign influence on leftist movements. Under Merrimac, "CIA agents infiltrated peace groups and black activist groups with the aim of anticipating attacks on the agency itself." The aim of project Resistance was to "compile information on radical groups that might target CIA activities or assets. The program compiled information from around the country, but specifically targeted college campuses in its search for radical elements. The CIA obtained additional information from local police, and campus officials." https://www.salon.com/2014/03/20/8_times_the_cia_used_american_spies_to_spy_on_americans_partner/(http://archive.is/GJyNa) CBS 60 Minutes: "The top secret surveillance network is called Eschelon." (13 minutes, reported by CBS prior to 9/11) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sfdm78zcv8o NSA 'offers intelligence to British counterparts to skirt UK law' http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2013/jun/10/nsa-offers-intelligence-british-counterparts-blunkett (http://archive.is/lJDaY) NSA shares raw intelligence including Americans' data with Israel http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/sep/11/nsa-americans-personal-data-israel-documents (http://archive.is/0CqqZ) "Britain's GCHQ intelligence agency can spy on anyone but British nationals, the NSA can conduct surveillance on anyone but Americans, and Germany's BND (Bundesnachrichtendienst) foreign intelligence agency can spy on anyone but Germans. That's how a matrix is created of boundless surveillance in which each partner aids in a division of roles. http://www.spiegel.de/international/world/secret-documents-nsa-targeted-germany-and-eu-buildings-a-908609.html(http://archive.is/lZseh) Inside the secret world of the corporate spies who infiltrate protests https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/dec/12/inside-the-secret-world-of-the-corporate-spies-who-infiltrate-protests Wal-Mart hired Lockheed Martin to monitor union organizing among their employees. https://www.bloomberg.com/features/2015-walmart-union-surveillance/ (http://archive.is/RIk5V) "Cops scan social media to help assess your ‘threat rating’" http://blogs.reuters.com/great-debate/2014/12/12/police-data-mining-looks-through-social-media-assigns-you-a-threat-level/ Science Whistleblowers and information about little-known problems in science: Scientific American: How Pharma-Funded Research Cherry-Picks Positive Results https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/trial-sans-error-how-pharma-funded-research-cherry-picks-positive-results/ Richard Horton, editor in chief of The Lancet, recently wrote: “Much of the scientific literature, perhaps half, may simply be untrue. Afflicted by studies with small sample sizes, tiny effects, invalid exploratory analyses, and flagrant conflicts of interest, together with an obsession for pursuing fashionable trends of dubious importance, science has taken a turn towards darkness. As one participant put it, “poor methods get results”. http://www.thelancet.com/pdfs/journals/lancet/PIIS0140-6736%2815%2960696-1.pdf In 2009, Dr. Marcia Angell of the New England Journal of Medicine wrote: “It is simply no longer possible to believe much of the clinical research that is published, or to rely on the judgment of trusted physicians or authoritative medical guidelines. I take no pleasure in this conclusion, which I reached slowly and reluctantly over my two decades as an editor of The New England Journal of Medicine.” http://www.nybooks.com/articles/archives/2009/jan/15/drug-companies-doctorsa-story-of-corruption/ "I can't tell you exactly what percentage of the trials are flawed, but I think the problem is far bigger than you imagine, and getting worse...it is so easy to manipulate data, conceal it or fabricate it...there is almost a code of silence not to speak about it." -Whistleblower Dr. Peter Wilmshurst http://www.spiegel.de/international/zeitgeist/spiegel-interview-with-whistleblower-doctor-peter-wilmshurst-a-1052159.html Silencing the Scientist: Tyrone Hayes on Being Targeted by Herbicide Firm Syngenta http://www.democracynow.org/2014/2/21/silencing_the_scientist_tyrone_hayes_on Back in the 1960s, a sugar industry executive wrote fat checks to a group of Harvard researchers so that they’d downplay the links between sugar and heart disease in a prominent medical journal—and the researchers did it, according to historical documents reported in the journal JAMA Internal Medicine. One of those Harvard researchers went on to become the head of nutrition at the United States Department of Agriculture, where he set the stage for the federal government’s current dietary guidelines. All in all, the corrupted researchers and skewed scientific literature successfully helped draw attention away from the health risks of sweets and shift the blame solely to fats—for nearly five decades. The low-fat, high-sugar diets that health experts subsequently encouraged are now seen as a main driver of the current obesity epidemic. http://arstechnica.com/science/2016/09/sugar-industry-bought-off-scientists-skewed-dietary-guidelines-for-decades/ Scientific American: How the FDA and other scientific institutions manipulate the media using "close-hold embargoes" and other shady tactics https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/how-the-fda-manipulates-the-media/ Miscellaneous: The 1984 Rajneeshee bioterror attack was the food poisoning of 751 individuals in The Dalles, Oregon, through the deliberate contamination of salad bars at ten local restaurants with Salmonella. A leading group of followers of Bhagwan Shree Rajneesh (later known as Osho) called Rajneeshees had hoped to incapacitate the voting population of the city so that their own candidates would win the 1984 Wasco County elections.[2] The incident was the first and single largest bioterrorist attack in United States history https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1984_Rajneeshee_bioterror_attack Harvey Weinstein’s Army of Spies. The film executive hired private investigators, including ex-Mossad agents, to track actresses and journalists. https://www.newyorker.com/news/news-desk/harvey-weinsteins-army-of-spies "EPA officials were aware of the severity of danger at Ground Zero in contrast to their public statements at the time." NYC allowed people to return after the collapse of the towers because the mayor's office was under pressure from business owners to open more of the "red zone." http://www.cnn.com/2006/US/09/07/nyc.air/index.html?section=cnn_health A suppressed report reveals that some of Britain's most respected industries, including law firms, telecoms giants and insurance companies routinely hire criminals to steal rivals' information. http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/crime/the-other-hacking-scandal-suppressed-report-reveals-that-law-firms-telecoms-giants-and-insurance-8669148.html Volkswagen systematically cheated on U.S. air pollution tests as part of their "Clean Diesel" Scheme by dynamically modifying car performance with software that turns on full pollution controls only during official testing, a scheme that is set to cost them $18bn http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2015-09-19/vw-clean-diesel-scheme-exposed-as-u-s-weighs-criminal-charges A government-controlled industry group targeted popular food bloggers, major publications and a celebrity chef as part of its sweeping effort to combat a perceived threat from an egg-replacement startup backed by some of Silicon Valley’s biggest names. https://www.theguardian.com/business/2015/sep/06/usda-american-egg-board-paid-bloggers-hampton-creek The forgotten history of how automakers invented the crime of "jaywalking" https://www.vox.com/2015/1/15/7551873/jaywalking-history Government and Corporate control of social media, spreading propaganda and advertising disguised as average people. https://np.reddit.com/r/shills/comments/4kdq7n/astroturfing_information_megathread_revision_8/ In 1992, Dateline N.B.C issued an on-air apology for airing a story that claimed a GM truck burst into flames after a side-impact crash. Investigators found the truck in a junkyard and discovered an incendiary device to cause the flame. The Newsdivision president resigned and 3 producers fired. https://www.sfgate.com/business/article/THRIVING-ON-FAILURE-3158547.php Child abuse documentary Hollywood 'didn't want you to see' goes viral https://www.theguardian.com/film/2017/nov/01/an-open-secret-hollywood-child-abuse-documentary https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/COINTELPRO (Here's a documentary) Operation Paperclip https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Paperclip Operation Mockingbird - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Mockingbird (Footage of hearings from the 70s [3:12]: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cDCfTIapds0) CIA Files Prove America Helped Saddam as He Gassed Iran http://foreignpolicy.com/2013/08/26/exclusive-cia-files-prove-america-helped-saddam-as-he-gassed-iran/ https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Political_abuse_of_psychiatry https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Sea-Spray https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Big_Buzz Project 112 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_112 A division of the pharmaceutical company Bayer sold millions of dollars of blood-clotting medicine for hemophiliacs -- medicine that carried a high risk of transmitting AIDS -- to Asia and Latin America in the mid-1980's while selling a new, safer product in the West. http://www.nytimes.com/2003/05/22/business/2-paths-of-bayer-drug-in-80-s-riskier-one-steered-overseas.html CIA heart attack gun that uses a frozen dart that dissolves in the body. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BSEnurBApdM The toxin was undetectable in autopsies. "The girl, whose testimony helped build support for the Persian Gulf war, was identified only as "Nayirah," supposedly to protect family members still in Kuwait. Another piece of information was also withheld: that she is not just some Kuwaiti but the daughter of the Kuwaiti Ambassador to the U.S. How did the girl's testimony come about? It was arranged by the big public relations firm of Hill & Knowlton on behalf of a client, the Kuwaiti-sponsored Citizens for a Free Kuwait, which was then pressing Congress for military intervention. Mr. Lantos knew the girl's identity but concealed it from the public and from the other caucus co-chairman, Representative John E. Porter of Illinois." http://www.nytimes.com/1992/01/15/opinion/deception-on-capitol-hill.html The Black Panther Coloring Book https://www.vice.com/read/coloring-the-black-panthers 1985 - Police drop bomb on radicals' home in Philidephia. The fire spread to 50 to 60 other houses in the neighborhood. Steve Harmon, a resident of the area, said: ''Drop a bomb on a residential area? I never in my life heard of that. It's like Vietnam.'' http://www.nytimes.com/1985/05/14/us/police-drop-bomb-on-radicals-home-in-philadelphia.html Overthrow of the democratically-elected leader of Iran for BP Oil in 1953. https://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/aug/19/cia-admits-role-1953-iranian-coup Overthrow of the democratically-elected leader of Guatemala for the United Fruit company (now Chiquita) in 1954 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1954_Guatemalan_coup_d%27%C3%A9tat The little-told story of how the U.S. government poisoned alcohol during Prohibition with deadly consequences. http://www.slate.com/articles/health_and_science/medical_examiner/2010/02/the_chemists_war.html 2 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
steve Posted August 13, 2020 12 hours ago, zerostao said: Merely a dancer, surely nothing more. To think so would put one in the conspiracy theory camp. That all depends on your personal metaphysics, I guess. Quote How do we label events that were thought conspiracy theories-- that later declassified documents shown were in fact, fact? I would simply call them facts. The distinction between fact and fiction is not always clear. Organizations like Qanon take full advantage of this, not to mention most world governments, major corporations, media outlets, etc... Discriminating wisdom has never been more necessary or more elusive, IMO. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
zerostao Posted August 13, 2020 Absolutely Qanon exploits the blurred lines between fact and fiction. And even with facts, the narrative can be slanted to suit the narrator's objective. Qanon is not the only player spinning webs. Psyops, political warfare, winning the hearts and minds, propaganda, whatever names it goes by, and there are many, as many as the methods and tactics used, to influence value systems, belief systems; emotional buttons are pushed, motives altered, reasoning and behavior altered. Taking a cursory glance inside Taomeows's spoiler box reinforces "conspiracy theorists' proclivity towards accepting conspiracies. To me it's one of the dark arts. As far back in history you want to look you can find evidence of its practice. In the current mass media internet phase global connections allow free and fast access to information and disinformation. Black ops aka false flags are combined with psyops to target pretty much anyone and everyone; from political groups, governments, militaries, civilian populaces, even down to individuals. Being able to see this dark tactic playing out on certain groups and yet being unaware the same game just from a different group is influencing ones own attitudes is common. 20th century French thinkers were the bane of my higher education. One such, Jacques Ellul who wrote about the impact of technology on society. The major theme of all his works was the threat to human freedom and religion posed by modern technology. One of his most influential works was Propaganda: The Formation of Men's Attitudes. A dark art indeed. No matter what bolt of cloth one is cut from, its still cloth. What is made of cloth? Puppets? 4 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
silent thunder Posted August 13, 2020 Fiction seems to go down a little more smoothly (and is less likely to be rejected by the potential host) when dosed with a tinge of truthfulness... 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ilumairen Posted August 13, 2020 Personally, I trust those with power to generally act in what they perceive as their own best interests (interests which typically begin and end with the maintenance of said power - regardless of harm (to the extent they can get away with it without harming themselves and what they value) to “others” (be it emotional, psychological or physical harm.) I also believe this has been so woven into the fabric of societal structure that much of it can blatantly occur. I do believe in the “deep state” as a paradigm of ever changing faces, and to use a phrase TM presented cannot force myself into the dissonance which would allow me to believe otherwise. 3 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Taomeow Posted August 13, 2020 4 minutes ago, silent thunder said: Fiction seems to go down a little more smoothly (and is less likely to be rejected by the potential host) when dosed with a tinge of truthfulness... "A spoonful of sugar helps the medicine go down in a most delightful way," as Disney taught everybody. 19 minutes ago, zerostao said: Being able to see this dark tactic playing out on certain groups and yet being unaware the same game just from a different group is influencing ones own attitudes is common. It may be the crux of the matter. People, generally, are fitted with ideological brain implants convincing them that demonizing, despising, hating "the other side" (whatever the "dark side" dispensed for the moment happens to be) is all it takes to understand how the game is played. In reality they aren't even pawns. They are snacks served on the side of the chessboard for the players to stay refreshed. 1 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
steve Posted August 13, 2020 47 minutes ago, zerostao said: In the current mass media internet phase global connections allow free and fast access to information and disinformation. Sasha Baron Cohen gave a passionate speech about the threat of unrestrained social media on our lives that I found well presented - 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
manitou Posted August 13, 2020 20 hours ago, RobB said: I am not sure that this is so different from 'rudderless' and 'nobody is in control'. It is interesting though. To what extent is the tao working it's incomprehensibly complex mechanisms - chaotic. Clearly there is no rudder (or tiller rather) to grasp nor any one individual directing the action but is it 'directionless'? This is a really interesting question. Control. Rudderless. I remember in the movie Ghandi, Ghandi was asked by a reporter "You are certainly ambitions, aren't you?" Ghana's response was "I hope not". To immerse yourself in the Dao, IMO, does produce a bit of rudderless-ness. I don't want control any more - I was fighting for control all my life, and my controlling things didn't work out too well. No, there is no rudder per se. But I think Daoists see the value of riding the waves of life. The concept of surrender is one that doesn't come easy to us in the West, but as a person progresses along their spiritual path (whichever one it is) it becomes apparent that if we loosen our grip on control, that "life" will bring to us things we could have never imagined. The most valuable jewel within Daoism, IMO, is the concept of Not-Doing. Not to be confused with laziness. Not-doing is the ability to see an existing dynamic and let it play out, perhaps contrary to an initial urge to 'control things'. Not-doing is how everything gets done. It is magical, and it works beyond anything I've ever seen. Situations which seem impossible find a way to straighten themselves out; they go with the natural flow of life. Our good intentions and attempts at control serve only to delay the perfect outcome. Not-Doing is best done with the most clarity a person can muster. It's almost as if we step out of ego and kick it to the curb - in order to see things as they truly are, despite our prior life conditioning. Once a person gets to the place where he has predominately mastered ego, this type of clarity is achieved, more and more as the conquest of ego continues. Then you can truly see the dynamics that are at play. And life has a funny way of going higher, and higher, and higher. Even if the appearances are to the opposite. The one promise of the DDJ that comforts me is 'For things to be deflated, they must first be inflated'. It sure comes in handy for these strange times. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
moment Posted August 13, 2020 (edited) On 8/10/2020 at 12:30 AM, johndoe2012 said: There is active Russian disinformation going on using people's dislike for anything to destabilize society. More chaos equals freer movement for Putin and friends. Then there is also growing up in a society where money is the object of desire fueled by American social media. The hyper focus on lack and the overly simplistic tools on how to fix that lack: cars, houses, career, 'the secret'. After some time you get the feeling 'the system is rigged' and 'somebody is controlling the system' which it is in a way. Basically the young ones are inherenting a system that is exploiting and controlling them, at least that is one way of interpretating the gravitation towards conspiracy theories. Also I think the current way of using facts to shut down how people feel about things is counterproductive. If people still feel the system is rigged then surely those facts have not solved the real issue? The fact checking way relies on suppression of feelings and so-called 'scientific evidence' rather than a resolution of said feelings. "Also I think the current way of using facts to shut down how people feel about things is counterproductive. If people still feel the system is rigged then surely those facts have not solved the real issue? The fact checking way relies on suppression of feelings and so-called 'scientific evidence' rather than a resolution of said feelings." I agree with you in some ways here. But, it is such a thorny conundrum! The need to search for as much truth as possible is essential, yet to use it to suppress legitimate feelings, feeds into tribalism and confrontational politics! I would like you, if you would be so kind, to expand on this idea, please. Because, in many ways, this is at the root of a de-evolution that creates social/political cancer. I believe we must, become better at understanding how to, create greater health. Edited August 13, 2020 by moment 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
zerostao Posted August 13, 2020 Loop, stuck in,,, Truth or consequences. Its just a game show. "Politicians all seem like game show hosts to me, " ---sting Spoiler Don't believe anything you read on the internet without using a fact checker. Who checks the checkers ? We are to believe a mom & pop operation discerns all truth? How far down the rabbit hole do you need to go to chase rabbits? In the above spoiler box those propagandizing Russians suggest Yale university may be corroborating with conspirators. This great fabled institution of higher learning (i enjoyed John Roger's course on Milton there and worth every cent) is above shadowy deals with conspirators, right. Right, skull n bones non withstanding, of course. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Taomeow Posted August 13, 2020 5 minutes ago, zerostao said: How far down the rabbit hole do you need to go to chase rabbits? Sometimes one has to go deep down the rabbit hole, but sometimes just looking at negative spaces between the lines, right on the surface, is enough. What is not talked about -- what is deleted, ridiculed, not mentioned, debunked, "fact checked," swept under the rug, dismissed without investigation, or labeled "conspiracy theory" -- that's where one needs to look. And since all of it is right on the surface, all that is required to see it is, change one's focus. Should be a cultivator's default skill, right? Didn't your (generic "your") masters, gurus, teachers ever teach you how to do it? I wonder what stopped them... OK then, let me try to introduce you to that particular skill, Changing Your Focus 101. When someone in the media takes hold of your head, clips your eyelids open like in that Clockwork Orange brainwashing scene, and fixes it so you are forced to look in a particular direction -- "look here!! Keep looking here... and now (neck twist) look here! And now here!!" -- ask yourself this simple question. What are you looking away from when you look at what you're prompted to look at?.. Many things only become visible if you focus on negative spaces. Do not ignore the yin of information, the invisible, the hidden, the not loud, the not in your face kind. 99% of reality is yin. Dark matter. And cats can see in the dark. 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
zerostao Posted August 13, 2020 Spot on, Plato's cave. We had a president who must've had the same guru as sun lu tang.both were able to cross a snowy field without leaving so much as rabbit tracks. Spoiler My night vision ain't bad. For me,, trying to read through dark blocks of redacted text is somewhat harder. Apparently some are skilled in that. Why else would heavily redacted pages,, thousands of them that were due to be released early 2017 by legislative action after being hidden 25 years still be guarded so close? Twenty thousand, seven hundred and eighteen days have passed since that morning when one walked in front of a school book depository and without a trace, except for a chance photograph. 2017 -25= 1992, if my math is correct. Why 1992? Was someone leaving office then? Didn't Trump say that after 41 passed away he would unseal those pages? Now, he is saying in 2021 he will. Don't look now but Trump can't be found. Thats a different story though. 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RobB Posted August 13, 2020 4 hours ago, manitou said: But I think Daoists see the value of riding the waves of life. The concept of surrender is one that doesn't come easy to us in the West, but as a person progresses along their spiritual path (whichever one it is) it becomes apparent that if we loosen our grip on control, that "life" will bring to us things we could have never imagined. The most valuable jewel within Daoism, IMO, is the concept of Not-Doing. Not to be confused with laziness. Not-doing is the ability to see an existing dynamic and let it play out, perhaps contrary to an initial urge to 'control things'. Not-doing is how everything gets done. It is magical, and it works beyond anything I've ever seen. Situations which seem impossible find a way to straighten themselves out; they go with the natural flow of life. Our good intentions and attempts at control serve only to delay the perfect outcome. My teacher has said that one of the first goals/achievements in Daoist practice is to be able to flow with the changes of the world- which I think chimes with much of what you say above. 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
qofq Posted August 14, 2020 (edited) 5 hours ago, Taomeow said: Sometimes one has to go deep down the rabbit hole, but sometimes just looking at negative spaces between the lines, right on the surface, is enough. What is not talked about -- what is deleted, ridiculed, not mentioned, debunked, "fact checked," swept under the rug, dismissed without investigation, or labeled "conspiracy theory" The example I've found which succinctly expresses the exceptionally subtle (in relation to the dense) way "they" manipulate the "heard" has television shows and their stories as the delivery mechanism. For example, for all the shows i've seen on TV and movies since being a kid NOT ONE of them EVER had as a part of the story a group of employees taking their workplace from their employer. We got always a distaste for our bosses/job, hell we got supernatural Betelgeuse and Rambo and Fox and the Hound and I could go on and on... A buffet really. Yet still, a workforce takeover... never once. I'm not encyclopedic on the matter but I think the point stands. And that shapes how people view their world in a way it's hard to even talk about due to it being so extremely taken for granted. Because when I use this point people usually feel a dissonance of "It's an impossible feat / yet who hasn't fantasized about democratically electing their supervisors" And people accept all types of impossible feats in the movies so that's not the reason they have never seen it. its never usually a lighting flash command to do x y or z! It's contextual manipulation. though cases like sharpie's subliminal stab during the 2011 OWS can certainly be overt- Edited August 14, 2020 by qofq 3 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Taomeow Posted August 14, 2020 45 minutes ago, qofq said: The example I've found which succinctly expresses the exceptionally subtle (in relation to the dense) way "they" manipulate the "heard" has television shows and their stories as the delivery mechanism. For example, for all the shows i've seen on TV and movies since being a kid NOT ONE of them EVER had as a part of the story a group of employees taking their workplace from their employer. (...) its never usually a lighting flash command to do x y or z! It's contextual manipulation. Exactly. What I called "negative spaces" or "yin information" -- but it actually has an official name: tacit knowledge. Manipulating that is something that is undertaken and accomplished systemically, via all channels of perception simultaneously. And given that under normal circumstances it constitutes the essence of our very humanity, removing that and slipping in, drop by drop, bit by bit, piece by piece someone else's installations to replace it with all manner of social engineering agendas is the ultimate manipulation technique. In full swing for a very long time -- practically out of control today -- and rife with disastrous outcomes for our tomorrow. 3 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SirPalomides Posted August 14, 2020 (edited) On 8/8/2020 at 10:52 AM, steve said: Why are we drawn to this? One obvious reason is the well-known track record for mendacity by politicians, journalists, and appointed experts of all stripes, and the fact that, yes, conspiracies do happen, and that powerful people with common interests are naturally going to collude to protect those interests. Sometimes these conspiracies are brought to light in mainstream reporting or declassified documents, though usually well after the actors can be held accountable and the damage has been done. That's life. In countries where the politics are relatively stable and appear to follow the stated rules, conspiracy theories might seem unnecessary but if you're in a place where assassinations, coups, and blatant rigging are a normal part of politics then it is perfectly natural to speculate about hidden actors and agendas behind every move. However even in these seemingly stable, transparent democracies of the West, where politicians often openly collude with the rich (or simply are the rich) it's not unreasonable to assume that not everything is as it seems. Of course that doesn't mean that the official narrative is always a lie or that any theory contradicting the official narrative is correct. I for one dismiss out of hand any kind of theory that ascribes superhuman levels of competence, unity, and coordination to a more or less secret elite. That kind of thinking goes well beyond informed speculation into the elaboration of a new, almost metaphysical worldview (I remember someone arguing that David Icke's talk about lizard people was actually an elaborate gnostic parable!). While there might be powerful individuals we don't hear much about, the blocs of interests are not hidden and their cards are mostly on the table. Then there are "astroturf" conspiracy theories, planted or encouraged by wily operators, which are actually designed to reinforce some segment of the elite by arousing violent fear among the base who can then be deployed against enemies if necessary. QAnon seems to be working quite well that way. Another attraction of conspiracy theories- especially for the wilder ones- is the false sense of empowerment they give. In a society where the power or potential social impact of an individual seems more circumscribed than ever, if I can be one of those wise few who have unlocked the secret, who have exposed the whole rotten façade, then I am like a new Prometheus, or at least like a Winston Smith, threatening to the order (though hopefully not enough to be actually double-crossed, imprisoned, and tortured). (I said "false sense of empowerment" though I do think there is a degree of real power- perhaps infinite power- albeit not political power, in being able to make a world of one's own. I think this is better accomplished in poetry, art, love, games.) Edited August 14, 2020 by SirPalomides 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Taomeow Posted August 14, 2020 (edited) I don't use blanket-definition labels -- especially the ones weaponized toward social engineering/mind control purposes. So "conspiracy theory/theorist" without quotation marks is absent from my vocabulary altogether. It is a fubar label. Instead I discern between 1. Unproven or unprovable theories. Most of these are institutionalized, widely accepted, taken for granted and treated as "facts" for all purposes. E.g. the theory that there's hell for those who disobey certain rules and heaven for those who do, that the savior died for our sins, that the messiah is coming, that there's going to be a Judgment Day, etc.. (The much juicier ones omitted, don't want to "go there.") 2. Theories whose acceptance is fully contingent on hearsay -- you have no personal access to the information that would prove or disprove a proposed theory, you take some authority's (or counterauthority's -- whichever is a bigger authority to you personally) word for it on the basis of, essentially, "daddy knows best" indoctrination. Most of what we call "education" and nearly all of our "higher education" is shaped along these lines. Nearly all of our political expertise, ditto. 3. Theories born of misguided minds, ulterior motives, or blatant deception. Self-explanatory. Many in public circulation as "scientific facts" or "political facts" or "facts of history." Take your pick. 4. Theories born of tacit knowledge -- "something fishy is going on here." These cover a wide range, from a lot of wrong tracks to a lot of right tracks. Getting on the right track is deadly dangerous in many cases and those who get on the right track are more often than not quite efficiently discouraged from proceeding via a wide array of tried and true methods, and occasionally eliminated. 5. Theories born of perceptive or imaginative minds that at some point stop being theories and become reality. E.g. the theory that women are not intellectually inferior to men used to be considered a "radical conspiracy." The equality of races, ditto. I know many people of all races who still think it's a conspiracy theory and that in reality particular races are superior to particular other races. 6. Theories based on divine or otherwise "supernatural" revelations. These occasionally visit devout mystics, shamans, entheogen users not corrupted by irredeemable karma, and so on. One such theory asserts that we are all one. If it threatened the status quo it would be deemed a conspiracy theory that wrongfully questions the proven reality of individualism, exceptionalism, national interests, etc.. But it doesn't, so it just flies under the radar of social engineering and avoids the label "conspiracy theory." No one cares to "disprove" it because it is practically inconsequential. My point is, I'm trying to convince some of you to get out of the bad company. To stop mistaking your use of the term "conspiracy theory" for a badge of respectability worn by those superior intellects that "don't believe in conspiracy theories." It isn't. It's merely newspeak for crimethink. I.e. a term whose function is to simplify a complex phenomenon to a label that is dispensed toward reward or punishment of particular behaviors. Like "doubleplusungood," this one is utilized as a selection marker toward punishment for crimethink. I would avoid. Edited August 15, 2020 by Taomeow 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RobB Posted August 14, 2020 32 minutes ago, Taomeow said: My point is, I'm trying to convince some of you to get out of the bad company. To stop mistaking your use of the term "conspiracy theory" for a badge of respectability worn by those superior intellects that "don't believe in conspiracy theories." It isn't. It's merely newspeak for crimethink. Ah Ha! That's what you *want* us to think! :-) I sort of agree, in that I wouldn't dismiss something just because others described it as a conspiracy theory. Your list of military and corporate misadventures evidences that. However, when I use the term 'conspiracy theory' it tends to be aimed more towards those positions that start from a pre-supposed conspiracy and work downwards, fitting in evidence to suit as they go. Looking at evidence and building a pattern from that - that's just working things out. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Taomeow Posted August 14, 2020 2 hours ago, RobB said: Ah Ha! That's what you *want* us to think! :-) I sort of agree, in that I wouldn't dismiss something just because others described it as a conspiracy theory. Your list of military and corporate misadventures evidences that. However, when I use the term 'conspiracy theory' it tends to be aimed more towards those positions that start from a pre-supposed conspiracy and work downwards, fitting in evidence to suit as they go. Looking at evidence and building a pattern from that - that's just working things out. There's deduction and there's induction. Both methods have their place when someone is trying to sort things out. If you have an abundance of evidence but no theory to account for it, you use deduction, i.e. you infer your theory from your evidence. If, on the other hand, you have a theory, but no evidence, you might start looking for evidence -- you use induction. Nothing is necessarily wrong with that -- in fact, many sciences work like that, a theory is proposed and then evidence is collected to prove or disprove it. E.g. a boson is theorized and then a particle collider is built to collect evidence of its existence (or nonexistence). The fallacy would only be committed if you cherry-pick your collected evidence toward corroborating your theory and discard whatever evidence contradicts it. This, indeed, is done very often -- every day in every way -- but not by "conspiracy theorists" exclusively or even predominantly. 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
zerostao Posted August 16, 2020 On 8/14/2020 at 1:54 PM, Taomeow said: My point is, I'm trying to convince some of you to get out of the bad company. To stop mistaking your use of the term "conspiracy theory" for a badge of respectability worn by those superior intellects that "don't believe in conspiracy theories." It isn't. It's merely newspeak for crimethink. I.e. a term whose function is to simplify a complex phenomenon to a label that is dispensed toward reward or punishment of particular behaviors. Like "doubleplusungood," this one is utilized as a selection marker toward punishment for crimethink. I would avoid. Excellent post by the way, taomeow. I isolated this section, becoz, my attitude differs from yours. Your's is a noble just attitude. Mine, because there is no was; I ain't trying to convince anyone of anything. I don't give two hoots to a barn owl if bums think I'm some codger sipping shine. Maybe I am. I wasted a lot of time and trouble before I learned that the best way to take all people, is to take them for what they think they are, then leave them alone. Let em all think what they want to think. Soon enough they all gonna be thinking differently, but that's none of my bizness. 3 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Taomeow Posted August 16, 2020 1 hour ago, zerostao said: Excellent post by the way, taomeow. I isolated this section, becoz, my attitude differs from yours. Your's is a noble just attitude. Mine, because there is no was; I ain't trying to convince anyone of anything. I don't give two hoots to a barn owl if bums think I'm some codger sipping shine. Maybe I am. I wasted a lot of time and trouble before I learned that the best way to take all people, is to take them for what they think they are, then leave them alone. Let em all think what they want to think. Soon enough they all gonna be thinking differently, but that's none of my bizness. Thank you. I'm mostly done too, and have zero desire (though not zerostao level zero yet ) to even try to convince anyone of anything if I happen to think they're too far gone. Only when there's a glimmer of hope, when I care, when I despair watching good people get sucked into bad causes, I might try something. Less and less though. Soon to reach absolute zero I'm sure. 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
