waterdrop

Is there a point in celibacy if you dont transmute the enregy ?

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12 minutes ago, dmattwads said:

Probably the simplest way to transmute Jing to qi is to work out your legs hard. If you do so the legs will use a lot of the qi in the leg channels and will have to transmute Jing reserves to replace the qi. Wei Dan is always simpler for a beginner.

fascinating angle.  I've never heard about in the years and dozen plus threads.   

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Posted (edited)
28 minutes ago, dmattwads said:

Probably the simplest way to transmute Jing to qi is to work out your legs hard. If you do so the legs will use a lot of the qi in the leg channels and will have to transmute Jing reserves to replace the qi. Wei Dan is always simpler for a beginner.


that is written in a very clear and nice way actually liked that reply a lot

is that a good thing  that the jing  transmutes to qi  ?            

i thought the energy we dont "waste" in ejaculation is jing ,  right ?

if we work out arms for example it also trasnumtes jing to qi ?

what does this mean about bodybuilders or soccer players etc ?



 

Edited by waterdrop
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8 minutes ago, waterdrop said:

C T For me its really trying to understand the theory behind it -  the how much its important exactly  - for a few reasons  one is for  example when i will read one of the many posts who say it matters a lot or that it doesnt and you can ejaculate 3 times a day  every single day  -  or for example in food how important it is to have good food and what exatctly it is 

cause for example someone can write  something like how celibacy doesnt matter than go on to write about how good it is to get more energy  or someone saying food doesnt really matter  but dont eat doritos and dont eat microwaved foods  ........  so me learning more about theory knowledge  (while trying as always to get the harder experience knowledge)  lets me be more knowing in how to judge new information  ....  and also it helps me reach desicions in life  :     for example  should i pay extra money to buy organic vegetbales ?        is  the microwaved vegetbales worth cooking over the stove or just have an easier way and cook them in the microwave ?   is microwaved food that bad that vegetables in the microwave are worse than bread in the oven or fried chips or snacks from the store that were cooked in an oven ?       is masturbating once a week the best ?  once in two weeks ?  maybe no restrictions at all is best so when you feel like it do it 10 times a day ?  will it help my practice  a lot ?  will it help it a little bit ?  is it haremful ?         etc etc

of course i guess in some years after practice i will get all answers  but the info can make my life better by having better decisions  (like maybe not cooking with a microwave at all - or just to minimize its use - or not masturbating more than 2 times a week etc etc)

 

I understand your concerns, that's why I presented you with an alternative route towards getting what you want. Your present agenda works too, but at the moment, it sounds like an uphill struggle, what with so many considerations running thru your mind. This in itself is detrimental to spiritual cultivation. Too much focus presently on methods and perimeters which you think (assume) will get you results. They won't, unfortunately. Now is the time to let your thoughts settle, relax your mind, train your concentration, study the theories of what you feel you want to practice, get into your hobby or hobbies if you have any, and basically learn to  R E L A X. This is so important for you at this time - its what I picked up from your posts here and elsewhere. Expand your sense and feeling of spaciousness first, then gradually permit the methods to enter this space, Not the other way around. 

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14 minutes ago, thelerner said:

fascinating angle.  I've never heard about in the years and dozen plus threads.   

 

I'm a licensed acupuncturist. Most of my professors were fresh off the boat from China. ‚ėļÔłŹ

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2 minutes ago, waterdrop said:

is that a good thing  that the jing  transmutes to qi  ?            

 

Is it good when ice melts into water?

 

4 minutes ago, waterdrop said:

 i thought the energy we dont "waste" in ejaculation is jing ,  right ?

 

No. Jing is what is used to make semen.

 

5 minutes ago, waterdrop said:

if we work out arms for example it also trasnumtes jing to qi ?

what does this mean about bodybuilders or soccer players etc ?

 

The yang and yin heel vessel extra meridian run through the legs and they are the vessels that preform this conversation.

 Yes athletes convert Jing to qi all the time.

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Posted (edited)

C T   i am not as stressed as it might seem from my posts here   -  for example i eat junk food and microwaved food still even though i read some posts its not that great  - but for example after reading some posts on how people feel stronlgy about it than i lowered my use of the microwave   i do think more understanding will not only help me imrpove my practice and tweak it in certain areas but will also help me relax and not the opposite 

Edited by waterdrop
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16 minutes ago, waterdrop said:

C T   i am not as stressed as it might seem from my posts here 

Good, in my book, life's a journey to do better. 

Being too perfect right off the bat is boring..

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Im always confused about the qi - jing  thing        ............   from some explnations i get its better to convert jing to qi    and from others as if its better to convert qi to jing     (as in we get qi through eating good food than we convert it to jing - and when someone ejaculates he loses jing and not qi)       -   not sure what is considered more "refined"  more "spiritual"   ...   when people in daoism talk about celibacy  for example  they talk about it mainly as i understand as not to lose some kind of energy  and they talk about getting energy from food  and they talk about converting energy  ... so i wondered which energy to which

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Posted (edited)
14 minutes ago, waterdrop said:



Im always confused about the qi - jing  thing        ............   from some explnations i get its better to convert jing to qi    and from others as if its better to convert qi to jing     (as in we get qi through eating good food than we convert it to jing - and when someone ejaculates he loses jing and not qi)       -   not sure what is considered more "refined"  more "spiritual"   ...   when people in daoism talk about celibacy  for example  they talk about it mainly as i understand as not to lose some kind of energy  and they talk about getting energy from food  and they talk about converting energy  ... so i wondered which energy to which

 

It depends on your goal.

 

Think of Jing as ice, qi as water, and Shen as stream. None is better than the other, just different. You would want to use each depending on what you want to accomplish.

 

Generally the idea is to preserve Jing as the pre-natal Jing can't be replaced. Pre-natal Jing is thought to be related to life span and genetic traits. 

 

Qi is your energy and is more refined and subtle than Jing. Ideally you want to get your qi from your food and air. 

 

Edited by dmattwads

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This would be great if i somehow understand this - cause im trying to get this since i joined this forum

Lets say my goal at the moment is that  want to be able to feel qi better  - which will motivate me to practice qigong more and meditate more    .....  so according to that goal which wan do i want to get more of especially ?

(also i practice reality transurfing where it talks about "energy"  which has effect on reality creating and intention ...  wish i knew what the authour of that book/practice  is talking about  ... is it jing ? qi ? post pre natal ?  etc)

when someone ejaculates  - does he lose jing ?      by youre reply above i will assume that  the body creates semsen from jing - right ?  ... and than the prenatal jing turns into regualr jing ?  cause i read in mayb places as if you lose pre natal jing when ejaculating ?



 

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Posted (edited)
18 minutes ago, waterdrop said:

Lets say my goal at the moment is that  want to be able to feel qi better  - which will motivate me to practice qigong more and meditate more    .....  so according to that goal which wan do i want to get more of especially ?

 

I'm sure there is more than one approach, but what did it for me at first was lower Dan Tien reverse abdominal breathing and then micro cosmic obit. I personally found the more still the body is the easier to feel subtle things.

 

18 minutes ago, waterdrop said:

(also i practice reality transurfing where it talks about "energy"  which has effect on reality creating and intention ...  wish i knew what the authour of that book/practice  is talking about  ... is it jing ? qi ? post pre natal ?  etc)

 

Not exactly sure what you mean. From a Buddhist point of view the only "reality" is what the mind experiences on a subjective level. If you mean affecting what happens to you in general that's your karma. But as far as the energy of intention that would relate to Shen as it's of the mind.

 

18 minutes ago, waterdrop said:

when someone ejaculates  - does he lose jing ?      by youre reply above i will assume that  the body creates semsen from jing - right ?  ... and than the prenatal jing turns into regualr jing ?  cause i read in mayb places as if you lose pre natal jing when ejaculating ?

 

When someone ejaculates they lose semen. The body uses Jing to make semen as well as all substantive things like blood, other body fluids and tissues. So the more semen one uses the more Jing the body uses to make more.

Edited by dmattwads
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Posted (edited)

You know, you can't actually engineer the shifts that take place as you cultivate.  

 

They just happen with correct and diligent practice.  

 

One day, you might notice the qi after a vital and whole food meal absorbs into the body and makes you feel quite nice.  The hot pockets give you a near instant hangover.  There is no force in this realization and no law written in stone concerning how you eat afterwords.  Yet over time, with correct and diligent practice, Shift happens.  You will just find yourself reaching for the whole nutritious foods because you are in tune.  

 

With sexual thinking/activity it's similar.

 

Pay attention next time you first catch yourself having a sexual thought.  Feel what happens in your body.  Slight tingle in the groin, slight adjustment in the breathing, etc.

This is like you just scrambled an egg.  The hormones were released and their down the line effects (ending in sexual release) all got energized and primed.  

This is why people say celibacy ACTUALLY starts in the mind. 

If you've already scrambled the eggs (sexual thinking and the following hormonal chain of events) and you try to stop the process (forced semen retention through unnatural physical processes or willpower) you're -very frankly- doing it wrong and are likely to end up injuring yourself.  

Though with correct and diligent practice over time you'll notice those hormonal shifts don't happen on autopilot in the same way they used to,  You don't indulge thought patterns and lifestyles that exacerbate sexual desires, and you come into harmony with what is actually a healthy and natural bodily function vs a societally exploited hormonal mechanism.

 

 

I hope you find a teacher you can trust and blessings on your path!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited by qofq
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There is a point because you build up so much energy, desire and horniness.

 

Combine that with Tai Chi and qigong, training your leg muscles hard, train till your legs are just screaming, and you'll just become a walking boner. Just loaded with testosterone. Girls won't be thinking "is this guy even a man, does he even have a dick?" They'll be thinking holy shit he's "that guy", he is IS a walking dick, woohoo I'm getting dick toniiiiight!

 

So when you do pull a girl, if you've been celibate for weeks or months it'll be so amazing for you when you do bang the next girl.

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 qofq  thanks i have a teacher which i trust - hes just very zen and dosnt reply to all my questions plus i dont want to re ask him questions   -  but he did say   celibacy is a benifical thing energy wise and to the practice -  and he does talk about having energy that helps you do more actions  and in my sepsfic case  to meditate more   ....   that is *probably* the main reason i am trying to figure this  subject  (he is aware to some extent i look for answers in other sources) 

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6 minutes ago, Immortal4life said:

There is a point because you build up so much energy, desire and horniness.

 

Combine that with Tai Chi and qigong, training your leg muscles hard, train till your legs are just screaming, and you'll just become a walking boner. Just loaded with testosterone. Girls won't be thinking "is this guy even a man, does he even have a dick?" They'll be thinking holy shit he's "that guy", he is IS a walking dick, woohoo I'm getting dick toniiiiight!

 

So when you do pull a girl, if you've been celibate for weeks or months it'll be so amazing for you when you do bang the next girl.

 

16 minutes ago, Immortal4life said:

There is a point because you build up so much energy, desire and horniness.

 

Combine that with Tai Chi and qigong, training your leg muscles hard, train till your legs are just screaming, and you'll just become a walking boner. Just loaded with testosterone. Girls won't be thinking "is this guy even a man, does he even have a dick?" They'll be thinking holy shit he's "that guy", he is IS a walking dick, woohoo I'm getting dick toniiiiight!

 

So when you do pull a girl, if you've been celibate for weeks or months it'll be so amazing for you when you do bang the next girl.

 

I am trying to figure out if this is sarcasm or anecdotal experience.

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The one-stroke, thorough  solution to all  jing-related troubles is  the attainment of an  emptied Mind, which can be nourished from the  jing => qi => shen  process ; all other ways are trivial and unlikely to succeed .

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What would the world do without one liners, huh

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Posted (edited)

In a letter to philosopher John Locke, Sir Isaac Newton wrote, "The way to chastity is not to struggle with incontinent thoughts, but to avert the thoughts by some employment, or by reading, or by meditating on other things." 

 

Freud held the belief that sublimation of the libido can lead to greater mental and physical pliancy. 

 

Other luminaries who placed importance on transcending base desires into creative impulses: 

Mahatma Gandhi ‚ąě Nikola Tesla ‚ąě Michaelangelo ‚ąě Pythagoras ‚ąě Plato ‚ąě Socrates ‚ąě¬†

 

 

The desire for sexual expression is inborn and natural. The desire cannot and should not be submerged or eliminated. But it should not be allowed to dominate or dictate one’s behaviour. ~ Napoleon Hill 

Edited by C T

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It's best to use celibacy in a retreat setting. Basically in a setting where the majority of your day you spend in complete stillness. Living a normal life and being celibate can cause serious problems - especially if combined with certain contrived qigong exercises.

 

'Transmuting' jing from a cultivation perspective (not chinese medicine) is not a simple matter. Strengthening the legs certainly doesn't start the Jing to Qi to Shen conversion process... it just uses the jing to build muscle.

 

For your purposes, it's best to just be moderate in your sexual expression. Not too much not too little.

 

When on retreat, then you can certainly revert to celibacy.

 

Although you have a meditation teacher, I'd suggest finding a qigong teacher - or at least a proper 'system' that has a step by step process. Trying to work things out on your own, and combine things in ways you think might be helpful will not only be useless but can be damaging in the long run.

 

Qigong or neigong, as part of a full system, are absolutely the best way to help improve the quality of your meditation. But you need a proper system with a step by step approach - building the foundation -> starting with the basics -> higher aspects. It's not easy. This stuff works over time - rather than in a single instance... just because you've practised circulating your microcosmic orbit once or twice or even a hundred times, doesn't mean you've actually achieved that. Qigong takes time, patience and consistent effort to create transformation.

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Never circulated the microcosmic orbit once  , at least not knowingly  - i practiced zhineneg qigong  did a three month retreat of it but they dont talk about the microcosmic orbit there  - they mentioned it once just to say they dont focus on it lol

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27 minutes ago, waterdrop said:

Never circulated the microcosmic orbit once  , at least not knowingly  - i practiced zhineneg qigong  did a three month retreat of it but they dont talk about the microcosmic orbit there  - they mentioned it once just to say they dont focus on it lol

 

Well done for doing a whole 3-month retreat! And it's good advice not to focus on MCO. I'm only vaguely familiar with Zhineng Qigong so can't comment on it. But I'm suggesting following a more 'complete' path - rather than just a single style of qigong.

 

By far the best system I've come across that's available to the public is Damo Mitchell's. He has a big school with several teachers, and an online class as well. That would be my recommendation.

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Posted (edited)

Actually if you use mindfulness to break down sexuality or anything for that matter then sexuality as an entity doesn't even exist.

 We have the six sense bases, seeing, hearing, smelling, tasting, feeling, and mind, and our attachment to experiencing contact through those senses.

 If you look at the six sense bases there is no sexuality. There's tactile feeling and the mind's craving and clinging to tactile experiences. There's seeing and the mind's craving for and clinging to visual experiences. There's thought and the mind and the minds craving for and clinging to conceptual experience, such as this experience is good, this experience is me, this experience is mine.

 So to say celibacy is good or celibacy is bad or having sex is good or having sex is bad is not understanding the nature of experience, the nature of craving, and the nature of clinging.

 Is celibacy good? If the person practicing it is primarily only experiencing suffering due to craving then there is suffering and conventionally that is considered bad.

 Is celibacy good? If the person practicing it is using it as an opportunity to be mindful of craving and clinging to sensual experience and thereby gains insight into one's craving that leads to suffering and transcends it and is freed from suffering then conventionally that is considered good.

 Celibacy in and of itself is neither good nor bad. Sex in and of itself is neither good nor bad. Ultimately there's just experience and the subjective quality about experience being pleasant or painful.

Edited by dmattwads

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@waterdrop chiming in here in regards to MCO and Zhineng qi gong. Zhineng qigong doesn't have exercises that "circulate" energy through the orbit but rather has practices that focus on opening certain points along the orbit so that chi will flow through the orbit naturally - starting from the top of the head and moving down the orbit with the hui yin closed. I believe they call this "13 Gates Breathing" exercises but it is not taught as a primary method in ZNQG... more of a supplemental practice and usually later in a curriculum. If all of these "gates" are open/flowing with qi, the MCO will flow on its own. 

 

One reason for this may be that ZNQG is intentionally designed so as to not provoke any "qi deviations" - basically it tries to avoid forcing qi into areas that are already blocked up. The concept is more that if you open the central channels and fill the lower dantain, the rest will open on it's own. A seemingly more passive approach but in my experience still incredibly powerful. In the west especially with regards to sexual energy, it seems the focus is on the concepts introduced by Mantak Chia which are comparatively much more aggressive and forceful than ZNQG, however many schools of qi gong suggest that if the lower dantien is full, the MCO will circulate on its own. 

 

In terms of circulating energy sexual energy with out engaging with Microcosmic Orbit practices, you could try the ZNQG methods of wall squats and hip circles - basically any practice that focuses on opening the mingmen and tonifying the Kidneys. Luke Chan has some great videos on these practices which I'll share below. 

 

 

 

 

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26 minutes ago, dlc123 said:

basically any practice that focuses on opening the mingmen and tonifying the Kidneys


why exactly that would help with consuming the sexual energy ?

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