waterdrop

Is there a point in celibacy if you dont transmute the enregy ?

Recommended Posts

IS there a point to celibacy (no sex , no masturbation)   if you dont transmute the energy ?    

If i still get wet dreams and i dont know how to convert the sexual energy   - does it mean there is no point no spiritual benefit to celibacy  ?   

That is what i understood from other posts i have seen in this forum  - does anyone disagrees with this (which i hope someone does) ?

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, waterdrop said:

IS there a point to celibacy (no sex , no masturbation)   if you dont transmute the energy ?    

If i still get wet dreams and i dont know how to convert the sexual energy   - does it mean there is no point no spiritual benefit to celibacy  ?   

That is what i understood from other posts i have seen in this forum  - does anyone disagrees with this (which i hope someone does) ?

 

From a Buddhist point of view, yes there is a point. When one does not indulge in cravings it gives one an opportunity to be mindful of them.

  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Great reply  - good point  actually cause it is a spiritual point of view and forogot about it

but from an energy point of view i understand there is no benifit ? 

cause for example i got a reply that if i am celibate and my energy raises more than normal level  it wont magically convert to a higher spiritual energy if i dont "transmute" it somehow    - and i will just lose it in wet dreams   or even worse as some comments i seen i can cause damage to myself 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)
6 minutes ago, waterdrop said:

Great reply  - good point  actually cause it is a spiritual point of view and forogot about it

but from an energy point of view i understand there is no benifit ? 

cause for example i got a reply that if i am celibate and my energy raises more than normal level  it wont magically convert to a higher spiritual energy if i dont "transmute" it somehow    - and i will just lose it in wet dreams   or even worse as some comments i seen i can cause damage to myself 

 

You'll use slightly jing, so there's the conservation aspect.

 

You can also transmute it if you're concerned about that.

Edited by dmattwads

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
14 minutes ago, waterdrop said:

IS there a point to celibacy (no sex , no masturbation)   if you dont transmute the energy ?    

If i still get wet dreams and i dont know how to convert the sexual energy   - does it mean there is no point no spiritual benefit to celibacy  ?   

That is what i understood from other posts i have seen in this forum  - does anyone disagrees with this (which i hope someone does) ?

 

Celibacy is only for specific periods of time when undergoing specific training. Otherwise just best to be moderate in your sexual activity.

 

Celibacy without the proper training can result in issues down the line.

 

Indulging in cravings is a mental thing first... unless you've cut off all attachment to sex and sexual relations, then there are cravings that are being denied. This is more damaging than just moderate sexual activity.

 

Hope that helps.

  • Like 4
  • Thanks 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Didnt want to push you to an answer ...  but if you did already would love to hear it 

cause being celibate is not really hard for me  -  but every time i have a tiny tiny bit of hardship i just remember all the posts i read that it really doesnt make any difference unless you transmute it or even posts that say it can be harmful so i stop it

" You'll use slightly jing "

you mean i wont use as much in wet dreams  - that was what you tries to say ?

" You can also transmute it if you're concerned about that. "

im not sure i can do it  -  when someone tried to explain it seemed complicated and hard to do   -  also  you say if im concerned about it ... isnt it a big deal to transmute that energy ? 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)

Freeform  it helps cause i like your replies  and i want to hear all views including the usual that say its not beneficial

Edited by waterdrop

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, waterdrop said:


" You'll use slightly jing "

you mean i wont use as much in wet dreams  - that was what you tries to say ?

 

Correct.

 

1 minute ago, waterdrop said:

" You can also transmute it if you're concerned about that. "

im not sure i can do it  -  when someone tried to explain it seemed complicated and hard to do   -  also  you say if im concerned about it ... isnt it a big deal to transmute that energy ? 

 

I'm sure there's many ways to do this but the simplest that I know of is simply to meditate.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)

and if i meditate and still have wet dreams ?  meaning i dont meditate enough ? 

at the moment i still medtiate around 5 - 20 minutes a day   so maybe that is not enough  --   i was in a qigong course  and still had wet dreams though  -   i practiced  at least  around   3 hours of qigong a day  (At least)  and still had wet dreams  and actually got more often - at start i had once in two weeks and in end of course i had once a week

though i did though vipassana retreats and i dont think i had a wet dream there

Edited by waterdrop

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'll also add to what freeform said above, that nocturnal emissions are usually a sign of weak kidneys. It may be a good idea for you to consult with a TCM or Ayurvedic specialist and seek out remedies to help.

 

In my understanding, cutting off the mental root is the most important part since leakage happens mentally first with draining the jing, the physical action then just seals this loss. I can definitely attest to this from personal experience. 

 

So I'd argue that it is better to work on one's mind and desires by gradually learning to let go; do proper meditation/qigong/neigong training or whatever your lineage/system prescribes for you, and then engage in a moderate sex life with a loving partner. 

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)
6 minutes ago, waterdrop said:

and if i meditate and still have wet dreams ?  meaning i dont meditate enough ? 

 

No.

 

A wet dream is just a wet dream it's neither good nor bad therefore not a problem. That's only a problem if you decide it is a problem.

 

The most common reason for wet dreams is yin deficiency empty heat. It means the yin to yang ratio has become yang excessive, and yin is relatively deficient. 

 

It doesn't mean you're not meditating enough. It's just something you have to be patient with. The longer you meditate over time you will begin to still your mind more and it is a still mind that causes the transmutation. Stressing about transmuting sexual energy agitates the mind and therefore is counterproductive. So the best thing you can do is to simply meditate and not worry about if wet dreams happen or not and in time transmutation will increase in quantity and quality.

Edited by dmattwads
  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)

Alright  - so by that comment i do get that celibacy has a benefit   a great benefit at that too , that it does have a point  - not just the spiritual one but an energetic one

Edited by waterdrop

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, waterdrop said:

Alright  - so by that comment i do get that celibacy has a benefit   a great benefit at that too

 

It can, but if it destroys your peace of mind because you're not ready for it then that's actually the opposite of beneficial.

  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Quote

It can, but if it destroys your peace of mind because you're not ready for it then that's actually the opposite of beneficial.



Ok  I get that   -  its a good point which i think i semi understand by experience  - its good you say it  and i will take that into account  -  but to be honest i think me wanting to do it but not sure if it has a small benefit even with wet dreams or not is more haremful to peace of mind

Would you say celibacy can have benefit even to someone who is not that advanced  and someone who lets say never passes the one hour of meditation a day    -  or that its beneficial just in a retreat setting ?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, waterdrop said:



Ok  I get that   -  its a good point which i think i semi understand by experience  - its good you say it  and i will take that into account  -  but to be honest i think me wanting to do it but not sure if it has a small benefit even with wet dreams or not is more haremful to peace of mind

Would you say celibacy can have benefit even to someone who is not that advanced  and someone who lets say never passes the one hour of meditation a day    -  or that its beneficial just in a retreat setting ?

 

To that person I would ask what would be the reason in doing it?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)
Just now, waterdrop said:

to get more energy for example to do stuff  by not wasting energy in ejaculation    ,     to feel qi better in body , to be healthier ,     to reach enlightenment


to get more energy for example to do stuff  by not wasting energy in ejaculation    ,     to feel qi better in body , to be healthier ,     to reach enlightenment

Edited by waterdrop

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, waterdrop said:


to get more energy for example to do stuff  by not wasting energy in ejaculation    ,     to feel qi better in body , to be healthier ,     to reach enlightenment

 

For those goals I'd tend to say yes.

 

As to the last one regarding enlightenment though, celibacy in and of itself won't make one enlightened. Gaining understanding of the four Noble truths will lead to enlightenment and celibacy can help one to understand the second Noble truth.

 

On the other hand if celibacy leads to a great deal of stress, frustration, and guilt it will accomplish the exact opposed of all the stated goals listed.

 

 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)

Yeah  - i added the last one just cause im not too much knowledgeable in daoism  (as of yet)  and the whole energy thing  (Still cant feel qi)       the path to enlightnemnt is pretty clear to me in buddhism which i follow    (to me its to be present and accepting of the moment  )  but i understand from reading stuff here it can be an energetic thing  - and that for example  we have blockages in body  in meridians extra and clearing them  clears bad karama and can change your behavior as well etc etc       ...  and for that having more energy in the body can help  -   and also that it makes the meditations more effective etc  

If it was just for the second noble truth  .........  than i (as most people i think)   have a ton of attachments to work on other than sexuality  - so if that was just that i wouldnt care about this issue enough to try it   -   sexual desire defintly lowers when i meditate a lot even without caring about it but other issues stay  so at least for me its not that big of a deal ( def exists and a big issue just not as much as other stuff)

........   i started qigong at first place cause of a way to get more energy  so i can practice more meditation  ... and i did read that masterbation is very draining on that energy  ....  so i thought "great so i will stop it"  ...  (  NOT CAUSE I THINK IT WILL REMOVE SEXUAL THOUGHTS   )   but than everytime i do it i than read a post saying its either doesnt matter  or only matters if your advanced or can cause harm   - so i stop being celibate 

 

Edited by waterdrop

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 minutes ago, waterdrop said:

Yeah  - i added the last one just cause im not too much knowledgeable in daoism  (as of yet)  and the whole energy thing  (Still cant feel qi)       the path to enlightnemnt is pretty clear to me in buddhism which i follow    (to me its to be present and accepting of the moment  )  but i understand from reading stuff here it can be an energetic thing  - and that for example  we have blockages in body  in meridians extra and clearing them  clears bad karama and can change your behavior as well etc etc       ...  and for that having more energy in the body can help  -   and also that it makes the meditations more effective etc  

........   i started qigong at first place cause of a way to get more energy  so i can practice more meditation  ... and i did read that masterbation is very draining on that energy  ....  so i thought "great so i will stop it"  ...  (  NOT CAUSE I THINK IT WILL REMOVE SEXUAL THOUGHTS   )   but than everytime i do it i than read a post saying its either doesnt matter  or only matters if your advanced or can cause harm   - so i stop being celibate

 

So as to this topic there are several and various views and approaches. 

 

Some as you listed say that one works on the energy and that facilitates the process of Awakening.

 

Others (and this tends to be the Buddhist approach in general) say to focus on the mind and the energy takes care of itself as a result.

 

Personally I find Qigong helpful because it helps me to sit in meditation for longer periods without discomfort. I find celibacy can be useful to facilitate mindfulness on craving.

 

Can focusing on one's energy and channels as a primary approach lead to Awakening? I don't know personally. Apparently the Buddha didn't think so. Is the Buddha path the only right one? He thought so. Is he right? I don't know.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

well i dont know but i go by the mind path cause that is what i know  (i started getting into qigong just a year ago and buddhism maybe 10 or more)  

The main reason  at first was to get more energy to meditate  -  as in the outlook that qi in disposel somehow equates to intention power

and now i added to that that maybe celibacy will strengthen my ability to move qi  ...  ( and maybe also to be more healthy  -  and also to add spiritually maybe as well by clearing blockages)

there are even some tiny not spiritual benefits to not masturbating for example (sex is more complicated to say pros and cons too )   like saving a bit of time for example  - but the not spiritual disadvantages of wet dreams like the need to clean the sheets overrides it

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, waterdrop said:


there are even some tiny not spiritual benefits to not masturbating for example (sex is more complicated to say pros and cons too )   like saving a bit of time for example  - but the not spiritual disadvantages of wet dreams like the need to clean the sheets overrides it

 

Many boxers tend to avoid sex before a fight because "it makes the legs weak". This is an interesting observation because in "Xi Sui Jing" (marrow/brain washing) Qigong celibacy is vital as to not drain the channels in the legs.

 

Of course as hard as boxers train before a fight their bodies are automatically converting that saved Jing into qi.

 

So yes there are non-spiritual benefits.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)

Yes  i dont care about the no spiritual benefits that much though  -  i gave it as an example just to show how i want to know of existing spiritual benifits

Edited by waterdrop

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

@waterdrop just... relax. Celibacy is no big deal. In my mid 30s I was strictly celibate for 9 years. The timing was right, things fell into place, and conditions for practice was quite ideal. And I had (still have at 60) a pretty healthy sex drive. It was something I wanted to do as a challenge to prove something to myself, although the initial plan wasn't for that length of time. It was rough for the first 3 months, and thereafter it just got 'normal'. In every way. Some of what people say about the benefits and all that is just hype. Yes, you will experience heightened awareness of marked increases in energy and creativity, which I channelled into my work and also into altruistic activities where I got to share my professional and hobby skills with kids, and also did voluntary work on a regular basis. Nothing fancy - just helping out at charity events and fund raisers and stuff. Being celibate and altruistic made the journey extra meaningful and satisfying. Such involvements got me out of my own head by shifting the focus towards using what I had to benefit others. This is the method I found useful as a tool for transmuting the urge and base desires into something meaningful and worthwhile. Instead of thinking of my needs and physical cravings, the attention was channelled towards caring for the needs of others. This is way more rewarding than mere retention of essence with no real purpose other than meeting one's own selfish needs. Having such a mindset only compounds the anxiety and frustration of no release, and they tend to feed off each other and makes the effort doubly painful and hard. 

 

Take the middle path. Not too loose, and not too tight, just like how a guitar is strung and sweet notes are made. But if you seriously want to practise celibacy, then expand your activity to include something that is much bigger than your 'self', and devote lots of energy to that. Get involved in projects where people can look at you with a smile on their faces, give you hugs, and express genuine gratitude for your contribution. This is way way more powerful and satisfying than anything you'll ever experience. Each time someone comes up to you, looks you in the eye and goes, "Thank you soo much, that was wonderfully kind of you", thats an enlightening moment right there. Isn't this potentially much healthier and happier than sitting in your room with a sac full of jing and not knowing what the hell to do with it? 

  • Like 6

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Probably the simplest way to transmute Jing to qi is to work out your legs hard. If you do so the legs will use a lot of the qi in the leg channels and will have to transmute Jing reserves to replace the qi. Wei Dan is always simpler for a beginner.

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)

C T For me its really trying to understand the theory behind it -  the how much its important exactly  - for a few reasons  one is for  example when i will read one of the many posts who say it matters a lot or that it doesnt and you can ejaculate 3 times a day  every single day  -  or for example in food how important it is to have good food and what exatctly it is 

cause for example someone can write  something like how celibacy doesnt matter than go on to write about how good it is to get more energy  or someone saying food doesnt really matter  but dont eat doritos and dont eat microwaved foods  ........  so me learning more about theory knowledge  (while trying as always to get the harder experience knowledge)  lets me be more knowing in how to judge new information  ....  and also it helps me reach desicions in life  :     for example  should i pay extra money to buy organic vegetbales ?        is  the microwaved vegetbales worth cooking over the stove or just have an easier way and cook them in the microwave ?   is microwaved food that bad that vegetables in the microwave are worse than bread in the oven or fried chips or snacks from the store that were cooked in an oven ?       is masturbating once a week the best ?  once in two weeks ?  maybe no restrictions at all is best so when you feel like it do it 10 times a day ?  will it help my practice  a lot ?  will it help it a little bit ?  is it haremful ?         etc etc

of course i guess in some years after practice i will get all answers  but the info can make my life better by having better decisions  (like maybe not cooking with a microwave at all - or just to minimize its use - or not masturbating more than 2 times a week etc etc)

Edited by waterdrop

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites