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fyi certain people:  I never said the dems were perfect and didn't make mistakes, imo they made some major ones like NAFTA and in part but not alone in some of the insane and deadly wars or military conflicts we have been involved in ! (resulting in horrible numbers of deaths to civilian's!)  So please quit beating a drum that is not there except in your noble wana-be outrage!

 

and for those who do not see the magnitude of differences and the dire straights we are in with trump and then give some kind of imaginary non-existant equality to both parties by comparing Obama and trump records then you have fallen for trumps and the alt right traps. 

Edited by old3bob
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23 hours ago, Taomeow said:

 

I wonder if anyone remembers something else.  Something that, at the time, made my hair stand on end.  To wit, how the dems accused him of racism and fearmongreing for banning flights from China.  For closing the borders.  For placing the retrieved travelers from abroad in quarantines.  The "hug a Chinese" campaign they initiated.  The shaming of "racists" who made a peep about China being the epicenter of an epidemic that should have concerned anyone who would bother to take a second look at least as much as it bothered me when I did -- in early January.  Beautiful virtue signaling, deadly consequences.  In my family, the Chinese are hugged on a regular basis without admonitions from the left and my son is more likely than not to eventually marry one of them -- whose opinion in January and February was, don't hug a Chinese unless you know for a fact he or she hasn't just arrived from Wuhan.  Which alone sent 5 million travelers far and wide for the Chinese New Year's celebration.  About half a million Chinese traveled to the US before the flights were cancelled.   

 

In the meantime, what the fuck were they talking about when the "it's just a flu" and "stop fearmongering" and "this is racist" and "masks are useless and increase your chance of getting infected" lithany of virtuous voices of which Trump's wasn't one went on and on for the crucial weeks and months when, indeed, the pandemic could have been handled a helluva lot better?  What the fuck were they doing, letting it spread far and wide before making a spectacular U-turn and shifting the blame?  And how come people who can't claim old age or any other cognitive excuse for amnesia don't fucking remember any of it?  How the fuck is it even possible?  They remember each and every one of Trump's outrageously uncouth, callous, stupid, infuriating remarks on each and every subject under the sun -- but they don't remember that campaign conducted by, not Trump but his opponents?  

 

I honestly don't understand how these things work.  I swear.  

 

Oh I understand it all to well.

 

My S.O. Brought this thread to my attention and I must remark this is far more civilized than in the past when these topics have been raised.

 

This whole thing about those identifying as left and those as right has gone way beyond politics. 
 

It has become a religion by which individuals define themselves and thusly reason & logic take a backseat to belief and a framework  that can be used and applied to every aspect of their lives even to the point of being absurd, and ridiculous.

 

Two weeks ago I was driving to work and a pair of good ol boy rednecks were talking outside hanging over the beds of their trucks.

 

One of the trucks had 6 American flags heavily secured, with the face of President Trump  and other slogans. One of the slogans read “ GOD & GUNS!!

 

I thought my God how stupid! 
 

As I drove past the owner of the truck looked at me as I drove by in my Ford Pickup and I saw his face and the violent emotions written large and defiant carrying a huge chip on his shoulder just waiting and eagerly hoping someone will oppose his framework the very context which his life and interaction on this earth is predicated upon.

 

I thought you stupid ass child, you do not even know how badly misplaced your framework is you yell America yet you desecrate the flag! 
 

You glare a challenge to all believing everyone is against Trump and your identity framework.
 

I see so much of this identity none sense this false framework of belief on the right and the left. As for me I stand firmly as an individual not a hive mind, I vote based on a candidates achievements and track record for my country not for personalities nor any framework a group has created by which to live my life.

 

It is shocking to me so many are unable to realize how they are trapping themselves in such frameworks.

 

The right has become a religion and so has the left, their can be no expectation of reason when religion is present only faith and belief matter despite reality being different and even when objectively proven only to be ignored and scorned.

 

Amen

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1 hour ago, thelerner said:

So are you saying people who are against Trump, but not against Trump enough, are the ones with there brains falling out?  They are not one sided enough?  Should they not vote, because they don't meet your conditions of outrage? 

 

This is actually where I am presently (and once again) leaning after this interaction.

 

1 hour ago, thelerner said:

If you want 'horrible, recorded and undeniable  in your face facts' you can get them on Fox or Breibart or Limbaugh.  They've got 100s of pages of statistics and stories of outrage.  Their letter writers love statistics and the raw emotion of calling people monsters.   They spent 4 years calling Obama a megalomaniac mind controller, communist, socialist traitor.  Then he won, then spent another 4 years calling him nasty stuff.  Daily, 1000's of posts. 

 

Did it work on you?  Did you read there 100,000 posts?  Even the ones with statistics, the ones 'proving' what a monster, Obama and his administration was?  If not they're still there.  Read through them, learn.. maybe you'll change your mind?  But I doubt it. 

 

Won't work on you, and you know what, over the top insults, even with statistics, are great for preaching to the choir, but if you're not there then, talk in language they'll keep reading and understand.  From there point of view not your outrage. 


My ex’s brother was one of the vocal anti-Obama individuals, and even knowing I voted for Obama, he was never as rude or insulting to me personally as ralis and 3bob - actually regarding politics no one has ever been as directly and intentionally personally rude to me. 

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22 hours ago, Apech said:

Yes, Nancy Pelosi went to Chinatown and said everyone should hug a Chinese person.   Which is about 3 or 4 dimensions of racist anyway.

 

I can only conclude that there are forces at work which act against an objective or balanced view at the moment.

 

From my 5 minutes of looking- The Hug a Chinese was an Italian thing, not from the US, ie Florence had Hug a Chinese day.  And not from Nancy Pelosi, though Trump tried to paint it that way.  In February 24th she went to San Franciscos large Chinatown and encouraged others to go there, with precautions.  Full story- https://www.factcheck.org/2020/04/trumps-false-claims-about-pelosi-and-chinatown/

 

"The president has raised Pelosi’s visit several times in recent days to counter criticism that he was slow to react to the coronavirus. He repeatedly mentions that he issued travel restrictions on China, which he did on Jan. 31. Meanwhile, he points out, the House speaker was urging people to go to Chinatown.

Trump is mischaracterizing and exaggerating what she said during her visit. And while Trump did issue the travel restrictions, as we have reported, he also downplayed the danger of the virus in a series of remarks and tweets from Jan. 22 to March 10.

The California Democrat’s visit to Chinatown came three weeks before six Bay Area counties implemented shelter-in-place restrictions. On the same day as Pelosi’s visit, Trump tweeted, “The Coronavirus is very much under control in the USA. We are in contact with everyone and all relevant countries. CDC & World Health have been working hard and very smart. Stock Market starting to look very good to me!”

Here’s Trump’s April 16 tweet accusing Pelosi of deleting a video from her Twitter account:.."

 

Its important to look at both sides critically, though Trump does more then his fair share of gaslighting.  While he didn't directly call the Covid a hoax, he implied the Democrats were 'hoaxing' the American public by.. over stating the danger.  That interpretation seems just as dangerous.  Trump's methodology is to imply and leave the rest to the public's imagination. 

 

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Oh my GOD  ! ! !   :o

 

 

...  That post led me to   just contemplate the idea of the egrigore of the  current collective   'public imagination ' in   the  USA .

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

                  donald-trump-ringmaster-cartoon-vector-i            image.png.e137432f0a4c398cd9d47589831e6256.png

 

Edited by Nungali
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it is not virtuous to  be more or less blind to the fact that we do not have the  luxury of playing philosophical or half-baked comparative mind games with or about trump's actions and words.  For he about the wholesale destruction of decent ways and institutions in our country per his obvious lust and megalomania for an iron handed (anti-democracy) dictatorship,  thus we dangerously and distractedly missing the pit before us all, just as he and his ilk would have it.  

Edited by old3bob

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While we don't know exactly what the future will bring, we know how Trump will rule:  Childish insults to those, Democratic and Republican who confound him.  His cabinet is not toady enough.  Barr isn't Locking Them UP, he'll find a sycophant who will.. Jared(kidding, I think).  With less support and a longer enemy list, Trump will be Trump. 

 

Biden will probably overly assume money can solve problems.  His missteps could lead us more easily into recession.   If he gets both houses, he could make substantial improvements or reforms to our health care.  If he takes his lead from Obama, then I don't think I'd complain much.  If he moved too far left, I probably would, though complaint is easy, fixing is hard. 

 

With Trump we're screwed by a self serving impetuous manchild.  With Biden we may be screwed by the man's good intentions, leading us to heck. 

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Often it comes down to the lesser of two evils, one known, one suspected.

I more often than not choose the unknown.

 

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11 minutes ago, old3bob said:

being more or less blind to the fact that we do not have the  luxury of playing philosophical or half-baked comparative mind games with or about trump's actions and words which are leading to the wholesale destruction of decent ways and institutions in our country per his obvious lust and megalomania for an iron handed (anti-democracy) dictatorship is so dangerously and distractedly missing the point, just as he and his ilk would have it.  

We don't have the luxury of dissing people who are against Trump. 

Trump lost the debate big time by being loud, rude, fearmongering and exaggerating.  Biden won the moderates and undecided by (mostly) staying cool and polite. 

Your strategy of going after proBiden people who have less passion then you is a losing hand. 

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3 minutes ago, natural said:

Often it comes down to the lesser of two evils, one known, one suspected.

I more often than not choose the unknown.

 

I also choose the unknown evil,

hoping it'll be more fun.

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11 minutes ago, thelerner said:

While we don't know exactly what the future will bring, we know how Trump will rule:  Childish insults to those, Democratic and Republican who confound him.  His cabinet is not toady enough.  Barr isn't Locking Them UP, he'll find a sycophant who will.. Jared(kidding, I think).  With less support and a longer enemy list, Trump will be Trump. 

 

Biden will probably overly assume money can solve problems.  His missteps could lead us more easily into recession.   If he gets both houses, he could make substantial improvements or reforms to our health care.  If he takes his lead from Obama, then I don't think I'd complain much.  If he moved too far left, I probably would, though complaint is easy, fixing is hard. 

 

With Trump we're screwed by a self serving impetuous manchild.  With Biden we may be screwed by the man's good intentions, leading us to heck. 

 

the US is and has been bankrupt for a very long time along with the rest of the modern or not so modern world...our banks and money institution's hold so much promised paper money in their hands which is all built like a house of cards upon the sand.  When the piper comes calling for payment it will not be the dems or repubs fault...it will be the fault of absolute greed at any and all costs.

Edited by old3bob

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2 minutes ago, thelerner said:

I also choose the unknown evil,

hoping it'll be more fun.

 

Do you mean   more  ' fun '  than  the USA is having now  ?

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4 minutes ago, old3bob said:

 

the US is and has been bankrupt for a very long time along with the rest of the modern or not so modern world...our banks and money institution's hold so much promised paper money in their hands which all built like a house of cards upon the sand.  When the piper comes calling for payment it will not be the dems or repubs fault...it will be the fault of absolute greed at any and all costs.

 

Oh stop complaining !

 

Just think of all this new 'more fun' that awaits  ;

 

 

image.png.9d8fb49eb788a1aba244fc882a712eaf.png

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5 minutes ago, thelerner said:

We have the luxury of dissing people who are against Trump. 

Trump lost the debate big time by being loud, rude, fearmongering and exaggerating.  Biden won the moderates and undecided by (mostly) staying cool and polite. 

Your strategy of going after proBiden people who have less passion then you is a losing hand. 

 

those are kind of strange presumptions to me Lerner,  I'm not crazy about the dems but see a chance for the  survival of the US with them even though they will make some costly mistakes but not nearly as costly as the madman trump would which he has so blatantly proven and demonstrated himself to be capable of!  (thus we really need no talking heads to debate that)

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1 minute ago, Nungali said:

 

Oh stop complaining !

 

Just think of all this new 'more fun' that awaits  ;

 

 

image.png.9d8fb49eb788a1aba244fc882a712eaf.png

 

I'd prefer your field with the friendly cows and green grass...

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1 minute ago, old3bob said:

 

those are kind of strange presumptions to me Lerner,  I'm not crazy about the dems but see a chance for the  survival of the US with them even though they will make some costly mistakes but not nearly as costly as the madman trump would which he has so blatantly proven and demonstrated himself to be capable of!  (thus we really need no talking heads to debate that)

That's what I figure, you're anti-Trump, not crazy about dems.  Most likely to convince people not to vote. 

Whereas I, would prefer people to vote against Trump.

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Just now, thelerner said:

That's what I figure, you're anti-Trump, not crazy about dems.  Most likely to convince people not to vote. 

Whereas I, would prefer people to vote against Trump.

 

what the hell, if I'm talking about the survival of the US how do you come up with the nonsensical statement of me convincing people not to vote, when the opposite is in their interest...

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8 minutes ago, Nungali said:

 

Do you mean   more  ' fun '  than  the USA is having now  ?

I don't think the US is having fun now. 

 

I was thinking of the Sage Mae West who said-

'Between two evils, I always pick the one I never tried before.'

 

Not everything is about politics.

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2 minutes ago, old3bob said:

.. statement of me convincing people not to vote, when the opposite is in their interest...

yes, exactly.  That's what I've been saying ad nauseum.  That's what I think your approach may do.  I've rarely seen preachers on corners preaching imminent doom with megaphones, persuade people. 

I think there's better ways. 

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Just now, thelerner said:

I don't think the US is having fun now. 

 

 then why say what you did ?   MORE  fun   .      Of course that will get a reaction !

 

Just now, thelerner said:

 

I was thinking of the Sage Mae West who said-

'Between two evils, I always pick the one I never tried before.'

 

 

Okay, I suppose you are into experiencing evil then . It also appears 'Trump evil' wasnt enough for you and you want  a different type of evil .

 

Unless this is all joking on your part . I will leave any judgment about joking about this up to your fellow countrymen .

 

Just now, thelerner said:

 

Not everything is about politics.

 

yeah right .... you where right in the middle of a political discussion when you said that  .

 

 

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12 minutes ago, old3bob said:

 

I'd prefer your field with the friendly cows and green grass...

 

Good luck old3bob .... I am just about to permanently back out of this thread ... its getting like the old Trump thread ( that I also ignored ) and that caused so many casualties *  and disruptions .

 

* anyone notice that some  good,  prominent  and intelligent posters are not posting anywhere here any more ?

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5 minutes ago, Nungali said:

 

 then why say what you did ?   MORE  fun   .      Of course that will get a reaction !

 

 

Okay, I suppose you are into experiencing evil then . It also appears 'Trump evil' wasnt enough for you and you want  a different type of evil .

 

Unless this is all joking on your part . I will leave any judgment about joking about this up to your fellow countrymen .

 

 

yeah right .... you where right in the middle of a political discussion when you said that  .

 

 

Get a sense of humor

I'm glad natural, who wrote the intial comment got it, even if you didn't.

 

<its getting to be like the Talk Trump thead, except its OldBob mostly ranting against people who are against Trump. >

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1 hour ago, thelerner said:

From my 5 minutes of looking- The Hug a Chinese was an Italian thing, not from the US, ie Florence had Hug a Chinese day.  And not from Nancy Pelosi, though Trump tried to paint it that way.  In February 24th she went to San Franciscos large Chinatown and encouraged others to go there, with precautions.  Full story- https://www.factcheck.org/2020/04/trumps-false-claims-about-pelosi-and-chinatown/

 

"The president has raised Pelosi’s visit several times in recent days to counter criticism that he was slow to react to the coronavirus. He repeatedly mentions that he issued travel restrictions on China, which he did on Jan. 31. Meanwhile, he points out, the House speaker was urging people to go to Chinatown.

Trump is mischaracterizing and exaggerating what she said during her visit. And while Trump did issue the travel restrictions, as we have reported, he also downplayed the danger of the virus in a series of remarks and tweets from Jan. 22 to March 10.

The California Democrat’s visit to Chinatown came three weeks before six Bay Area counties implemented shelter-in-place restrictions. On the same day as Pelosi’s visit, Trump tweeted, “The Coronavirus is very much under control in the USA. We are in contact with everyone and all relevant countries. CDC & World Health have been working hard and very smart. Stock Market starting to look very good to me!”

Here’s Trump’s April 16 tweet accusing Pelosi of deleting a video from her Twitter account:.."

 

Its important to look at both sides critically, though Trump does more then his fair share of gaslighting.  While he didn't directly call the Covid a hoax, he implied the Democrats were 'hoaxing' the American public by.. over stating the danger.  That interpretation seems just as dangerous.  Trump's methodology is to imply and leave the rest to the public's imagination. 

 

 

 

0:52

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If you think I  (of all people here )    DONT have a sense of humour  ......  jeeze !

 

I just dont have a sense of humour about Trump insanity spreading through your country ... and THAT is an infection that has been happening for some time .

 

Some people cant seem to help catching it !

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18 hours ago, Nungali said:

If you think I  (of all people here )    DONT have a sense of humour  ......  jeeze !

Fine, you have a sense of humor but you didn't get the joke I made.  Again the writer I posted to did.

Quote

 

I just dont have a sense of humour about Trump insanity spreading through your country ... and THAT is an infection that has been happening for some time .

Some people cant seem to help catching it !

After almost 4 years of Trumpian antics, a sense of humor is much needed.  Otherwise, you'd go a little nuts.   Also needed is voting to get him out. 

 

<I'm thinking some yeast and spores I have around may help with that>

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