Recommended Posts

The worst thing about the pandemic, apart from sickness and death, is the way it´s distanced us from each other.  Public health officials tell us to wear masks and stay in our respective corners.  Perhaps naively, I believe their advice is sound policy, the best we can do in this difficult moment to defeat the virus.  And yet my heart goes out to those who refuse to socially distance or mask themselves.  How human!  What a beautiful impulse it is to want to be close to the people we love!  

 

The great divide in society right now is not between Democrat and Republican.  It´s between those who would tear us apart from each other and those who would bring us together.  It´s between ideological rigidity and empathy.  It´s between people who just want to talk and those willing to listen.  

 

Recent public health policy makes literal the social distancing that´s been a less than literal force in our lives for generations now.  Perhaps it´s not possible or wise, right at the moment, for me to stand with you physically, shoulder to shoulder.  But I can stand with you in my heart.  I can recognize the good in you, even if -- especially if -- you disagree with me politically.  The most revolutionary thing I can do is to let you have the last word.

Edited by liminal_luke
  • Like 2
  • Thanks 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

From another source:

 

https://www.dailyherald.com/news/20201007/fact-checking-the-vice-presidential-debate-coronavirus-the-economy-and-more

 

Quote

 

HARRIS on the virus: "The president said it was a hoax."

 

THE FACTS: That's misleading.

 

She's referring to a Feb. 28 campaign rally in South Carolina in which Trump said the phrases "the coronavirus" and "this is their new hoax" at separate points. Although his meaning is difficult to discern, the broader context of his words shows he was railing against Democrats for their denunciations of his administration's coronavirus response.

 

"Now the Democrats are politicizing the coronavirus," he said at the rally. "You know that, right? Coronavirus. They're politicizing it." He meandered briefly to the subject of the messy Democratic primary in Iowa, then the Russia investigation before returning to the pandemic. "They tried the impeachment hoax. ... And this is their new hoax."

 

 

And another:

 

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/elections/2020/10/08/kamala-harris-mike-pence-debate-fact-check-covid-jobs-taxes/5920814002/

 

Quote

Harris said President Donald Trump had called the coronavirus “a hoax.” Trump said he was referring to Democrats finding fault with his administration’s response to the coronavirus, not the virus itself.


And another:

 

https://www.rappler.com/newsbreak/fact-check/kamala-harris-vp-debate-trump-says-coronavirus-hoax

Quote

 

Trump did not call the coronavirus a hoax. He referred to the Democrats’ criticism of the administration as a "hoax," not the coronavirus.

 

Harris was echoing this claim from Democratic presidential bet Joe Biden’s campaign videos released in March and September. The videos spliced clips from the president’s February 28 rally in North Charleston, South Carolina.

The videos were edited to depict Trump saying, "Coronavirus – this is their new hoax," or a similar iteration.

 

The full quote, however, slammed Democrats for politicizing the virus and criticizing the Trump administration: "One of my people came up to me and said, 'Mr. President, they tried to beat you on Russia, Russia, Russia.' That didn’t work out too well. They couldn’t do it. They tried the impeachment hoax. That was not a perfect conversation. They tried anything. They tried it over and over. They’d been doing it since you got in. It’s all turning. They lost. It’s all turning. Think of it. Think of it. And this is their new hoax."

 


Of note:

 

Quote

Other fact-checkers, such as CNN, the Associated Press, and the The Washington Post, have also called out Harris and the Biden campaign for making this misleading claim.

 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
17 minutes ago, manitou said:

 

 

It all makes me want to tear my hair out.  Actually, I was watching the news in February, and I did hear the president directly call it a hoax.  But he was yelling into a mike, and the crowd was yelling too.  Maybe it didn't get picked up by the fact checkers.


Or maybe the raucousness led more easily to you (and others) drawing a false correlation/understanding? 
 

(That sometimes happens to me when people jump on tangents and throw “too much” out there at once, or there is so much emotional content it is hard to follow.)


https://www.cnn.com/2020/09/17/politics/joe-biden-campaign-ad-trump-coronavirus-hoax-fact-check/index.html
 

Quote

 

Taken in totality, Trump's comments at the February 28 rally indicate that he is deriding Democrats for attacking his performance on the coronavirus. A full 56 seconds pass between the two clips the campaign ad edited together. 

In this section of his rally speech, Trump began by saying that "the Democrats are politicizing the coronavirus," ridiculing Democrats for attacking his administration's performance addressing the virus. The President then compared this attack to the investigation into Russian meddling in the 2016 election, and calling his impeachment a "hoax."

 

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Taomeow said:

I wouldn't assign the "Trump supporter" label to everyone aware of the bigger picture.  Tunnel vision is not the answer.  Not even for horses wearing blinkers, let alone for thinking, perceiving humans.  

 

But I would like to find out what exactly you would do if you were handling the pandemic.   Every country in the world was and is outraged by how the pandemic was and is being handled by their respective governments -- with the exception of Sweden which handled it by doing nothing, Japan which handled it by doing next to nothing, and North Korea which no one knows anything about what anyone there thinks who is not Kim Jong Un.  Over 200 other countries are continuously outraged by everything done and everything not done. 

 

How exactly was Trump's handling of it different, and in comparison to what country exactly?  It was, and is, a lose-lose situation for anyone who is subscribed to any view of how it ought to be handled.  That American healthcare system is in an abysmal shape compared to all other "developed" countries and a great number of "developing" ones is a status quo of loooong standing, it didn't start under Trump, it won't end under whoever is "elected."  How does awareness of this situation make someone a "Trump supporter?''  And more importantly -- how would you handle the pandemic, in an exemplary way that Trump failed to implement?  This is genuine curiosity.  I for one know how I would if I was in charge, alas I'm not.  How would you?  ???  

 

you are a smart and interesting person Taomeow,  I agree with some of your points but I also dont' think you have  been living under a rock for the last 4 years and frankly I don't have the time to catch you or anyone else up on what should be obvious about the last four years...(with trump)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
27 minutes ago, ilumairen said:


Or maybe the raucousness led more easily to you (and others) drawing a false correlation/understanding? 
 

(That sometimes happens to me when people jump on tangents and throw “too much” out there at once, or there is so much emotional content it is hard to follow.)


https://www.cnn.com/2020/09/17/politics/joe-biden-campaign-ad-trump-coronavirus-hoax-fact-check/index.html
 

 

 

oh b.s.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, old3bob said:

oh b.s.


Did you notice the number (and diversity) of fact check sources?
 

The ad did splice footage, and the context of the original statements is recorded and easily found through multiple sources.

 

  • Like 1
  • Thanks 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
50 minutes ago, liminal_luke said:

The worst thing about the pandemic, apart from sickness and death, is the way it´s distanced us from each other.  Public health officials tell us to wear masks and stay in our respective corners.  Perhaps naively, I believe their advice is sound policy, the best we can do in this difficult moment to defeat the virus.  And yet my heart goes out to those who refuse to socially distance or mask themselves.  How human!  What a beautiful impulse it is to want to be close to the people we love!  

 

The great divide in society right now is not between Democrat and Republican.  It´s between those who would tear us apart from each other and those who would bring us together.  It´s between ideological rigidity and empathy.  It´s between people who just want to talk and those willing to listen.  

 

Recent public health policy makes literal the social distancing that´s been a less than literal force in our lives for generations now.  Perhaps it´s not possible or wise, right at the moment, for me to stand with you physically, shoulder to shoulder.  But I can stand with you in my heart.  I can recognize the good in you, even if -- especially if -- you disagree with me politically.  The most revolutionary thing I can do is to let you have the last word.

 

 

I have never felt closer to you Luke :)

  • Thanks 1
  • Haha 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
57 minutes ago, manitou said:

 

 

It all makes me want to tear my hair out.  Actually, I was watching the news in February, and I did hear the president directly call it a hoax.  But he was yelling into a mike, and the crowd was yelling too.  Maybe it didn't get picked up by the fact checkers.

 

 

 

I wonder if anyone remembers something else.  Something that, at the time, made my hair stand on end.  To wit, how the dems accused him of racism and fearmongreing for banning flights from China.  For closing the borders.  For placing the retrieved travelers from abroad in quarantines.  The "hug a Chinese" campaign they initiated.  The shaming of "racists" who made a peep about China being the epicenter of an epidemic that should have concerned anyone who would bother to take a second look at least as much as it bothered me when I did -- in early January.  Beautiful virtue signaling, deadly consequences.  In my family, the Chinese are hugged on a regular basis without admonitions from the left and my son is more likely than not to eventually marry one of them -- whose opinion in January and February was, don't hug a Chinese unless you know for a fact he or she hasn't just arrived from Wuhan.  Which alone sent 5 million travelers far and wide for the Chinese New Year's celebration.  About half a million Chinese traveled to the US before the flights were cancelled.   

 

In the meantime, what the fuck were they talking about when the "it's just a flu" and "stop fearmongering" and "this is racist" and "masks are useless and increase your chance of getting infected" lithany of virtuous voices of which Trump's wasn't one went on and on for the crucial weeks and months when, indeed, the pandemic could have been handled a helluva lot better?  What the fuck were they doing, letting it spread far and wide before making a spectacular U-turn and shifting the blame?  And how come people who can't claim old age or any other cognitive excuse for amnesia don't fucking remember any of it?  How the fuck is it even possible?  They remember each and every one of Trump's outrageously uncouth, callous, stupid, infuriating remarks on each and every subject under the sun -- but they don't remember that campaign conducted by, not Trump but his opponents?  

 

I honestly don't understand how these things work.  I swear.  

 

  • Like 2
  • Thanks 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
13 minutes ago, ilumairen said:


Did you notice the number (and diversity) of fact check sources?
 

The ad did splice footage, and the context of the original statements is recorded and easily found through multiple sources.

 

 

for the last 8 months the videos and audios of trump saying the virus was a hoax (directly and in this various ways)  have been played over and over again for the whole world to witness without there being any possibility of mixup in what he said,  thus so what if maybe during one of his sick, twisted, hell raising and violent rallies someone had trouble hearing correctly back then, for that does not eliminate that over the next 8 months what trump said was clearly and undeniably submitted to the world.   

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, old3bob said:

 

for the last 8 months the videos and audios of trump saying the virus was a hoax (directly and in this various ways)  have been played over and over again for the whole world to witness without there being any possibility of mixup in what he said,  thus so what if maybe during one of his sick, twisted, hell raising and violent rallies someone had trouble hearing correctly back then, for that does not eliminate that over the next 8 months what trump said was clearly and undeniably submitted to the world.   


Please provide clips of him directly calling the coronavirus a hoax (which is the present topic (I.e. comment) I have been responding to) in any other venue than the one discussed in the numerous sources I have linked.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 minutes ago, Taomeow said:

 

I wonder if anyone remembers something else.  Something that, at the time, made my hair stand on end.  To wit, how the dems accused him of racism and fearmongreing for banning flights from China.  For closing the borders.  For placing the retrieved travelers from abroad in quarantines.  The "hug a Chinese" campaign they initiated.  The shaming of "racists" who made a peep about China being the epicenter of an epidemic that should have concerned anyone who would bother to take a second look at least as much as it bothered me when I did -- in early January.  Beautiful virtue signaling, deadly consequences.  In my family, the Chinese are hugged on a regular basis without admonitions from the left and my son is more likely than not to eventually marry one of them -- whose opinion in January and February was, don't hug a Chinese unless you know for a fact he or she hasn't just arrived from Wuhan.  Which alone sent 5 million travelers far and wide for the Chinese New Year's celebration.  About half a million Chinese traveled to the US before the flights were cancelled.   

 

In the meantime, what the fuck were they talking about when the "it's just a flu" and "stop fearmongering" and "this is racist" and "masks are useless and increase your chance of getting infected" lithany of virtuous voices of which Trump's wasn't one went on and on for the crucial weeks and months when, indeed, the pandemic could have been handled a helluva lot better?  What the fuck were they doing, letting it spread far and wide before making a spectacular U-turn and shifting the blame?  And how come people who can't claim old age or any other cognitive excuse for amnesia don't fucking remember any of it?  How the fuck is it even possible?  They remember each and every one of Trump's outrageously uncouth, callous, stupid, infuriating remarks on each and every subject under the sun -- but they don't remember that campaign conducted by, not Trump but his opponents?  

 

I honestly don't understand how these things work.  I swear.  

 

 

I also wonder why  "they' play the devils advocate when the devil is about to sink his teeth into them?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, ilumairen said:


Please provide clips of him directly calling the coronavirus a hoax (which is the present topic (I.e. comment) I have been responding to) in any other venue than the one discussed in the numerous sources I have linked.

 

have you been living under a rock for the last 8 months and not yet seen the clips that have played hundreds of time over...if so i invite you to find the clips for your own self.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
18 minutes ago, old3bob said:

 

have you been living under a rock for the last 8 months and not yet seen the clips that have played hundreds of time over...if so i invite you to find the clips for your own self.


From the linked article:

 

Quote

Our reading of these comments is that Trump is saying Democratic criticism of him is a hoax, not that the coronavirus doesn’t exist or wasn’t real. We’ve been unable to find other comments of Trump suggesting that.


https://www.politifact.com/article/2020/oct/08/ask-politifact-are-you-sure-donald-trump-didnt-cal/

 

I am not suggesting he didn’t downplay coronavirus. I am saying he apparently never actually called it a “hoax”.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

NSW had 12 days of no new  transmissions .   But then  :(     it started up again .  

 

So what is going on in WA  ?

 

" “I know people over east say New South Wales is the gold standard, but for the life of me I cannot understand why it’s better to be like (them) with all sorts of restrictions in place, an economy going backward, and outbreaks, than Western Australia with no outbreak, an economy going forward and people safe and healthy,”  - WA Premier.

 

?

 

Western Australia ;  692 cases , 670 recovered , 9 deaths .  Population 2. 656 Mill.

 

It seems that where people are 'more spread out' over an area , of course, transmission will be less. Cities and overcrowding is the friend of pandemic. Also lifestyle ; some people like to congregate in cities , entertainment, socially, cafes, etc . Melbourne has been known to have more of an exciting and cultural nightlife, they have been hit hard  by it .  NSW not so much .  WA less so .

 

Their immediate approach was hard border lockdown to 'outsiders' (WA has always had a hard line 'us and you' attitude to its remoteness from other places , separated from rest of country by vast deserts and dry and unpopulated 'outback' . Its economy is heavily fuelled  by ' mining communities' . They immediately put a heap of people on detection, testing and tracking. As numbers rose , they radically increased those workers numbers .

 

There are a few other factors as well,  but I think the main success was ,  separated groups of people in remote areas driving  state income and the government  being focused on implementing and letting the health professionals dictate an approach .  There (and in most of Oz ) the medical community seems a LOT happier at government response than they are elsewhere  , especially in USA

 

W.A. Government  Media Statement ;

  • Western Australia records better than expected economic results in 2019-20 underpinned by the State's hard border and strong COVID-19 response
  • Western Australia the only State to experience economic growth in 2019-20
  • Business investment grew by 9.3 per cent - the strongest growth in eight years
  • Growth in WA's domestic economy is the strongest result since 2012-13 

Western Australia's hard border and strong COVID-19 response has buttressed the local economy to post the strongest economic growth of any State in 2019-20.

 

Australian Bureau of Statistics figures released today show Western Australia's domestic economy was the only State to experience growth for the 2019-20 year, growing 1.1 per cent.

 

Today's figures also show WA confronted the COVID-19 pandemic from a position of strength, with growth in the State's domestic economy in 2019-20 the strongest result in seven years.

 

This growth in the midst of a pandemic was underpinned by strong business investment, which grew by 9.3 per cent, in part driven by the mining sector which was able to continue operating throughout the pandemic. Economic activity was also supported by government support and stimulus measures.

 

The economic results released today demonstrate the importance of WA's hard border closure for protecting the health of Western Australians and the health of the local economy.

 

States with open borders faired significantly worse than those with closed borders in the June quarter, with New South Wales and Victoria both contracting by around 8.5 per cent. This compares to a six per cent contraction in State Final Demand for WA in the June quarter.

 

 

       
  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Taomeow said:

 

I wonder if anyone remembers something else.  Something that, at the time, made my hair stand on end.  To wit, how the dems accused him of racism and fearmongreing for banning flights from China.  For closing the borders.  For placing the retrieved travelers from abroad in quarantines.  The "hug a Chinese" campaign they initiated.  The shaming of "racists" who made a peep about China being the epicenter of an epidemic that should have concerned anyone who would bother to take a second look at least as much as it bothered me when I did -- in early January.  Beautiful virtue signaling, deadly consequences.  In my family, the Chinese are hugged on a regular basis without admonitions from the left and my son is more likely than not to eventually marry one of them -- whose opinion in January and February was, don't hug a Chinese unless you know for a fact he or she hasn't just arrived from Wuhan.  Which alone sent 5 million travelers far and wide for the Chinese New Year's celebration.  About half a million Chinese traveled to the US before the flights were cancelled.   

 

In the meantime, what the fuck were they talking about when the "it's just a flu" and "stop fearmongering" and "this is racist" and "masks are useless and increase your chance of getting infected" lithany of virtuous voices of which Trump's wasn't one went on and on for the crucial weeks and months when, indeed, the pandemic could have been handled a helluva lot better?  What the fuck were they doing, letting it spread far and wide before making a spectacular U-turn and shifting the blame?  And how come people who can't claim old age or any other cognitive excuse for amnesia don't fucking remember any of it?  How the fuck is it even possible?  They remember each and every one of Trump's outrageously uncouth, callous, stupid, infuriating remarks on each and every subject under the sun -- but they don't remember that campaign conducted by, not Trump but his opponents?  

 

I honestly don't understand how these things work.  I swear.  

 

 

 

Yes, Nancy Pelosi went to Chinatown and said everyone should hug a Chinese person.   Which is about 3 or 4 dimensions of racist anyway.

 

I can only conclude that there are forces at work which act against an objective or balanced view at the moment.


 

Edited by Apech
  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
22 minutes ago, Nungali said:

NSW had 12 days of no new  transmissions .   But then  :(     it started up again .  

 

So what is going on in WA  ?

 

" “I know people over east say New South Wales is the gold standard, but for the life of me I cannot understand why it’s better to be like (them) with all sorts of restrictions in place, an economy going backward, and outbreaks, than Western Australia with no outbreak, an economy going forward and people safe and healthy,”  - WA Premier.

 

?

 

Western Australia ;  692 cases , 670 recovered , 9 deaths .  Population 2. 656 Mill.

 

It seems that where people are 'more spread out' over an area , of course, transmission will be less. Cities and overcrowding is the friend of pandemic. Also lifestyle ; some people like to congregate in cities , entertainment, socially, cafes, etc . Melbourne has been known to have more of an exciting and cultural nightlife, they have been hit hard  by it .  NSW not so much .  WA less so .

 

Their immediate approach was hard border lockdown to 'outsiders' (WA has always had a hard line 'us and you' attitude to its remoteness from other places , separated from rest of country by vast deserts and dry and unpopulated 'outback' . Its economy is heavily fuelled  by ' mining communities' . They immediately put a heap of people on detection, testing and tracking. As numbers rose , they radically increased those workers numbers .

 

There are a few other factors as well,  but I think the main success was ,  separated groups of people in remote areas driving  state income and the government  being focused on implementing and letting the health professionals dictate an approach .  There (and in most of Oz ) the medical community seems a LOT happier at government response than they are elsewhere  , especially in USA

 

W.A. Government  Media Statement ;

  • Western Australia records better than expected economic results in 2019-20 underpinned by the State's hard border and strong COVID-19 response
  • Western Australia the only State to experience economic growth in 2019-20
  • Business investment grew by 9.3 per cent - the strongest growth in eight years
  • Growth in WA's domestic economy is the strongest result since 2012-13 

Western Australia's hard border and strong COVID-19 response has buttressed the local economy to post the strongest economic growth of any State in 2019-20.

 

Australian Bureau of Statistics figures released today show Western Australia's domestic economy was the only State to experience growth for the 2019-20 year, growing 1.1 per cent.

 

Today's figures also show WA confronted the COVID-19 pandemic from a position of strength, with growth in the State's domestic economy in 2019-20 the strongest result in seven years.

 

This growth in the midst of a pandemic was underpinned by strong business investment, which grew by 9.3 per cent, in part driven by the mining sector which was able to continue operating throughout the pandemic. Economic activity was also supported by government support and stimulus measures.

 

The economic results released today demonstrate the importance of WA's hard border closure for protecting the health of Western Australians and the health of the local economy.

 

States with open borders faired significantly worse than those with closed borders in the June quarter, with New South Wales and Victoria both contracting by around 8.5 per cent. This compares to a six per cent contraction in State Final Demand for WA in the June quarter.

 

 

       


I’m from WA, and life is awesomely normal, we had a short season kids soccer comp, we’ve had ‘country champs’ where regional teams from the whole of WA gather in Perth to compete, school holidays saw normal tourist numbers enjoying their country breaks, we’re like a little slice of normal in a troubled world and we appreciate it no end. Apparently our premier had a 90% approval rating! A politician, who 90% of the people agreed with! Unheard of! 

  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I didnt realise you where a 'Sand groper'  :) 

 

When there is a war, heads of government should listen to their top generals .

 

When there is a pandemic they should listen to the medical experts they appointed . 

  • Thanks 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

So we have several folks defending trump who by his own words and actions makes himself indefensible and grossly lacking in human conscience,  (going by any reasonable or rational standards)  oh how nobly nit picking and erudite of you guys.   Such is what he counts on and plays to his advantage with devious and divisive subterfuge, keep it up prove your points and help him continue to pull off his  incredible con job and scam artistry that is crushing, and deeply debasing what good is left in America...help him put little kids in cages separated from parents and "liberate Michigan" if you think that is of human conscience, (among the thousands of other examples that he has has proven himself to be without conscience, especially the part he has willfully played in horrifically increasing covid-19 suffering and deaths !)   Jesus Christ!

Edited by old3bob
  • Thanks 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 hours ago, old3bob said:

So we have several folks defending trump who by his own words and actions makes himself indefensible and grossly lacking in human conscience,  (going by any reasonable or rational standards)  oh how nobly nit picking and erudite of you guys.   Such is what he counts on and plays to his advantage with devious and divisive subterfuge, keep it up prove your points and help him continue to pull off his  incredible con job and scam artistry that is crushing, and deeply debasing what good is left in America...help him put little kids in cages separated from parents and "liberate Michigan" if you think that is of human conscience, (among the thousands of other examples that he has has proven himself to be without conscience, especially the part he has willfully played in horrifically increasing covid-19 suffering and deaths !)   Jesus Christ!


Actually, as @thelerner has attempted to point out, it is such irrationality and outrage which is much more likely to tip the undecided voters.

 

Acknowledging issues with one party (or their campaign) is not endorsement of the other.

 

However, the caging of children started with the party I am affiliated with and my past voting history (and I suspect your own as well) indicates already existing complicity in this. And when I contemplate such, I tend towards @Taomeow having the right idea with not voting at all.

  • Thanks 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, ilumairen said:


Actually, as @thelerner has attempted to point out, it is such irrationality and outrage which is much more likely to tip the undecided voters.

 

Acknowledging issues with one party (or their campaign) is not endorsement of the other.

 

However, the caging of children started with the party I am affiliated with and my past voting history (and I suspect your own as well) indicates already existing complicity in this. And when I contemplate such, I tend towards @Taomeow having the right idea with not voting at all.

 

and there is that saying of, "you are so open minded your brains are falling out"  so if bringing up or pointing out the horrible, recorded and undeniable  in your face facts tip undecided voters towards trump then they are truly under his megalomaniac mind control regardless of what Lerner or anyone else says philosophically.

(although I would give many of the undecided more credit for not taking trump hook, line and sinker than you do ilumairen)  "Duck and cover"

Edited by old3bob
  • Haha 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I can't identify with any of the extant 'political parties' around now, or, ever it seems.  I'm just not invited to 'the party'.

 

I hold no illusory notion that the Dem's 'Party' will somehow 'fix' anything related to what is most valuable and important as I experience it in Life... they are Dogs of War and Servants of Corporations just like Repubs are... but they at least pay a pseudo-lip service to a few natural resource issues and humanistic notions that are important to me, like protecting land from wholesale rape and offering an attempt at equal treatment for minorities, women and lgbtq folks. 

 

But in this case, in 'murica right now... they seem to be the one option available to stop the judicial system hemorrhaging and the rampant profiteering, not to mention the wholesale bigotry, racism and anti-intellectualism that is occuring on a scale beyond the ken of my reckoning.

Edited by silent thunder
enhance
  • Thanks 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, old3bob said:

 

and there is that saying of, "you are so open minded your brains are falling out"  so if bringing up or pointing out the horrible, recorded and undeniable  in your face facts tip undecided voters towards trump then they are truly under his megalomaniac mind control regardless of what Lerner or anyone else says philosophically.

(although I would give many of the undecided more credit for not taking trump hook, line and sinker than you do ilumairen)  "Duck and cover"

So are you saying people who are against Trump, but not against Trump enough, are the ones with there brains falling out?  They are not one sided enough?  Should they not vote, because they don't meet your conditions of outrage? 

 

If you want 'horrible, recorded and undeniable  in your face facts' you can get them on Fox or Breibart or Limbaugh.  They've got 100s of pages of statistics and stories of outrage.  Their letter writers love statistics and the raw emotion of calling people monsters.   They spent 4 years calling Obama a megalomaniac mind controller, communist, socialist traitor.  Then he won, then spent another 4 years calling him nasty stuff.  Daily, 1000's of posts. 

 

Did it work on you?  Did you read there 100,000 posts?  Even the ones with statistics, the ones 'proving' what a monster, Obama and his administration was?  If not they're still there.  Read through them, learn.. maybe you'll change your mind?  But I doubt it. 

 

Won't work on you, and you know what, over the top insults, even with statistics, are great for preaching to the choir, but if you're not there then, talk in language they'll keep reading and understand.  From there point of view not your outrage. 

  • Thanks 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Life´s hard.  Many of us struggle with our relationships, work, finances, health, and general emotional equilibrium.  In the midst of all this, I can´t worry if some people think I´m not sufficiently opposed to Trump.  To be clear,  I think he´s a bad guy and don´t want him as my president.  Sorry if my level of outrage doesn´t rise to your standards.  I just don´t have the energy to be that upset anymore. 

Edited by liminal_luke
  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
23 hours ago, ilumairen said:

Or maybe the raucousness led more easily to you (and others) drawing a false correlation/understanding? 

 

 

I think that Kamala and I have the same malady.  Lionize.

  • Like 1
  • Haha 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites