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Top officials in the White House were aware in early 2019 of classified intelligence indicating Russia was secretly offering bounties to the Taliban for the deaths of Americans, a full year earlier than has been previously reported, according to U.S. officials with direct knowledge of the intelligence.

The assessment was included in at least one of President Donald Trump’s written daily intelligence briefings at the time, according to the officials. Then-national security adviser John Bolton also told colleagues he briefed Trump on the intelligence assessment in March 2019.

The White House did not respond to questions about Trump or other officials‚Äô awareness of Russia‚Äôs provocations in 2019. The White House has said Trump was not ‚ÄĒ and still has not been ‚ÄĒ briefed on the intelligence assessments because they have not been fully verified. However, it is rare for intelligence to be confirmed without a shadow of a doubt before it is presented to top officials.

The administration’s earlier awareness of the Russian efforts raises additional questions about why Trump did not take any punitive action against Moscow for efforts that put the lives of Americans servicemembers at risk. Trump has sought throughout his time in office to improve relations with Russia and its president, Vladimir Putin, moving earlier this year to try to reinstate Russia as part of a group of world leaders it had been kicked out of.

In hundreds of highly classified phone calls with foreign heads of state, President Donald Trump was so consistently unprepared for discussion of serious issues, so often outplayed in his conversations with powerful leaders like Russian President Vladimir Putin and Turkish President Recep Erdogan, and so abusive to leaders of America's principal allies, that the calls helped convince some senior US officials -- including his former secretaries of state and defense, two national security advisers and his longest-serving chief of staff -- that the President himself posed a danger to the national security of the United States, according to White House and intelligence officials intimately familiar with the contents of the conversations.

The calls caused former top Trump deputies -- including national security advisers H.R. McMaster and John Bolton, Defense Secretary James Mattis, Secretary of State Rex Tillerson, and White House chief of staff John Kelly, as well as intelligence officials -- to conclude that the President was often "delusional," as two sources put it, in his dealings with foreign leaders. The sources said there was little evidence that the President became more skillful or competent in his telephone conversations with most heads of state over time. Rather, he continued to believe that he could either charm, jawbone or bully almost any foreign leader into capitulating to his will, and often pursued goals more attuned to his own agenda than what many of his senior advisers considered the national interest.

Edited by moment
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...and lets include the many millions who are  at least misinformed about and or blinded by trump and his army of lackeys along with the likes of fox news and alt-right propaganda,  there are also those who willingly worship and join with trump in his corrupt destruction of what good is still left in America for their own ill begotten power and gain, which includes most his administration and the  GOP in the house and senate who have basically sold their souls in very sickening and perverse submission to a "wanna  be" dictator and narcissistic mad man!

Edited by old3bob
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This Russian-bounties-in-Afghanistan story smells like BS. It relies entirely on nameless intelligence sources who fed the story to the NYT without any corroboration.  Anyone who has lived through the past few decades has no excuse to take these spooks at their word- they have proved themselves to be liars utterly devoid of conscience. According to the NYT article, "The intelligence assessment is said to be based at least in part on interrogations of captured Afghan militants and criminals." That is some mighty flimsy stuff. The NYT is by and large a stenographer for the US foreign policy establishment and has zero journalistic integrity in this department.

 

The story also doesn't make any sense. Russia has nothing to gain tactically or strategically from shelling out cash to pick off a few soldiers here and there in Afghanistan. It makes zero difference on the ground as to the future of Afghanistan or who is in control there.

 

Lastly, the US casualty figures from the past few years are not showing a significant spike. 17 in 2017, 15 in 2018, 22 in 2019, 9 so far in 2020. If the Russians are showing up with bags of cash it must be Monopoly money.

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6 minutes ago, SirPalomides said:

This Russian-bounties-in-Afghanistan story smells like BS. It relies entirely on nameless intelligence sources who fed the story to the NYT without any corroboration.  Anyone who has lived through the past few decades has no excuse to take these spooks at their word- they have proved themselves to be liars utterly devoid of conscience. According to the NYT article, "The intelligence assessment is said to be based at least in part on interrogations of captured Afghan militants and criminals." That is some mighty flimsy stuff. The NYT is by and large a stenographer for the US foreign policy establishment and has zero journalistic integrity in this department.

 

The story also doesn't make any sense. Russia has nothing to gain tactically or strategically from shelling out cash to pick off a few soldiers here and there in Afghanistan. It makes zero difference on the ground as to the future of Afghanistan or who is in control there.

 

Lastly, the US casualty figures from the past few years are not showing a significant spike. 17 in 2017, 15 in 2018, 22 in 2019, 9 so far in 2020. If the Russians are showing up with bags of cash it must be Monopoly money.

 

nothing makes any sense when it comes to trump and his words and actions,  except in the sense of or for his megalomaniac evil !

 

and it is clear and undeniable fact that he has bowed down to Putin multiple times at a severe cost to America and her long time allies

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1 minute ago, old3bob said:

 

nothing makes any sense when it comes to trump and his words and actions,  except in the sense of or for his megalomaniac evil !

 

 

What? Are you saying Trump in fact masterminded this Afghanistan bounty hunt? This is the kind of crazy thinking that happens when you look at Trump as some sort of sui generis incarnation of evil. It eats your brain and you spout out nonsense.

 

1 minute ago, old3bob said:

 

 

and it is clear and undeniable fact that he has bowed down to Putin multiple times at a severe cost to America and her long time allies

 

No, it's not a clear and undeniable fact. In fact there are many clear and undeniable facts that contradict this assertion, such as the expansion of NATO, the direct arming of Ukraine's neo-Nazi militias, the strongest sanctions yet imposed on Russia, and the continual campaign to bleed Syria.

 

And America's long time allies Saudi Arabia, Israel, UAE, and Turkey have benefited from the Trump presidency.

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Let me say again that I find the knee-jerk anti-Russia sentiments among Americans, both liberals and conservatives, extremely dangerous. It puts grave domestic pressure not only on Trump but on future presidents and other politicians to maintain and escalate an antagonistic stance toward Russia, just to prove that they aren't being controlled by the Kremlin somehow, regardless of the consequences. You don't have to like the Russian government to see that this is crazy.

Edited by SirPalomides

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it is absolute knee jerk nonsense to spout that trump has not bowed down to Putin multiple times, if you can't see that yourself from the recorded videos of him (besides other eye witness accounts) and Putin you have proven your blindness...

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16 minutes ago, old3bob said:

it is absolute knee jerk nonsense to spout that trump has not bowed down to Putin multiple times, if you can't see that yourself from the recorded videos of him (besides other eye witness accounts) and Putin you have proven your blindness...

 

I think I've asked about 5 times in the course of this thread, of those asserting that Trump is a Putin puppet, to provide some concrete examples of this, and how they account for the various ways Trump has not helped Putin that I've mentioned above. I've gotten nothing. Maybe you can help me.

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27 minutes ago, SirPalomides said:

 

I think I've asked about 5 times in the course of this thread, of those asserting that Trump is a Putin puppet, to provide some concrete examples of this, and how they account for the various ways Trump has not helped Putin that I've mentioned above. I've gotten nothing. Maybe you can help me.

 

...at least watch the well known videos of trump bowing down to Putin, also read the 1st hand accounts of long time and widely respected people on their related experiences... you are capable of finding those yourself with a search engine...  btw, the Ukraine incident and Russian interference in US elections are not hoax's as trump apologists,  foolish political mis-leaders and worshipers spout...

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Hey SirPalomides, 

 

Your words happen to exactly coincide with a friend of mine called SenoraLeFay. She is my neighbor and lives right next door to me. Like, her words line up with yours almost exactly, almost. So, I will not direct my thoughts to you, but will instead talk about her.

I have noticed that my neighbor SenoraLeFay likes to further Russian (and Chinese) propaganda points and use their same tactics. Such as online trolling and sealion-ing, and sometimes offering "whataboutisms". I have also noticed that SenoraLeFay tends to term domestic American responses to Trump as "knee-jerk reactions," when nearly four years of obvious--obvious--abuse and malfeasance has transpired across the executive branch. If four years does not rate as long enough to consider a response as "reasonable" (as in it provides enough evidence for a reason-able person, one able to reason, to make a conclusion for one's own self), then perhaps the thirty-plus years of Trump's criminal activities--known to most Americans, especially New Yorkers--provides further time to warrant a response that one could call 'reasonable,' versus 'knee-jerk.'

SenoraLeFay, my neighbor, who lives here next to me, also offers as evidence of Trump's...uh, competence(?)...how entities such as Turkey, UAE, Israel, and Saudi Arabia have benefited from Trump's actions...as if that...uh, helps(?) her point? I found it funny to consider Saudi an ally considering that Saudi funded, planned, and executed the 9/11 attacks. I found it funny considering the blatant trend toward right-wing dictatorship emerging in Israel through the actions of Netanyahu (indicted on corruption charges). I found it funny to mention Turkey considering the disgraceful, treasonous actions of General Flynn, acting on behalf of the Trump admin to further the plans of yet another dictator and Putin-puppet Erdogan.   
   
SenoraLeFay, my neighbor, who lives next to me and meets me for breakfast sometimes, also tends to request examples of Trump's bending the knee to Putin. She has buffeted the--again, OBVIOUS to sapient Americans after four years--examples I offer of his puppet status. Such as: 1) how Donald publicly down-played in the pre-election days of how 17 Intelligence agencies named Putin/Russia as hacking the election process/dialog; 2) how Donald accepts Putin's personal denials of meddling in U.S. elections over his own intelligence communities' conclusions which state otherwise; 3) how Donald meets routinely with Putin in private without others present; 4) how Donald seems incapable of saying one ill thing about Vladimir, and yet he can take an almost literal shit on the faces of American POWs like Senator John McCain, Gold Star families, and yes, now seemingly shrugging off the fact--yes, fact; Bolton briefed him in person on this a year ago--that Putin/Russia but bounties on American heads. I don't want to mention 5) that Donald likely entered into the equivalents of payday loans with Russian oligarchs, as his taxes have not yet been revealed--the offering of tax returns that Americans have come to expect from uncompromised American presidents.  

Anyway. I've also noticed that trolls are not worth spending too much time on. While I cannot ignore SenoraLeFay, as she lives next door to me and meets me sometimes for dinner, I can ignore online trolls who remind me of her. Thus, SirPalomides, I ignore you. Buh-bye. -mote

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SirPalomides has always baffled me but now that mote has unmasked his secret identity -- as the colorful SenoraLeFay -- the pieces are finally starting to fall into place.  

 

Edited by liminal_luke
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20 minutes ago, Mote said:

 "whataboutisms"

 

A lovely bit of newspeak. Translation: any attempt to put American exceptionalist claims in a global context or expose hypocrisy in American foreign policy.

 

Mote, your first mistake is taking me for a Trump supporter.

 

You confuse examples of Trump's personal corruption with evidence that he is a Putin puppet, and ignore the serious policy moves made during his tenure that have hurt Russia and escalated tension with Russia to the worst level since the (supposed) end of the Cold War.

 

You completely misunderstand my point about Turkey, UAE, Israel, Saudi Arabia. Of course these are all thoroughly loathsome states.  They are also long-time US allies, so when people say that Trump isn't helping US allies, one has to ask who they mean. The US has long been allied with some of the sleaziest, nastiest people on the planet.

 

You take US intelligence agencies at their word about Russian election meddling, despite these agencies' dismal record of disinformation with frequently disastrous results,  "OBVIOUS to sapient Americans."

 

You talk about taking "an almost literal shit" on the face of Senator John McCain like that's a bad thing.

Edited by SirPalomides

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1 hour ago, SirPalomides said:

 

A lovely bit of newspeak. Translation: any attempt to put American exceptionalist claims in a global context or expose hypocrisy in American foreign policy.

 

Mote, your first mistake is taking me for a Trump supporter.

 

You confuse examples of Trump's personal corruption with evidence that he is a Putin puppet, and ignore the serious policy moves made during his tenure that have hurt Russia and escalated tension with Russia to the worst level since the (supposed) end of the Cold War.

 

You completely misunderstand my point about Turkey, UAE, Israel, Saudi Arabia. Of course these are all thoroughly loathsome states.  They are also long-time US allies, so when people say that Trump isn't helping US allies, one has to ask who they mean. The US has long been allied with some of the sleaziest, nastiest people on the planet.

 

You take US intelligence agencies at their word about Russian election meddling, despite these agencies' dismal record of disinformation with frequently disastrous results,  "OBVIOUS to sapient Americans."

 

You talk about taking "an almost literal shit" on the face of Senator John McCain like that's a bad thing.

 

Israel a loathsome state? As compared to what? Also, even though I strongly opposed McCain's politics, there is no doubt in my mind, that he strived to be an honorable man. If only all politicians did, no matter their philosophies, this would be a much better world! 

Edited by moment

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4 minutes ago, moment said:

 

Israel a loathsome state? As compared to what? 

 

If you really need to ask, consult the work of Norman Finkelstein, Noam Chomsky, and many others.

 

 

4 minutes ago, moment said:

 

Also, even though I strongly opposed McCain's politics, there is no doubt in my mind, that he strived to be an honorable man.

 

Was that when he was bombing villages in Vietnam, cheerleading the Iraq war, lobbying for war with Iran, or posing with jihadist death squads in Syria and arming them? The man was an utter creep.

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24 minutes ago, SirPalomides said:

 

If you really need to ask, consult the work of Norman Finkelstein, Noam Chomsky, and many others.

 

 

 

Was that when he was bombing villages in Vietnam, cheerleading the Iraq war, lobbying for war with Iran, or posing with jihadist death squads in Syria and arming them? The man was an utter creep.

 

I have been familiar with Finkelstein and Chomsky for a long time, very educational.  But, they are not the perfect go-to, no one is.

As for what you say about McCain's political activities, it can be said, that there is the same level of horror, for every top level statesmen in the world, most likely even the ones you prefer. But, he believed he was doing the right thing, and even though I disagreed, with all of those things, you mentioned and even though the road to hell is paved with so-called good intentions; the very definition of honor is: doing what you believe is right for the common good and keeping your word.  Why is that important? Because it makes everything clearer as to where everyone stands.

It is that very lack of honor that makes Trump a monster!

Edited by moment

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Data on Financial Transfers Bolstered Suspicions That Russia Offered Bounties

American officials intercepted electronic data showing large financial transfers from a bank account controlled by Russia’s military intelligence agency to a Taliban-linked account, which was among the evidence that supported their conclusion that Russia covertly offered bounties for killing U.S. and coalition troops in Afghanistan, according to three officials familiar with the intelligence.

Though the United States has accused Russia of providing general support to the Taliban before, analysts concluded from other intelligence that the transfers were most likely part of a bounty program that detainees described during interrogations. Investigators also identified by name numerous Afghans in a network linked to the suspected Russian operation, the officials said ‚ÄĒ including, two of them added, a man believed to have served as an intermediary for distributing some of the funds and who is now thought to be in Russia.

The intercepts bolstered the findings gleaned from the interrogations, helping reduce an earlier disagreement among intelligence analysts and agencies over the reliability of the detainees. The disclosures further undercut White House officials’ claim that the intelligence was too uncertain to brief President Trump. In fact, the information was provided to him in his daily written brief in late February, two officials have said.

Afghan officials this week described a sequence of events that dovetails with the account of the intelligence. They said that several businessmen who transfer money through the informal ‚Äúhawala‚ÄĚ system were arrested in Afghanistan over the past six months and are suspected of being part of a ring of middlemen who operated between the Russian intelligence agency, known as the G.R.U., and Taliban-linked militants. The businessmen were arrested in what the officials described as sweeping raids in the north of Afghanistan, as well as in Kabul.

 

---Democratic Underground

--The New York Times

--The Chicago Times

--The Hill

--AP News

--Political Wire

--Distinct Today

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While being sincere and honest are certainly part of being honorable, I can't accept that they form the totality of it, otherwise there's no end of "honorable" people through history who clung sincerely and unswervingly to monstrous ideas and acts.

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Since I ignored the aforementioned Sir's account, I can only see a response as quoted in moment's post.

RE: "...any attempt to put American exceptionalism...": Nah. I agree with Philip K. Dick, that the empire never ended.   
   
RE: "...taking me for a Trump supporter.": Nope. I said that the aforementioned Sir's words remind me of a troll I know named SenoraLeFay, who lives next door. Indicating trolling, and not support for a politician.

 

RE: "...confuse...Trump's personal corruption with evidence that he is a Putin puppet...": uh....yes? No? Corrupt, because he serves as a puppet. It does not seem reasonable--again, for a reason-able person--that a president bending the knee to another leader's every last wish does not constitute political favor/servitude. If one purports that Xi does not get what he wants from Trump, that Putin does not get what he wants from Trump, then perhaps one would wonder why Chinese officials have stated that they want Trump to win as he is "destroying US alliances"<--a quote, google it. They've gotten everything they wanted. But an aforementioned Sir seems to encourage a free-thinking citizen to buy the Xi/Putin line that they suffer due to the bold action of DiaperDonny.

 

RE: "...loathsome states...US allies...sleazy people..." Nah. See prior points regarding allies/alliances and an empire that never ended. Yes, one could consider Turkey an ally once upon a time, for instance...but not Erdogan. England was once the sworn enemy of the U.S. Things change. This point, like most points that trolls tend to make, falls apart with maybe six seconds of contemplation.

RE: "...take agencies at their word...": Nope. Seventeen though. Seventeen. But yes, TRUST does factor at some point in a healthy government. Hence the reasons for security clearances (practically done away with by PoorDonald), congressional appointment hearings (also done away with by BabyDonnie), and checks and balances among branches consisting of persistent oversight and non-partisan judicial rulings (done away with in the open through Kav'another's blatant mentioning of Clintonian plots in his senate confirmation). I received a secret clearance at one point, as did my father before me. Patriots take this stuff seriously. Grifters and charlatans destroy civil society from within, and trolls such as the aforementioned Sir work to discredit those who do their prescribed duty to standard.

RE: "...John McCain": Khizr Khan though? Ghazala Khan though? Though Patanjali advises we shun shame, still, to this I say: for shame. For shame! As Rama offers at the end of the battle in the Ramayana, when he advises the new king of the demon city: the first duty of the ruler is to administer justice (and not to hide or obfuscate like DonnyMoscow or Bill "Impossibly Corrupt" Barr); the second most important thing: care for the veterans and fallen. It matters. These things matter to those who care. I gave a lot for my country, and when serving overseas, I still tried my best to serve those from other countries. Even back then, even as a young brash lieutenant, I knew that the actions of an individual can still make a difference. I do not lie, I do my best to do right by others. I will not let a criminal political faction--whether on this shore or some other--dissuade me from standing for what's right, true, and just. A pale excuse for a leader who cannot help but insult the parents of a fallen, first-generation immigrant soldier has got to go. It is simple, and, yes, OBVIOUS.

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6 minutes ago, moment said:

Data on Financial Transfers Bolstered Suspicions That Russia Offered Bounties

American officials intercepted electronic data showing large financial transfers from a bank account controlled by Russia’s military intelligence agency to a Taliban-linked account, which was among the evidence that supported their conclusion that Russia covertly offered bounties for killing U.S. and coalition troops in Afghanistan, according to three officials familiar with the intelligence.

Though the United States has accused Russia of providing general support to the Taliban before, analysts concluded from other intelligence that the transfers were most likely part of a bounty program that detainees described during interrogations. Investigators also identified by name numerous Afghans in a network linked to the suspected Russian operation, the officials said ‚ÄĒ including, two of them added, a man believed to have served as an intermediary for distributing some of the funds and who is now thought to be in Russia.

The intercepts bolstered the findings gleaned from the interrogations, helping reduce an earlier disagreement among intelligence analysts and agencies over the reliability of the detainees. The disclosures further undercut White House officials’ claim that the intelligence was too uncertain to brief President Trump. In fact, the information was provided to him in his daily written brief in late February, two officials have said.

Afghan officials this week described a sequence of events that dovetails with the account of the intelligence. They said that several businessmen who transfer money through the informal ‚Äúhawala‚ÄĚ system were arrested in Afghanistan over the past six months and are suspected of being part of a ring of middlemen who operated between the Russian intelligence agency, known as the G.R.U., and Taliban-linked militants. The businessmen were arrested in what the officials described as sweeping raids in the north of Afghanistan, as well as in Kabul.

 

 

Notice a pattern here?

Edited by SirPalomides

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5 minutes ago, SirPalomides said:

 

Notice a pattern here?

 

I notice patterns everywhere.

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CNN)The Senate will incorporate the annual intelligence policy legislation into the National Defense Authorization Act -- but only after stripping language from the intelligence bill that would have required presidential campaigns to report offers of foreign election help.

Sen. Mark Warner of Virginia, the top Democrat on the Senate Intelligence Committee, said Tuesday that Senate Republicans forced the removal of the election reporting provision as a condition to include the intelligence bill on the must-pass defense policy legislation.

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14 minutes ago, SirPalomides said:

While being sincere and honest are certainly part of being honorable, I can't accept that they form the totality of it, otherwise there's no end of "honorable" people through history who clung sincerely and unswervingly to monstrous ideas and acts.

 

Totality, what a concept!:blink:

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41 minutes ago, Mote said:

 

 

RE: "...confuse...Trump's personal corruption with evidence that he is a Putin puppet...": uh....yes? No? Corrupt, because he serves as a puppet. It does not seem reasonable--again, for a reason-able person--that a president bending the knee to another leader's every last wish does not constitute political favor/servitude. If one purports that Xi does not get what he wants from Trump, that Putin does not get what he wants from Trump, then perhaps one would wonder why Chinese officials have stated that they want Trump to win as he is "destroying US alliances"<--a quote, google it. They've gotten everything they wanted. But an aforementioned Sir seems to encourage a free-thinking citizen to buy the Xi/Putin line that they suffer due to the bold action of DiaperDonny.

 

Ah, the old Cui Bono fallacy, beloved by conspiracy theorists everywhere. That Trump is unwittingly helping China and Russia through his stupidity does not prove that he is a puppet. By this same logic, Bush and Cheney were Iranian agents because Iran benefited more than anyone else from the Iraq invasion.

 

And again there are numerous cases where Trump has exacerbated problems for both China and Russia.

 

Quote

RE: "...loathsome states...US allies...sleazy people..." Nah. See prior points regarding allies/alliances and an empire that never ended. Yes, one could consider Turkey an ally once upon a time, for instance...but not Erdogan. England was once the sworn enemy of the U.S. Things change. This point, like most points that trolls tend to make, falls apart with maybe six seconds of contemplation.

 

 

 

Turkey, under Erdogan, remains a US ally, and a key one. They are the second biggest military in NATO. That's why, when it came time to choose between Turkey and the Syrian Kurds, the choice was a no-brainer, and the Kurds were duly betrayed (as many had been predicting for years). Oh, and many of those Turkish-backed death squads who moved into Kurdish territory were armed and funded by the US, with enthusiastic support from your hero McCain. And you also brought up the case of Michael Flynn- you ever notice why the lapdog US media doesn't make nearly as much noise about his well-documented work for the Turkish state, compared to the extremely flimsy evidence about Trump's collusion with Russia? Because Turkey is still a US ally.

 

Quote

 



RE: "...take agencies at their word...": Nope. Seventeen though. Seventeen. But yes, TRUST does factor at some point in a healthy government. Hence the reasons for security clearances (practically done away with by PoorDonald), congressional appointment hearings (also done away with by BabyDonnie), and checks and balances among branches consisting of persistent oversight and non-partisan judicial rulings (done away with in the open through Kav'another's blatant mentioning of Clintonian plots in his senate confirmation). I received a secret clearance at one point, as did my father before me.

 

17, 50, 100 agencies, makes no difference when there is a common agenda, little evidence made public, and plenty of motivation to lie and obfuscate.

 

Quote

Patriots take this stuff seriously. Grifters and charlatans destroy civil society from within, and trolls such as the aforementioned Sir work to discredit those who do their prescribed duty to standard.

 

 

I'm quite pleased that you have invested me with such influence but rest assured no one cares what I think. The US is declining under the weight of its own malignant stupidity.

 

 

Quote



RE: "...John McCain": Khizr Khan though? Ghazala Khan though? Though Patanjali advises we shun shame, still, to this I say: for shame. For shame! As Rama offers at the end of the battle in the Ramayana, when he advises the new king of the demon city: the first duty of the ruler is to administer justice (and not to hide or obfuscate like DonnyMoscow or Bill "Impossibly Corrupt" Barr); the second most important thing: care for the veterans and fallen. It matters. These things matter to those who care. I gave a lot for my country, and when serving overseas, I still tried my best to serve those from other countries. Even back then, even as a young brash lieutenant, I knew that the actions of an individual can still make a difference. I do not lie, I do my best to do right by others. I will not let a criminal political faction--whether on this shore or some other--dissuade me from standing for what's right, true, and just. A pale excuse for a leader who cannot help but insult the parents of a fallen, first-generation immigrant soldier has got to go. It is simple, and, yes, OBVIOUS.

 

That's a lot of words to defend a manifestly soulless sociopath whose "service" consisted of bombing defenseless villages. "I hate the gooks, I will hate them as long as I live." - John McCain, 2000 Say hi to Reagan in hell, John.

Edited by SirPalomides

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Remember that the logic offered by trolls will not ever wholly cohere...

 

I bid this thread a fond farewell. My best to everyone. -mote

Edited by Mote
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