Recommended Posts

5 minutes ago, zerostao said:

I can’t say we are in uncharted waters. There has been an all out open conflict civil war. And in 1950 Harry S Truman gave this message to Congress on the topic of Internal Security.

”Once a government is committed to the principle of silencing the voices of opposition, it has only one way to go, and that is down the path of increasingly repressive measures, until it becomes a source of terror to all its citizens and creates a country where everyone lives in fear.”

 

cancel culture will eventually cancel us all. What’s that saying about, 

“First they came for the...”

 

Well..... I'll put it this way. When I turn on the news lately these days the first thing that comes to mind as the biggest threat to our country isn't cancel culture.

  • Thanks 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I

21 minutes ago, dmattwads said:

President Trump has become the first President in US history to be impeached twice.

 

I would have preferred once, w/ Senate approval. 

They only got 9 Republicans to join in.  That bodes poorly for getting 17 Republican votes in the Senate.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
35 minutes ago, dmattwads said:

 

Well..... I'll put it this way. When I turn on the news lately these days the first thing that comes to mind as the biggest threat to our country isn't cancel culture.

I avoid network programming. Don’t watch tv, trying to limit my online time lately too. I see several threats, all serious ones.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 minutes ago, zerostao said:

I avoid network programming.

 

I guess that's why when there was sedition last week against the government of the Untied States and democracy itself you think the biggest threat to democracy is cancel culture?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
14 minutes ago, thelerner said:

I

I would have preferred once, w/ Senate approval. 

They only got 9 Republicans to join in.  That bodes poorly for getting 17 Republican votes in the Senate.

 

true but the gutless, spineless trump cult members are on record as being so which will catch up to them sooner or later.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
14 minutes ago, dmattwads said:

 

I guess that's why when there was sedition last week against the government of the Untied States and democracy itself you think the biggest threat to democracy is cancel culture?

Where did I say that IMO the biggest threat to democracy is cancel culture?
Please refrain from trying to falsely frame what I’m saying.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 minutes ago, zerostao said:

Where did I say that IMO the biggest threat to democracy is cancel culture?
Please refrain from trying to falsely frame what I’m saying.

 

1 hour ago, zerostao said:

I can’t say we are in uncharted waters. There has been an all out open conflict civil war. And in 1950 Harry S Truman gave this message to Congress on the topic of Internal Security.

”Once a government is committed to the principle of silencing the voices of opposition, it has only one way to go, and that is down the path of increasingly repressive measures, until it becomes a source of terror to all its citizens and creates a country where everyone lives in fear.”

 

cancel culture will eventually cancel us all. What’s that saying about, 

“First they came for the...”

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I´ve never liked Trump and want to see him out of office as soon as possible but still wonder if starting an impeachment process now is worth the trouble.  What I personally need right now is calm and it feels like impeachment would needlessly stir the waters.  If he stays in till the end and starts a war in his final hour I´ll edit this post to acknowledge I was wrong.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, liminal_luke said:

I´ve never liked Trump and want to see him out of office as soon as possible but still wonder if starting an impeachment process now is worth the trouble.  What I personally need right now is calm and it feels like impeachment would needlessly stir the waters.  If he stays in till the end and starts a war in his final hour I´ll edit this post to acknowledge I was wrong.  

 

I think AOC makes a very good argument for why impeachment now...

 

https://aldianews.com/articles/politics/rep-aoc-makes-speech-deemed-historic-condemning-white-supremacy-congress/62075

  • Thanks 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

people in other democracies must think 50% or more of Americans are completely bonkers or worse  in that so many still didn't want the president impeached after the horrendous, violent and dangerous shit he pulled in regards to the voting process and at the Capitol !  So far he has only suffered minuscule consequences!  For instance:  he  lost his social media accounts and became the only potus to be impeached twice when he should be in jail at this moment awaiting further trail without bail,  along with his thousands of far right terrorists responsible for murder and destruction !  It's all right there recorded on video!  We need some major law changes for the rights of a president, for what we have now is nuts legally, morally, ethically and lacking common sense to an absolute absurd level in what one madman can get away with and remain in office !

  • Thanks 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, old3bob said:

people in other democracies must think 50% or more of Americans are completely bonkers or worse  in that so many still didn't want the president impeached after the horrendous, violent and dangerous shit he pulled in regards to the voting process and at the Capitol ! 

 

I might be bonkers (or worse!) for suggesting that we just ride out this last week or so of Trump´s presidency without the drama of an impeachment proceeding, but there´s another way of looking at it.  It might also be that I wish that all of us, as Americans, could collectively sit down on a metaphorical parkbench somewhere for a second and feel the sun on our faces.  It might be that I´m tired and don´t want the inevitable drama that an impeachment proceeding would inevitably bring.  Or maybe I worry that as a species we´re approaching the beginning of our end and am just deeply despairing and freaked out about pretty much all of it.

 

Ok, yeah...bonkers it is.

Edited by liminal_luke

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 minutes ago, liminal_luke said:

 

I might be bonkers (or worse!) for suggesting that we just ride out this last week or so of Trump´s presidency without the drama of an impeachment proceeding, but there´s another way of looking at it.  It might also be that I wish that all of us, as Americans, could collectively sit down on a metaphorical parkbench somewhere for a second and feel the sun on our faces.  It might be that I´m tired and don´t want the inevitable drama that an impeachment proceeding would inevitably bring.  Or maybe I worry that as a species we´re approaching the beginning of our end and am just deeply despairing and freaked out about pretty much all of it.

 

Ok, yeah...bonkers it is.

 

I agree that would be great, but that didn't really seem to be the vibe of those guys storming the Capital last week unfortunately. :-(

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Here’s one of the better pieces of commentary I’ve read:

Donald Trump's second impeachment is a solemn moment that could signal America's renewal or ruin

 

Incidentally, browsing these Dao Bums Trump focused discussions over the years has been very helpful in broadening my understanding of the US political vibe, especially in the times past when right-wingers dominated. I wouldn’t want that rancour back, but it certainly gave me a better understanding of the depth of division within your country than I would otherwise have. 

 

Australia is still a relatively egalitarian country (though less so than it has been), hence extreme right-wingers are relatively rare and so far not much of a problem because they usually come across as remarkably inept and hence are incapable of any coherent organisation.  However, in your country that’s certainly not the case. For instance, I was amazed by the number of Dao Bums members who thoroughly liked Trump and wholeheartedly supported his agenda. These were mostly intelligent, well educated people who somehow didn't feel Trump himself and Trumpism violated their spiritual ideals. That was a real eye-opener for me. 
 

  • Like 2
  • Thanks 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 minutes ago, Yueya said:

Here’s one of the better pieces of commentary I’ve read:

Donald Trump's second impeachment is a solemn moment that could signal America's renewal or ruin

 

Incidentally, browsing these Dao Bums Trump focused discussions over the years has been very helpful in broadening my understanding of the US political vibe, especially in the times past when right-wingers dominated. I wouldn’t want that rancour back, but it certainly gave me a better understanding of the depth of division within your country than I would otherwise have. 

 

Australia is still a relatively egalitarian country (though less so than it has been), hence extreme right-wingers are relatively rare and so far not much of a problem because they usually come across as remarkably inept and hence are incapable of any coherent organisation.  However, in your country that’s certainly not the case. For instance, I was amazed by the number of Dao Bums members who thoroughly liked Trump and wholeheartedly supported his agenda. These were mostly intelligent, well educated people who somehow didn't feel Trump himself and Trumpism violated their spiritual ideals. That was a real eye-opener for me. 
 

 

For me as well for the reasons you stated.

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 minutes ago, Yueya said:

 For instance, I was amazed by the number of Dao Bums members who thoroughly liked Trump and wholeheartedly supported his agenda. These were mostly intelligent, well educated people who somehow didn't feel Trump himself and Trumpism violated their spiritual ideals. That was a real eye-opener for me. 
 

 

I´m a US citizen and I was amazed too!  I wish some of the more right-wing ex-Bums were around now to hear what they´d have to say.  Would those who used to be pro-Trump still be standing with him now?  

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, liminal_luke said:

 

I´m a US citizen and I was amazed too!  I wish some of the more right-wing ex-Bums were around now to hear what they´d have to say.  Would those who used to be pro-Trump still be standing with him now?  

 

I guess I'd always assumed the spiritually inclined would not at all be of a mindset that was far right like that. Guess I was wrong.

  • Like 4

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9 minutes ago, dmattwads said:

 

I guess I'd always assumed the spiritually inclined would not at all be of a mindset that was far right like that. Guess I was wrong.

 

Me too.  I often make the comforting error of assuming other people feel and think as I do, so it really threw me to realize that there was this whole group of seemingly kind, intelligent people who appeared to have dropped in from another planet.  

Edited by liminal_luke
  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, liminal_luke said:

 

Me too.  I often make the comforting error of assuming other people feel and think as I do, so it really threw me to realize that there was this whole group of seemingly kind, intelligent people who seemed to have dropped in from another planet.  

 

There were many people like this in fundamentalist Christianity and it was partially that they seemed so unlike the example of Jesus that I left this movement. They lack basic empathy even though they supposedly follow one of the most compassionate teachers of the ages.

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
33 minutes ago, liminal_luke said:

 

I´m a US citizen and I was amazed too!  I wish some of the more right-wing ex-Bums were around now to hear what they´d have to say.  Would those who used to be pro-Trump still be standing with him now?  

 

My guess is that mostly they would be. Trumpism is only the surface manifestation of a deep rift in the American (and to a lesser extent,  the Western world's) psyche. I can feel there's complex processes of Dao at work here that have only just begun to play out. I suspect our world has become too systemised, too ordered, too mechanical and too homogeneous, and has thus strayed too far from our basic human instinct that revels in conflict and chaos. Although that's not something I personally want,  I can see that's how Dao attempts to keep all life strong and healthy. But I'm certainly not suggesting there's anything healthy about Trump's agenda itself, it is not, only that he is a vehicle for bringing chaos, with the ensuing conflict and disorder, and the pushback against it,  having the potential to eventually bring about a healthy renewal. 

 

 

Edited by Yueya
  • Like 2
  • Thanks 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
11 minutes ago, Yueya said:

 

My guess is that mostly they would be. Trumpism is only the surface manifestation of a deep rift in the American (and to a lesser extend,  the Western world's) psyche. I can feel there's complex processes of Dao at work here that have only just began to play out. I suspect our world has become too systemised, too ordered, too mechanical and too homogeneous, and has thus strayed too far from our basic human instinct that reveals in conflict and chaos. Although that's not something I personally want,  I can see that's how Dao attempts to keep all life strong and healthy. But I'm certainly not suggesting there's anything healthy about Trump's agenda itself, it is not, only that he is a vehicle for bringing chaos, with the ensuing conflict and disorder, and the pushback against it,  having the potential to eventually bring about a healthy renewal. 

 

So yin and yang?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
21 minutes ago, dmattwads said:

 

So yin and yang?

 

Yeah, but in the general sense that everything is a manifestation of yin and yang, and perhaps specifically important in this case, as the interplay of introversion (yin) and extraversion (yang). To my observation, a major underlying causal factor is that our world has become too extraverted, too focused on externals and not enough inner focus on the nature of our human psyche, of genuine inner spiritual connection. That external focus has done wonders for the world materially, but is creating an increasingly soulless place.  I know within my psyche I have an instinct for conflict, yet my practice has shown me I have plenty of conflicting forces within my own psyche to deal with. Until more people realise that our human psyche is fundamentally polarised then this over-externalisation of conflict will continue. And nowhere in the world do people seem less inclined to face up to their own dark shadow than in America, possibly the most extraverted country in the world. And powerfully so. 

  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
12 hours ago, liminal_luke said:

 

I might be bonkers (or worse!) for suggesting that we just ride out this last week or so of Trump´s presidency without the drama of an impeachment proceeding, but there´s another way of looking at it.  It might also be that I wish that all of us, as Americans, could collectively sit down on a metaphorical parkbench somewhere for a second and feel the sun on our faces.  It might be that I´m tired and don´t want the inevitable drama that an impeachment proceeding would inevitably bring.  Or maybe I worry that as a species we´re approaching the beginning of our end and am just deeply despairing and freaked out about pretty much all of it.

 

Ok, yeah...bonkers it is.

 

I'd say there is a season for rest but not in the middle of a war for survival against a  potus of proven evil and a GOP mostly under his spells of never ending lies coupled with dangerous hate, wanton greed, moral and ethical debasement, megalomaniacal  abuses of power, waste, alternate reality of alt-right extremism,  etc. ,etc....along with there being millions of citizens gone  blind in voting for and supporting all the evil trump has cultivated, with many being under a prolonged blitzkrieg of pounding propaganda that misleads an "average"  John or Jane !  (complete with cheering rallies as if they were at football game! )  Granted, the dems are very far from perfect but for anyone to make false equivalences between the two parties is imo and in effect trying to rationalize trumps words and deeds, thus excuse what has gone on) 

Edited by old3bob

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
18 hours ago, dmattwads said:

 

I guess that's why when there was sedition last week against the government of the Untied States and democracy itself you think the biggest threat to democracy is cancel culture?

 

18 hours ago, zerostao said:

I avoid network programming. Don’t watch tv, trying to limit my online time lately too. I see several threats, all serious ones.

I will repeat myself

i see several threats, all serious ones.

 

I see extremists on the far right as a serious threat.

I see extremists on the far left as a serious threat.

I would list more serious threats that I see,

Instead, I will leave this thread.

When someone just talks past another, reading into what one said, instead of carefully reading what was said, the discussion ceases to be a discussion.

Edited by zerostao

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
54 minutes ago, zerostao said:

I see extremists on the far left as a serious threat.

 

Which extremists on the far left do you see that are the same level threat as the MAGA crowd

  • Thanks 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites