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4 hours ago, Taomeow said:

Only some of them are Christians, and most don't complain of anything in the amount in excess of what Americans born here indulge in complaining about, thought the choice of particular areas of dissatisfaction might differ.

 

 

Part of my lineage comes from around Lithuania, but I think they were probably Russian at that time.  In my research I found that many from that area were freethinkers, as they were called, around 1900.  I'll bet your lineage extends through this too.  Do you know anything about that?  

 

 

 

Edited by manitou
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1 hour ago, manitou said:

 

Part of my lineage comes from around Lithuania, but I think they were probably Russian at that time.  In my research I found that many from that area were freethinkers, as they were called, around 1900.  I'll bet your lineage extends through this too.  Do you know anything about that?  

 

 

Right, Lithuania was part of the Russian Empire then.  It changed hands many times, ever since the formidable, powerful and warlike state of Rzeczpospolita (the Polish for the Latin "Res Publica" -- republic), the commonwealth of Poland and Lithuania, once weakened by internal squabbles, was divided between Russian Empire, the Kingdom of Prussia, and the Habsburg Monarchy at the end of the 18th century.  (Yup, European history is all like that.  Colorful.)  As a teenager I used to read, with great fascination, the novels of a famous Polish historical fiction author, Henryk Sienkiewicz, dedicated to the glory days of that forgotten European power.  

 

As for my ancestors, they were all over the place.  I know that a great-great-grandfather was French and a great-great-grandmother eloped with him because both families were up in arms against the union.  But I got interested in all that long-ago family history too late, when my grandmother was already mixing up names, events and periods, so all I know about that ancestor is that his name sounded like a famous French cheese, but I couldn't get the exact spelling out of my grandmother who no longer remembered.

 

What were your ancestors up to in Lithuania?  Any idea?   

Edited by Taomeow

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8 hours ago, old3bob said:

 

I seldom have a problem with morphing off topic here and there when it is civil. (even during uncivil events like we had at the capitol)    Btw. why would a seemingly A-Z , and renaissance kind of sounding guy like your self have a problem with that?   

 

:rolleyes:

 

Dude !  The 'off topic'  thing isnt the point I was trying to make .  

 

Doesn't matter ... forget it ! 

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12 hours ago, Taomeow said:

What were your ancestors up to in Lithuania?  Any idea? 

 

 

No idea at all.  All I know is she immigrated to America, was a dental assistant to my grandfather - at some point in time she was raped by my grandfather, resulting in pregnancy.  My grandfather told my grandmother that his assistant had gotten preggers and wouldn't it be nice if they adopted her baby?  Of course he didn't mention that he was the father.  So they adopted my dad, and raised him until she saw some distinct similarity to her husband and figured it all out.  She finally died in Camarillo State Hospital for the Insane after she set the drapes on fire and tried to burn the house down.

 

Yeah, we've got a bit of color over here too.  Other than that, I'm just fine....:blink:

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12 hours ago, Nungali said:

 

:rolleyes:

 

Dude !  The 'off topic'  thing isnt the point I was trying to make .  

 

Doesn't matter ... forget it ! 

 

if your point is a problem with guns you should know that any safe and rational gun owner has problems with guns being misused as is involved in extremist threats or domestic violence...

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5 hours ago, manitou said:

 

 

No idea at all.  All I know is she immigrated to America, was a dental assistant to my grandfather - at some point in time she was raped by my grandfather, resulting in pregnancy.  My grandfather told my grandmother that his assistant had gotten preggers and wouldn't it be nice if they adopted her baby?  Of course he didn't mention that he was the father.  So they adopted my dad, and raised him until she saw some distinct similarity to her husband and figured it all out.  She finally died in Camarillo State Hospital for the Insane after she set the drapes on fire and tried to burn the house down.

 

Yeah, we've got a bit of color over here too.  Other than that, I'm just fine....:blink:

 

 

OMG !  

 

 

I have been involved with a running debate (on another site ) with this horrible misogynist  from Lithuania  who was complaining about the women there and he himself posted their domestic abuse stats , claiming it was women's fault for the way they treat men. Then he posted  survey results showing how many men there blame women for it , as some type of validation .    All under the guise of some historical BS .  - finally he got banned .

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2 hours ago, old3bob said:

 

if your point is a problem with guns you should know that any safe and rational gun owner has problems with guns being misused as is involved in extremist threats or domestic violence...

 

I know that.  And that wasnt the point .  Its one area where we have VAST cultural differences . 

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19 minutes ago, Nungali said:

 

 

OMG !  

 

 

I have been involved with a running debate (on another site ) with this horrible misogynist  from Lithuania  who was complaining about the women there and he himself posted their domestic abuse stats , claiming it was women's fault for the way they treat men. Then he posted  survey results showing how many men there blame women for it , as some type of validation .    All under the guise of some historical BS .  - finally he got banned .

 

Showing that awful is international.

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We need to loudly broadcast our laws.  Media and politicians should have loudly announced that each vote fraud meant months of jail time and huge fines.  Not that mass fraud happened but if every mail in had the penalty of abuse printed on it, maybe the fact there was little of it, would be easier to accept.

 

Likewise, having a loud speaker announce early and loudly that breaking into the Capital will earn each person months or years in prison.  Their name on a permanent No Fly Zone.  A federal felony that will be on their record their entire life, keeping them from such things as any future gun ownership.   

 

Ink isn't that expensive.  A loud speaker isn't that expensive.  Why weren't these facts being repeatedly blasted to the audience.. cross this line, you're a criminal and will be treated as such.  Though common sense should tell you not to invade the Capitol, maybe some extra stupid people need a reminder, of the why.  

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The newer videos they're showing of the nature of that invading crowd show a very coordinated set of maneuvers.  Strange that they were always hollering something simple, like USA, or some other 3 word chant.  Something that non-English speakers could remember.

 

The nature of that crowd didn't even seem American at all.  It seemed very well trained authoritarian to me.  The cameras from above showed the coordinated moves of the rioters - the really nasty ones - in the front.

 

 The ultimate goal of taking hostages is so very smart and so very Putin.  Is it conceivably possible that the men in this crowd were the same as the mysterious camouflaged soldiers who were completely silent?  

 

If I'm getting way too far out there, someone just give a little yank on the string.

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6 hours ago, Nungali said:

 

I know that.  And that wasnt the point .  Its one area where we have VAST cultural differences . 

 

I imagine it so in the cities but what about out in the boondocks?  It would be helpful if you completed your point or comments.  (Btw. I live in a very low population area which could qualify as the boondocks)

Edited by old3bob

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5 hours ago, thelerner said:

We need to loudly broadcast our laws.  Media and politicians should have loudly announced that each vote fraud meant months of jail time and huge fines.  Not that mass fraud happened but if every mail in had the penalty of abuse printed on it, maybe the fact there was little of it, would be easier to accept.

 

Likewise, having a loud speaker announce early and loudly that breaking into the Capital will earn each person months or years in prison.  Their name on a permanent No Fly Zone.  A federal felony that will be on their record their entire life, keeping them from such things as any future gun ownership.   

 

Ink isn't that expensive.  A loud speaker isn't that expensive.  Why weren't these facts being repeatedly blasted to the audience.. cross this line, you're a criminal and will be treated as such.  Though common sense should tell you not to invade the Capitol, maybe some extra stupid people need a reminder, of the why.  

 

if Blacks, Latino's or other certain minorities had stormed the capitol they probably would have been cut down in mass with very little warning and with gatling guns that fire hundreds (thousands?) of rounds a minute.

Edited by old3bob
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Stuck in the middle of madness.

the next seven days could be stunning

stand strong Lansing, Richmond, all the other state houses.

enter sandman

 

on the ballot in Austin November 2021 — Texit

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(CNN)As terrible as the events of Jan. 6 were -- and I'm on the record warning of "the unimaginable" -- I'm going to repeat what I said after Election Day: It's not over.

 

By Garry Kasparov

"This battle against anti-democratic extremism didn't end when a right-wing mob invaded the United States Capitol and five people died, including one police officer. It didn't end when Twitter and other social media platforms finally muzzled President Donald Trump -- although that was a heavier blow in this fight than most. And it won't end when Joe Biden is inaugurated on January 20.

Beating Trump was an essential step, of course. Four years of his thuggery and demagoguery were enough to bring American democracy to its knees. Four more might have finished it off. Had fewer than 45,000 votes across three key states gone the other way on Election Day, we'd be plunging toward authoritarian rule, and discussing which of Trump's children would take over in 2024.

Narrowly dodging that metaphorical bullet was no protection against the threat of real bullets, as the attack on the Capitol proved. And there will be more violence, especially if the Capitol perpetrators and those who incited them -- starting with the President -- are not held accountable.

 

The correct response is the dispassionate application of the law. Not political persecution, but nor politically motivated leniency, either. We don't have to choose between unity and justice. Avoiding doing the right thing will only prolong the crisis and give aid and comfort to enemies of the state and of the peace. Our Founding Fathers failed to resolve the historical challenge of slavery, passing a bloody Civil War on to future generations. Despite Abraham Lincoln's assassination, Reconstruction allowed the South a "defeat with honor," decades of Jim Crow, and the pernicious Lost Cause mythology that persists today.

Consider the repugnant image of a Trumpist Capitol invader carrying a Confederate flag in a building that Robert E. Lee and Stonewall Jackson only dreamed of conquering. No new mythology should be allowed to sprout from this vile transgression. The worst result would be letting the mutineers off the hook -- and this includes the elected officials who encouraged them, like Sens. Ted Cruz and Josh Hawley and especially President Trump. That they, and scores of other Republicans, continued to attack the integrity of the election even now is beyond the pale.

 

The perpetrators won't become heroes or martyrs if the process of justice is not unduly politicized. It would be a blunder for the left to turn a clear case of criminal justice into a battleground for racial justice, which would help the Trumpist Republicans twist their illegal insurrection into the culture war they crave. White supremacy is a terrible evil of American history, and Trump and his followers' traffic in it is repugnant, but we should not overburden a clear-cut criminal proceeding with the cleansing of sins.

Ted Cruz's fight for the man he once called 'sniveling coward' 

 

History teaches us the cost of well-meaning but shortsighted attempts to sacrifice justice for unity. Russians learned this in the hardest possible way after the fall of the Soviet Union. As I discussed at length in my book, Winter Is Coming, they declined to root out the KGB security state in the interest of national harmony. It would be too traumatic, our leaders said, to expose the countless atrocities the Soviet security forces committed and to punish their authors.

A feeble truth commission was quickly abandoned by President Boris Yeltsin, and soon even the Soviet archives were closed, although not before researchers like Vladimir Bukovsky revealed some of the KGB's atrocities. The KGB's name was changed to the FSB and its members quietly stayed in touch and intact. The result? A mere nine years after the Soviet Union collapsed in 1991, Russia elected a former KGB lieutenant colonel, Vladimir Putin, to the presidency. It was the last meaningful election we ever had. We chose unity and we got dictatorship.

 

America should not make a similar mistake. The truth may hurt, but lies will do far greater damage in the end. Americans should be prepared for a long fight against these anti-democratic forces. The attack on the Capitol has opened every eye; there can be no more feigned ignorance of the crisis.

Many Americans were shocked by how many of their compatriots, including nearly all GOP officials, have been willing to go along with Trump's open assault on the pillars of their open society, from the free press to fair elections. As I warned early on, demagogues don't find radicals to lead, they steadily radicalize their followers one outrage at a time. The culmination, so far, was January 6.

Hemingway wrote in "For Whom the Bell Tolls": "There are many who do not know they are fascists but will find it out when the time comes." The time has come, and we are finding them out. Fortuitously, they are inclined to boast of their transgressions on Instagram and from the Senate floor, which makes them easy to find.

The question is if the will exists to apply the justice they deserve. Failing to do so will not mollify them. They are living in an alternate universe, where 70% of Republican voters say that Republican lawmakers who tried to stop the certification of Joe Biden's win in the 2020 presidential election were "protecting democracy," according to a Quinnipiac poll taken AFTER the assault on the Capitol Trump incited. Seventy-three percent told pollsters they thought Trump, too, was "protecting" democracy.

Perhaps the most ominous number is the 24% of Republican voters who don't accept the results of the election, according to an NPR/PBS NewsHour/Marist survey last month, leaving the question of whether they will accept the results of any election ever again.

Coups aside, this was always the greatest threat of Trump's rhetoric, and a result that will delight dictators like Putin, who are always eager to denigrate democracy and its champions. At its core, democracy is an act of faith, a shared belief that the people can fairly act in the common good by choosing their leaders. Destroying the faith in the system will destroy the American experiment.

 

This is precisely what we are trying to counter at the Renew Democracy Initiative. We are launching a campaign dedicated to the simple phrase, "what democracy means to me," in the hopes of reminding everyone what a luxury it is for every citizen to have a say in the course of their lives and of their nation.

Democracy isn't liberal or conservative, not left or right -- at least it isn't supposed to be. Millions of Americans currently believe that democracy isn't working, or even that it isn't worth saving. The battle to prove them wrong isn't over, it's just begun."

Edited by old3bob
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15 hours ago, zerostao said:

on the ballot in Austin November 2021 — Texit

 

In 2016 a hashtag was trending -- Calexit

 

Waxing Big Brotherly (or Laoziesque?..):

 

Victory is Defeat

Unity is Confrontation

Sickness is Health

 

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2 hours ago, dmattwads said:

 

Wait, what?! I live in Texas, how did I miss that?

I have a few questions myself.

who is commanding a carefully organized synchronized mission of fifty state capitals and the capital in dc being visited by armed protesters?
the fbi already said they are overwhelmed by this threat.

 

I don’t think Trump is the one in command.

 

on Texit, I am predicting it will be on the November 2021 ballot.


 

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3 hours ago, Taomeow said:

 

In 2016 a hashtag was trending -- Calexit

 

Waxing Big Brotherly (or Laoziesque?..):

 

Victory is Defeat

Unity is Confrontation

Sickness is Health

 

The sage is sick of sickness;

therefore, the sage is not sick.

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2 minutes ago, zerostao said:

I have a few questions myself.

who is commanding a carefully organized synchronized mission of fifty state capitals and the capital in dc being visited by armed protesters?
the fbi already said they are overwhelmed by this threat.

 

I don’t think Trump is the one in command.

 

on Texit, I am predicting it will be on the November 2021 ballot.


 

 

Well I'm not totally surprised as this lunatic fringe has been around a long time here.

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13 minutes ago, dmattwads said:

 

Well I'm not totally surprised as this lunatic fringe has been around a long time here.

Extremists exist at opposite ends of the political spectrum.

Edited by zerostao

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16 minutes ago, zerostao said:

Extremists exist at opposite ends of the political spectrum.

 

True, and this would be one of those ends.

 

* I guess the other end of the spectrum would be those rascally state combiners. Like joining Texas and New Mexico. Would that be called New Texaco?

Edited by dmattwads

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17 minutes ago, dmattwads said:

 

True, and this would be one of those ends.

 

* I guess the other end of the spectrum would be those rascally state combiners. Like joining Texas and New Mexico. Would that be called New Texaco?


No way that will happen. Wealthy Texans own a lot of real estate here in NM which doesn’t sit well with a lot of us. 

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1 minute ago, ralis said:


No way that will happen. Wealthy Texans own a lot of real estate here in NM which doesn’t sit well with a lot of us. 

 

A bit of satire ;-)

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I can’t say we are in uncharted waters. There has been an all out open conflict civil war. And in 1950 Harry S Truman gave this message to Congress on the topic of Internal Security.

”Once a government is committed to the principle of silencing the voices of opposition, it has only one way to go, and that is down the path of increasingly repressive measures, until it becomes a source of terror to all its citizens and creates a country where everyone lives in fear.”

 

cancel culture will eventually cancel us all. What’s that saying about, 

“First they came for the...”

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