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It is regrettably seldom discussed that there are many types of psychic absorption or trance. Some of them definitely are impure and thus allow uninvited spiritual entities to attach into the mind that is left weak and exposed. Getting one's mind into a random trance state is a sign of deviation and nothing else (see the first video).

 

Please note that this is exactly the same reason why anyone shouldn't be doing spiritual practices with drugs or alcohol: they make the mind unstable and spirit energetically weak. The exception is when doing cathartic rituals with psychoactive substances, e.g. ayahuasca, under a traditional and grounding supervision.

 

A crash course into Buddhism: Everything is mind. Frequencies of energy are entanglements to Six Lokas and Three Realms.

 

A crash course into Daoism from Buddhist point of view: Pure and safe cultivation in the Daoist sense is only accomplished in the Form and Formless realms, but in practice Form realm is preferred because it gives tangible bliss and purifies the body. The connection between From realms and the three Dantians has been expounded by Master Nan Huai Jin and his student William Bodri in case you need to discover more.

 

Correct instructions need to be followed, so that the proper Dhyana absorption is developed. Other trance realms are in the desire realm, hence automatically tainted with desires and emotional flotsam. In Qigong practices the danger is most pertinent in Spontaneous Qigong because this genre is not readily quiescent, may introduce wild emotions, requires adhering to exact instructions, and teacher's vigilant guidance. Artificial and forced stillness is another sure way to deviation when trying to train the mind.

 

Incorrect psychic absorptions induce deviations in person's energetic wiring, but few are wise enough to realize their mistakes. People chase after energetic sensations and quick shortcut empowerments unaware that these might be signs of short-circuit surging and not correct natural function at all.

 

In the field of psychic powers it's obvious that many people, who dabble while relying on their own prejudiced and warped intuition, exercise spiritual cultivation, but it's the impure spirit of ego and desires. Such deviation attracts codependent relationships with entities that may consciously promise or often unaware to the practitioner provide an easy access to supramundane knowledge and power. (I wish to comment that this is the original reason why both the Western Catholic and Eastern Orthodox Church have waged spiritual warfare against occult practitioners and pagans, although these days much has been said in the defense of the wrongfully persecuted innocents.)

 

A sensible reader might now ask what is the entity business exactly about. Think of a prison. You are bound there within the walls. There are dangerous competing gangs who have antisocial members and individualistic tough guys no one dares to challenge, and the both types are suffering from suppressed desires because they have to spend time imprisoned where their freedom and options are limited. Sometimes a new unaware guy goes through the prison system. There on the food line one of these gang recruiters or unassociated tough guys comes to them and says to them bluntly: Either become my prison prison bitch/punk and receive my protection or the other prisoners will kill you. Next thing you see the new guy dressed on stilt heels, wearing ripped jean shorts and busty tank top, and brandishing a full set of lipstick, mascara, long fake eye lashes, and dyed blonde hair. What prison does to some people is that they discover enjoying being the punk and surviving in that harsh environment in that fashion, so they keep following and justifying the lifestyle. The tragedy part is they remain unaware that they only were originally passing through and do not belong to the prison like the real inmates who scared and lured them into remaining. When the next new guy comes through, the self-realized busty blonde walks to welcome him and chirps: "Hey honey! You better become Bubba's bitch or you end up in the ditch. Want me to welcome you with a hug?"

 

Spoiler

 

 

Don't become anyone's punk or bitch. You are worth more.

 

Strive to realize independence, freedom, and clarity.

 

Don't expect too much, but be humble and skeptical of both yourself and others.

Edited by virtue
poor wording
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Posted (edited)

Here are some quotes by William Bodri. I have bolded and underlined some text for emphasis.


How to Know a Fake Guru When You Meet One

 

Quote

Being able to demonstrate superpowers and teaching the dharma does not necessarily mean one is actually teaching the REAL dharma, or that one is ethical, virtuous, etc. There are lots of dharmas that look like the real dharma, but are not the real thing. Semblance to the real thing, but being "off" where it counts, can lead you astray for many lives. In the CIA this is called disinformation - feed them enough true information so that they'll fall for the bad stuff you put in, and collect big money with outrageous claims. It's done all the time in the spiritual field. See the website for the free Surangama sutra explanation and you'll read where Buddha talked about all the sorts of false spiritual teachers that arise and try to mislead you from the true cultivation path through subtle error.

 

Remember, there are four dhyana before the first dhyana and they are all still in the Desire Realm and that's where a lot of these powers come from. There's the:

 

(1) Desire Realm samadhi, (2) Not-reached-samadhi samadhi, (3) Intermediate samadhi, and (4) the Samadhi that is similar to samadhi. Then, finally, comes the first dhyana achievement! And there are 3 other dhyana besides that, and four formless absorptions, and then the Arhat's enlightenment with remainder! None of these are enlightenment. They're all very high stage, but not enlightenment.

 

Tell me - which of these did Muktanada achieve, or Paramhansa Yogananda, or Han Shan or Osho or Rajneesh or Papaji or Ramakrishna or some of the famous yoga teachers this century? Be careful. Some are high stage, others are not.

 

While people will say anyone who attains the pre-samadhi dhyana and can demonstrate small superpowers is a master, they certainly are not, especially if they exhibit an EXCESS of desire.

 

First, these pre-samadhi stages are not samadhi.

 

Second, even with the first samadhi (dhyana), there are varying levels of achievement and the only true first dhyana is the highest stage of that achievement! So even with the lowly first dhyana, you only REALLY achieve when you're almost through it.

 

Third, samadhi is not enlightenment. No samadhi is enlightenment or liberation. Don't make this mistake. The majority of masters who appear in the world are only at the level of samadhi attainments.

 

You can take anyone and teach them breathing practices and in less than three years they'll have lots of superpowers but without samadhi. It's just a natural function of cultivating chi. However, if they should then start surrounding themselves with money, young girls, 50 Roll Royces, and claim they're enlightened, who's cheating whom?

 

A true master will have elevated conduct, as you see represented in Zen. The mind is pure, desires are less.

 

As Shakyamuni Buddha predicted, during the later ages more and more people will achieve a tiny bit of cultivation and then claim they have achieved the whole thing and will mislead people. They will not discourage deserve adoration but will claim they will take care of you and lead you to liberation. Instant "no responsibility" on your part if you just follow them.

 

This is one reason why I never speak about some of the really great teachings in public, because this type of individual will grab this information, claim it as their own experience (which they don't know about) and then use it to try to cheat others to amass money, power, whatever.

 

For instance, that's why my own teacher will never publicly discuss the stages of opening the jen-mai front chi channel. It's such a low stage, but if you openly talk about it, I guarantee that unscrupulous (or self-deceived) individuals will then grab on to these descriptions, claim the same thing happened to them and then use the information to cheat others.

 

Sound implausible? Don't cheat yourself! It happens all the time.

 

Remember in life that good people tend not to step out and defend people, clean things up, etc. etc. They tend to just want to be left alone, and not make any efforts. They see the world get destroyed by the bad guys but don't step out and do anything about it but keep silent.

 

Evil people, however, will go out of their way to do all sorts of things for money, power, fame, etc. that "good" or "virtuous" people wouldn't dare. Criminals, for instance, have to be smarter than average good people in order to survive. Greedy people also tend not to be lazy. So these are the ones who will seize hold of higher stage teachings to cheat others - not the good people. Think about it.

 

 

Beware of False Gurus

 

Quote

Remember that there are all sorts of stages of cultivation. There are martial arts teachers with 'dirty chi' and no samadhi, there are genuine samadhi masters (usually they have achieved just the 1st dhyana though people think they're enlightened), there are those who've seen the Tao and are at the Bodhisattva bhumis (rare indeed), there are people with semi-samadhi states who can show superpowers (this is just gong-fu but people mistake this for genuine samadhi and mistakenly think the person has the Way or is spiritual), there are gurus with samadhi powers who are actually evil rather than virtuous, and on and on it goes.

 

 

It's simple. Those who cultivate Desire Realm states are bound to be obsessed with unmet sexual urges.

 

Don't offer yourself up as a free grab for impurely cultivated people and entities who would like to molest and abuse you.

Edited by virtue
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Posted (edited)

Good post. The new age is utterly obsessed with activating the pineal gland, and they tout it as a short cut to higher states. Have always thought that was potentially opening people up to stuff they aren't ready for, particularly when they aren't practicing within a lineage and have no spiritual guardians looking after them. 

 

Better by far to take the long route.

Edited by Vajra Fist
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Posted (edited)

Much, perhaps most of what i used to experience as 'waking life', has revealed itself to be mainly a trance state. 

 

Sleepy hypnosis, not awake.  What i used to experience as my own power filled choices, reveal as conditioned hypnotic response to stimulus, not awakened action within co-arising conditions, but programmed responses to stimuli, predictable and arising from far beneath the threshold of local awareness.

 

Much, perhaps most of my early meditation years and seekings and perceived accomplishments, now reveal not as awakening, but as varying states of entranced waking hypnosis sleep. 

 

I am quite wary of trance lately.  Seems to be an epidemic beyond any other known human afflictions, for it often passes for 'wokeness' and unfolds perpetually of its own inertia, beneath the threshold of local awareness.

Edited by silent thunder
expanded last sentence a bit.
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@silent thunder I have felt the same hypnotic quality of life often, but practice makes it easier to discern like you say.

 

@Walker & @freeform Would either of you gentlemen have any particular experience or theoretical knowledge about the 4 Desire Realm dhyana states which are incorrect cultivation? It's very difficult to find explaining material on these side roads, even though they supposedly represent very stable concentration states similar to the correct Form and Formless Realm 8 dhyana states which have classical distinguishing features. My hope is that it would make spotting flawed meditation and false teachers easier, although it isn't good pedagogy to get too instructing with the mistakes instead of just pointing the correct way.

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On 10/03/2020 at 1:00 PM, virtue said:

Would either of you gentlemen have any particular experience or theoretical knowledge about the 4 Desire Realm dhyana states


I haven’t learned these - so not of much help I’m afraid.

 

I do know the various pitfalls on the way to and in the process of the early Jhannas.

 

There is a tendency to ‘lower the bar’ of achievement to have it match one’s experience. True Samadhi is quite rare. True Jhanna is very rare. There are countless mistakes and issues leading up to them.

 

The biggest issue I see in meditators is dullness. I think it’s similar to trance states. It’s a dullness of mind that feels more like a mental sedative and it simulates emptiness. (Emptiness itself is an error)
 

But this isn’t even emptiness - this is more like a numbness - like purposefully shrouding your self awareness in ignorance. So you can’t make anything out - like walking through a murky fog, you don’t recognise your thoughts because they’re shrouded, and you mistake this for emptiness and train yourself to go deeper into this state. 

 

I’ve seen everyone from beginners to very long-term meditators (as well as monks!) go into this state. 
 

One’s Shen needs to be bright and very sharp!

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On 2/14/2020 at 8:30 AM, virtue said:

It is regrettably seldom discussed that there are many types of psychic absorption or trance. Some of them definitely are impure and thus allow uninvited spiritual entities to attach into the mind that is left weak and exposed. Getting one's mind into a random trance state is a sign of deviation and nothing else (see the first video).

 

Please note that this is exactly the same reason why anyone shouldn't be doing spiritual practices with drugs or alcohol: they make the mind unstable and spirit energetically weak. The exception is when doing cathartic rituals with psychoactive substances, e.g. ayahuasca, under a traditional and grounding supervision.

 

A crash course into Buddhism: Everything is mind. Frequencies of energy are entanglements to Six Lokas and Three Realms.

 

A crash course into Daoism from Buddhist point of view: Pure and safe cultivation in the Daoist sense is only accomplished in the Form and Formless realms, but in practice Form realm is preferred because it gives tangible bliss and purifies the body. The connection between From realms and the three Dantians has been expounded by Master Nan Huai Jin and his student William Bodri in case you need to discover more.

 

Correct instructions need to be followed, so that the proper Dhyana absorption is developed. Other trance realms are in the desire realm, hence automatically tainted with desires and emotional flotsam. In Qigong practices the danger is most pertinent in Spontaneous Qigong because this genre is not readily quiescent, may introduce wild emotions, requires adhering to exact instructions, and teacher's vigilant guidance. Artificial and forced stillness is another sure way to deviation when trying to train the mind.

 

Incorrect psychic absorptions induce deviations in person's energetic wiring, but few are wise enough to realize their mistakes. People chase after energetic sensations and quick shortcut empowerments unaware that these might be signs of short-circuit surging and not correct natural function at all.

 

In the field of psychic powers it's obvious that many people, who dabble while relying on their own prejudiced and warped intuition, exercise spiritual cultivation, but it's the impure spirit of ego and desires. Such deviation attracts codependent relationships with entities that may consciously promise or often unaware to the practitioner provide an easy access to supramundane knowledge and power. (I wish to comment that this is the original reason why both the Western Catholic and Eastern Orthodox Church have waged spiritual warfare against occult practitioners and pagans, although these days much has been said in the defense of the wrongfully persecuted innocents.)

 

A sensible reader might now ask what is the entity business exactly about. Think of a prison. You are bound there within the walls. There are dangerous competing gangs who have antisocial members and individualistic tough guys no one dares to challenge, and the both types are suffering from suppressed desires because they have to spend time imprisoned where their freedom and options are limited. Sometimes a new unaware guy goes through the prison system. There on the food line one of these gang recruiters or unassociated tough guys comes to them and says to them bluntly: Either become my prison prison bitch/punk and receive my protection or the other prisoners will kill you. Next thing you see the new guy dressed on stilt heels, wearing ripped jean shorts and busty tank top, and brandishing a full set of lipstick, mascara, long fake eye lashes, and dyed blonde hair. What prison does to some people is that they discover enjoying being the punk and surviving in that harsh environment in that fashion, so they keep following and justifying the lifestyle. The tragedy part is they remain unaware that they only were originally passing through and do not belong to the prison like the real inmates who scared and lured them into remaining. When the next new guy comes through, the self-realized busty blonde walks to welcome him and chirps: "Hey honey! You better become Bubba's bitch or you end up in the ditch. Want me to welcome you with a hug?"

 

  Reveal hidden contents

 

 

Don't become anyone's punk or bitch. You are worth more.

 

Strive to realize independence, freedom, and clarity.

 

Don't expect too much, but be humble and skeptical of both yourself and others.

Very cool. Osho talked about the practice of false shaktipat and giving electric shocks to people by disrupting their chi. Do you know about this

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This article is an extreme practical showcase highlighting the same issues I have tried to describe from theory perspective. Please, everyone read it!

 

On 3/20/2020 at 3:50 PM, Lightseeker said:

Very cool. Osho talked about the practice of false shaktipat and giving electric shocks to people by disrupting their chi. Do you know about this

 

You really are setting up yourself for trouble. Read Josama's story that I linked above. Like you, he toob wanted to have power over others and control them.

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41 minutes ago, virtue said:

 

This article is an extreme practical showcase highlighting the same issues I have tried to describe from theory perspective. Please, everyone read it!

 

 

You really are setting up yourself for trouble. Read Josama's story that I linked above. Like you, he toob wanted to have power over others and control them.

thank you for sharing. that was a very good read..

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A lot of theoretical speculations without actual knowledge. It's a long established Buddhist myth that incorrect meditation practices (aka non-Buddhist methods) lead to hell. 

 

It would serve our spirit much better to go beyond dogmatism. 

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@Cheshire Cat

 

Actual experiential knowledge in these deviation matters is immersed in suffering and thus not recommendable. Warning labels exist to allow us to be wiser without needless pain.

 

You are completely free to dismiss and denounce the advice that I, William Bodri, TDB user Josama, Sifu Jenny Lamb, and others have shared regarding to energy deviations and spirit possession. However, the issue is non-denominational and not limited to Buddhism, Christianity, or Daoism.

 

Long kept cautionary tales and myths exist for a reason: to keep discernment sharp and to not frivolously endanger one's physical and psychological health.
 

I am unsure what you suggest by "going beyond dogmatism" in the context of this thread, but I feel that all what you have said above is reckless and misleading at best.

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I am highlighting these threads separately because there is much important advice and knowledge in both. Energy sickness anyway is very much connected to the topic of deviant psychic trances.

 

If anyone is arguing against the reality and dangers of deviations in spiritual practice, then that person is a complete fool, moron, and loser.

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40 minutes ago, Cheshire Cat said:

A lot of theoretical speculations without actual knowledge. It's a long established Buddhist myth that incorrect meditation practices (aka non-Buddhist methods) lead to hell. 

 

It would serve our spirit much better to go beyond dogmatism. 

Yes I agree. You have an interesting take on siddhis though.. in fact you gave me some good methods to achieve them

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2 minutes ago, virtue said:

 

 

I am highlighting these threads separately because there is much important advice and knowledge in both. Energy sickness anyway is very much connected to the topic of deviant psychic trances.

 

If anyone is arguing against the reality and dangers of deviations in spiritual practice, then that person is a complete fool, moron, and loser.

Yes but knowledge with restraint is the highest way. Many, like you, try to ignore all derivatives of the natural curiosity by dismissing phenomena as deviation. I do think that it is better to be aware of it and exercise discrimination about its worth

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