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old3bob

Trump's form of evil

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1 hour ago, thelerner said:

Dawei did a hell of a lot of work for this site.  Moderation faces the tough job of balancing discipline vs free speech issue. 

While I consider myself an independent, I have a bias towards the left.  So for me its harder to see some of it's craziness and nastiness.  I'll dismiss it as joking or clever, give it the benefit of a doubt.  Its the same with people with bias towards the right.

 

Whats I'm saying is, I didn't like the Talk Trump thread, but it was one thread.  I appreciate the work Dawei spent many years doing.  imo,  We were lucky to have him cause its a thankless job. 

 

 

 

Thelerner, also Apech, ,can vouch that I often asked them to come back to staff to help balance and get a reality check.   I don't think any past admin did the same so often.   I consider those that have been around for a long time to have a great pulse of the site.   Some I asked did not want to accept because they know the beating up they get on staff.  So my thanks to those who decided to get beat up and be on staff.  

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12 minutes ago, dawei said:

So my thanks to those who decided to get beat up and be on staff.  

 

Staff cant get beat up while having a banhammer.  You just ban whoevemer you like whenever you like.

I saw kar3n banning people for vouching dissatisfaction with her actions of banning other people. Like this is some concentration camp with sheep.

Getting banned for questioning or voicing different opinion than a moderator, hmm.
Talk about dictatorship.

People who cant deal with issues in their house, love to discuss the issues in the global world.

Edited by GSmaster
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6 minutes ago, GSmaster said:

 

Staff cant get beat up while having a banhammer.  You just ban whoevemer you like whenever you like.

I saw kar3n banning people for vouching dissatisfaction with her actions of banning other people. Like this is some concentration camp with sheep.

Getting banned for questioning or voicing different opinion than a moderator, hmm.
Talk about dictatorship.

People who cant deal with issues in their house, love to discuss the issues in the global world.

 

Like the 20 people who were told to leave or banned and left to form their own site...  that is more acceptable?

 

You like having a site where only one side of ideas is allowed ?

 

I thought you were more thoughtful than that, GSmaster.

 

You worry about the few bad apples instead of the many good apples thrown away.   

Edited by dawei

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Apologies 3Bob... while I don't particularly like the topic title, the topic is yours although there is no longer allowed two sides to discuss it anymore.   But your idea of 'evil' in Taoism may have something to discuss.  

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no problem, I've never been a stickler about any thread morphing here and there and also coming back to the op.

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I think this thread was a colossal error to say the least, and the insistence of 3bob pushing a banned topic here (and this is coming from me, who participated in the M_ P__ thread) to be flabbergasting and audacious. 

 

Now that we are on the topic of the previous admin and the attacks on dawei, I am here to say that while I did not enjoy the prior admin, I did have respect for some admin, even dawei, in spite of my own history of disenchantment with them. 

 

Dawei for all intents and purposes tried to be fair under his own criteria, and while Sean may argue there's a false equivalence of each side having equal say when the members of the Far Right in this forum were dominating the dialogue to the point that it was no different than Sean's official rule of banning Far Right ideology here. Frankly speaking, aside from ralis--most of us were too exhausted to speak up because the Far Right members loved to gaslight and perpetuate abuse here, especially joeblast with his belligerent  behavior, which was tolerated by Karen and others. We weren't banned under the old admin--we were just exhausted and unsupported. It should also be emphasized that the Far Right bigotry and hate speech here is a false equivalence for the criticisms against them, as none of our leftist views are bad compared to the views from joeblast and windwalker for example.

 

Dawei may say that nobody spoke much under them, but honestly, who would speak up when the main response is to trivialize, belittle, insult, mock, and gaslight?

 

So much for free speech. 

 

I had many issues with the prior admin, especially s1va who was the biggest hypocrite, and how other unethical things went on here such as the unethical posting of full information of a dangerous practice that I will not mention here which I asked to be removed, but instead of respecting the idea that reports are confidential, s1va (and later Karen) made my report public and even later said that I was reported for trolling that thread. 

 

The admin honestly were people whose constant reasoning was to have free speech and balanced dialogue, but it came off more as an Authoritarian demagoguery, and it does not surprise me that most of those former admin (especially those who left) belonged to Jeff's cult. 

 

Those are my criticisms of them. My praise, however, does come in that they did try to keep some semblance of order--although it felt more like martial law in the Philippines under Ferdinand Marcos than it felt like Lee Kuan Yew's Lion City in Singapore. He did try to recruit me as moderator as well and valued all members, even ilovecoffee and Ken Brace, and did try to bring in former banned members because he believed in second chances. 

 

Well, how sad: I tried to defend dawei, but a lot more criticism for the prior admin came out instead... and I genuinely wanted to try to advocate for dawei and the work he did. 

 

Dawei, I hope you can understand that in spite of all the remaining animosity I have for the prior admin and obnoxious members, particularly mods Karen and s1va and the uncouth like joeblast, I do not hold you in ill regard because I want to at least try to look at you fairly and presently rather than holding onto grudges, even if it's obvious I struggle to forgive the prior admin for their transgressions against me and others here. 

Edited by Earl Grey

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29 minutes ago, Earl Grey said:

I think this thread was a colossal error to say the least, and the insistence of 3bob pushing a banned topic here (and this is coming from me, who participated in the M_ P__ thread) to be flabbergasting and audacious. 

 

Now that we are on the topic of the previous admin and the attacks on dawei, I am here to say that while I did not enjoy the prior admin, I did have respect for some admin, even dawei, in spite of my own history of disenchantment with them. 

 

Dawei for all intents and purposes tried to be fair under his own criteria, and while Sean may argue there's a false equivalence of each side having equal say when the members of the Far Right in this forum were dominating the dialogue to the point that it was no different than Sean's official rule of banning Far Right ideology here. Frankly speaking, aside from ralis--most of us were too exhausted to speak up because the Far Right members loved to gaslight and perpetuate abuse here, especially joeblast with his belligerent  behavior, which was tolerated by Karen and others. We weren't banned under the old admin--we were just exhausted and unsupported. It should also be emphasized that the Far Right bigotry and hate speech here is a false equivalence for the criticisms against them, as none of our leftist views are bad compared to the views from joeblast and windwalker for example.

 

Dawei may say that nobody spoke much under them, but honestly, who would speak up when the main response is to trivialize, belittle, insult, mock, and gaslight?

 

So much for free speech. 

 

I had many issues with the prior admin, especially s1va who was the biggest hypocrite, and how other unethical things went on here such as the unethical posting of full information of a dangerous practice that I will not mention here which I asked to be removed, but instead of respecting the idea that reports are confidential, s1va (and later Karen) made my report public and even later said that I was reported for trolling that thread. 

 

The admin honestly were people whose constant reasoning was to have free speech and balanced dialogue, but it came off more as an Authoritarian demagoguery, and it does not surprise me that most of those former admin (especially those who left) belonged to Jeff's cult. 

 

Those are my criticisms of them. My praise, however, does come in that they did try to keep some semblance of order--although it felt more like martial law in the Philippines under Ferdinand Marcos than it felt like Lee Kuan Yew's Lion City in Singapore. He did try to recruit me as moderator as well and valued all members, even ilovecoffee and Ken Brace, and did try to bring in former banned members because he believed in second chances. 

 

Well, how sad: I tried to defend dawei, but a lot more criticism for the prior admin came out instead... and I genuinely wanted to try to advocate for dawei and the work he did. 

 

Dawei, I hope you can understand that in spite of all the remaining animosity I have for the prior admin and obnoxious members, particularly mods Karen and s1va and the uncouth like joeblast, I do not hold you in ill regard because I want to at least try to look at you fairly and presently rather than holding onto grudges, even if it's obvious I struggle to forgive the prior admin for their transgressions against me and others here. 

 

EG... we have never had a run-in on issues... you are a exemplary member.   We can all have our differences and when folks on staff, they tend to become a dart board.  And We may not of made decisions the members agree with and later, I can now realize some decision were not so good.   As Admin, I  become the bulleye.  That is ok.  I always told staff that I will take any hit for their actions.  I was always ready to be the fall guy for anything that happened.  That is the role I agreed to.   

 

Your honest and candid comments are a true testament to your role as a member of great note here.   We have no bad blood between us.    Thank you.  

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4 minutes ago, dawei said:

 

EG... we have never had a run-in on issues... you are a exemplary member.   We can all have our differences and when folks on staff, they tend to become a dart board.  And We may not of made decisions the members agree with and later, I can now realize some decision were not so good.   As Admin, I  become the bulleye.  That is ok.  I always told staff that I will take any hit for their actions.  I was always ready to be the fall guy for anything that happened.  That is the role I agreed to.   

 

Your honest and candid comments are a true testament to your role as a member of great note here.   We have no bad blood between us.    Thank you.  


Likewise. For what it’s worth, I hope when the next forum shift occurs that we can take the good from

you as an individual administrating the forum to the best of your abilities and the relative self-discipline on this forum.

 

If it were up to me, though, I would close this hyper political and any M_ P___ thread immediately and no dialogue whatsoever. But that’s just me.

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46 minutes ago, Earl Grey said:

I do not hold you in ill regard because I want to at least try to look at you fairly and presently rather than holding onto grudges, even if it's obvious I struggle to forgive the prior admin for their transgressions against me and others here. 

 

Ok, on re-reading this... Im not sure what transgressions were against you specifically but I will say I'm sorry if it felt out of character with the forum.   I am sure others have similar statements to make that that is fine.   But I like you and don't want past staff action to appear to convey you are not valued. 

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8 minutes ago, Earl Grey said:


Likewise. For what it’s worth, I hope when the next forum shift occurs that we can take the good from

you as an individual administrating the forum to the best of your abilities and the relative self-discipline on this forum.

 

If it were up to me, though, I would close this hyper political and any M_ P___ thread immediately and no dialogue whatsoever. But that’s just me.

 

Your foresight is very telling...   Sean and I were recently discussing this...  its not an easy decision for a forum to close off this or that.  Well, it can be but we will see. 

Edited by dawei
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3 minutes ago, dawei said:

 

Ok, on re-reading this... Im not sure what transgressions were against you specifically but I will say I'm sorry if it felt out of character with the forum.   I am sure others have similar statements to make that that is fine.   But I like you and don't want past staff action to appear to convey you are not valued. 


I will elaborate later. It’s 2020 and I’d like to look forward as well, but this will be helpful for burying the hatchet with finality.

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2 minutes ago, dawei said:

 

Your foresight is very telling...   Sean and I were recently discussing this...  its not an easy decision for a forum to close off this or that.  Well, it can be but we will see. 


One can hope because we would love to end conflicts and wars and focus on why we’re really on this forum.

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5 hours ago, dawei said:

topic is yours

 

???  Imagine someone posting a video how he is defecating publicly on the front page of the website you visit.

This thread is worst kind of defecation, the guy who is mentall ill and suffering from parasitic larvae and phobia hallucinations is creating threads, great. Threads like this make me want to leave this place and never ever come back.

 

6 hours ago, dawei said:

only one side of ideas is allowed

 

I like when there are different or even conflicting ideas.

What I dont like is abuse of moderator power for selfish reasons. Like the guy getting banned for voicing dissatisfaction over my suspension. 

I dont like when people who are mentall ill are allowed to post. Esoteric forums are limelight for those that have lost their sanity. 

I dont like liars, scammers, and scamgong artists.

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36 minutes ago, Earl Grey said:


I will elaborate later. It’s 2020 and I’d like to look forward as well, but this will be helpful for burying the hatchet with finality.

damn right.  Its 2020.  I see the board sliding bit by bit into negativity.

 

I'm asking people, be who you are, but maybe think twice before getting nasty.  God knows I edit out my insults against you Bums all the time.  Lets let the past lie and try to be a little nicer.  Back to being a community. 

 

When we do go negative, try to throw something positive out there, in another thread.  And maybe let the negative threads die a little faster after everyone has had there say.  Too often we are dogs chasing there own tail. 

Edited by thelerner
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From chapter 42:

"...What another has taught let me repeat:
"A man of violence will come to a violent end."
Whoever said this can be my teacher and my father."

 

Edited by old3bob

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13 hours ago, dawei said:

 

When Off-Grid was opened, it came with a lot of explanation.   Like don't come in if you can't accept the heat, etc.   I don't recall you posting in there to make such judgement.

 

I consulted with Sean numerous times through the years, I don't recall you being a part of those discussions.

 

I can easily moderate with the direction given but there was really little given, except with the left was wildly cursing he said to let it happen... I then allowed that on the right.  So,  It was dominated by the left and then shifted to the right.   I don't recall you raising a concern at the time.

 

I said it was a kind of experiment and I accept it went wrong.   There were four on staff constantly talking about it.   And you can't get over it yet?    

 

 

 

 

When Off-Grid was opened, it came with a lot of explanation.   Like don't come in if you can't accept the heat, etc.   I don't recall you posting in there to make such judgement.

 

answer:  This is so very slippery of you.  Trying to lessen my credibility while making like the problem was in an isolated area.

I never posted in Off-Grid, why would I?  I suspect the vast majority here never did either. It was crap.  The heavy-handed right-wing moderation was sitewide, not just in Off-Grid.

 

I consulted with Sean numerous times through the years, I don't recall you being a part of those discussions.

 

Answer: Noting my answer above,  the problem was that the biased right-wing harassment was everywhere in the TDB at that time because you allowed it to be.  Not just in one or two specific locations. The reason I did not have discussions about it with you was because the atmosphere was so horrendous here that after a week or so I went into lurk mode.  This is a great library here but interacting with you and your moderators was unacceptable.  I suspect I was not the only one that did this.

 

I can easily moderate with the direction given but there was really little given, except with the left was wildly cursing he said to let it happen... I then allowed that on the right.  So,  It was dominated by the left and then shifted to the right.   I don't recall you raising a concern at the time.

 

Answer:  Again, you are trying to do isolations to cover your rear and attack others' credibility, in this case mine, rather than accepting responsibility.  I am amazed at how so many don't see how slick you are.  There is an idea!  I think that from now on my nick-name for you is going to be "slick".  What do you think?

 

I said it was a kind of experiment and I accept it went wrong.   There were four on staff constantly talking about it.   And you can't get over it yet?   

 

Answer:I am sure someone can look this up.  But once when you were questioned about how things were going sideways You said "sean lets me do whatever I want" I think that is an exact quote, if not, it is damn close.  Experiment gone wrong, are you kidding me?  You went wrong because of your arrogance at the time.  As for getting over it?  I will get over it when you stop being a very smooth politician, and take full responsibility, eh? slick!

Edited by Sramana
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12 hours ago, GSmaster said:

 

???  Imagine someone posting a video how he is defecating publicly on the front page of the website you visit.

This thread is worst kind of defecation, the guy who is mentall ill and suffering from parasitic larvae and phobia hallucinations is creating threads, great. Threads like this make me want to leave this place and never ever come back.

 

 

I like when there are different or even conflicting ideas.

What I dont like is abuse of moderator power for selfish reasons. Like the guy getting banned for voicing dissatisfaction over my suspension. 

I dont like when people who are mentall ill are allowed to post. Esoteric forums are limelight for those that have lost their sanity. 

I dont like liars, scammers, and scamgong artists.

 

It is usually much more than meets the eye regard staff decisions and members know about 20%... but I hear you. thanks.

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6 hours ago, Sramana said:

When Off-Grid was opened, it came with a lot of explanation.   Like don't come in if you can't accept the heat, etc.   I don't recall you posting in there to make such judgement.

 

answer:  This is so very slippery of you.  Trying to lessen my credibility while making like the problem was in an isolated area.

I never posted in Off-Grid, why would I?  I suspect the vast majority here never did either. It was crap.  The heavy-handed right-wing moderation was sitewide, not just in Off-Grid.

 

I consulted with Sean numerous times through the years, I don't recall you being a part of those discussions.

 

Answer: Noting my answer above,  the problem was that the biased right-wing harassment was everywhere in the TDB at that time because you allowed it to be.  Not just in one or two specific locations. The reason I did not have discussions about it with you was because the atmosphere was so horrendous here that after a week or so I went into lurk mode.  This is a great library here but interacting with you and your moderators was unacceptable.  I suspect I was not the only one that did this.

 

I can easily moderate with the direction given but there was really little given, except with the left was wildly cursing he said to let it happen... I then allowed that on the right.  So,  It was dominated by the left and then shifted to the right.   I don't recall you raising a concern at the time.

 

Answer:  Again, you are trying to do isolations to cover your rear and attack others' credibility, in this case mine, rather than accepting responsibility.  I am amazed at how so many don't see how slick you are.  There is an idea!  I think that from now on my nick-name for you is going to be "slick".  What do you think?

 

I said it was a kind of experiment and I accept it went wrong.   There were four on staff constantly talking about it.   And you can't get over it yet?   

 

Answer:I am sure someone can look this up.  But once when you were questioned about how things were going sideways You said "sean lets me do whatever I want" I think that is an exact quote, if not, it is damn close.  Experiment gone wrong, are you kidding me?  You went wrong because of your arrogance at the time.  As for getting over it?  I will get over it when you stop being a very smooth politician, and take full responsibility, eh? slick!

 

Everybody has an answer now a days  :)

 

 

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and I hope for tolerance cause thinking or hoping other's will change is usually fruitless. 

 

often the best we can do is state our piece, walk away and try not to step in glue or chase our tails

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16 hours ago, dawei said:

 

Everybody has an answer now a days  :)

 

 

:)

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On 1/7/2020 at 3:45 PM, old3bob said:

Thanks Dawei, I read the first one listed which had some good points but was kind of convoluted in wording and speculations...

Didn't get to the second one yet...

 

Anyway if we hear about people getting killed in say a hurricane or an earthquake most would say how terrible, unfortunate and sad but not evil.  (as in what an evil earthquake)  But when people are killed by a willfully pre-meditated malicious and or greedy act by another person then that is most often seen as and called evil.  (which is the way I see it and would also include such acts by the mostly invisible astral beings of evil intent that also exist besides the positive and helpful ones)

 

 I got through the two and the second one seems the more original, written about 40 years earlier.   The first cites them quite a bit. 

 

 

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On 10/1/2020 at 1:47 PM, GSmaster said:

 

Staff cant get beat up while having a banhammer.  

 

Oh, I think they can.  Not literally.  Few disgruntled members will go to the effort, or legal risk, of actually seeking out staff members and physically harming them.  But, contrary to the childhood refrain, words can hurt -- sometimes more than sticks and stones. 

 

Your post suggests that moderators would just ban anyone who dared cross them.  They could, I suppose, but mostly they haven´t.  

 

I love to weigh in from the sidelines about moderation issues but I will never be a moderator.  I´m too conflict-averse for a job that would be put me at the center of a hell of a lot of conflict.

 

  

Edited by liminal_luke

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