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Zork

Mass shootings

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3 hours ago, ralis said:

The shooting in El Paso today left twenty innocent persons dead. The terrorist is an alt-right, white nationalist neo-Nazi. 

I read that this was the 249th incident this year. Is that true?

How the f*ck do you manage to have so many shootings in a year? There are places in the world where there is a huge gun concentration(sometimes illegal) and no mass shootings of that type.

 

It goes beyond gun control. Something is really wrong on your society in many levels.

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2 minutes ago, Zork said:

I read that this was the 249th incident this year. Is that true?

How the f*ck do you manage to have so many shootings in a year? There are places in the world where there is a huge gun concentration(sometimes illegal) and no mass shootings of that type.

 

It goes beyond gun control. Something is really wrong on your society in many levels.

 

This is supported by classic sociological theory. One of the founding fathers, Emil Durkheim, wrote about how the number of suicides in society reflected more on society than the individuals who committed suicide. Unsurprisingly, the same can apply to homicides and drug use, as well as the criminalization of many things from sexuality to the commercialization of mental health and the lack of rehabilitation in the justice system.

 

 

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The problem in the US is that people hide behind the constitution to keep carrying weapons ignoring the fact that it was written at a time when direct democracy could be a thing.

 

Now a federation of 50 states with a huge bureaucratic system has no use for the second ammendment.

I mean realistically how the bleep will someone in the west coast or the rockies defend the government in D.C. by carrying weapons?

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13 minutes ago, rideforever said:

nnn.png

 

 

 

 

https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2019/01/03/5-facts-about-crime-in-the-u-s/

 

"Using the FBI numbers, the violent crime rate fell 49% between 1993 and 2017"

 

"Property crime has declined significantly over the long term. Like the violent crime rate, the U.S. property crime rate today is far below its peak level. FBI data show that the rate fell by 50% between 1993 and 2017"

 

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Well MM you can see the graph for yourself above, it comes from the Stanford Geospatial Centre apparently.
So, what does it mean ?
Who is right ?  Who gets to laugh at the other person ?
If you really wish to be intelligent you have to assemble all these different statistics and ideas, and assemble a wider understanding of the issue.  It's not about winning.  Nor is it about laughing.  Nor about picking at people or fault finding.
It is simply about being honest enough and smart enough to see the different angles and come to an understanding.  Often people say things that don't seem right, but on further investigation you can see "where they're coming from".
 

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2 minutes ago, rideforever said:

Well MM you can see the graph for yourself above, it comes from the Stanford Geospatial Centre apparently.
So, what does it mean ?
Who is right ?  Who gets to laugh at the other person ?
If you really wish to be intelligent you have to assemble all these different statistics and ideas, and assemble a wider understanding of the issue.  It's not about winning.  Nor is it about laughing.  Nor about picking at people or fault finding.
It is simply about being honest enough and smart enough to see the different angles and come to an understanding.  Often people say things that don't seem right, but on further investigation you can see "where they're coming from".
 

 

The FBI is right, that violent crime (OVERALL) is down.

 

Mass shootings might be up, but the FBI isn't wrong in the terms of overall violent crime decreasing.

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14 minutes ago, MildMouse23 said:

 

The FBI is right, that violent crime (OVERALL) is down.

 

Mass shootings might be up, but the FBI isn't wrong in the terms of overall violent crime decreasing.

 

Another mass killing last night in Dayton Ohio which left nine people dead. The El Paso terrorist was using an AR 15 assault rifle and my guess is the Dayton Ohio terrorist used the same weapon. Most have no idea as to what damage an AR- 15 which is a modification of a M-16 shells do to a body. The gun loving right wing will be sending out "thoughts and prayers." Obviously, "thoughts and prayers" are not putting an end to senseless alt-right terrorism!

 

https://www.wired.com/2016/06/ar-15-can-human-body/

 

Quote

Compare the damage an AR-15 and a 9mm handgun can do to the human body: ‚ÄúOne looks like a grenade went off in there,‚ÄĚ says¬†Peter Rhee, a trauma surgeon at the University of Arizona. ‚ÄúThe other looks like a bad knife cut.‚ÄĚ

 

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12 hours ago, ralis said:

 

You are correct! There is a lot of propaganda promulgated by Jonah Goldberg, Rush Limbaugh et al., that fascism is a leftist movement. National Socialism (Nationalsozialismus) is confusing because of the term socialist being used. The Nazi's were luring left wing socialists to the Nazi party by using the new economic prosperity to the party's advantage. If one refused to join then work camps were the destination.

 

Citations from Wikipedia are questionable at best!

 

For background on this, Ian Kershaw's well written researched Volume 1 "Hubris" goes into detail as to why Hitler hated communists, socialists and so forth. I think it is on page 46.

 

I sense a ban coming soon since Sean has been very clear as to what he will tolerate on this site.

 

The shooting in El Paso today left twenty innocent persons dead. The terrorist is an alt-right, white nationalist neo-Nazi. 

 

8 hours ago, Zork said:

I read that this was the 249th incident this year. Is that true?

How the f*ck do you manage to have so many shootings in a year? There are places in the world where there is a huge gun concentration(sometimes illegal) and no mass shootings of that type.

 

It goes beyond gun control. Something is really wrong on your society in many levels.

 

1 hour ago, MildMouse23 said:

 

The FBI is right, that violent crime (OVERALL) is down.

 

Mass shootings might be up, but the FBI isn't wrong in the terms of overall violent crime decreasing.

 

Guys, this just in over in Ohio...

 

https://www.npr.org/2019/08/04/747989695/9-killed-at-least-16-injured-in-shooting-in-dayton-ohio

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4 minutes ago, Zork said:

Something isn't right.

 

The question I have is ...

 

How and when did use of a gun become a viable mode of expression?

 

I mean, we had to learn this somewhere.

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1 minute ago, OldDog said:

I mean, we had to learn this somewhere.

Media, movies and culture in general.

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5 minutes ago, OldDog said:

How and when did use of a gun become a viable mode of expression?

 

Shortly after it was invented, I imagine..

 

:recalling a scene from an historically inaccurate depiction of Cesare Borgia receiving a gun from da Vinci:

 

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Posted (edited)

I'm with Zork on this one.

 

The whole issue of gun violence would have been obviated had they never been invented ... But then we'd be talking about knife violence, or some such. There have been incidents of mass stabbings.

 

No, the root of the problem lies in what culture/society has permitted/promoted.

Edited by OldDog
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Yeah! 'Shooter' style games suck. Mani mentioned them in this post, too.. 

 

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2 hours ago, MildMouse23 said:

 

The FBI is right, that violent crime (OVERALL) is down.

 

Mass shootings might be up, but the FBI isn't wrong in the terms of overall violent crime decreasing.

 

The statistics are for reported crimes and the article said that most crimes are not reported.  So the FBI is only right about those reported.  

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Hmm.. I play video games (mostly halo), and I've never shot a gun in my life - unless you count those old nerf guns with the suction cup projectiles.

 

 

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2 minutes ago, Zork said:

Media, movies and culture in general.

 

When there's a majority of society being exposed to the same, and a high percentage not swayed by some of the inherent fantastical contents by having enough common sense and moral aptitude to be able to exercise discernment, then the perversions of, and subsequent acting upon such by a minority necessitates further scrutiny. Personal responsibility is paramount because thats where the source of seeking understanding of motives lies, more so where significant discrepancies are noted. Looking into these discrepancies may clarify why some are unable to keep certain destructive attributes from taking over their personalities. Their rage can be suddenly triggered by something totally random and trivial. Usually preceded by some fundamental neurosis that keeps the potential for destruction very much in play in the background, just waiting for that one moment where all the triggers seem to go off at the same time. 

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5 minutes ago, dawei said:

 

The statistics are for reported crimes and the article said that most crimes are not reported.  So the FBI is only right about those reported.  

 

https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2019/01/03/5-facts-about-crime-in-the-u-s/

 

Violent crime in the U.S. has fallen sharply over the past quarter century. 

 

...

 

annual survey of more than 90,000 households conducted by the Bureau of Justice Statistics, which asks Americans ages 12 and older whether they were victims of crime, regardless of whether they reported those crimes to the police.

 

 

......

 

between 1993 and 2017. Using the BJS data, the rate fell 74% during that span.

 

...

 

Property crime has declined significantly over the long term. Like the violent crime rate, the U.S. property crime rate today is far below its peak level. ... 1993 and 2017 ... BJS reports a decline of 69% during that span. Property crime includes offenses such as burglary, theft and motor vehicle theft, and it is generally far more common than violent crime.

 

 

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9 minutes ago, futuredaze said:

1. With the Trump-Russia thing having turned into an obvious lie, it is clear that it is the mainstream media that are the real conspiracy theorists.  Not to mention the whole "Iraq has weapons of mass destruction" nonsense and all the other lies they have pushed.  Conspiracies are a part of history.  Check out the Cataline conspiracies in ancient Rome, for instance... Nothing new.

 

2. Read Aristotle.  There are people who speak and think using rhetoric (feelings) and those who utilize dialectic (facts and information).  Of course, everyone has emotions, but some people formulate their opinions from dialectic.

 

3.  Universities are generally left-leaning.  From what I've gathered, they used to be not so much, but in the last 30-40 years, they have become progressively moreso.  Read about "the long  march through the institutions" which originated from the writings of Gramsci I believe  (I may be mixing up my Commies).  The Commies couldn't get the Russian-style revolution they wanted, so they tried to infiltrate their ideologies through art, the education system, the media, etc.  Thank God for the internet.  They will lose.  Lies are not sustainable.

 

4. Being intelligent does not mean you are right.  Sociopaths tend to be very intelligent, but are total liars, selfish assholes who only serve their own desires.  There are many creative genuises who are plagued by mental delusions and psychoses.

 

 

Looking at what works in practice, the Nordic countries are very far left.   They have some of the most well educated populaces on earth, the highest quality of life, and the least corrupt governments.  They provide socialized housing, healthcare, education, and amazing welfare and social safety nets for their citizens.

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5 minutes ago, MildMouse23 said:

 

https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2019/01/03/5-facts-about-crime-in-the-u-s/

 

Violent crime in the U.S. has fallen sharply over the past quarter century. 

 

...

 

annual survey of more than 90,000 households conducted by the Bureau of Justice Statistics, which asks Americans ages 12 and older whether they were victims of crime, regardless of whether they reported those crimes to the police.

 

 

......

 

between 1993 and 2017. Using the BJS data, the rate fell 74% during that span.

 

...

 

Property crime has declined significantly over the long term. Like the violent crime rate, the U.S. property crime rate today is far below its peak level. ... 1993 and 2017 ... BJS reports a decline of 69% during that span. Property crime includes offenses such as burglary, theft and motor vehicle theft, and it is generally far more common than violent crime.

 

 

 

I'm not doubting the statistics they have at hand, only pointing out what their dataset is.   Hospital data can be used too.  It tends to show higher numbers but also a decline.  

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2 hours ago, ralis said:

The El Paso terrorist was using an AR 15 assault rifle and my guess is the Dayton Ohio terrorist used the same weapon. 

 

I saw reports saying it was a .223 rifle. 

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5 minutes ago, dawei said:

 

I saw reports saying it was a .223 rifle. 

 

This was released in regard to the Dayton shooting. 

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