Rara

Jing to Qi - a Technical Question

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I have often seen it said that we transform Jing to Qi and Qi to Shen. I want to focus on the first part in this thread.

 

I used to use my terms loosely, so for example, if I was feeling eratic or anxious, I would say my "qi is all over the place"

 

I am now starting to think that the correct term is "jing". Although I've seen it described as "sexual energy", surely it relates to any form of energy that can have great detrimental effect if not controlled? i.e Anything from compulsive masturbation/sex to panic attacks.

 

When we meditate, we foucus on the lower dan tien to send the jing there, and store/convert it into qi. Am I right in this first part of the theory?

 

Thanks all :)

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Analogies recently used:

 

qi: money in your wallet to use at any given time.

 

jing: your savings, when what you have on hand is not enough.

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18 hours ago, Rara said:

I have often seen it said that we transform Jing to Qi and Qi to Shen. I want to focus on the first part in this thread.

 

I used to use my terms loosely, so for example, if I was feeling eratic or anxious, I would say my "qi is all over the place"

 

I am now starting to think that the correct term is "jing". Although I've seen it described as "sexual energy", surely it relates to any form of energy that can have great detrimental effect if not controlled? i.e Anything from compulsive masturbation/sex to panic attacks.

 

When we meditate, we foucus on the lower dan tien to send the jing there, and store/convert it into qi. Am I right in this first part of the theory?

 

Thanks all :)

Jing is the energy that makes up the body, all its liquids etc. (the sexual fluids are only one part of it)

Qi is the energy that moves it.

 

the terms you use are alchemical....which means that in alchemy one works only with the pre-heaven chi and jing (which repairs the post-heaven jing and chi). But since not many teach the full alchemical method and all the books that are on the market about neidan are the modern nothern method (which is watered down) you should read some of these.

first you need to "lay the foundations" (which means replenishing the yuan stuff in alchemy.....though in modern times it often means just using a little qi gong to balance the body).

 

Look into "daoist internal mastery" from Wang Liping

"white moon on the mountain peak" from Damo Mitchell

"neidan for everyone" forgot the author

all of these books teach only watered down forms of alchemy but better than nothing

 

best

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23 hours ago, Rara said:

I have often seen it said that we transform Jing to Qi and Qi to Shen. I want to focus on the first part in this thread.

 

I used to use my terms loosely, so for example, if I was feeling eratic or anxious, I would say my "qi is all over the place"

 

I am now starting to think that the correct term is "jing". Although I've seen it described as "sexual energy", surely it relates to any form of energy that can have great detrimental effect if not controlled? i.e Anything from compulsive masturbation/sex to panic attacks.

 

When we meditate, we foucus on the lower dan tien to send the jing there, and store/convert it into qi. Am I right in this first part of the theory?

 

Thanks all :)

yang jing = yin qi

yin jing = fluids

yang qi = ionized lecithin neurohormones creating yin shen

yin shen when "turned around" = yang shen = yuan jing

what was it? 1 year of 6 hours of full lotus meditation a day - with celibacy - then restores the Yuan Jing back to a 16 year old male - and that then activates the Yuan Qi.

 

Read the book "Taoist Yoga: alchemy and immortality" for details - it's free online.

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5 hours ago, MIchael80 said:

Jing is the energy that makes up the body, all its liquids etc. (the sexual fluids are only one part of it)

Qi is the energy that moves it.

 

the terms you use are alchemical....which means that in alchemy one works only with the pre-heaven chi and jing (which repairs the post-heaven jing and chi). But since not many teach the full alchemical method and all the books that are on the market about neidan are the modern nothern method (which is watered down) you should read some of these.

first you need to "lay the foundations" (which means replenishing the yuan stuff in alchemy.....though in modern times it often means just using a little qi gong to balance the body).

 

Look into "daoist internal mastery" from Wang Liping

"white moon on the mountain peak" from Damo Mitchell

"neidan for everyone" forgot the author

all of these books teach only watered down forms of alchemy but better than nothing

 

best

 

Thanks. In fact, it's something I expect to learn more of first hand, than reading books.

 

So basically, my understanding wasn't quite correct, no? I'm aware that the qi is stored in the LDT, and builds with meditation/neidan. What is happening with the jing or all the crazy stuff that settles over time during the meditation?

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23 hours ago, Earl Grey said:

Analogies recently used:

 

qi: money in your wallet to use at any given time.

 

jing: your savings, when what you have on hand is not enough.

 

And thus work is done with the savings to put into the wallet? Building up that bank and so forth?

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Just now, Rara said:

 

And thus work is done with the savings to put into the wallet? Building up that bank and so forth?

 

Before you can have savings, you must have some money on hand.

 

We start with some jing even without qi awareness. 

 

As your qi capacity increases, as in what's in your wallet, you can store more as jing--at least that's what I've been told. 

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On 8/1/2019 at 8:25 AM, Rara said:

I have often seen it said that we transform Jing to Qi and Qi to Shen. I want to focus on the first part in this thread.

 

I used to use my terms loosely, so for example, if I was feeling eratic or anxious, I would say my "qi is all over the place"

 

I am now starting to think that the correct term is "jing". Although I've seen it described as "sexual energy", surely it relates to any form of energy that can have great detrimental effect if not controlled? i.e Anything from compulsive masturbation/sex to panic attacks.

Jing to Qi happens when you deliberately start qi cultivation. What we are doing is essentially increasing the vibrational frequency of the jing and converting it to qi by the method of cultivation we choose. There are pre-heaven and post-heaven energies. The pre-heaven stuff we are born with and cannot be increased, it keeps decreasing until it dissipates (when the body dies). The post-heaven stuff comes from food and environment. 

On 8/1/2019 at 8:25 AM, Rara said:

When we meditate, we foucus on the lower dan tien to send the jing there, and store/convert it into qi. Am I right in this first part of the theory?

No. We sink the Qi and drop it into/store it in the lower dan tien. 

Then there is Jin (also called jing by some traditions), which is generated by burning the qi and storing it in the bone marrow throughout your skeleton. This is akin to horse power generated by burning gasoline. The more we can condense the qi, the greater the jin we accrue and store in the marrows. This gives us more "power". The process by which we can get to this "creating and storing jin" is emptiness. We have to drop literally everything. Let go of all concepts, all thought, etc etc. That is when we start vibrating our qi at an even higher frequency to become shen or spirit.

 

But this doesn't mean that we don't already have Qi, Jing and Shen. We are born with them already. We are not necessarily making "new" stuff. We are uncovering what we already have, through the process of meditation and systematic cultivation. 

 

The way I understand it is, jing, qi and shen are all essentially part of the same continuum. They are not "different" substances. They are just different vibrational frequencies of the same energy. Eventually it becomes apparent (via direct experience) that there is only one energy, and every "thing" is that same energy vibrating in different frequencies. 

 

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Your understanding of what jing and qi is will be changing with your practice, as well as jing-qi transformation and the role of xiatian/dantian. Best is not to think about theory too much and practice more. It is the practice that will give you the answers.

 

To make it more clear, xiatian/dantian changes with practice, as well as its role in the process of transformation. With this, there is no one definitive answer to your and similar questions because the answers are dependent on your actual level of practice.

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1 hour ago, dwai said:

The way I understand it is, jing, qi and shen are all essentially part of the same continuum. They are not "different" substances

 

"Jing" has a few different meanings depending on context.

 

If we consider Jing to be the Yin (substance) source of Qi, and Qi is Yang (movement) - then Jing in that context is the physical polarities from which movement (Qi) arise.

 

Inherited polarities, like Lungs moving air.

Acquired polarities, like intake of salt, which create temporary or 'moving' polarities.

 

In medical texts, Jing is clear body fluids, especially "hormones", including those in blood.

 

Changing hormones (Jing) changes movements and actions (Qi) and produces spirit (Shen).

 

Cultivation texts mix these contexts drawing from both philosophical and medical sources.

 

 

 

 

 

-VonKrankenhaus

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Posted (edited)
7 hours ago, vonkrankenhaus said:

 

"Jing" has a few different meanings depending on context.

 

If we consider Jing to be the Yin (substance) source of Qi, and Qi is Yang (movement) - then Jing in that context is the physical polarities from which movement (Qi) arise.

 

Inherited polarities, like Lungs moving air.

Acquired polarities, like intake of salt, which create temporary or 'moving' polarities.

 

In medical texts, Jing is clear body fluids, especially "hormones", including those in blood.

 

Changing hormones (Jing) changes movements and actions (Qi) and produces spirit (Shen).

 

Cultivation texts mix these contexts drawing from both philosophical and medical sources.

 

 

 

 

 

-VonKrankenhaus

 

Actually in Daoist Neidan "yin qi" is considered to be without substance while "yang qi" is considered to be with substance.

 

So John Chang makes this point - that it is the yin qi that leaves the body but the amount of qi that leaves the body is dependent on how much yang qi is stored up. Then when yang meets yin there is an "explosion" - which is the Yuan Qi being created.

 

So then in Neidan - the yang qi is sublimated but then purified via the third eye and heart by going back down the front - after the yang qi builds up in the skull. So then as a substance it is then swallowed - after it flows out of the sinus cavity from out of the skull. Then the qi is absorbed back into the intestines where it is stored.

 

So yin qi is tied to the blood while yang qi is tied to the cerebrospinal fluid. So then the pineal gland transfers the qi from the blood (yin qi) into the qi of the cerebrospinal fluid (Yang qi).

 

 

Edited by voidisyinyang

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If a person didn't know yin yang or qi.  Just knew English.  Would it be possible to have simple clear instructions on how to convert sexual energy into greater vitality? 

 

Not that it would be easy, but instruction on the doing without Eastern jargon?

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Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, voidisyinyang said:

Actually in Daoist Neidan "yin qi" is considered to be without substance while "yang qi" is considered to be with substance.

 

That is a reversal - like the insides of the trigrams for Fire and Water.

And like 4 Emblems - YinYang of Yin, YinYang of Yang, etc.

 

At the "Supreme" (obvious, total) level of the TaiJi, substance and stasis are Yin and movement and energy are Yang.

 

 

 

 

-VonKrankenhaus

TAIJIzhou.png

Edited by vonkrankenhaus

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, thelerner said:

If a person didn't know yin yang or qi.  Just knew English.  Would it be possible to have simple clear instructions on how to convert sexual energy into greater vitality? 

 

Yes.

 

Eat food.

 

Do not have sex or think about sex, and get involve in other thinking and discernments instead.

 

This conserves hormone precursors for use as neurotransmitters, melatonin, etc, and not androgen type hormones of sex actions.

 

Sexual actions are costly in structure and metabolism resources.

 

Thinkings use the same basic materials.

Another way is to go opposite and develop increased capacity of both functions.

 

But you will find the environment and "food" limits this.

 

So that is why this science was developed about use of resources.

 

 

 

 

 

-VonKrankenhaus

Edited by vonkrankenhaus
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It seems that in Neidan,  Jing to Qi,is 精 to 炁 (not 气).

Some schools of Neidan call Jing as Yuan Jing (元精),  why they do not call it "sexual energy" (性精)?

 

 

 

 

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Posted (edited)
45 minutes ago, Shubin said:

 

Some schools of Neidan call Jing as Yuan Jing (元精),  why they do not call it "sexual energy" (性精)?

 

 

 

 

I believe voidisyinyang has preemptively answered your question in the above 

23 hours ago, voidisyinyang said:

yang jing = yin qi

yin jing = fluids

yang qi = ionized lecithin neurohormones creating yin shen

yin shen when "turned around" = yang shen = yuan jing

what was it? 1 year of 6 hours of full lotus meditation a day - with celibacy - then restores the Yuan Jing back to a 16 year old male - and that then activates the Yuan Qi.

 

Read the book "Taoist Yoga: alchemy and immortality" for details - it's free online.

 

The progression above would relate to the school of 'Inferior Virtue' , I.E beginning with the hormones/sexual energy and climbing up to yuan jing using a technique.

and the quote below to school of 'Superior Virtue' , I.E beginning with yuan jing and pulling the rest along non-using a technique. Virtue meaning "inherent potency" in this context.

 

On 31/07/2019 at 2:26 PM, Sebastian said:

My Master once shared that when you place your attention in the throne, you are in effect placing your attention at the UDT/MDT/LDT at the same time - because the Heavenly Heart contains all the energies of the body. Hence it is a special point to access the Oneness of your Being.

 

From my own understanding and experience, it is not only a third eye practice. The Flower draws its roots from all three Dantians, your body is like the compost, and it's an organic unfolding. When you truly relax, eventually the Light will enter the center of the head by itself, and your lower Dantian will naturally have some activity to support this phenomenon. The three Dantians will become alive, connect and become one. You will forget completely about the Dantians, the throne, the Light as you'll be in the Oneness of Spirit. 

 

Spoiler

 

 

*
 

"An ancient scripture says:

        Superior virtue has no doing: there is nothing whereby it does. 
        Inferior virtue does: there is something whereby it does.(1)

Another scripture says:

        Superior virtue keeps one's form intact by means of the Tao. 
        Inferior virtue extends one's existence by means of a technique.(2)

Both passages say that superior virtue and inferior virtue differ in status, and that their operation is also not the same."

 

https://www.goldenelixir.com/jindan/cultivating_the_tao_19.html

Edited by shazlor
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What if, the Yuan Jing were thought of as unformed clay. They clay can be molded into any number of shapes, each having their different qualities and uses. They are all still clay, though. Likewise the jing can be put to lots of different uses, sexual being one of them.


Further, say one has already made the clay into some shape, but then decides to change it to something else. It's going to take more work than if they started out to make the second shape in the first place.

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On 8/2/2019 at 10:35 AM, MIchael80 said:

But since not many teach the full alchemical method and all the books that are on the market about neidan are the modern nothern method (which is watered down) you should read some of these.

first you need to "lay the foundations" (which means replenishing the yuan stuff in alchemy.....though in modern times it often means just using a little qi gong to balance the body).

 

Look into "daoist internal mastery" from Wang Liping

"white moon on the mountain peak" from Damo Mitchell

"neidan for everyone" forgot the author

all of these books teach only watered down forms of alchemy but better than nothing

 

Are you saying that all the books about Neidan are watered down because the authors, such as Masters Wang Liping and Damo Mitchell, don't know the real thing?

What about the Daoist Classics?

Do you know anyone that teaches the full alchemical method?

 

thanks.

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Posted (edited)
10 hours ago, vonkrankenhaus said:

 

Yes.

 

Eat food.

 

You also have to say what kind of food, right? Meat or no meat? What about grains?

 

20 hours ago, vonkrankenhaus said:

Cultivation texts mix these contexts drawing from both philosophical and medical sources.

 

Classical Chinese Medicine is applied Classical Chinese Philosophy.

Edited by KuroShiro

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44 minutes ago, shazlor said:

 

I believe voidisyinyang has preemptively answered your question in the above 

 

The progression above would relate to the school of 'Inferior Virtue' , I.E beginning with the hormones/sexual energy and climbing up to yuan jing using a technique.

and the quote below to school of 'Superior Virtue' , I.E beginning with yuan jing and pulling the rest along non-using a technique. Virtue meaning "inherent potency" in this context.

 

 

  Reveal hidden contents

 

 

*
 

"An ancient scripture says:

        Superior virtue has no doing: there is nothing whereby it does. 
        Inferior virtue does: there is something whereby it does.(1)

Another scripture says:

        Superior virtue keeps one's form intact by means of the Tao. 
        Inferior virtue extends one's existence by means of a technique.(2)

Both passages say that superior virtue and inferior virtue differ in status, and that their operation is also not the same."

 

https://www.goldenelixir.com/jindan/cultivating_the_tao_19.html

 

The inferior virtue - if you study Pregadio - is actually for the immortal body training. So with Superior Virtue you get faster results but with inferior virtue you are working against the mundane ways of the world - after enlightenment is already achieved.

 

So the time is bidirectional intention and can not be separated.

 

As I have mentioned - a dude was dying from cancer and I could smell his rotting flesh - since I had fasted for 7 days while meditating the whole time at age 29. So then Chunyi Lin healed him while Chunyi was in full lotus and so the rotting flesh death smell went away. But then we took a break and the dude had brought his female who then sucked off his energy. The energy was from the Emptiness and sent as a Shen healing but since the dude ejaculated - I could hear them through the thin walls - then I could also smell his rotting flesh death smell come back. So in that case the Superior virtue healing of the Emptiness was changed back into yin jing and the rotting flesh cancer death came back. I was shocked that the lady could even be in the same room with him but of course as WEsterners they were totally oblivious as to what was going on.

 

So as the book Taoist Yoga explains - the left eye is Yang Shen but it is also Yin Qi. and the Right eye is Yin shen but is also Yang Qi.

 

So then you have to rotate the eyes to make the Yuan Qi and the yuan qi emanates out of the third eye pineal gland. But the Yuan Qi is created via the right side of the heart.

 

So the right side vagus nerve goes to the right side of the heart via the right eye as the yang qi. So that is the descending down of the yang qi but it has to be purified by the Emptiness via the yin qi and Yang Shen - which is actually from the virtual photons of the Future.

 

So a Yang shen healing is to create multiple shen bodies - but you are doing so at different slices of Emptiness spacetime. Since the spiritual master is turning the light around of their Shen - then for them they experience it all happening at the SAME time due to light not experiencing time nor space. But the Emptiness is spacetime directly and so even "zero and infinity" are relative to spacetime itself.

 

 

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11 hours ago, vonkrankenhaus said:

 

That is a reversal - like the insides of the trigrams for Fire and Water.

And like 4 Emblems - YinYang of Yin, YinYang of Yang, etc.

 

At the "Supreme" (obvious, total) level of the TaiJi, substance and stasis are Yin and movement and energy are Yang.

 

 

 

 

-VonKrankenhaus

TAIJIzhou.png

 

Yes so the Red Dragon is male but has the yin internally as water and for alchemy - the yang spirit which is our external spacetime experience with the eyes open - this must be reversed - so that the yin qi of the red dragon (that powers the spirit) is then descended into Earth - and so the yin qi then feeds the yang qi of the water.

 

So then the Red Dragon then becomes the female Green Dragon as wisdom energy of the Yuan Qi of the universe - after it has been sublimated up via the white tiger (which is the yang qi from the black tiger). Then the third eye and heart purify this energy so that the green dragon now has substance due to the red dragon blending with the white tiger - as their copulation in the third eye.

 

So yes that is the reversal you speak of. But when the energy leaves the body, as John Chang points out, then it is as the yin qi without substance. So the Yang Shen relies on absorbing blue light of the yin qi energy - and this means that the yin qi blockages of the red light (the red dragon) and then being purified via the green light. So then just as in relativistic quantum physics - once the blue light (from the virtual photons of the future) are absorbed this then creates Golden Light via the green and red light.

 

So then the Golden immortal body is the yang shen created from virtual photons of the future that are then absorbed back into the body and stored as PHONONS - or Yuan Qi ether energy. Phonons can not be seen but can be listened to - and so this is the paradox of the 5th dimension as the Emptiness. In science Phonons are not limited by the Pauli Exclusion Principle - but Photons ARE limited. So the PHonons are a kind of antigravity pressure - and this is what enables levitation also.

 

So this is why the Golden immortal Yang Shen body always has to return back to the Yuan Qi source as infinite time-frequency energy or phonon energy of the 5th dimension that is in eternal motion but can not be seen. So science calls this "noncommutative phase" logic - is it the logic of the Taiji as explained by music theory. So the Void inherently has infinite yin-yang energy to it, embedded within it - for eternal creation of matter from spacetime itself - just as a black hole turns into a white hole.

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We are all born with vitality, energy and spirit. Post heaven Chi can damage these three treasures. post heaven chi comes form the  social constructs, environment, diet, stress, thoughts all these can damage the three treasures. Stress is the major cause of Jing loss. Jing is not sexual energy we have jing  before we have a body and after we have a body.

 

The reversal is going back through the gate of life become a child again. The physical training increases the quality and quantity of the three treasures, guard them and keep them safe.

 

Neidan training is the life and death solving methods. Developing our self awareness of how our body works. Knowing what dies and what is immortal. Many people put a lot of effort into what dies.

 

Stillness training of Neidan is not for everyone. Sitting in solitude and fasting for many days at a time. Having  an authentic master who has verified all the steps and dissolved all barriers is the only way to learn neidan. Just like if one wants to be a chef or any trade one must be taught by someone skilled and apply all the skills for themselves before becoming a master of the trade.

 

Everything written is pointing at something only we can enter the gate for ourselves. Then the words become nonsense and useless because really we are all pointing at something beyond words and beyond this physical realm. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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5 hours ago, Shubin said:

It seems that in Neidan,  Jing to Qi,is 精 to 炁 (not 气).

Some schools of Neidan call Jing as Yuan Jing (元精),  why they do not call it "sexual energy" (性精)?

 

Jing is not always about "sexual energy" in just a biological sense.

 

It depends on the context.

 

"Qi" using the character showing rice and steam is about postnatal Jing, acquired Jing or resulting processes. Variants also used to say Breath, and we can see in medical texts written next to Lungs.

 

Zhou Dunyi diagram I posted isn't showing "breath" or "steam", but the whole concept of Polarity and Movement in summary.

 

Older character you show (炁) is often in "philosophy" or "cosmology" texts and mean something like "invisible energy" or "non-substantial energy". It is movement between the poles of any polarity and not any kind of substance.

 

Jing is in that context any substance that produces polarities, and Qi is moving in those polarities.

 

Also seeing "prenatal" established polarities (structures), and "postnatal" or acquired polarities - like from eating (changing structures).

 

You change Jing, you change Qi.

 

 

 

 

-VonKrankenhaus

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On 02/08/2019 at 5:19 PM, dwai said:

Jing to Qi happens when you deliberately start qi cultivation. What we are doing is essentially increasing the vibrational frequency of the jing and converting it to qi by the method of cultivation we choose. There are pre-heaven and post-heaven energies. The pre-heaven stuff we are born with and cannot be increased, it keeps decreasing until it dissipates (when the body dies). The post-heaven stuff comes from food and environment. 

No. We sink the Qi and drop it into/store it in the lower dan tien. 

Then there is Jin (also called jing by some traditions), which is generated by burning the qi and storing it in the bone marrow throughout your skeleton. This is akin to horse power generated by burning gasoline. The more we can condense the qi, the greater the jin we accrue and store in the marrows. This gives us more "power". The process by which we can get to this "creating and storing jin" is emptiness. We have to drop literally everything. Let go of all concepts, all thought, etc etc. That is when we start vibrating our qi at an even higher frequency to become shen or spirit.

 

But this doesn't mean that we don't already have Qi, Jing and Shen. We are born with them already. We are not necessarily making "new" stuff. We are uncovering what we already have, through the process of meditation and systematic cultivation. 

 

The way I understand it is, jing, qi and shen are all essentially part of the same continuum. They are not "different" substances. They are just different vibrational frequencies of the same energy. Eventually it becomes apparent (via direct experience) that there is only one energy, and every "thing" is that same energy vibrating in different frequencies. 

 

 

It took a couple of reads but I got it. Thanks!

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16 hours ago, vonkrankenhaus said:

 

Yes.

 

Eat food.

 

Do not have sex or think about sex, and get involve in other thinking and discernments instead.

 

This conserves hormone precursors for use as neurotransmitters, melatonin, etc, and not androgen type hormones of sex actions.

 

Sexual actions are costly in structure and metabolism resources.

 

Thinkings use the same basic materials.

Another way is to go opposite and develop increased capacity of both functions.

 

But you will find the environment and "food" limits this.

 

So that is why this science was developed about use of resources.

 

 

 

 

 

-VonKrankenhaus

 

But to be done without force.

 

Yet it is difficult sometimes to ignore urges.

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