After Enlightenment - Sainthood, Personality,

[Jeff]

10 minutes ago, Starjumper said:

"Going with the flow" is a good recommendation, but it has a built in error.  It's not like floating down a river subject to the whims of the currents, it's more like a sailboat captain, where you pay attention to the flow, but you have sails and a rudder, so you can work with it to get to your destination.  Paying attention to not just the flow of the water but also of the air and keeping an eye on the destination.

 

Yes, and then it can even grow to be more like a surfer on the leading edge of the wave. Stay with it and the wave will even follow you...

[Fa Xin]

33 minutes ago, welkin said:

 

Can you explain what your definition of what going with the flow means? I think whether that's the right direction to go is is really dependent on what that means.

 

I also feel that flow may appear in ways that may not be what our current mind idea of flow is. Countless times i wanted to "flow", yet i couldn't. And maybe it was too much ego or it may be that there is a difference in flow of consciousness and mind.

 

Want to clarify that i do agree with the idea of flow. I just think that flow might be more hidden than we think. I guess one would only know if one is fully awake.

 

I do agree that feeling the flow is a subtle thing, and can definitely feel hidden.  

 

The best way I can describe how I view it... is trusting in something bigger than yourself.  Also using intuition, and listening to how things feel, rather than doing. Acceptance, even.  Not struggling against "what is".

 

These things ^ sound rather cliche, I'm sure you've heard them a hundred times before.  So nothing breakthrough here.  I've found it's more in the implementation of them, each day, little by little.  

 

 

[Wu Ming Jen]

In the zone my self was forgotten only doing what needs to be done. The one doing all this stuff was no where to be found.

[silent thunder]

surfer and wave are one...

[KuroShiro]

21 hours ago, manitou said:

All this talk of enlightenment is subjective.  Some would give the impression that there is only one path.  Surely this is not the case.  The well of information, as I know it, is actually like a channel.  The words are drawn from you almost without your consent, they just come.  It's just a matter of stilling the mind and waiting for the answers - and it's immediate.  This is all such mysterious stuff. 

 

Do you speak the words? Can it also be more subtle like a knowing instead of only words? Did it ever happen without stilling the mind?

Thank you.

 

[Pilgrim]

14 hours ago, dwai said:

 

All dharmic spiritual traditions are based on this.

 

Take Buddhism for example. The Buddha didn’t set out to seek immortality or a rainbow body.

 

His immediate concern was an explanation of why people suffer, and what the purpose of life was. And to find out how we can end the suffering. 

 

Hindu traditions consider the very cycle of birth and rebirth the greatest suffering. The nondual traditions seek to transcend this by ending the cycle (freedom), the dualistic traditions seek to transcend this by surrendering the little self to God.

 

Wrt suffering itself, there can be multiple levels in which it can be looked at. For some, suffering entails some physiological disorder. For others it is grinding poverty. For yet others it is mental disorders.

 

I’ll venture to say the greatest source of suffering in the modern world today is rampant materialism. I’m sure there tomes written on the nature of the modern society and it’s ills. So I’ll point only this one out. Materialism presupposes that happiness can be obtained by acquiring objects. 

Get the fancy car/house/partner/job etc etc (fill in the blanks here) and you will be happy. But it never ends. The acquiring becomes compulsive and we jump from momentary pleasure to momentary pleasure. Along with it comes the fear of loss and the aversion to it. Pleasure begets pain. Resistance to pain causes suffering.

 

Really the materialistic outlook is a misplaced understanding of what happiness is, and therefore seeks it outside, in things. What is happening is that there is a primordial programming within us, which is supposed to get us to look inward, instead of being engrossed in the “world” and it’s objects. Suffering leads us towards this “inward looking”. 

 

More later....(if there’s interest).  

 

Keep going.

[Pilgrim]

5 hours ago, freeform said:

 

Nope - it’s literal. 

 

This is is not speculation or interpretation of texts, it’s from meeting one that knows everything and is omniscient. Literally.

 

Who is this? Even if you feel inclined not to share I will tell you this, if this be the case with that person they are enlightened beyond the Jhanas and not just awake.

[manitou]

2 hours ago, silent thunder said:

surfer and wave are one...

 

 

What a wonderful discussion.

 

If we have reached a place of "enlightenment', for want of a better term, then our self has been infused with love.  If we have aligned with the eternal and stay in the consciousness, then the unifying thread of all phenomena is love, even if it appears to be opposite.  To go with the flow is to merely enable the love to manifest, without getting in the way.  Because The Intelligence will always win out, sooner or later we learn that doing it our way will often just impede our growth.  With love as the guiding light, one can't go wrong.  We will be given Understanding.

[mrpasserby]

21 hours ago, Pilgrim said:

22 hours ago, mrpasserby said:

I am fully committed to my current course of action. 

May I ask what that is? is it Kabbalah ?

Spoiler

https://www.thedaobums.com/topic/44876-visualizations-stories-the-mage/

 

Controversial post info. moved to the Rabbit hole

Edited May 5, 2019 by mrpasserby
moved controversial info.

[manitou]

Just now, mrpasserby said:

I have studied some part of all Major religions/crafts/traditions but my main course of action at this time my Psychopomp work. 

 

 

Uh oh.   Are you ill?

Edited May 5, 2019 by manitou

[mrpasserby]

On 5/5/2019 at 10:21 AM, manitou said:

 

 

Are you ill?

Thanks for asking. 

Edited May 7, 2019 by mrpasserby
answer edited post

[freeform]

1 hour ago, Pilgrim said:

Who is this? Even if you feel inclined not to share I will tell you this, if this be the case with that person they are enlightened beyond the Jhanas and not just awake.

 

Yes to both.

 

They are not well known and I can not say who it is.

 

In the lineage of this master, ‘Awake’ is considered just the start. The ‘first contact’ with the primordial self.

 

I’ve also met ones going through the Jhannas that have demonstrated similar gifts. For example as I’ve mentioned, one who’s training for the 5th can pinpoint everyone else at 4th and above. This is apparently something that all those at 4th Jhanna and above can do. As a result I’ve been told how many enlightened and immortal beings are currently on earth. Pretty interesting. (Not many!)

 

I myself have only stabilised the 1st Jhanna. My next meeting with my Buddhist teacher is in a few years. I’m meant to be able to sit in full unwavering absorption for 72hrs - before moving on to 2nd Jhanna transmission and training... (I’m managing only tens of minutes at the moment 😄 - even if the minutes seem like hours)...

 

The immaterial Jhannas require weeks and months in absorption (no food, water, any movement of body or mind etc)... Can’t really imagine that

[thelerner]

18 minutes ago, mrpasserby said:

I have studied some part of all Major religions/crafts/traditions but my main course of action at this time my Psychopomp work. 

 

15 minutes ago, manitou said:

 

 

Uh oh.   Are you ill?

 

10 minutes ago, mrpasserby said:

? 

I believe it was Psychopomp- "..the spiritual guide of a living person's soul."

not Psychopoomp    

[dwai]

6 hours ago, welkin said:

 

Please more. Always interested

 

On the suffering through materialism though. Could it be that this is not the right suffering that leads to enlightenment? This seems to be more like the type of suffering that is imposed on oneself based on the current state of the world and those in power. This type of suffering seems to me to do the opposite. It's like the type of suffering specifically created in replacement of honest suffering, that may come from questioning the status quo and suffering as a result of standing ones ground in every situation including when you're alone.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Suffering is resistance to change. Whenever we resist, we suffer. A famous story (as I heard it)illustrates how the Buddha came to be known as “thus come/gone one” (tathāgata). Once he was sick and he realized that more than his sickness, he caused greater misery to himself by resisting the fact that he was ill. Instead of shoring up his energy to let his body heal, he went sifting through a list of things he couldn’t accomplish due to  the illness, lamenting mentally his lost time, lost opportunities etc etc. until he realized that he expended far more energy on resisting  the fact of his illness than it would take for his body to heal itself. Hence he came up with the phrase “let it come and go” , hence the term “tathāgata” (thus come/gone). 

 

There seems to be a some correlation in the transactional world to getting beyond the basic needs of survival first (food, shelter, clothing ), before more profound questions can arise. 

 

For someone who’s busy trying to stay alive, the questions about the nature of existence, purpose of life might arise surely, but won’t become a pressing requirement to answer, in light of the immediate need to survive.

 

Seeking liberation requires conditions conducive to it. One aspect of that is having enough security (materially) so there is time to address the questions that arise. Otherwise there always is another lifetime. 

 

In the modern world, while there still are sections of the population who have severe existential threats in form of poverty and hunger, a larger portion of the world are materially self-sufficient ( not just the 1%). 

Hence the growth of the materialistic lifestyle. 

 

More later...

 

 

Edited May 5, 2019 by dwai

[Pilgrim]

52 minutes ago, mrpasserby said:

Thanks for asking. 

Is it safe to assume then that your work is to become as a guide like Anubis perhaps?

[Pilgrim]

40 minutes ago, freeform said:

 

Yes to both.

 

They are not well known and I can not say who it is.

 

In the lineage of this master, ‘Awake’ is considered just the start. The ‘first contact’ with the primordial self.

 

I’ve also met ones going through the Jhannas that have demonstrated similar gifts. For example as I’ve mentioned, one who’s training for the 5th can pinpoint everyone else at 4th and above. This is apparently something that all those at 4th Jhanna and above can do. As a result I’ve been told how many enlightened and immortal beings are currently on earth. Pretty interesting. (Not many!)

 

I myself have only stabilised the 1st Jhanna. My next meeting with my Buddhist teacher is in a few years. I’m meant to be able to sit in full unwavering absorption for 72hrs - before moving on to 2nd Jhanna transmission and training... (I’m managing only tens of minutes at the moment 😄 - even if the minutes seem like hours)...

 

The immaterial Jhannas require weeks and months in absorption (no food, water, any movement of body or mind etc)... Can’t really imagine that

I am very pleased for you and congratulate you on your accomplishments.

 

10’s of minutes is really great! 

 

Completely understood when it comes to privacy and feel happy for you to have an enlightened being teaching you.

 

Yes I know about the absorptions and the passage of time 3 and 4 hours can be like minutes eventually.

 

3 hours of Kriya and I am unfit to talk let alone interact with others and really have no desire to.

 

To be able to practice for 72 hours will be I hope in a regulated environment because when you come out of that, your state will be very different and you might need help.

 

And I can only guess as you advance under expert guidance that even the most time consuming practices will become as mere moments.

[Armando]

Simply going with the flow is excellent advice as long as the water is relatively calm. 😃

[manitou]

Going with the flow is a really tricky subject, IMO.  Not-going with the flow requires judgments.  Going with the flow is to assume that Life knows what it's doing.  In my own particular set of events, realizing that I was an alcoholic was, for a time, the worst day of my life.  And then, years later, I realized that it was actually the best day of my life.  Conditions appearing as they are in this day and time is confounding, truly.  So many seemingly bad actors in major roles.  But they too are part of the Whole.

 

But I think it's like the internet.  We hear so many awful things that can happen through social media.  And yet, look at us.  We are a groundswell of like-minded people who are doing their best to uplift humanity - maybe not intentionally, but I think it works that way - and nobody ever hears of forums like this one.  We just don't make the news because kindness and enlightened thought are apparently not newsworthy enough to sell papers.

 

But that doesn't mean we're not there.  And growing.  I run into enlightened thinkers more and more often - granted, our perspective is at a level to recognize them.  But even the crazy world events of today are just the top of the iceberg.  What's happening below the water line are what's really going on, and who knows how all that's going to fall into place?

 

 

[dwai]

There is an Inherent void within us that makes us seek fulfillment. That is the way out of duality and into liberation.

 

But the nature of the mind is such that it is constantly seeking outward. In order to know, it separates into self and other, subject and it’s objects. Why this happens is a mystery and cannot be answered to everyone’s satisfaction. If you can agree with me that this phenomenon occurs, then the next step works as follows.

 

The mind seeks fulfillment in things. In a materialistic world, the primary outcome is to seek it in objects. Hence the chain reaction of wants, desires, acquisition of objects, eventual disenchantment from what already is ours, and the attraction for what is not. 

 

That void in us, is really amnesia of our true nature. Most people don’t even know that. They spend lifetimes chasing after figments of their minds. Yet, the permanent fulfillment is always with our reach. Why? Because the solution to that void is our Self knowledge.

 

For some, the process of remaining dissatisfied becomes so overwhelmingly painful, that an escape is sought after. That is the beginning of seeking. To start looking within again, to try and find something that will last.

 

Then they start meditating, mind-body exercises etc. Only to find that nothing lasts forever. Even peak/mystical experiences! 

 

More later...

 

 

 

[mrpasserby]

On 5/4/2019 at 5:52 AM, Starjumper said:

 

That diagram doesn't really do anything for me, possibly it would help if all the words were in English.

 

I think sincerity is an essential necessary ingredient for a person to have in order to experience enlightenment.  I call it ruthless self honesty (or ruthless honesty applied to all, but the other guys don't want to hear about it.)  Sincerity, ruthless self honesty, a pure heart, all required.

 

For me enlightenment is the initial experience and the wisdom is only a possible by product of this sincerity and honesty.

 

I'm not so sure about avoiding reincarnation.  The spirit realm where you have no body may be boring as hell, just blissed out like a heroin high.  Not that I've taken heroin, but I've done a codeine high and I can imagine what heroin is like.  Maybe it's better to maintain your 'self' awareness in the spirit realm and then chose how to reincarnate.  There's much to do here to try to save the environment from being destroyed by human overpopulation, so the big question is, what's the best way to do it?  (Note: answer is hidden in question)

'Maybe it's better to maintain your 'self' awareness in the spirit realm and then chose how to reincarnate'.

Thanks that is good advice.

Kabbalah tree of life changed to best English meanings that I could find, as requested. 

[manitou]

 

 

Thank you.  That is so beautiful, so many different planes.  It's like brain candy.

[manitou]

3 hours ago, dwai said:

There is an Inherent void within us that makes us seek fulfillment. That is the way out of duality and into liberation.

 

But the nature of the mind is such that it is constantly seeking outward. In order to know, it separates into self and other, subject and it’s objects. Why this happens is a mystery and cannot be answered to everyone’s satisfaction. If you can agree with me that this phenomenon occurs, then the next step works as follows.

 

The mind seeks fulfillment in things. In a materialistic world, the primary outcome is to seek it in objects. Hence the chain reaction of wants, desires, acquisition of objects, eventual disenchantment from what already is ours, and the attraction for what is not. 

 

That void in us, is really amnesia of our true nature. Most people don’t even know that. They spend lifetimes chasing after figments of their minds. Yet, the permanent fulfillment is always with our reach. Why? Because the solution to that void is our Self knowledge.

 

For some, the process of remaining dissatisfied becomes so overwhelmingly painful, that an escape is sought after. That is the beginning of seeking. To start looking within again, to try and find something that will last.

 

Then they start meditating, mind-body exercises etc. Only to find that nothing lasts forever. Even peak/mystical experiences! 

 

More later...

 

 

 

 

 

The words of a true Master.  Thank you, Dwai, for the channel.

[welkin]

On 5/3/2019 at 1:39 PM, dwai said:

@Pilgrim very interesting and thanks for sharing. There are many overlaps with the system of taoist mediation and tai chi practice I've learnt. In our system, the master "lights" your stove, so to speak. It happens with a touch to the third-eye. It triggers some deep and profound changes, which results in continuous bliss, 24x7 for months. Those who keep up the practice, stabilize in it and enter nirvikalpa samadhi repeatedly, and are after that able to remain in a sahaja samadhi.

 

My master just calls it "emptiness" and it is a condition that is maintained physically as well as mentally. A state of non-attachment, non-clinging. Letting go of likes/dislikes, pleasures/pains etc. It deepens progressively with practice and time. 

 

When I first got a taste of it, I spent about 15 days spontaneously meditating in all sorts of places - in the restaurants, while driving, at the grocery store etc etc. The energy would move my body and I'd be doing spontaneous kriyas/tai chi forms etc.  

 

Then another 18 months in a state of split awareness. Like the two birds on a branch (Mundaka Upanishad). Constantly, one state was ever blissful, unattached, unruffled by ups and downs. The other was busy continuing on as most people's minds/egos do. Yet, the power of the silent/blissful awareness was so overwhelming that many old habits just died on the vine. 

 

My master told me that the "ego" becomes a faithful servant of what he calls the "spiritual mind". And it has, for the most part. Yet, I often am struck by how much deeper the vein runs in my master...  

 

 

 

Hi Dwai,

 

Are there any physical indications that your third eye has opened? Based on your description, i would say i opened my third eye around 3-4 weeks ago. Though, I will say the physical sensation just happened recently.

 

I literally feel like i have a third eye on my forehead.

[Starjumper]

1 hour ago, welkin said:

i would say i opened my third eye around 3-4 weeks ago.

 

Personally I don't like the words open or closed because they are misleading and ... incorrect.  Rather than opened or closed think of it as a spectrum that goes from a little to a lot.  I prefer to use the words more energized or less energized.

[Starjumper]

15 hours ago, mrpasserby said:

'Maybe it's better to maintain your 'self' awareness in the spirit realm and then chose how to reincarnate'.

Thanks that is good advice.

Kabbalah tree of life changed to best English meanings that I could find, as requested. 

 

Thanks, but that doesn't really do it for me.  I would have to read about what the words mean, and I'm not into that kind of thing