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32 minutes ago, windwalker said:

 

 males will believe they are females but are not biologically female don't count.

 

Are you insisting there is something intrinsic to biological females that males can never understand or know about.

 

never said anything about that

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4 minutes ago, blue eyed snake said:

 

:blink: first it was something about inclusiveness

 

now it's comrade?? :rolleyes:

 

implying that I want ( or need) to hold up my hand for my living, I wonder what you read between the lines.

Its far beyond reality.

 

He likes to get on about "free stuff". There were posts and posts of it in the Trump thread. It seems to be some sort of thing for him, and I'd just ignore it. 

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Just now, blue eyed snake said:

 

never said anything about that

 

Yeah, and there tends to be lots of obfuscation... 

 

I've gotta work early today. Hope you have a good day. Ttfn

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5 hours ago, blue eyed snake said:

yeah well, I have never read about this topic, I meet it daily though.

 

so yes, in chimps the alfa male is the dominant one in the grup, in hyena's the female, because she's larger and thus stronger. In lions the ' alfamale' get fisrt choice at the food, but only the females do the hunting. So essentially he's a lazy bum.

 

to me, patriarchy has it roots in the simple fact that males are bigger and stronger then women so have the ability to beat women ( or their daughters) and rape them into submission. But as we are not chimps but humans we all have a seed of morality, in some larger then in others. So males tend to hide behind patriarchy being benign ( like the short period of dad/mom/kids and dad as sole provider. This I think was not only small in time but also just a portion of the population).

 

I do not say modern males do intentionally do this, but historically I observe that. We are all conditioned into thinking that males are the strong dominant good fathers, and the females the childish, irresponsible weak ones.

Well, just looking around everywhere this just does not click with reality.

 

On the piece of mud were I live, women have been sytematically denied the little freedom they had under the ' benevolent' influence of the very patriarch catholic church.

 

At least in this country, people were not that enthusiastic about ' being ' Christened' There's a legendary story from the North of my country where a missionary ( Bonifatius) has been killed. This guy reputedly chopped down a holy oak. The folks were not amused, they wanted to keep their own gods and goddesses. It took to around 1000 before the northern half of my county was christened. But they had to sneak it in slowly.

 

then around 1500 the hammer of the witches was written and brought into effect. The dutch wiki tells us this.

https://nl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heksenhamer

 

 

This, to me, is about how a lot of men tend to think about women, and this is were it comes from.

 

For women and men alike it meant that the wisewoman of the village were arrested and killed. Wise in the ways of herbs, wise in the ways of relationships, in essence they were the medical doctors and psychologists of a village. They lost their doctor and were send to the monks with their aches and illnesses.

 

These women did midwifery, they helped women with childbirth, but also with how to get rid of unwanted children. This for a woman is of utmost importance. It's better to be able to feed the child you have then to loose them both because you get pregnant to soon. When too young or too old it's better to not be pregnant at all. Whether to have children or not ( or how many) has a causal relationship with the amount of freedom a woman has.

 

Church changed this. Around 1900 church told women that breastfeeding is sinful ( remember, women have insatiable desire and are inherently sinful)  and the kids should be fed animal milk, can you imagine the amount of dying children, the women who became pregnant again and again because they did not breastfeed. 

This was the result of male patriarchy, to the detriment of women and children, not benign at all.

 

church stepped in and handed the medical profession to the ( male) monks, the nuns in general were allowed to help but not to be practitioners them selves. By now that bastion is broken, but there is no balance yet, there still more male doctors then female doctors, and more female nurse then male nurses.

Medicins are tested out on males, but females are half of the population and react differently, guess how that comes about? our bodies are way more intricate then males because of that baby-bakery we carry around. Female bodies live in circles, every month again, were male bodies  live linear.

 

Due to the warped ideas that males have about females , females are taken less serious when they go to a doctor.

6 years ago I fell ill, a good friend of mine preceded me with that for about half a year, he was send to every sspecilasis there was, I was told that I probably had had too much stress, that i shuld take an antidepressivum and go see a therapist.

 

we had the exact same symptoms, and my case is not unique.

Know what MS is? Females are much more prone to get it then males, I think about 75% is female, it was called hysteric paralysis. 

females are hysteric ya know...

 

Now we have HIV, AIDS, its about solved by now, hey...that's an illness were primarily men were ill at first, and then prostitutes, so there were clear male interests there. It is more or less solved. 

 

Now ME ( myalgic encefalomyelitis) which was around the bock long before HIV stuck up its head. Primarily females are falling ill with this, just as with MS. And they get send to psychiatrist and told they should do more. Even though research clearly shows that there are many bodily dysfunctions that make these patients unable to do that. If such a patients believe doctor and starts to ' do more' they almost invariably fall back to bedridden for years , sometimes for the rest of their lives

 

Well...there is not much interest in this illness, even though patients are more ill then MS patients, their suffering is unbelievable. There goes more research money to find a solution to male baldness then to millions of people laying in bed, unable to move, to read, to endure light or sound, sometimes tube fed, in the dark. 

 

patriarchy pushes women into kitchen and kids, there not allowed to be anything else, and it is those remnants that are still around everywhere in western world that get women fed up with patriarchy. 

Take a look at several Muslim countries, that is patriarchy in it's pure form, and if we do not keep up fighting, western world will revert to that, i will fight against that as long as I live.

 

I am not a girl, I am a human endowed with just as much knowledge, morality and compassion as a man.

two differences, I can have a baby, you cannot. You can ( if you're up to it) do heavier physical work then I can

 

so what...lets work together, do away with these historically construed conflicts.

 

to me, the way in life is about balance, in my own body and life, and in relationship with others. As long as men belittle me, act as if I'm a child, not able to live my life independently, as long as that exists, there is no balance.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Well said. Thank you for a factual clear lucid post and sharing your life experience.

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4 hours ago, blue eyed snake said:

here you tell me I'm confused about myself, I'm not. ( that's typical male dominance  behavior  that you're displaying here :D)

Yes Indeed.👍🏻

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4 hours ago, windwalker said:

 

I find what's interesting is that we're in a time and a place where women have the most freedom and opportunity to that historically they've ever had.

 

Many of them argue from a place the US where there's really not much to argue about.

 

 

What I find interesting is how someone who left America to live in an Asian Patriarchal country can make such comments. 

 

No man knows what women go through on a daily basis. It is impossible. That we have women here explaining should at least be listened to instead of argued with.

 

The Trump thread of arguments is one thing but I object to this behavior out of the pit or perhaps this is your intent to get the thread pitted  to have something else to argue over? 

 

Seriously the sex comments and other brutal harangue are not cool. Telling people that essentially being on the net is to accept abuse and personal attacks then  gaslighting them telling them they are not is B.S.

 

Please join the conversation or just leave if all you want to do is act nasty and argue. 

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Pilgrim said:

Please join the conversation or just leave if all you want to do is act nasty and argue. 

 

 

I was in, and did join the conversation if you and others can not control your own understanding 

feeling one is acting "nasty" what does this even mean,  and "arguing "  there are ways to make safe spaces 

so others thoughts or questions can not be heard or addressed...

 

Interesting no?  when all are in agreement or some even seem to be apologist 

there  are no questions asked or raised....

 

"True words are not pleasant; pleasant words are not true. The good are not contentious; the contentious are not good. The wise are not learned; the learned are not wise. Faithful words are often not pleasant; pleasant words are often not faithful."

 

 Seems to ring very true here

 

 

Edited by windwalker

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Pilgrim said:

What I find interesting is how someone who left America to live in an Asian Patriarchal country can make such comments. 

 

 

 you do understand that the president of Taiwan is a woman.

Won't even address the insinuation  about where I live or why....

 

ya might want to check on what  culture means before applying your western out look to others.

 

Well "mini ralis"  I can and do live where I choose to live for reasons that suite me

might want to check the constitution as to why I can....

 

 

Edited by windwalker

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42 minutes ago, windwalker said:

one is acting "nasty" what does this even mean,  and "arguing "

You are old enough to know.  Seriously why would anyone go at a woman and say

 

"

Do you hunt your own food @windwalker, or do you walk into a grocery store?

 

Your reply was:

 

"Do you enjoy sex or  feel its only for procreation .

Its the same question. "

 

I read this and thought are you out of your mind?  How can you possibly act like this and not see how wrong it is? THis is Attempting to shut a woman up by bringing sex into the equation which has been used as a tool against women by Pariarichal men for ages. 

 

Wow then try a fluff piece to cover it up.......... After the arrow has already been shot. 

 

Humans are considered to be tripartite beings 

" body, spirit, and soul."

 

They went and had a cup of tea on you, do you really want ignored? That is where it is going.

 

Reread the things you have written the women here are discussing what patriarchy means to them sharing their life experience which you refuse to do and you blatantly attempt to apply dominance and shut them down. Do you not see this?   You are missing an opportunity to overcome your own conditioning and not be that guy they are talking about.

 

You say it is not personal the things you write. Then I guess that means that you do not mean the things you write. THat the things you write have no meaning and therefore should be ignored?  

 

When you address someone as I am addressing you in reply to addressing me it is personal. Just because you are in front of an internet connected device does not remove the personal aspect of communication. If you are not communicating sincerely then why are you here?  Is it just making noise and chest thumping?

 

We as men have absolutely been gifted Dominance by culture and many other things, heck we do not even have to earn it and many are undeserving. the ones who misuse and abuse the privilege are not really men they are children. 

 

Yesterday I was discussing with my boss's the possibility of partnering with a female who works in our field but in a complimentary service we do not offer. One boss said oh yes I know her she had a hard time over at.... they did not take her seriously, then my favorite boss piped up and said tough break  Woman in a Mans world. 

 

" Woman in a Mans World" All color drained from my face when I heard those words I thought of this very discussion.

 

He knows her and her work she owns her own business and I have seen the people who purchase her services and they are happy with the product .

 

No matter how good women are in their field they are not granted the same privilege and consideration as men. This one had to start her own business to be taken seriously.

 

As men we have a duty to be better and become better than our forefathers and be co equal partners with not only with our women but with our relationships with all women.  We also have to bare the stigma of the trespassers and not be one of them. 

 

As far as a Woman being the president of Taiwan I am not impressed, Hillary Clinton was nearly the president here and I do not think it would have meant anything other than she was the one elected. 

 

I am hoping in 2020 a good woman candidate will come forth this country could use a break from what I have seen of the men in power but I digress term limits in congress are more important than the executive office her in the United States and honestly I really do not care about what they do in Taiwan at all. I live here not there.

 

As far as the patriarchal effect on women in Taiwan I did look into it. Here is what I found.

 

The status of women in Taiwan has been based on and affected by the traditional patriarchalv iews and social structure within Taiwanese society, which put women in a subordinate position to men

 

  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Women_in_Taiwan

 

Oh there is no insinuation what so ever at all I believe with your patriarchal behavior you have exhibited that Taiwan is a nice fit.

 

From what I have read the women there are more under the men's Patriarchal control than they are here in the United States and other Western Countries.

 

I never said you could not live where you choose. What I was trying to get across to you was that I believe your choice of living in Taiwan has many reasons and one of them is a more ready acceptance of a patriarchal dominating male world view.  

 

Maybe I am wrong who knows you refuse to communicate about it.

 

Rule by Father is dead and needs to decompose faster,  rule as equals will come, it just may take another 100 years or so with the degree of refusal to accept it I have read in this thread. 

 

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2 minutes ago, Pilgrim said:

Your reply was:

 

"Do you enjoy sex or  feel its only for procreation .

Its the same question. "

 

I read this and thought are you out of your mind?  How can you possibly act like this and not see how wrong it is? THis is Attempting to shut a woman up by bringing sex into the equation which has been used as a tool against women by Pariarichal men for ages

 

 

It seems you have a lot of issues,,,,which this thread is bringing out...

 

one can hunt for food out of necessity, or enjoy the food they buy in a market...its the same....

not my issue or problem if one chooses to make another connection...

 

As to the other things,  its a discussion  on the net. 

one I find interesting ....

 

yep ignore always works...   

for some life is like that..

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1 minute ago, windwalker said:

 

 

It seems you have a lot of issues,,,,which this thread is bringing out...

 

one can hunt for food out of necessity, or enjoy the food they buy in a market...its the same....

not my issue or problem if one chooses to make another connection...

 

As to the other things,  its a discussion  on the net. 

one I find interesting ....

 

yep ignore always works...   

for some life is like that..

I most certainly do have a great many issues concerning patriarchy and discussing them with others has been very helpful even realizing I have them in the first place.

 

Quite honestly I am sick of it and wish it did not exist at all and have felt embarrassed by it every-time some fellow male did something stupid or something goes their way because it was to be understood it was okay because it's a man's world. I personally really do hate being included in that with the grin and a wink yeah were in charge attitude I have seen so often.

 

I as a man have benefited from Patriarchal Attitudes without a doubt  but there is a better way even if it means no longer receiving un-earned benefits just to maintain the status quo so things can can be kept loaded in one directions favor while the other half of humanity is treated like a second class citizen by virtue of gender birth and not merit as a person. I am not one for free stuff and it does bother me.

 

Hunt for food is one thing what you wrote is another.

 

Is a discussion on the net less meaningful to you than one in person? If so that is rather insincere. 

 

You do not strike me as insincere. I value our discussions here allot and I value you but sometimes I just do not like the way you act at all, it is just so unnecessary and yes I do think highly of you or else I would not bother to complain.  I know you are better than the way you react sometimes,  your a fighter but there is no fight to be won here it is already lost. 

 

Rule by Father is slowly dying.  

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2 hours ago, Pilgrim said:

Quite honestly I am sick of it and wish it did not exist at all and have felt embarrassed by it every-time some fellow male did something stupid or something goes their way because it was to be understood it was okay because it's a man's world.

 

ya might want to rethink 

This is the group your supporting..

 

Quote

Although the socioeconomic status of women is most often not equal to the female power and equality these Goddesses embody, they offer an alternative to the virgin mother/whore dichotomy that is often the only representation of femaleness in Western orthodox religion—where even the sacred female is often completely obscured and denied.

 

 

not my thing, maybe something you might want to check out before jumping on the peace train.  Some are really very dishonest 

and totally not clear with themselves or others..

 

 

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My friend I am supporting equal relations twixt man and woman. Yin and yang Shiva and Shakti.

 

IDIC infinite Diversity In Infinate Combination.

 

We are equal while being different from Women and for one gender to denigrate and subordinate and claim superior rights in a world where Might means less than right is an old dicotmy that needs laid to rest once and for all.

 

There are so many amazing women out there all you have to do is drop old conditioning and enjoy their company. 

 

They are here on this forum, this I know to be true beyond a shadow of a doubt. 

 

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2 minutes ago, Pilgrim said:

There are so many amazing women out there all you have to do is drop old conditioning and enjoy their company. 

 

They are here on this forum, this I know to be true beyond a shadow of a doubt. 

 

 

yep my 3 daughters happen to be some of them, there are some here no doubt. 

The ones on this thread and some others seem to be the exceptions.   

They'er not honest , not clear

 

its ok,,, not here to convince or change a mind. 

Will and do comment on things of interest.

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1 minute ago, windwalker said:

 

 

yep my 3 daughters happen to be some of them, there are some here no doubt. 

The ones on this thread and some others seem to be the exceptions.   

They'er not honest , not clear

 

its ok,,, not here to convince or change a mind. 

Will and do comment on things of interest.

I can accept commenting on things of interest. We are all working through this topic together and It is my opinion they are being honest and no one is completely clear. If we were, we would be what a Buddha or a Taoist Sage right? I guess a sage in Taoism is a Buddha? Not sure still figuring this out.

 

My ex-father in law raised 9 children 5 of them daughters he used to tell me before his death, the boys easy,  the girls Padamadone! they were difficult.

 

I am certain you raised your girls with lots of love and were the best Dad you could be. 

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15 minutes ago, windwalker said:

 

 

yep my 3 daughters happen to be some of them, there are some here no doubt. 

The ones on this thread and some others seem to be the exceptions.   

They'er not honest , not clear

 

its ok,,, not here to convince or change a mind. 

Will and do comment on things of interest.

 

Did you just call me dishonest again?

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2 minutes ago, Pilgrim said:

I am certain you raised your girls with lots of love and were the best Dad you could be. 

 

thanks,

My daughters Amerasin went through a lot because of this. 

They were raised to stand on their own dont make excuses

dont take excuses...Took em rock climbing, when they were babies carrying them in my arms as I climbed. 

"probably not the smartest thing to do, looking back on it." 

 

  taught em  martial arts at a young age

 

Made sure that they understand the western culture and their mothers culture

the can speak, read write in their mothers tongue.  Spent some time in hard assignments in 2ID in Korea.

allowing them to live in their mothers home land to gain experience with it.  

 

Encouraged them to be self sufficient not to depend on anyone.

told them if they hooked up with someone make sure he is their equal

 

 

 

 

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4 minutes ago, ilumairen said:

 

Did you just call me dishonest again?

 

you forgot confused

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1 minute ago, windwalker said:

 

you forgot confused

There is the argumentative streak. If one takes offense then one strikes back hard this is not the correct way. It is the martial way but it is not the correct way. An eye for an eye and soon are all blind. "My Paramaparamaguru Yoganandaji."

 

She is neither dishonest nor confused.

 

What she is, is a person working through what she knows. 

 

We are all doing this.

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33 minutes ago, windwalker said:

 

you forgot confused

 

So what exactly in your opinion am I dishonest and confused about?

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30 minutes ago, liminal_luke said:

Normally I´d say I was going to get popcorn about now, but tea seems to be the theme of the day.

 

tea1.png

 

I'd make you some. 

 

What would your preference be?

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8 minutes ago, ilumairen said:

 

I'd make you some. 

 

What would your preference be?

 

Earl Grey always hits the spot.

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Just now, liminal_luke said:

 

Earl Grey always hits the spot.

 

Earl Grey it is. 

 

:serving a nice steamy cup:

 

:wub:

 

 

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