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Posted (edited)
8 minutes ago, blue eyed snake said:

nope, not with you.

but I know I am

 

Haha

 

Just when I thought it was a human being.  You revert back to being a woman.

 

I wonder if you will view those  that are transsexual as being a real woman.  Let's hope so, being inclusive and all.

 

Wonder what you will say on you happened to be in direct competition with one of them.

Edited by windwalker

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9 minutes ago, blue eyed snake said:

that's beside the point.

I was talking about the place in society of women in general, your picking out something that is not relevant thereby trying to divert me.

 

What society?

 

Do you mean the US?

 

you do understand the rest of the world is very different in it's viewpoints on this.  

 

Why not take your cause to someplace say like Saudi Arabia, and begin there.

 

Why not use this place as a point from which to speak about inequalities.

 

 

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1 hour ago, blue eyed snake said:

In the Malleus maleficarum more than hitherto was warned against the woman as the greatest danger. The woman would naturally be bad, weak and inferior. Furthermore, she would be disbelieving, ambitious, vindictive, domineering, and greedy. Despite her outward attraction, it was advisable to stay away from her because she would have an insatiable carnal desire. Witches preferred to work in the field of reproduction and sexuality.

 

Indoctrination. 

 

Looking a bit deeper into this subject, I found this article:

 

https://www.faculty.umb.edu/gary_zabel/Courses/Phil 281b/Philosophy of Magic/Arcana/Witchcraft and Grimoires/case_witchhunts.html

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13 minutes ago, blue eyed snake said:

nope, I am human, and my essential humanity, or better, the essential humanity of women is denied them.

 

How does this work. The essential humanity of women is denied but the essential humanity of men is not acknowledged.

 

And yet both are human.

 

This line of thought would hold more weight if it was not being presented from a place in which

 

women have the most freedoms and opportunities than any other society in the world.

 

 

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50 minutes ago, windwalker said:

Your fight seems to be from a place where you have the most freedoms historically assuming your female

it would be better to go there and fight....better yet help those females who follow it in the US free themselves. from it.   You do, do that right...

 

yes, indeed, my granny and her contemporaries have fought for that, My mom and I follow in her footsteps. It's worth fighting for.

 In 1916 there were demonstrations for voting rights for everybody.

 

Algemeen-kiesrecht4-700x253.jpg

without fighting we would not have gotten what we have now.

That freedom was not a gift as you seem to imply.

 

And happily more and more women are joining, these women were not allowed to enter the temple...oh, that benogn fatherly societal structure. ( India january 2018)

Afbeeldingsresultaat voor tempel vrouwen india

 

 

Indian women were advised to stay inside their homes becuase of the risk of rape, again, that fatherly touch...They got rightly angry and protested, the males should keep their dicks in check and police should do what police is for. ( india, august 2017)

Afbeeldingsresultaat voor tempel vrouwen india

 

50 minutes ago, windwalker said:

 

A human assigning value to what animals do or not. 

 

you stated the comparison with animals, not I

 

50 minutes ago, windwalker said:

Its called survival of the fittest .  Unfortunately something that some dont seem to understand directly. 

 

again you imply I'm stupid, happily I'm not impressed.

 

50 minutes ago, windwalker said:

 

In directly its manfasted in who and what many females look for in a mate. 

 

manfasted is a nice slip of typing.

 

It's always interesting to hear males telling about what females look for in a mate :D

 

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Posted (edited)
8 minutes ago, blue eyed snake said:

It's always interesting to hear males telling about what females look for in a mate

 

Thank you.

 

It's always interesting reading those who have an agenda that is revealed.

 

Starting with we're all humans back to the proverbial "but" I am a "fill in appropriate victim status"

 

Now back to discussing points of history that some of never experienced.  But in some societies is still very much alive.

 

Makes sense

 

The word that this thread started with was an observation of what might be called a natural order observed in nature applied to humans.

 

The confusion for some has been suggested is due to the usage of the word other than as an observation.

Edited by windwalker

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Just now, windwalker said:

Now back to discussing points of history that some of never experienced. 

 

Just like those great long gone hunters you envision, as you walk into a grocery store to pick out your sushi...

 

:lol:

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Posted (edited)
6 minutes ago, ilumairen said:

 

Just like those great long gone hunters you envision, as you walk into a grocery store to pick out your sushi...

 

:lol:

 

Yep I must confess I do like sushi.

Being a solider serving in grunt units for 20yrs or so.

 

People are tested to their limits honing the skills to kill other humans or to prevent them from being killed by those other humans.

 

Humankind tend not to take kindly to those trying to kill them.

 

Enjoy your freedoms, that others died for.

Edited by windwalker

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This whole business of trying to have a conversation on the internet is predicated on the notion that the participants are well-intentioned rational human beings.  Sadly, as is evident here, this isn`t always the case.

 

It`s easy to get caught in the spider`s web.  I`ve often imagined that the right argument could set the troll-of-the-moment right  -- but there is no right argument and no winning.  Some people are simply beyond reach.  At least that`s been my experience.

 

No human being ought to be dominating anybody else by virtue of their gender.  Chimpanzees and hyenas might beg to differ and that`s fine; I`m not talking about them.  Anybody who says different isn`t worth having a conversation with.

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37 minutes ago, windwalker said:

 

I find what's interesting is that we're in a time and a place where women have the most freedom and opportunity to that historically they've ever had.

 

as I said, women have fought for that, it was not given to us by oour mighty benign  male counterparts 

 

37 minutes ago, windwalker said:

 

Many of them argue from a place the US where there's really not much to argue about.

 

 

 

Looks like me you dunno what you're talking about. Granted, much, very much is improved, but much in the way of equality is not there yet. And women will keep fighting for it.

( take a look at statistics about being poor for instance, or not having access to medical treatment when needed, or to the paygap et cetera)

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38 minutes ago, windwalker said:

I wonder if you will view those  that are transsexual as being a real woman.  Let's hope so, being inclusive and all.

 

I have many thoughts about that, but it does not belong in this thread.

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1 minute ago, blue eyed snake said:

 

as I said, women have fought for that, it was not given to us by oour mighty benign  male counterparts 

 

 

Looks like me you dunno what you're talking about. Granted, much, very much is improved, but much in the way of equality is not there yet. And women will keep fighting for it.

( take a look at statistics about being poor for instance, or not having access to medical treatment when needed, or to the paygap et cetera)

 

Comrade, 

 

I see the problem now you're living in the wrong country.

You can always move to one where all those things are provided for, courtesy of the state.

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34 minutes ago, windwalker said:

 

What society?

 

Do you mean the US?

 

you do understand the rest of the world is very different in it's viewpoints on this.  

 

Why not take your cause to someplace say like Saudi Arabia, and begin there.

 

Why not use this place as a point from which to speak about inequalities.

 

 

 

I live in Western Europe

you try to divert me to countries where women's rights are all but non existent, is not gonna work.

That things are worse somewhere else is no reason not to work on bettering things in the place where I live.

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1 minute ago, blue eyed snake said:

 

I have many thoughts about that, but it does not belong in this thread.

 

 males will believe they are females but are not biologically female don't count.

 

Are you insisting there is something intrinsic to biological females that males can never understand or know about.

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30 minutes ago, windwalker said:

This line of thought would hold more weight if it was not being presented from a place in which

 

women have the most freedoms and opportunities than any other society in the world.

 

Interesting.. you now employ the argument used against you in the Trump thread. 

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1 minute ago, blue eyed snake said:
38 minutes ago, windwalker said:

 

What society?

 

Do you mean the US?

 

you do understand the rest of the world is very different in it's viewpoints on this.  

 

Why not take your cause to someplace say like Saudi Arabia, and begin there.

 

Why not use this place as a point from which to speak about inequalities.

 

 

 

I live in Western Europe

 

 you can always move seems like a cultural problem.

 

Lots of communist Bloc countries surrounding you.  They advertise all the things you request.

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28 minutes ago, ilumairen said:

:sips tea:

 

enjoy, I'm having oolong Ti Kuan Yn, it's delicious, a gift from my grown son.

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Just now, blue eyed snake said:

 

enjoy, I'm having oolong Ti Kuan Yn, it's delicious, a gift from my grown son.

 

What a lovely gift.

 

It's vanilla chai for me. I was delighted when I saw it on the shelf in the grocery store, and got it for myself.  :D

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2 hours ago, ilumairen said:

 

First, thank you for the well thought out and presented post. 

 

 

I believe the author was including the beating she experienced as a child in her understanding of terrorism and violence, along with the fact that the story about the beating was often repeated, and in this, outwardly accepted by anyone hearing the story - lending credence to the idea of domination through psychological terrorism and violence. 

 

While considering this, I recalled a time when my friend's father called her name, and she replied, "yes?" without rising from our shared perch on the fireplace mantle. He was there in a moment, and she was dangling by her little arm as he repeatedly spanked her while I sat stunned. 

 

Then I recalled numerous stories shared by others regarding their fathers.. some of which included belts, some switches, and some just angry and punishing hands. 

 

From that point I started considering wife beating, and how long this was acceptable in the country in which I live.

 

From this perspective, the violence does seem to have been the norm, and seems to have been widely accepted.

 

I see that you touch on this a bit here:

 

 

It seems to me that it may have a great deal to do with indoctrination.

 

I may have led a sheltered life, or maybe I'm just lucky, as I have never witnessed this kind of behaviour.  In fact I was brought up with the injunction that a man should never lift his hand to a woman or child - as this would be unmanly.  This may be an example of positive indoctrination of course.  Clearly in some societies it is widespread and indeed as you say the patriarchal systems seem to at least turn a blind eye to it, if not endorse it exactly.  I guess it goes back to the idea of woman being the chattel of the man.  But it still seems to me that the idea here is that the man, having this ownership/responsibility is required to shoulder this responsibility in a proper way.  The fact that many men failed, were weak, gave in to violent tendencies is I suppose a fact.  But I still don't think that you can extrapolate this to saying that 'violence and terrorism' is the basis for patriarchy.  The basis is more about being a good father, a good husband and a good man generally.  It's weakness, alcohol, unresolved 'issues' and so on which lead to violence.

 

I don't want a patriarchy but I don't want chaos either.  I don't want a matriarchy as I think this would involve similar difficulties.  I want a society based on individual rights and responsibilities.  I hope one day we'll get there.

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48 minutes ago, ilumairen said:

 

Indoctrination. 

 

Looking a bit deeper into this subject, I found this article:

 

https://www.faculty.umb.edu/gary_zabel/Courses/Phil 281b/Philosophy of Magic/Arcana/Witchcraft and Grimoires/case_witchhunts.html

 

thanks, that looks interesting, long read though. It's some thirty years ago that I've been reading on the subject. Maybe it's time to freshen up my knowledge.

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47 minutes ago, windwalker said:

 

How does this work. The essential humanity of women is denied but the essential humanity of men is not acknowledged.

 

I have not said or thought that.

 

47 minutes ago, windwalker said:

 

And yet both are human.

 

of course we are, and equal, that equality  is not yet recognized by many men, hence my vehemence. especially as I see ( in my country) that things are reverting backwards.

 

47 minutes ago, windwalker said:

 

This line of thought would hold more weight if it was not being presented from a place in which

 

women have the most freedoms and opportunities than any other society in the world.

 

 

 

you're repeating yourself for the third time here, it is not a valid argument.

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I'm resisting the temptation to post a Monty Python 'we found a witch may we burn her' video link.

 

 

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24 minutes ago, windwalker said:

 

Comrade, 

 

I see the problem now you're living in the wrong country.

You can always move to one where all those things are provided for, courtesy of the state.

 

:blink: first it was something about inclusiveness

 

now it's comrade?? :rolleyes:

 

implying that I want ( or need) to hold up my hand for my living, I wonder what you read between the lines.

Its far beyond reality.

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