rideforever

Gratitude for the Male Patriarchy

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4 hours ago, Patrick Brown said:

Is whitesilk trolling again? Why hasn't this member received a suspension? 

 

Perhaps because he hasn't done anything to warrant suspension?

 

Are you trying to suppress a voice that disagrees with yours?

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4 hours ago, rideforever said:

Whitesilk, the question is can you personally do anything.
Stop pointing at the women.
Get the mirror out.
What is your competence.
Or you just talk ?

 

:lol: This sayeth he who points... 

 

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Well the way I see it is we can take the attitudes expressed here as those of males that do not want to actually find what it means to be a man in today’s world falling back on old models.

 

This is not really their fault.

 

During the 1960’s the baby boomers tore down social conventions and failed to replace it with anything of value.

 

Their values:

 

I’m number 1

 

Do what feels good and a whole litany of preposterous interpretations of life based on surplus and abundance such as the world has never know which alone allowed the advent of such preposterous interpretations on life and the human condition.

 

We see echoes of the absurdity till this day.

 

Everyone wants to define themselves as something, heck people even think they are women or men though born with specific reproductive organs that clearly denote gender.

 

People are lost in a world of abstracts and fantasy thinking.

 

No one has the right to tell a woman or a man how to be anymore and people are not being raised.

 

Clearly the attitudes and ideals expressed here in this thread by the OP and like minded are a throw back to a earlier time.

 

I submit the ideals espoused should be placed in a cryogenic capsule with a sign stating break glass in case of return to primitive times.

 

Gentlemen the definition of intelligence is ones ability to adapt to prevailing  conditions in the time you are living.

 

Sorry no old school this is the way it has been or should be works anymore you need to open your eyes and be here now.

 

Now is pretty good but you have to define yourself according to the times no one can teach you how to be a man of today and yesteryear is already gone.

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7 hours ago, rideforever said:

For hundreds of thousands of years the Man was King, he killed everything, he won everything, he made everything.

...
Call it the "male patriarchy" whatever that means.
...

Did the women hunt ?

History is full of kick-ass women. Just a small sample:

The ancient world was full of warrior women – and men were terrified of them

Famous Viking Warrior Was a Woman, DNA Reveals

9 Female Warriors Who Made Their Mark On History

Edited by rex
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5 minutes ago, Aetherous said:

I thought the thread was going to have a vibe of gratitude.

 

Thank you to the innumerable ancestors who have gone before us and made our present existence possible. 

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Thank you to the men who sheltered and protected and the women who birthed and nurtured. And to the women who sheltered and protected and the men who nurtured.

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Continuing the theme of gratitude, here`s a poem I love by W.S. Merwin.

 

~

Thanks

 

Listen
with the night falling we are saying thank you
we are stopping on the bridges to bow for the railings
we are running out of the glass rooms
with our mouths full of food to look at the sky
and say thank you
we are standing by the water looking out
in different directions.

 

back from a series of hospitals back from a mugging
after funerals we are saying thank you
after the news of the dead
whether or not we knew them we are saying thank you
looking up from tables we are saying thank you
in a culture up to its chin in shame
living in the stench it has chosen we are saying thank you
over telephones we are saying thank you
in doorways and in the backs of cars and in elevators
remembering wars and the police at the back door
and the beatings on stairs we are saying thank you
in the banks that use us we are saying thank you
with the crooks in office with the rich and fashionable
unchanged we go on saying thank you thank you

 

with the animals dying around us
our lost feelings we are saying thank you
with the forests falling faster than the minutes
of our lives we are saying thank you
with the words going out like cells of a brain
with the cities growing over us like the earth
we are saying thank you faster and faster
with nobody listening we are saying thank you
we are saying thank you and waving
dark though it is

 

W.S. Merwin

Edited by liminal_luke
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I have a lot of hope for men, since I think masculinity at its core is compassion.

When it doesn't appear that way, as so often happens, it seems to me that "men" have lost their way - they became feminized.

Most often, they weren't guided and raised by a good man, and therefore don't know who to emulate, if anyone, and because of that they don't know who they are. At a certain period in history, the rites of passage into manhood were no longer practiced, and it was up to the individual father to do that; many eventually didn't understand the importance of it and stopped "raising" their sons, if they were even raised themselves. As such, I think it's essential for discussions to take place about what masculinity is, and for men to become truly masculine so as to lead by example...so that adult boys can finally understand, and be raised into men, coming into alignment with their true nature - of compassionate strength.

I think the increasingly poor relationships between fathers and mothers is the primary reason why good men aren't raising children appropriately (basically, aren't being true fathers)...and that as individuals, it's up to us to go against the way of society, and make waves in the world by intentionally living in the right way. We are all individuals, so we only have half of the say when it comes to our relationships...and we just have to try our best. It's my belief that women are responsible for many broken families in our society, against their own benefit, but some men end up being the culprit, too.

I heard recently of a man whose wife cheated on him and divorced him...who every year, brings her a birthday cake and presents to celebrate with the kids. Someone asked him why he did it after what she did to him, and he said it was to show his children how a man treats a woman. That is masculinity.

Here's one of my favorite thinkers on the subject of gender and relationships (who is a woman), writing about masculinity in a recent piece:

 

https://thefederalist.com/2019/01/15/dont-need-less-traditional-masculinity-need/

On the subject of the patriarchy: I don't know what that is.

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1 hour ago, Aetherous said:

I have a lot of hope for men, since I think masculinity at its core is compassion.

 

I agree, it's the healthy building kind of masculinity. Sadly quite missing in society as of late.

 

Quote

On the subject of the patriarchy: I don't know what that is.

 

It's sidelining women in decision making process and trivializing them as either objects or as non-existent people. In some patriarchal family structure you can have honor killings of women who don't obey the father or her brothers in their lives. A woman having multiple sexual partners is seen as bad while a man doing the same thing is a hero. Societies can kill of female children at times when they feel the male children are better. Pioneering work in computer programming was done by six women working with the ENIAC, though their achievements were recognized only after their time when most of them were dead. Historians just thought they were women posing next to equipment as models and ignored them in the writing. Sidelining women for no other reason is invisible to many men, after all we don't experience the same things.

 

Something that the feminists struggled against in the not so far off past is now becoming a distant thing for most of us, but still a reality in some parts of the world. It's quite readily apparent that we've moved on from much of that. Such things motivated earlier feminists and still do in less fortunate parts of the world. The kind of feminists that become a joke in public discourse are of course removed from such struggles and probably just using the term as a cover for misandry and become unwitting tools for male versions of themselves in the political arena.

Edited by kondensation
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15 minutes ago, kondensation said:

It's sidelining women in decision making process and trivializing them as either objects or as non-existent people. In some patriarchal family structure you can have honor killings of women who don't obey the father or her brothers in their lives. A woman having multiple sexual partners is seen as bad while a man doing the same thing is a hero. Societies can kill of female children at times when they feel the male children are better. Pioneering work in computer programming was done by six women working with the ENIAC, though their achievements were recognized only after their time when most of them were dead. Historians just thought they were women posing next to equipment as models and ignored them in the writing. Sidelining women for no other reason is invisible to many men, after all we don't experience the same things.

 

Something that the feminists struggled against in the not so far off past is now becoming a thing of the distant past for most of us, but still a reality in some parts of the world. It's quite readily apparent that we've moved on from much of that. Such things motivated earlier feminists and still do in less fortunate parts of the world. The kind of feminists that become a joke in public discourse are of course removed from such struggles and probably just using the term as a cover for misandry and become unwitting tools for male versions of themselves in the political arena.

 

Spot on! No gratitude for that.

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Nice post @kondensation well stated. It's sad, imo, that some efforts have gone to the extreme. For example, university courses (in the US) for 'Overcoming Toxic Masculinity'...not so subtly suggesting masculinity needs purging.. which is their intent - but for much different reasons that are too off-topic to explore here.

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There`s certainly a lot of man-bashing out there, no doubt about that.  It`s important to think of masculinity as the positive force in the world that it is, just as femininity is a positive force.  

 

I disagree though with the notion that people "should" act like their genitals.  Some people with female anatomy are naturally more yang and vice versa.  As we celebrate positive masculinity, lets not force all men to fit into any one mold.

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The bottom line for the sexes is

We need each other and

We compliment each other. 

 

in truth, we're not so different.

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2 hours ago, liminal_luke said:

I disagree though with the notion that people "should" act like their genitals.  Some people with female anatomy are naturally more yang and vice versa.  As we celebrate positive masculinity, lets not force all men to fit into any one mold.

 

People should be authentic and as true to their nature as possible. It's not a good world that forces someone to be something other than what they are.

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A way can be a guide, I take comfort in the knowledge that the unguided will soon perish. Since I haven't perished or parished yet, I take further comfort that something is guiding me.

 

DUH, I am no expert on why people do what they do, I do not want to presume other's motivations, can I take back and undo this post?

Edited by whitesilk

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The industrial world loves nothing more than men as boys and women as girls, who never grow up, never do anything except consume.   These won't threaten them. 

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1 hour ago, rideforever said:

The industrial world loves nothing more than men as boys and women as girls, who never grow up, never do anything except consume.   These won't threaten them. 

Reminds me of this from Epictetus:

"You become what you give your attention to ... If you yourself don't choose what thoughts and images you expose yourself to, someone else will".

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1 hour ago, rex said:

"You become what you give your attention to ... If you yourself don't choose what thoughts and images you expose yourself to, someone else will".

 

Yes and more than that ... attention flowing outwards into images is in itself degenerating, it's leakage from the eyes.
But if it inspires you to self-action it can be informative from time to time.

Through engagement in life we build ourselves.  Modern industrial society has removed many opportunities for engagement which are "natural", so these have to be replaced or found in a different way if you wish to grow. 

Society is actually full of opportunities, but you can't live it as others do, as a consumer and pleasure seeker, leaking outwards, but you can seek to become within it.   Then many things are possible even right in the middle of it.
And more than that we could say that our society with its benefits and securities etc...  the hope of past generations was for us to continue growing through it.   But as empires rise and fall we see that the rule is it easily turns to pleasure and consumerism and then weakening and then falling.   Rather than continued growth.  Growth must be earned by people developing themselves in society as individuals with competencies.

Maybe we can do better this time.

 

 

Edited by rideforever
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