Standing Qigong pain issue

[awarenessrules]

I have recently started standing qigong but I am having some pain issues. I do the wuji position with feet hips width apart. As soon as I bend the knees for the position, within 5 mins I develop a boring pain in my right hip extending to the back of thigh. Also with bend knees I feel more weight on right foot than the left. Is this some alignment issue? How can I correct this issue to have equal weight on both feet? That would also solve the right hip pain I think. Any suggestions? Thanks

[rideforever]

You can try some different things :
Stand high

Inside of feet parallel, feet hip width apart

Relax the tissues of your whole body, imagine you are in a warm hot springs feel the whole body let go more and more

Sense the soles of the feet, what is their relative state ?

It is important to try and get the soles to be fully in contact, it might necessitate a little adjustment
It is common to experience one side more that the other, this changes over time

When the wuji is more estalished after a few weeks you can try add in a right weighted or left weighted stance, described in Lam Kan Chuen's Way of Energy, also toe and heel stances

Before beginning thoroughly shake yourself out, very thoroughly for several minutes including legs

Don't hurt yourself

Consciously relax, or breathe into, the problematic area (can be tried from time to time), in general just allow the energy to flow through
 

[Aetherous]

47 minutes ago, awarenessrules said:

How can I correct this issue to have equal weight on both feet?

 

First of all, comprehensively stretch the: hip flexors, quads, hamstrings, adductors, IT band, and piriformis. All of these need to be super limber.

If that doesn't help, then see someone who specializes in Muscle Energy Technique for the pelvis and sacrum.

[Rara]

I'll keep my eye on this thread. I still have back pain when I do tai chi and I worry that my teenage, early adult lazy posture is to blame. Maybe it's just damage limitation from here.

 

In your case though, I hope not! Similar to post above by @Aetherous, I'm still working my hip flexors and keeping the glutes stong with the hope that it is "lack of back support", that is casing the issue, rather than the back itself!

[lifeforce]

Try a moving or sitting qigong instead. Standing might not be suitable for you. Trial and error. We're all different and function certain ways.

[freeform]

As Aetherous says - lots of stretching and joint mobility work. This is a necessary component of Qigong - and a good way to warm up before your standing practice.

[awarenessrules]

6 hours ago, rideforever said:

You can try some different things :
Stand high

Inside of feet parallel, feet hip width apart

Relax the tissues of your whole body, imagine you are in a warm hot springs feel the whole body let go more and more

Sense the soles of the feet, what is their relative state ?

It is important to try and get the soles to be fully in contact, it might necessitate a little adjustment
It is common to experience one side more that the other, this changes over time

When the wuji is more estalished after a few weeks you can try add in a right weighted or left weighted stance, described in Lam Kan Chuen's Way of Energy, also toe and heel stances

Before beginning thoroughly shake yourself out, very thoroughly for several minutes including legs

Don't hurt yourself

Consciously relax, or breathe into, the problematic area (can be tried from time to time), in general just allow the energy to flow through
 

 

Thanks, I try my best to relax myself. I do not feel the pain when I stand high but as soon as I bend the knees slightly, the pain begins and the I feel more weight on right foot than the left. The reason I like to bend knees is that I feel the energy moving in my body but due to pain I stop. Without bending the knees I do not feel anything while standing. I have tried the stretching but that did not help. I think I have an alignment issue in hip area but do not know how to correct it.

[rideforever]

This is normal everyone has many alignment issues, if you practice well it will unblock itself, that is the point of ZZ, that the energy itself will unblock and shake out the blockages and misalignments over time.   On youtube there are some videos by Mark Cohen where he discusses these things.

[freeform]

6 hours ago, awarenessrules said:

I have tried the stretching

 

How long for? Which stretches?

 

In general I do about an hours worth of stretching and joint mobility work per day. Some days way more. I’ve been doing this for many years. It takes a long while for the body to open. 

 

The way I’ve learned it, standing practice is not for opening the body and mobilising Qi, but for building structure and correct body principles. Later it can also be used for filling with Qi.

 

6 hours ago, awarenessrules said:

The reason I like to bend knees

 

You’re right to bend the knees. What about your kua and your hip joints? Do you sink into those? Do you go to sit on the imaginary bar stool behind you?

 

[Rocky Lionmouth]

General tip:

 

besides whats been already said about stretching i also recommend you practice the ”squat” style of sitting.

 

Your goal is to be able to sit like that comfortably, both solesof feet fully on the ground and keep your balance. No lifted heels or putting your weight more to one side. Thats your goal, if you don’t already know how to do this it’s time to just try it out and see how far off the mark you are.

 

It requires you to have good mobility in hip joints, lumbar region of spine, perineum, lower abdomen and so on. It’s a great corrector for spinal alignment once you’ve learned it, it’ll set your back straight within seconds if you’ve been doing some bad sort of tension or imbalanced knot over there.

 

Also, consider standing short periods. Sometimes it’s not the quantity of the standing but the quality of work you do standing. Five good minutes is far better than 45 struggling painful minutes imo.

Ymmv of course.

[idquest]

There can be many reasons for the pain but the most likely is that some of the muscles in you right hip are frozen and weak, so the other groups of muscles have to compensate. To resolve the issue - you have to not only stretch the affected area but also strengthen the weak group of muscles. You can also read this blog post on hip pain:

http://sequencewiz.org/2014/05/14/three-types-pain-butt-can/

 

[Rocky Lionmouth]

Agreeing with the above and would like to add the following general tip:

 

Train all the muscles from your toes and upwards a lot with not too mich intensity, develop both strenght and control. Stand on your toes with feet together and try to slowly lower yourself to a minimum amount of air between your heel ans the floor, push yourself up with vigor and then descend slowly, very slowly again.

Train your calfs similarly, your thighs, stand on one leg until it becomes second nature without wobbles or effort, do kick exercises on one leg etc. Do balance exercises, do knee lifts and kicks without dipping your shoulders or stiffening your supporting leg.

Do all of these excersises and try to not break a sweat, stay as close to a naturally relaxed and vigorous posture, keep your movements as loose as possible without them being sloppy, use grace.

 

All that stuff will aid tremendously with standing, it will build the appropriate muscles and control and as long as you build slowly and develop your exercises with care you’ll se other benefits as well.

[awarenessrules]

Thank You all for your awesome suggestions. Whenever i do some stretching after 5 min standing, it really brings some relief but then again when i do the standing it all starts again. The exercise that helps me most with pain is when i bend my knee and bring it closer to my chest with both hands while lying on my back, it really relaxes the aching muscle. I think i have some muscle weakness in that area.

[Pero]

On 23. 2. 2019 at 11:12 PM, freeform said:

As Aetherous says - lots of stretching and joint mobility work. This is a necessary component of Qigong - and a good way to warm up before your standing practice.

Anything in particular you recommend?

 

On 24. 2. 2019 at 10:34 AM, freeform said:

How long for? Which stretches?

 

In general I do about an hours worth of stretching and joint mobility work per day. Some days way more. I’ve been doing this for many years. It takes a long while for the body to open. 

 

The way I’ve learned it, standing practice is not for opening the body and mobilising Qi, but for building structure and correct body principles. Later it can also be used for filling with Qi.

Wow an hour a day?! Damn... 

What do you mean with "opening the body"?

 

[escott]

Have you looked into "lateral pelvic tilt" being the cause? I had this issue, likely from slouching in office chairs for over 25 years. If you look at yourself naked in the mirror can you see if one hip bone is higher than the other or does one side of your abdomen look shorter? @Aetherous gave you some good info - it's all in the hip flexors. Also, the glutes may need some strengthening. What really helped me was getting IASTM from a good chiropractor. Once she broke things lose I was able to ease into exercising again. Use a foam roller for maintenance all around the thighs  - outer (IT band, it's gonna hurt!), front, and inner (adductors). Gently stretch the psoas. To strengthen the hips: on hands and knees - kick backs and fire hydrants, clam shells, and lunges, lunges, lunges.

Edited March 1, 2019 by escott

[freeform]

1 hour ago, Pero said:

Wow an hour a day?! Damn... 

What do you mean with "opening the body"?

 

Haha yeah I know.

 

But this is generally broken up over two or more sessions.

 

And I’m pretty obsessive about training - wouldn’t really recommend it to everyone. I do between 2 and 4hrs of training per day in total.

 

In this context by ‘opening the body’ I mean just loosening joints, stretching out and ‘untightening’ - nothing too esoteric.  

 

1 hour ago, Pero said:

Anything in particular you recommend?

 

That’s tricky. I combine quite a few things. I also focus on one a particular area at times (shoulders/hips/neck/spine)...

 

A lot of the stretches I’ve seen Chinese martial arts practitioners performing for example.

 

I also combine some joint mobility drills from Scott Sonnon. And some bodyweight strength training - animal walks, some bagua style leg strength and various core strength routines (planks etc).

 

I’ll have a look for some videos on YouTube if that helps.

[freeform]

 

https://youtu.be/iW0_U1O3ynQ

 

https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLFB458458F14ED867

 

 

these sorts of things

 

[awarenessrules]

Can Feldenkrais method help me with this issue? I have heard some good things about it. Its a very subtle method and does not require intense stretching.

[Mudfoot]

3 minutes ago, awarenessrules said:

Can Feldenkrais method help me with this issue? 

It might be worth a try. 

"It depends..." 

[Pero]

1 hour ago, freeform said:

...

And I’m pretty obsessive about training - wouldn’t really recommend it to everyone. I do between 2 and 4hrs of training per day in total.

....

I’ll have a look for some videos on YouTube if that helps.

Cool, I don't think I'd be able to manage more than two hours regularly without working less which isn't possible.

 

Been meaning to watch that first stretching video but keep forgetting it (the second one is a bit much for me though hehe). I like Intuflow and had occasional periods of a month or two over the years where I practiced it daily. Will give the whole thing a go before standing training and see if I feel any difference. Thanks!

[freeform]

22 minutes ago, Pero said:

Cool, I don't think I'd be able to manage more than two hours regularly without working less which isn't possible.

 

I think that’s more than enough for most people. Don’t do more than is fun for you.

 

Consistency is key really - better to stick to 30 minutes daily than 2hrs three times a week if that makes sense.

[dwai]

As part of your warm up, try to do this posture at least 3-5 times, holding the posture for at least 3 breaths. Stand up between each iteration. Soon your kua will relax and open up. 

 

https://www.verywellfit.com/garland-pose-malasana-3567079

 

Also do this - https://taiji-forum.com/qigong-beginners/warmup-waist-circles/

 

 

Edited February 25, 2019 by dwai

[Creation]

6 hours ago, freeform said:

 

https://youtu.be/iW0_U1O3ynQ

 

https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLFB458458F14ED867

 

 

these sorts of things

 

Thanks for these, they are very appropriate for me at the moment.

 

Also, hello, it's nice to see you around.

[Rocky Lionmouth]

If anyone wants to know what exercises are good to do everyday and just study the crap out of then take ones from the song gong video and similar with such detailed description and give them five years at least before you evaluate. Boy will you see results!

 

I have a set of different exercises that do the exact same principles and so on and i am not allowed to post them online because i have vowed to teach people directly and IRL but believe you me, song gong is THE thing to do, wether you’re just doing qigong or taiji or martial arts or just looking to have a body that is more functional. Hours lut in the gym should at least be at a 0.5 ratio with hours spent dling these sorts of exercises. 

That right there is the kind of stuff i’ve been nagging my students about for years to impress on them how much you need to build the basics to even get anywhere in the benefits or usage of our art.

Do they listen?! No! Wait, well yes they do and they work hard at it but i have yet to be able to transmit the sheer importance of them and the passion i have for our song seut.

I’m thinking of marketing them as ”the ultimate secret, it’s actually a fifteenth dan level practice but i’ll teach it to you just because you’re good students.”

 

 

Fucking brilliant that you found them and put them up @freeform 

[Pero]

22 hours ago, freeform said:

 

I think that’s more than enough for most people. Don’t do more than is fun for you.

 

Consistency is key really - better to stick to 30 minutes daily than 2hrs three times a week if that makes sense.

Yeah that's something I'm beginning to learn, though very slowly lol. Been told by others in the past but I kept going something like from zero to 2 hours per day for a month and then nothing for the next month, then repeat again lol. Although part of it for me is also other things happening in life. Anyway now I'm just trying not to be too mechanical about the whole thing and enjoy myself like you mentioned and also go more by how I feel than by time I set for practice. Seems easier to be consistent that way too, though I'll see how it goes forward. It's kind of weird though because sometimes I feel I'm doing way less but somehow manage to make some progress better than when I put in more time.