yuuichi

Why do we fall in love, or have romantic affection to people of the opposite sex?

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I think the best modern science has to offer to explain why someone can fall in love with someone of the opposite sex (or someone of the same gender for a few people) is that for some unexplained reason, looking at an attractive person causes a sudden increase in dopamine in the brain, causing attachment to that person. The more one gets to know that person, the more the hormone oxytocin increases, increasing feelings of love and affection for that person. Of course there are a few more variables involved, but that seems to be the general idea (though I’m not an expert).

 

Since the causes and general process of falling in love still is generally unknown to modern science (from what I’m aware), maybe philosophical and traditional ideas (like the Daoist understanding of qi and the human body) can give a better explanation?

 

However, what a lot of traditional ideas seem to forget is that a lot of people fall in love without meeting in person. I’m expecting a lot of people to say (i’m assuming) that there is a mysterious exchange in male and female qi, and this causes the feeling of love. But a man can just look at a photo of a very attractive woman and by the time of interacting with her online, or even by just looking at her photo, a man can feel a strong romantic feeling towards that particular woman. There is obviously no exchange of qi, but the man still started to develop romantic feelings for that woman. That’s just an example, but I wrote it to show it can’t just be as simple as some mysterious exhange of male and female qi when a man and woman are in close proximity.

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OK lets sort this out! Yes it's a problem we all have and is only exacerbated by a system which has realised it's potency as a control mechanism. People who seek power will always strive to control others for their own gain. Armies are built and empires created but only by those that are enslaved. The many serving the few and few only serving themselves deep in the mire of their own self deception. It is true to say that you can't truly love another until you've learnt to love yourself and of course once you've found yourself you don't see other people in the same old way.

 

The heart is whole and complete but because the mind takes us away from reality and into a fantasy of conceptualising we are fooled into thinking that we are somehow lacking something other than ourselves. We take on stereotypes and follow rules as to how we should act, yes act as if pretending to be something other than ourselves! In a state of confusion we see loneliness in others and wish to comfort them but as we have become confused, ensnared and conditioned we misunderstand the mutual care that arises and term it love. We are also attracted to that part of ourselves we have buried deep as we see it reflected in others. We seek our self in others yet know not what we do! 

 

The pain people feel when falling in love is truly the heart breaking as the self falls further away from reality and deeper into the fantasy of 'other than'. Our desire then takes us even further away from the now convincing us that together we are one and reliant on the other to be complete. Of course this 'other than' isn't normally mutual and if one party leaves the self can be left feeling incomplete and so the illusion is reinforced as they seek their 'other than' forgetting the simple stillness that the heart once enjoyed when we were ourselves. This illusion is further breed into us generation to generation keeping us enslaved while serving the lived (devil). 

 

This process of ensnarement is obviously complex and has evolved over thousands of years but the heart doesn't forget itself even though the mind has become enslaved and confused. I don't write this glibly but from experience and do so in the hope that it may point the reader in the right direction.  

Edited by Patrick Brown
few typos

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If falling in love were not such a strong biochemical drive and could be eliminated from our instinct to procreate then most of us would have enough conscious awareness of what we are about to get into. But of course, there would be fewer people on this Earth. 

 

Jim D.

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What level of degeneration do you reach when your primary function is questioned ?

What comes next, why do I breathe ?  
Do I have to shit if I don't want to ?

Why do I have blood ?

A strangely deranged world is coming.

 

Tonight on the News it will say : "Science Says Jump In The Lake".
And Tomorrow you will see 95% of your neighbours leaving the house early wearing their swim gear looking for the nearest puddle.

 

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What an absolute worthless response. Nothing wrong with being curious about something so universal and yet so unknown.

 

Quote

What comes next, why do I breathe?

 

A good inquiry if someone wants to be a doctor, treat people with breathing problems, practice meditation, and so on.

 

Please don't bother responding to my threads again, thanks.

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2 minutes ago, yuuichi said:

Please don't bother responding to my threads again, thanks.

 

Please don't bother creating threads on my internet again, thanks.

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Since we are inhabiting physical bodies, any psychological processes will be accompanied by biochemical correlates. That does not mean that the former are a result of the latter and could be reduced to them.

 

Most spiritual systems know various subtle levels of human anatomy which correspond with our thinking and emotions and also control our physical processes while, to some degree, they are susceptible to them at the same time. So there is two-way action taking place.

 

Thus, while hormones, pheromones etc do play a role, sexual and romantic attraction and love are multi-dimensional phenomena that cause resonance on multiple levels of our being.

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4 minutes ago, Michael Sternbach said:

Since we are inhabiting physical bodies, any psychological processes will be accompanied by biochemical correlates. That does not mean that the former are a result of the latter and could be reduced to them.

 

Most spiritual systems know various subtle levels of human anatomy which correspond with our thinking and emotions and also control our physical processes while, to some degree, they are susceptible to them at the same time. So there is two-way action taking place.

 

Thus, while hormones, pheromones etc do play a role, sexual and romantic attraction and love are multi-dimensional phenomena that cause resonance on multiple levels of our being.

 

But if people have brain damage that prohibits the normal production or reaction to dopamine or oxytocin (for example), they are highly likely to not have regular experiences in love and romance like a normal person does. A person who's brain does not react to dopamine would likely not be interested in the opposite sex, therefore it appears that what is spiritual doesn't seem to matter.

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3 minutes ago, yuuichi said:

 

But if people have brain damage that prohibits the normal production or reaction to dopamine or oxytocin (for example), they are highly likely to not have regular experiences in love and romance like a normal person does. A person who's brain does not react to dopamine would likely not be interested in the opposite sex, therefore it appears that what is spiritual doesn't seem to matter.

 

And it doesn't really explain gays, lesbians and bisexuals . 

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2 minutes ago, yuuichi said:

 

But if people have brain damage that prohibits the normal production or reaction to dopamine or oxytocin (for example), they are highly likely to not have regular experiences in love and romance like a normal person does. A person who's brain does not react to dopamine would likely not be interested in the opposite sex, therefore it appears that what is spiritual doesn't seem to matter.

 

As long as our subtle bodies are connected to the physical body, they are tied in with - and often limited by - the processes of the latter. It is true that under certain circumstances, the subtle levels can bypass or override the physical, but this is not generally the case.

 

That therefore the subtle/spiritual dimension would be of no consequence is a non-sequitur. A dead body shows no reactions of a sexual or romantic nature...

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And yes, subtle energy flows (referred to as chi in Chinese tradition) are involved in attraction and love, and they are not obstructed by walls or distance.

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1 minute ago, Michael Sternbach said:

 

As long as our subtle bodies are connected to the physical body, they are tied in with - and often limited by - the processes of the latter. It is true that under certain circumstances, the subtle levels can bypass or override the physical, but this is not generally the case.

 

That therefore the subtle/spiritual dimension would be of no consequence is a non-sequitur. A dead body shows no reactions of a sexual or romantic nature...

 

I think this debate of whether Spirit has any effect upon the body is hard to continue until we can both agree what Spirit actually is. Can we both agree it is some sort of subtle energy flow through the body?

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5 minutes ago, Michael Sternbach said:

And yes, subtle energy flows (referred to as chi in Chinese tradition) are involved in attraction and love, and they are not obstructed by walls or distance.

 

But if that was true, surely adult actresses would have noticed something, from millions of men sending their qi or subtle energy to them?

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2 hours ago, Jim D. said:

If falling in love were not such a strong biochemical drive and could be eliminated from our instinct to procreate then most of us would have enough conscious awareness of what we are about to get into. But of course, there would be fewer people on this Earth. 

 

Jim D.

 

Yes - it's as simple as that. But apparently the Bums here don't like the idea that people are also evolved animals with instincts that bear the stamp of evolution.

 

Edited by wandelaar
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Just now, yuuichi said:

 

I think this debate of whether Spirit has any effect upon the body is hard to continue until we can both agree what Spirit actually is. Can we both agree it is some sort of subtle energy flow through the body?

 

Not incorrect. To be more exact though, there are multiple levels of subtle energy pertaining to the spiritual, mental, emotional, etheric levels of our existence (different systems vary somewhat in regards to the exact number and nature of these levels, but there is great agreement as far as the basic conception is concerned). The etheric body is the one that is least subtle and closest to the physical. Providing an interface to and from the more subtle bodies.

 

Spirit generally refers either to the mind or to the soul. There is some ambiguity here; soul and spirit sometimes swap their places in the literature.

 

It would be quite accurate to talk about a flow of etheric energy through the body. This is primarily what you are dealing with, e.g., in TCM.

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13 minutes ago, yuuichi said:

 

But if that was true, surely adult actresses would have noticed something, from millions of men sending their qi or subtle energy to them?

 

I actually once read an interview with an adult actress saying she felt that and felt empowered by it. Similar statements can occasionally be heard from a stripper.

 

Relatively few people become consciously aware of chi projected at them, however, apart from the psychological effects etc it might have on them.

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Is this flow of etheric energy what traditional chinese medicine practioners and/or Daoists assume qi to be?

 

Also I'm quite interested in what you said previously. You said that the interaction of the subtle bodies of male and female are involved in the formation of love, but how does this process come about? 

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5 minutes ago, wandelaar said:

 

Yes - it's as simple as that. But apparently the Bums here don't like the idea that people are also evolved animals with instincts that bear the stamp of evolution.

 

 

But there are humans closer to animals and humans closer to...!

 

If you give way to animal instincts you are acting like an animal. If you aspire to be as great as you can be then you are reaching towards godliness. 

 

If a man and women decide to copulate and breed that is the way of animals. The greater journey which requires real effort is for each to discover.

 

Within the human sphere there are many divisions although few truly understand this. I wouldn't even say that those aspiring to godliness are greater than anyone else but they are not allowing themselves to be blown around by their uncontrolled desires. 

 

Do people kill for love? Do people kill to protect their family? Is killing right? If you say "under certain circumstances" I would argue that killing 99% of the worlds population might be a good move for mankind's survival!  

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1 minute ago, wandelaar said:

Moral questions don't disprove facts.

 

What facts?

Be careful, fact and not delusion right? Are we going to say "the fact is I love her"?!!!!!!!!!!!

 

Please don't go there? 

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1 minute ago, yuuichi said:

Is this flow of etheric energy what traditional chinese medicine practioners and/or Daoists assume qi to be?

 

To be exact, Chinese traditions refer to subtle energies in three forms (or levels of refinement) called qi, jing and shen (the so-called "three treasures"). Again, there is some ambiguity in the exact application of these terms.

 

But it is fair to say that etheric energy is a form of qi.

 

1 minute ago, yuuichi said:

 

Also I'm quite interested in what you said previously. You said that the interaction of the subtle bodies of male and female are involved in the formation of love, but how does this process come about? 

 

By resonance between those subtle bodies, due to likeness as well as to the need for supplementation.

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4 minutes ago, Patrick Brown said:

What facts?

Be careful, fact and not delusion right? Are we going to say "the fact is I love her"?!!!!!!!!!!!

 

Please don't go there? 

 

You can go on adding still more questions. But this topic is just about this one:

 

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Why do we fall in love, or have romantic affection to people of the opposite sex?

 

And there is a simple evolutionary answer for that. But romantics don't like that answer because they want to see love as something heavenly and not of this earth. And so the simple answer will be ignored. But I'm not going to press my point any further, as I know this to be useless.

 

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17 minutes ago, Michael Sternbach said:

By resonance between those subtle bodies, due to likeness as well as to the need for supplementation.

But by definition, resonance involves both bodies reacting equally with each other. Yet I assume in most situations, attraction is initially very unequal (for example, a man may see a beautiful woman from afar and he becomes attracted to her without any effect upon her. A woman may also be deeply in love with a famous person, but when she goes to his concert or event, he has no romantic interest in her at all).

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