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@Jeff

 

Wow awesome, I really like Christian mysticism especially the old seclusion methods very amazing work.

 

Although it's hard to find now I'm afraid, our master jesus did leave behind 5 main schools and only one truly kept going through the essenes and their practises. That tap has almost dried up.

 

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@dwai 

 

Thanks for your interest and similar experience with your own teachers, try to stay in the company of those who have the rabita/connection it's very important.

 

If it's OK with you I don't want to box myself in to any particular sufi order, I belong to all and I'm a bridge for others to cross. *bow*

 

@Still_Waters

 

The concept of dieing before death shows us that there is no such thing as a death and that it's only a door opening to another side into a new scenery.

 

In sufism this state happens during meditation just like you mentioned our Tibetan elders do the same, there's no more fear of dieing it's like taking of a coat nothing more.

 

@Nungali

 

Hello my brother very interesting experience, from my own experience it seems like this experience maybe mostly based around elf/fairy/jinn gatherings.

 

My advise as a brother for you would be to try to go beyond this and every night read salamun qawlan min rabbin raheem ("peace" a word from a merciful lord). This will help go past those gatherings and I have been given permission by my master to pass this onto you.

 

But this is still your journey alone so I'm only giving a small advise.*bow*

Edited by Wytfang
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2 hours ago, Wytfang said:

@Jeff

 

Wow awesome, I really like Christian mysticism especially the old seclusion methods very amazing work.

 

Although it's hard to find now I'm afraid, our master jesus did leave behind 5 main schools and only one truly kept going through the essenes and their practises. That tap has almost dried up.

 

 

Thanks. How did you come to believe that there were 5 schools? Also, why do you think there was one through the Essenes? 

 

And I would have to disagree about the (light of Jesus) tap being anywhere near almost dried up. :) 

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Thanks for your patience Jeff. 

 

Our master Jesus doesn't have a tap his divine knowledge is endless and never runs out, he carries oceans and oceans of knowledge and each drop has its unique flavour and color.

 

The drying up of source running through into our world/physical has begun and has been happening very some time now, a grandmaster passes away and gives his school to his new successor but his successor doesn't carry the inner knowledge and depth that his master reached through spirit power, so in turn many many lineages are getting diluted because the successors aren't focusing in on the inner and instead are fighting each other and other branches of their own schools, who should be the head etc.

 

On earth the five mystical schools of jesus were the major ones, they had transforming power the essenes were the only ones who kept his knowledge what they received from jesus and his order alive, but they didn't reveal too much of the inner works, but their lifestyle was a major part of cultivation life.

 

There are still many masters who get taught directly by jesus and they don't belong to any "school" these are the people of transforming they are hard to find and may seem very ordinary on the outside and won't be found in churches, they may go to any place of worship for balancing the light/nur/aura by the orders of Christ.

 

Spiritual missionary they work directly with light and create balance on this earth.

 

Summary:

 

five schools were in jesus time most couldn't find successors or made a blend of two or more paths together which is still fine, essenes kept most of outward cultivation life and also in their writings there's some hints regarding inner stuff and till today the power of Christ can never diminish he's one of the five great ones in the divine presence.

 

Edited by Wytfang
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Hi Wytfang, 

 

Are you entirely sure of being inside a real sufi order? 

Are there real physical human beings or is it everything in the "spirit" world? 

I have the strong impression that whatever you're doing has nothing to do with real sufism. 

 

But you probably have some inner resonance with sufism and to meet a real living tradition would be very beneficial to you. 

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@Cheshire Cat

 

Thanks for your concern brother.

 

Yes I'm with a real sufi order. There are 41 tariqats/orders I have more than one order running through me because of my "physical" master but we do a lot of work on the other side also.

 

In Hindu texts they talk a lot about spirit bodies I'm sure you've heard of them, astral, mental, emotional etc etc they have their own names in sanskrit so you can look that up. Every part of ourself works on many different layers and all these layers belong to us to make a whole being.

 

Hope that helped your curiosity and I would also like to say I'm not interested in our differences we all know there are many paths and traditions to follow etc, best thing to do would be to take the good and leave the bad and get back onto the spirit tracks don't bother with debating don't stay in one place keep going keep going and keep going.

 

Peace be over you and within you my brother.

Edited by Wytfang
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59 minutes ago, Wytfang said:

In Hindu texts they talk a lot about spirit bodies I'm sure you've heard of them, astral, mental, emotional etc etc they have their own names in sanskrit so you can look that up. Every part of ourself works on many different layers and all these layers belong to us to make a whole being.

[...]

 

That's not Hindu Texts: It's theosophy.

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13 hours ago, Wytfang said:

Everyone has their own unique adventure

yes.  I have seen Christian mystics, zen folks, hunter gather shamans , all kinds of people, even those who have the pathless path find there way up the  mountain.  For me, I left zen, and just went out in our forest and sat for years, every day summer, fall winter, spring. hot days, cold days - 20.  And even now, this pathless path is changing, which is also wonderful.  Lastly if someone has a belief in a specific system, and that is working, also great.  nothing to argue about,

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37 minutes ago, Zen Pig said:

yes.  I have seen Christian mystics, zen folks, hunter gather shamans , all kinds of people, even those who have the pathless path find there way up the  mountain.  For me, I left zen, and just went out in our forest and sat for years, every day summer, fall winter, spring. hot days, cold days - 20.  And even now, this pathless path is changing, which is also wonderful.  Lastly if someone has a belief in a specific system, and that is working, also great.  nothing to argue about,

 

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1 hour ago, Jonesboy said:

 

He is referring to the 5 Sheaths or Koshas of Yoga.

 

http://www.swamij.com/koshas.htm

 

 

Is that advaita vedanta?  How it fits with the idea of different spiritual bodies that can be used separately as vehicles for consciousness (like Astral bodies, etc..) ? 

 

In any case, Wytfang is talking about his own eclectic spiritual adventures and I'm pretty sure that he's not a sufi by any standards.

 

In order to be a sufi, one must be Muslim. You can't be a sufi if you don't accept that Allah is the only God and Mohammed is his prophet. Period. 

 

This non-sense talking about an eclectic tradition with spiritual gatherings with Buddhas, Jesus and golden unicorns is surely not sufism. 

 

 

 

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@Cheshire Cat

 

Don't waste your cultivation or your breath on someone like me, trust me if something gives you doubt just smile and move away keep moving.

 

I'm sorry I've upset you in any way brother.

 

My master would always say don't bother arguing or debating it kills the light within, this light is delicate and takes a long time to gather, he would always say, people who maybe difficult or argue alot say to them "to me my way and to you, yours" we can't force each other let's just share a spiritual drink my friend and be on our way. Be greater than me, don't let me be an obstacle on your way and if I am an obstacle, let me move out of the way for you 🙏

 

(Hugs Cheshire cat) hahahaha

Edited by Wytfang
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I appreciate your open sharing and loving words Wytfang.

It is clear that your path is working for you.

Warm regards and welcome to the forum.

_/\_

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@steve

 

Thanks Steve for your resonating love.

 

May the guardians of heavens raise your maqaam/level to the highest point.

 

Usually these topics stay in very small circles hidden away from the outside world, this doesn't make me above others but someone who has been given some spiritual food to share out, it's much needed in our times.

 

I'm glad you've digested what's been shared.🙏

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One human, and many pieces of the soul remain scattered.

 

Countless number of paths from Africa, Asia, Oceania, America's, North, South the entire world and beyond shares so many different paths of unlocking.

 

We all have an energetic/qi/chi/nur/pranic etc etc body/'s but each human has been given his/her own unique seal mark/purpose.

 

Choose a way that fits you well and it will lead you up into unknown world's and reclaim your living glory. Huwa Hu.

 

The true path begins on the terrain of this heavy journey, right now we sit in a tavern all gathered merry making and some arguing, who's willing to go outside into the chilling winds up the mountain pass?.

 

You see a familiar face coming back from this misty mountain pass telling you "don't tell me your atempting to climb that in this weather are you"

 

You: yes why?

Friend: no way it's too risky, I didn't even get passed the first gate.

 

Keep moving don't let others stop your journey, because this is your adventure and this mountain reflects this life, the dark times, good times, times when we feel so low we think we can't stand for another day...

 

Don't let anyone or even your self make you believe you can't do it. That inner light within you, within us all, nothing from any plane of existence can take it or attack it.🌟

 

Thanks for listening sufis have a way of giving something through story telling which we call sohbet🙏

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On 18/12/2018 at 12:37 PM, Still_Waters said:

I'm looking forward to participation in this thread. Years ago, I spent time with Pir Vilayat Khan, the son of the Sufi Mystic Hazrat Inayat Khan. I've also read many of Hazrat Inayat Khan's books as the Sufi path is very appealing.

 

In addition, I hang out with a Sufi Shaik here at the local mosque in Brooklyn but sometimes just get together 1-on-1 for lunch so we get probe the depths together. It's interesting when one can get past the outer formalities and really connect heart-to-heart with the special ones since such discussions are rarely heard by those outside the inner circle. Those discussions are more about practice and direct experiences than theory.

 

Wow thanks my spirit brother, I've read some texts by hazrat inayat khan, my master also met pir vilayat khan they had a very beautiful meeting and share some spiritual food 😊

 

I'm happy to hear your journey also please sit and share.🙏

 

Mashallah you are lucky you can talk to a sufi sheikh and have a heart to heart it's very useful.

 

As you said yes, this talk about alam Al arwah/spirit world's doesn't get opened and needs permission but I'm fortunate to have been given a small drop to open it up slightly.

 

Thanks.☺

 

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18 hours ago, Wytfang said:

 

@Nungali

 

Hello my brother very interesting experience, from my own experience it seems like this experience maybe mostly based around elf/fairy/jinn gatherings.

 

My advise as a brother for you would be to try to go beyond this and every night read salamun qawlan min rabbin raheem ("peace" a word from a merciful lord). This will help go past those gatherings and I have been given permission by my master to pass this onto you.

 

But this is still your journey alone so I'm only giving a small advise.*bow*

 

'Past the gatherings' ?     It is an old poem of many years ago, so that happened some time back ;

 

" I will survive and rise up
beyond the cone

and the stars  above "

 

But I have returned to the natural world and do enjoy the company of  'jinn' .   I embrace nature and do not reject it . 

 

The poem is about multiple perceptions  ; 'looking at things  7 ways'   ( obviously, decoded, it is a 'planetary model.).

 

But, if you didnt get that, no worries. And thanks for your concern about my 'Black magic' .    Maybe wear a 'ta'wiz' too  ? ? ?

 

I know such hermetic magical practices make the religious nervous  ... it happens with Buddhists too !   Some looked upon my phurba and quellers with near horror ... only tools for a Lama , according to them.  (But even their own Lama didnt seem to mind, I had a very interesting and friendly converse with him regarding eastern and western equivalences between 'magical tools' . .

 

- actually, if one looked into it with the same attitude, those lamas and many of the Buddhist methods would be called 'black magic' as well.   But I am used to that by now.  My Sufi initiation was done it what some (and probably your tradition) would call a 'renegade school' ... ''irregular' or even  'spurious ' ...  as the  Freemasons say .   :)    I am sure it is frowned upon by 'regular' Sufi schools.

 

The central 'character' in the rite is   Mansur-e Halaj 

 

Then again , Sufism itself is seen as a blasphemy by some hard line religionists  .... I mean, they killed enough of them . Especially when they tech things like ;

 

I saw my Lord with the eye of the heart
I asked, 'Who are You?'
He replied, 'You'.

 

... and they replied ;

 

 

 

image.png.24bcfcc4d3faf447c1d6d39038928e12.png

 

 

 

 

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7 hours ago, Cheshire Cat said:

 

That's not Hindu Texts: It's theosophy.

 

Actually, it does not originate in Theosophy  (although they borrowed the concept and morphed it to become 'theosophical'.

 

Its based on the 'hierarchy of beings' concept ..

 

Its a concept derived from Plato and Neoplatonism , it was adopted and transformed by some Islamic and European Christians.  It passed through Swedenborg  and got picked up by Victorian occultists, including Blavatsky . 

 

Its origin is probably  ancient Egyptian, firstly, then Zoroastrian and the mix that came out of the 'Alexandrian Synthesis',  It was adopted by Islam, mostly through the religious and political dynamics  happening in Haran.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_chain_of_being

 

... see also ;

 

https://swedenborg.com/kindsofangels/

 

http://www.theisticpsychology.org/books/w.vandusen/presence_spirits.htm

 

and some of my writings here in this forum, where it shows how much of this is similar to the ground rules of western magical evocation.

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@Nungali

 

Haha sorry I thought you was relaying your own experiences.

 

With regards to jinn I have them as my friends and know of their kingdoms so I think you may have a wrong image of me, also with regards to magick it's again fine with me and our school, but when we say "dark magick" that goes down the line of dark practises which are devasting for the souls light source.

 

This opens up a new topic regarding your pathwork, in spirituality we all use "magick" which we call ruhaaniyya but we don't use the word magick it's more like divine power, which is a type of "magick" but it belongs to light power and light arts. Such as calling on helper guardian angels or khudams these belong to holy realms, to do works of healing and blessing  or bringing more light energy to a certain place etc.

 

The dark arts which employ demons/devils and jinn is very different your changing your very soul nature into more of darkened nature. Also the jinn contracts and bindings can be detrimental to jinn kingdoms, so innocent jinns passing by get caught by sorcerers and used in very bad ways, meanwhile the jinn families are worrying about their lost child etc.

 

We have a master in our order who has saved many jinn because dark magicians have forcefully captured them and used them for their own works, and so this master releases their bindings and sends them back to their families.

 

When a person on the light path asks for assistance from a being it's as a friend.

 

I would advise you to stay away from black magick at all costs it will destroy you and you will lose control to darkness.

 

Or my friends will come knocking on your door from spirit world's haha. Stay away from dark paths.

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5 hours ago, Cheshire Cat said:

 

Is that advaita vedanta?  How it fits with the idea of different spiritual bodies that can be used separately as vehicles for consciousness (like Astral bodies, etc..) ? 

 

In any case, Wytfang is talking about his own eclectic spiritual adventures and I'm pretty sure that he's not a sufi by any standards.

 

In order to be a sufi, one must be Muslim. You can't be a sufi if you don't accept that Allah is the only God and Mohammed is his prophet. Period. 

 

'Renegade' Sufis can   :)  

 

... anywayz , in the past, were there Christian and Jewish  Sufis ?   Some (who say they are Sufis) say there where.

 

My school was very anarchistic Sufism.  But other real Sufis here on DBs , in the past, became somewhat enraged about what I have written here .  They even hunted me down 'on the astral' to carve me up with their 'astral Samurai sword' .

 

Ho hum  ......   me  still here   :)  

 

 

 

 

 

5 hours ago, Cheshire Cat said:

 

This non-sense talking about an eclectic tradition with spiritual gatherings with Buddhas, Jesus and golden unicorns is surely not sufism. 

 

 

 

Dang !   I missed that bit about Golden Unicorns  :( 

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Please ask, my spirit brothers if you have any questions regarding sufi ways I'll try my best to answer you, if I have the answer that is haha🙏

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12 minutes ago, Wytfang said:

@Nungali

 

Haha sorry I thought you was relaying your own experiences.

 

Well,  a good poem should be based on one's own experience . But it may be an 'inner experience' that is hard to express, so it is clothed in poetic imagery . Some might say  it is not a 'real' experience though .

 

 

12 minutes ago, Wytfang said:

 

With regards to jinn I have them as my friends and know of their kingdoms so I think you may have a wrong image of me, also with regards to magick it's again fine with me and our school, but when we say "dark magick" that goes down the line of dark practises which are devasting for the souls light source. .

 

Thats good to know ..... those that have a long standing, experience and good practice , eventually come to understand these beings need not be a threat. if one is a 'master' ( magician or Sufi, etc ). Eg,  some Australian Aboriginal people, at a certain location that I stayed with, where terrified about the 'Jinn' in that area ; the one legged man that hopped after you at night , the screaming demon woman with no eyes, etc ) yet my friend, who is an advanced shaman / elder / guradian  / ' 'kadaicha'  talks of them fondly as his supports, teachers and guardians of the land .

 

It is when people try to use these forces for their own evil and selfish based needs that they, and the forces can become 'black' or evil'

 

If I may share a writing  with you from our tradition (I am sure you understand this , I am just presenting it to show it written in a different way .

 

 

Be thou therefore prompt and active as the Sylphs, but avoid frivolity and caprice; be energetic and strong like the Salamanders, but avoid irritability and ferocity; be flexible and attentive to images like the Undines, but avoid idleness and changeability; be laborious and patient like the Gnomes, but avoid grossness and avarice.

 

So shalt thou gradually develop the powers of thy soul, and fit thyself to command the Spirits of the elements. For wert thou to summon the Gnomes to pander thine avarice, thou wouldst no longer command them, but they would command thee. Wouldst thou abuse the pure beings of the woods and mountains to fill thy coffers and satisfy thy hunger of Gold? Wouldst thou debase the Spirits of Living Fire to serve thy wrath and hatred? Wouldst thou violate the purity of the Souls of the Waters to pander thy lust of debauchery? Wouldst thou force the Spirits of the Evening Breeze to minister thy folly and caprice? Know that with such desires thou canst but attract the Weak, not the Strong, and in that case the Weak will have power over thee.

 

   
12 minutes ago, Wytfang said:

 

This opens up a new topic regarding your pathwork, in spirituality we all use "magick" which we call ruhaaniyya but we don't use the word magick it's more like divine power, which is a type of "magick" but it belongs to light power and light arts. Such as calling on helper guardian angels or khudams these belong to holy realms, to do works of healing and blessing  or bringing more light energy to a certain place etc.

 

The dark arts which employ demons/devils and jinn is very different your changing your very soul nature into more of darkened nature. Also the jinn contracts and bindings can be detrimental to jinn kingdoms, so innocent jinns passing by get caught by sorcerers and used in very bad ways, meanwhile the jinn families are worrying about their lost child etc.

 

Very good point !   In 'advanced magical evocation'   the  'jinn'   are also liberated and lifted up along with the magician, as if they are seen are part of his psyche, its only sensible. If they are seen as separate forces they too can be helped, as ... why not ?

 

When we want to be befriend a dog, or utilise its skills , is it best to beat and threaten it , or form a good relationship which gives both joy and happiness and fulfilment .  I think we both know the answer, but some apparently do not. 

 

One very renown magical teacher of last century said " You can tell a man's character by the way he will treat a dog " .

 

 

 

12 minutes ago, Wytfang said:

 

We have a master in our order who has saved many jinn because dark magicians have forcefully captured them and used them for their own works, and so this master releases their bindings and sends them back to their families.

 

Here they are very connected to terrain and locations in environment , as are the people. But so much of that has been disrupted. But we still have their sacred places , in some cases.

 

image.png.8d9d8defdc58ccbd039d54c24d88d3c8.png

 

 

 

12 minutes ago, Wytfang said:

 

When a person on the light path asks for assistance from a being it's as a friend.

 

Indeed.  Forcing is  NOT a good way to relate to 'spirits', people, horse, dog, cow and children .  

 

Even if they are 'bad' or rebellious   (again, from my tradition) :

 

Therefore fear not the Spirits, but be firm and courteous with them; for thou hast no right to despise or revile them; and this too may lead thee astray. Command and banish them, curse them by the Great Names if need be; but neither mock or revile them, for so assuredly wilt thou be led to error.

 

 

 

 

12 minutes ago, Wytfang said:

 

I would advise you to stay away from black magick at all costs it will destroy you and you will lose control to darkness.

 

Good advice, I learnt that  near 50 years ago. Although I was never attracted to that path. However that does not stop some people declaring what I do is black magic, and that I am a black magician.

 

But there are many ignorant and uneducated people around ,  they also might think a Sufi is a terrorist, just because of their  religion.

 

In certain places and times, one must step gently

 

image.png.bdc0e16f65838f6564b31a5c4d700597.png

 

12 minutes ago, Wytfang said:

 

Or my friends will come knocking on your door from spirit world's haha.

 

 

Okay .  That will be interesting for them . Depending on what country / culture they are from ?     The guardians will not mind, if their intentions are good.      ;)    

 

image.png.2bc83437b2b85a70a3597be83d484285.png

 

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30 minutes ago, Wytfang said:

Please ask, my spirit brothers if you have any questions regarding sufi ways I'll try my best to answer you, if I have the answer that is haha🙏

 

I would like to read your view on learning how to learn things .

 

Thatis, how to actually learn them, so one can take in the teaching, try it and live it in real life, moving forwards onwards and upwards.

 

Not just 'learning' something, forgetting it , repeating the same mistakes over and over again in some unconscious merry go round from 'hell' cycle  of making a mistake, not learning from that, making the same mistake again, not learning again ... over and over 

 

... arrrrgh ! 

 

 

 

image.png.756dfe380af49d918416a0c8d6b75641.png

Edited by Nungali
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