So Many Qigong Traditions : How To Approach ?

[AugustGreig]

14 hours ago, Spotless said:

 

Continue to focus on the LDT

 

The info on the head region is good to know and habituate to when there: you can notice in mind looping noise that the tendency is forward in the head or just outside - most people are generally in trance and this is where they are most of the time.

 

What is "Normal" for a beginner is that they practice once a week and feel good for a bit and think it's great.

In general students often do not feel the LDT or and DT for some time. Most do not feel the feet and spine - quite a few can feel the hands.

 

It is very safe to say that you are progressing energetically very well however take real care on Diet and in working on inner refinement.

In each practice and in your prayers and meditation - bring to mind what you wish to work on - simply bring it to mind and then let it go - do not focus on it. Such things as quick to anger or strong willfulness or hatred or entrenched positioning, if it is from a clear example use that - each time you bring it up prior to a practice the energetic pattern vivifies and the practice breaks it down. 

 

Regarding the diet - you are transforming - this changes relationships.  This can be an incredibly difficult aspect but it does not have to be. Part of what you will work toward is more humility - it is needed - sharp wits may not find your changes any more than targets.

It is truely a time you feel more in touch with everything and more alone than ever - work with your throat and allow your communication to be in everything you do and with everything you see and touch and feel.

 

You are approaching practice from the intent to Awaken in a spiritual life - this is a life path - you have the worlds before you in this and can become what ever is your calling - the spiritual life as Householder or however. Refinement in the path is to your diligence and patience. Without patience refinement will be compressed and premature - with patience time will come to cease.

 

How you progress in Qi Gong is very much up to where you started from - you are a very sensitive embodiment - much more so than most. If you proceed without pushing the general unfolding is:

 

Feeling in the LDT and then a localized general awareness of it - if you are breathing into it and being in it and practicing regularly not as a personal power practice but one of general refinement - the taiji pole will begin to be felt. This will grow to be a very main feature of awareness. The leg and side channels will become noticed and at some point become a cohesive part of the general sensing of the channels during and outside of practice. 

 

Somewhere in these levels you may become bouyant and have a floating sensation while firmly grounded - it may never leave you from this point on.

 

At some point the channels will becoome very large and tubular and you may feel like "the Michelin Man" - these will then fuse into one.

The MCO will rise to become an incredible rotating column and then it to will subside and blend into the energetic systems. You may feel the great upper and lower areas beyond the head and below the waist appear - before this the head may have many happenings and this may be for many years.

 

As the head fully lights a great column from the base of the spine will take place and join the head - this will not be a great blasting of Kundalini - it will be the simple opening and pouring of it up the great back / inner back column. This will also pour into the heart and it ,will fill it like warm water the entire width of the chest. 

 

As all of this happens - you will generally find that tic's will develop during practice - the energy is so intense and is working through the bodies transformations. Tics meaning twitches. You may experience watery eyes or an endlessly runny nose.

 

You will find sickness comes and goes almost unnoticed and often it will stop completely during practice and then resume afterward.

 

Your scheduling needs to be attended to if you will be out and about or working - take care to sip in the incredible energies and be certain to have this with your body/being. The intention should not be to override anything in willfulness in order to expand and refine and grow - you will need sleep and sometimes you will need to change a practice schedule to meet with your needs. 

 

However - a regular practice schedule is very helpful.

 

I hope this has been of some help - all the best

 

 

 

This is probably the most helpful and encouraging thing I've read. I'm already having tics during meditation, it's when the ldt seems to send energy up into the head, I'll twitch, and yesterday I was twitching at the solar plexus because I was try to force it to stay in the ldt instead of letting it rise naturally.

 

And I'm in recovery, so my life is 100% devoted to Spirituality. My mantra is "patience compassion simplicity honesty open minded willingness humility gratitude". I often say a miracle is just gratitude, humility and awareness.

 

You must be a very good teacher. I found a class in my local city. I try to practice these principles constantly, all day. I try to control to much, but I'm getting better. The prayer thing was very helpful. My diet is crap, put I'm poor and crave sugar and caffeine as I just got off of heroin 60 days ago. So I'm working on it. But I understand the importance of what you put in your body, food and otherwise. Since I learned about Taoism as a teenager, I described it to people as a design for eating, sleeping, meditating, sex and exercise/self defense.

 

Anyway, just wanted you to know I wasn't trying to harness power to one hit kill or anything. My intention is to make all living things more joyous and free. Ten thousand thank yous. I will never forget you, and I mean that. The little compliments and recognitions in there made it feel very personal and intimate. Like I said, you must be a very good teacher, an you probably get paid for this. Thank you again.

[Spotless]

The sugar and caffeine are alternate highs - and you need to wean yourself off of these as well but for reasons that may not seem so obvious:

precisly the practice you are doing can lead quickly to some very intense experiences if you are on a high sugar diet. These can be very debilitating experiences or wonderful experiences but they should not be pushed by sugar and stimulants.

Aditionally - do not force the movement or flow of your energies- these practices "know" what they are doing and the natural rising of energy from a dantien works throughout the systems and bodies.

Work on letting go of willfulness and the idea that you cannot change your diet. Try also not to move over to fast foods.

You can go to Trader Joe's and eat a decent meal for around $3.50 (tofu or shrimp spring roll) and a good burrito place usually makes a $6 burrito that can make two meals.

 

(in reference to a comment: all of my classes are free of charge)

 

Edited September 19, 2018 by Spotless

[Cheshire Cat]

On 8/8/2018 at 1:08 PM, rideforever said:

[...]

So how to approach this ?

[...]

 

The industry favors quantity over quality. How do I know that? It's extremely rare that a qigong/neigong teacher criticizes another teacher: there's enough business for everyone and a critic-train could have an high chance of damaging the industry for good.

 

 

 

[Mudfoot]

9 hours ago, Cheshire Cat said:

 

The industry favors quantity over quality. 

Quality is not needed. 

Ken Cohen, Roger Jahnke, Anthony Korahais and others write about it. 

Even "It hardly looks like qigong" can have a major impact on uncurable health problems.

[Cheshire Cat]

1 hour ago, Mudfoot said:

Quality is not needed. 

Ken Cohen, Roger Jahnke, Anthony Korahais and others write about it. 

Even "It hardly looks like qigong" can have a major impact on uncurable health problems.

 

To say that any practice of dubious origins which proclaims itself "Qigong" can have a major impact on uncurable health problems ... is a bold statement. Don't you think?

[Sebastian]

I think I understand where he's coming from... Qigong at its essence is not about forms, lineage, or how good you look in the park. The real payload of Qigong is "Qi flow". People have many energetic blockages inside them and by virtue of the word "energetic blockage", the main path to recovery is to generate a Qi flow gain. The Qi flow you generate will progressively soften the blockage until it loosens up and disappears.

 

He's right in saying you can generate good Qi flow by butchering some forms. And it's also true you can perform a Qigong routine perfectly well, and for a long time and have no energetic sense whatsoever, little Qi flow. In that case you're doing it as gentle physical exercise, as many people do in the park in Asia.   

 

[Mudfoot]

4 hours ago, Cheshire Cat said:

 

To say that any practice of dubious origins which proclaims itself "Qigong" can have a major impact on uncurable health problems ... is a bold statement. Don't you think?

Or, it is a statement made by experienced teachers, commenting the fact that there is a lot about how we function that we do not know so much about. 

As such, commenting single subject cases, "bold" is irrelevant. It is just comments on how things might turn out. 

And as far as I can tell, none of these teachers abandoned their traditions after seing this. But they seemed to have expanded their views. 

Edited September 20, 2018 by Mudfoot
Added sentences

[Cheshire Cat]

3 hours ago, Sebastian said:

I think I understand where he's coming from... Qigong at its essence is not about forms, lineage, or how good you look in the park. The real payload of Qigong is "Qi flow". [...]

 

 

This might be the case, but the current situation which leads people into believing that any qigong will do as long as it triggers some sort of tingling sensations here and there... could as well confirm my idea that quality is so diluited in the industry that you can't expect anything more than "Qi flow" aka tactile sensations and subtle muscle movements.

Unless it's really foolish to expect something more.

 

2 hours ago, Mudfoot said:

Or, it is a statement made by experienced teachers, commenting the fact that there is a lot about how we function that we do not know so much about. 

As such, commenting single subject cases, "bold" is irrelevant. It is just comments on how things might turn out. 

And as far as I can tell, none of these teachers abandoned their traditions after seing this. But they seemed to have expanded their views. 

 

Teachers who work in the industry -unlike anonymous forum commentators- have businesses to run and I would not expect a fair exploration of the subject coming from them for obvious reasons. Also, I live in a country where you can't advertise anything as a treatment  that can have a major impact on uncurable health problems, unless you have solid scientific evidences... and cultural habits may influence my view on this matter.

 

That said, I can't understand what you're saying in your last post.  Why should a teacher abandon his tradition? After seing what?

Edited September 20, 2018 by Cheshire Cat

[Sebastian]

Agree with you Chesire Cat.... You seem to be referring to quality of Qi flow, of energy. I think Mud-foot was referring to quality of form. And yes tactile sensations would probably rank quite low on your scale of quality, and mine too. By Qi-flow, I meant a real flow of Qi, something you might feel like a cascade when lowering your arms, holistically in your body. Something that will make your body sway and move if you relax your form and mind for just a moment, like a current of energy inside. That's the kind of Qigong that can make these claims, at least in my opinion... But there must be other good ways too, healing is a vast subject.

[idquest]

8 hours ago, Cheshire Cat said:

 

To say that any practice of dubious origins which proclaims itself "Qigong" can have a major impact on uncurable health problems ... is a bold statement. Don't you think?

 

I have witnessed this personally, when people with health problems would start doing dubious (really dubious) forms and would get better. The reason is very simple: before starting those dubious forms the problematic people hadn't done any physical movements at all developing numerous health problems from sore muscles to high blood sugar and diabetes. With this ANY physical movement would remove at least some of their problems which in fact happened and, understandably, was attributed to the miracle of qigong.

[Mudfoot]

2 hours ago, Cheshire Cat said:

 

That said, I can't understand what you're saying in your last post.  Why should a teacher abandon his tradition? After seing what?

Those teachers sincerely believe that they teach with quality, and even if a student get interesting results by messing up quality, the teacher continues to teach his version of quality. It is still interesting that you get results while not adhering to quality 

 

And you also read to much in what I wrote, a bias on your part. I never wrote they used it as an advertizing, again you have to try to see it from another context. 

Quality is not the only factor in this game. Hope, belief, and changing behaviour can be very powerful, and there are many aspects of qigong. State of mind, sensations of flow, all this are important factors in a treatment. 

 

I prefer randomised controlled studies, repeated and with enough power, if I am talking about medical results. But that was not my line of reasoning, my line of reasoning was against your "quality vs quantity", which is not an absolute truth. 

[OldDog]

On 8/8/2018 at 8:21 AM, Fa Xin said:

 

I do Qigong because it gets me moving ... it gets me twisting and turning, massaging my organs and helping with digestion and stretching the body. It gets me breathing deeply, helping the lungs to clear stuff. I also feel centered and relaxed when I finish. It’s a nice start to my day. 

 

 

Fa Xin's comment seems most practical.

 

Think you have to consider what you hope to get out of it. Being healthy is an admirable goal. I can attest to the benefit of movement and massaging of organs and breathing. This goes along with the traditional chinese medical model. Qi plays a significant role in that model. Qigong of any kind can contribute greatly to ones wellbeing. But the point being in gong ... effort over time. There is no magic in particular postures or movments, beyond that a set is complete and balanced and applied consistently over time. 

 

Awareness of qi is important but not something that one has to strive mightily for, for health purposes. It is said in taiji ... which can be considered a qigong ... that the qi leads movement and the mind leads the qi. That is, the qi goes where the mind is. Martial implications aside, there is good practical advice in that notion.

 

There is value in developing awareness of the body. Anything you can do to enable smooth qi flow throughout the body can enhance health. Relaxing, loosening the joints, movement, mental awareness of the flow of qi (or not) can help. Part of developing mental awareness has to do with quieting the mind so that subtle feelings of qi flow can be noticed. That is where meditative aspects of qigong come into play. For example, zhan zhuang practices are particulary helpful in this respect. 

 

Just my observations based on my own experience.

 

 

[freeform]

My advice is not to focus on the specific style of lineage or tradition, but on the quality of the teacher. 

 

A real teacher will be able to demonstrate their ability. They shouldn’t start making excuses (“oh if I demonstrate my Qi projection it could kill you” type crap). This doesn’t mean you go round ‘testing’ teachers. It takes a bit of time, humility and discernment.

 

If this is really something you’d like to do then it makes sense to work hard finding a good teacher.

 

Is their temperament matching the classic virtues (takes a while to see this) Are they able to demonstrate things practically and in a way that is undeniable (as in if the project Qi do you fall over writhing on the floor uncontrollably rather than ‘ooo I kind feel something between my hands’). What about their students? Are they able to demonstrate some of the key skills and qualities?

 

if you’re asking whether going deep into the internal arts is better than just being yourself and living a happy life? Then no - the internal arts are only really for the (slightly flawed and weird) individuals that are really drawn to them. It’s a difficult path that’s not for everyone and you can certainly live a happy fulfilled life without any of it!