Phoenix3 Posted July 16, 2018 I’ve read a few books which mention this, and ‘turning the light around’ seems to be a fancy way of saying to meditate on emptiness with the eyes closed. Am I correct? Also, once one’s eyes are opened, does the ‘turning the light around’ suddenly cease? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jeff Posted July 16, 2018 4 minutes ago, Phoenix3 said: I’ve read a few books which mention this, and ‘turning the light around’ seems to be a fancy way of saying to meditate on emptiness with the eyes closed. Am I correct? Also, once one’s eyes are opened, does the ‘turning the light around’ suddenly cease? No, turning the light around is more about one becoming "one with the light". It is sort of like a quantum jump from "seeing" (and light being reflective on other/dualistic things) to more "being" one with all. Open or closed eyes does not make any difference. Also, at that point mediation would be the same as normal daily living because one has broken down the perceptions in mind where you think that they are somehow different states. 4 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Phoenix3 Posted July 16, 2018 34 minutes ago, Jeff said: Also, at that point mediation would be the same as normal daily living because one has broken down the perceptions in mind where you think that they are somehow different states. But I’m under the impression that ‘turning the light around’ is something which could be started or stopped at anytime, not a way of being. As with anything, too much of one thing (like ‘turning the light around’) is probably not a great idea 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Aetherous Posted July 16, 2018 I think it's referring to part of a method that's taught by a teacher in the gold flower tradition, and it requires the teaching on how to practice it correctly in order to understand what the words mean. 3 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Phoenix3 Posted July 16, 2018 3 minutes ago, Aetherous said: and it requires the teaching on how to practice it correctly in order to understand what the words mean. Good thing I asked this on this forum, where there are many knowledgable people who may guide one in the right direction. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
joeblast Posted July 16, 2018 (edited) imagine a movie of the sun, with its rays shining outward imagine that movie played backwards, with the rays returning to the sun now place that movie at the niwan, and run it on loop inhale, light returns exhale, light returns do not flex the niwan, keep this light and shiny Edited July 16, 2018 by joeblast 6 4 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Phoenix3 Posted July 16, 2018 (edited) . Edited July 16, 2018 by Phoenix3 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
joeblast Posted July 16, 2018 nope, just return, return, return 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Aetherous Posted July 16, 2018 Taoist Texts, what do you think about this question? I know you've spoke in the past about books containing all that the practitioner needs...have you seen this method fully described in your readings? 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Phoenix3 Posted July 16, 2018 (edited) 14 minutes ago, Aetherous said: I know you've spoke in the past about books containing all that the practitioner needs I used to agree with this, but the books with english translations from the ancient writers are rarely available, unless one purchases them from the one or two Daoist scholars for 50 dollars a book There are a few good modern books (like Taoist Yoga), but why is it that practitioners of these systems/lineages always seem to appear old and/or fat? This is what the secret of the golden flower has to say about this: http://thesecretofthegoldenflower.com/ch3.html Edited July 16, 2018 by Phoenix3 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dwai Posted July 16, 2018 My 2 cents worth on this, is that, Awareness is Light, in that it is that which makes things known. To turn the light back is to turn the mind back to towards awareness. What Jeff said is a superset of that imho. The mind turns back to its source and simply merges back (or loses it's separate identity). 4 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Aetherous Posted July 16, 2018 (edited) 1 hour ago, Phoenix3 said: This is what the secret of the golden flower has to say about this: http://thesecretofthegoldenflower.com/ch3.html Thanks. I think there are a lot of little hints hidden in there that point us away from the incorrect practice and toward the right practice. Quote There are a few good modern books (like Taoist Yoga), but why is it that practitioners of these systems/lineages always seem to appear old and/or fat? They don't exercise enough, and don't have such a tightly regulated diet. Plus, they have good constitutions (aren't the emaciated type). I haven't found a spiritual method that waves a magic wand and fully turns everything into perfection. Often times, spiritual work takes a priority for people, so exercise and diet and basically just a healthy lifestyle takes a back seat...that's why, imo. Edited July 16, 2018 by Aetherous Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
steve Posted July 16, 2018 The light is awareness and attention which is nearly always turned outward towards the "outside" world. Turning that light around means to focus our awareness and attention inward. 9 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Taoist Texts Posted July 17, 2018 7 hours ago, Aetherous said: Taoist Texts, what do you think about this question? ... books containing all that the practitioner needs...have you seen this method fully described in your readings? hey, Yes this is fascinating. The method is fully described in the GF (at the above link), however there is a small part of it which curiously evades a reader's grasp. What steve and dwai say here is essentially correct, but that part is still missing. And without that part, practice inevitably turns into either a distracted sitting or dead sitting. As they say "err by an inch in the beginning-miss by a mile in the end". 3 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rideforever Posted July 17, 2018 As you look outwards to the world from the front of the head, the energy of the source is flowing through you and into the world of objects. Where is the source ? It is at the back of the head. If you flow back, surrender backwards, you can awaken and stabilise the impersonal consciousness, this feels like an expansion of presence that is like a vast open sky. Hence the halo is painted on religious paintings behind the back of the head, in most traditions. Initially it feels like a large impersonal space (nobody), but later if one is sensitive there is once again the feeling of an identity that you can act from, and the phoenix rises. This new identity is partly personal. Meaning that you have become the awakened human being. Of course the ultimate boss is still the source, but he wants you to be a human being. It is also possible to make the "light flow backwards" and BE at the mid-eyebrow-point. Which awakens and stabilises your personal identity. And it can also be done at the heart and dantien etc..., principles are the same. The creatures on this planet are powered by the source that flows into them, into their centres. When the body dies it's all over. Unless that creature gets the sense to "turn the light around", takes an interest in the source, yearns for the truth or god, and performs this awakening, then they have an identity not dependent on the body. Turning the light around, is not the only thing required, one has to recognize the new identity formed by "reversing the flow", and abide in it. "Abide in I Am". And surrender to this new identity until nothing is outside of it. In practice the attempt to recognize your presence in the aforementioned location, is the thing that causes the light to turn around, it's not primarily an energy practice. If one has difficulty recognizing then one can benefit from the company of people who can. That's my understanding. 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
joeblast Posted July 17, 2018 Sometimes when literal instruction might not make sense, folks will try to pin a flowery language tail on that donkey. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rene Posted July 17, 2018 1 hour ago, joeblast said: Sometimes when literal instruction might not make sense, folks will try to pin a flowery language tail on that donkey. Not sure about flowers tails and donkeys but, to me, 'turning the light around' reflects the returning nature of tao... which also enables us to do exactly that. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
joeblast Posted July 17, 2018 hehe it just makes me wonder whose descriptions are theoretical, and which are borne from practice-experience Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rene Posted July 17, 2018 lol dunno. some might just parrot with what they read somewhere Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
joeblast Posted July 17, 2018 2 minutes ago, rene said: lol dunno. some might just parrot with what they read somewhere yeah that's my problem with the "I think it means..." what I wrote came from reading Cleary's translation, and putting my understanding to practice... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Bindi Posted July 17, 2018 (edited) I believe it is turning outward looking attention in, and I would say in towards what was until then mostly dark and unconscious in our mind. But I believe 'turning around the light' is the result of previous work at the heart level and is not a method to be practised as it happens naturally, just as the MCO opens naturally at a certain stage. Edited July 17, 2018 by Bindi Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rene Posted July 17, 2018 1 hour ago, joeblast said: yeah that's my problem with the "I think it means..." what I wrote came from reading Cleary's translation, and putting my understanding to practice... what I wrote came from my own sense of things, confirmed by Laozi. haven't come across any other writings that have such crazy ideas. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Aetherous Posted July 17, 2018 11 hours ago, Taoist Texts said: however there is a small part of it which curiously evades a reader's grasp. Pretty sure I know what you're hinting at, but it'd be cool if you spelled it out for everyone here. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Phoenix3 Posted July 17, 2018 51 minutes ago, Aetherous said: Pretty sure I know what you're hinting at, but it'd be cool if you spelled it out for everyone here. Agree. It could be anything. A hint would be appreciated because if I find out later what it is, then I’ll know i know it. You can’t look for something if you don’t know what it looks like, and you can’t find something if you don’t know what you’ve found is what you’re looking for. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rene Posted July 17, 2018 20 minutes ago, Phoenix3 said: ..... You can’t look for something if you don’t know what it looks like, and you can’t find something if you don’t know what you’ve found is what you’re looking for. Especially if something's not lost in the first place - and you've been repeatedly told it's somewhere else! Old tao joke. Never mind. Carry on. 1 3 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
