ALA

Why do so many teachers and gurus die at a young age and/or do not look great?

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Hi,

I have been researching kundalini ( more on it in a another post) and I noticed that many of the gurus, teachers died at a young age. Some examples:

Paramhansa Yogananda died of heart attack at age of 59.

Glenn Morris died of heart attack at age 52

Yogi Bhajan diet at age 75 ( I do not know of what)

What the heck is going on? My parents do not practice anything and they are in their eighties.

Additionally, master Chunyi Lin’s wife died of breast cancer at a young age. Why he could not save her with all his “powers”?

I have not researched everyone but from what I remember not that many make it even to their eighties.

Did anyone ever ponder that? Aren’t these people supposed to be strong, enlightened, healthy? Some charge money to heal others yet they cannot heal family members?

Additionally, many teachers and gurus are also not that “hot” looking :) either. They are overweight, out of shape, looking older than their age or their age (if they are lucky). I am not impressed.

On the other hand I think that Dr Yang Jwing Ming and Mantiak Chia (although controversial for some) look great for their age. They must be doing something right! They do not even have that many gray hair and there seems to be a lot of vitality and vibrancy in them.

I am really curious what you guys think about my conundrum.

I think that it would have been so much more motivational to follow someone who has good results to show for. Would you follow advise of a sickly, overweight functional medicine doctor on how to be optimal?

I am very much looking forward to your thoughts.

 

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I has this question arise in my mind as a kid, but regarding different people in a different time.

 

I began to study this then, and have never stopped.

 

In fact, as masters they should all be "masters" - be able to change bad to good and back as they judge necessary.

 

Certainly able to care for themselves, their situations and their health, etc.

 

 

 

 

-VonKrankenhaus

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Theres 3 areas of cultivation, from my studies. The Dharma. That is contained by pre-heaven. That is contained by post-natal. They only cultivate post-natal. ... they only double dub in post-natal. They surely aren't that proffesional in jing,chi,shen. The noisiest thing these masters have achieved is relatively control of a small portion of mind (the various samadhis and jhanas) and some level of jing,chi,shen that brings them bliss, heat and ability to enter those states without much effort. 

 

Correct me. 

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One of the aims of life is for it to be well balanced and well rounded, and this means not putting too much importance on any one thing.

 

Say you discover a spiritual practice that helps you become more balanced and improves your life, then this is great.

 

But if you start to attibute too much importance to this practice, you then become unbalanced and the benefit is lost.

 

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I doubt any of those practices are real. People may delude themselves. There is no definition of what spiritual practice is. Any kind of mental wanking could be considered spiritual practice.

 

For me spiritual practice should be something real. Everything else is just fake arts. No wonder fake arts will not make you young or powerful, and you age and die like any other mortal beings.

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There are a lot of masters of the internal arts that do live long lives in good health.  It seems a lot of them are Pa Kua masters.  My teacher lived to 97, which is not bad for having lived in the land of poison for 60 years.  Up until the last few years he was vigorous, his hair was mostly black, and he had immense chi power.  Then he stopped doing his chi kung and his hair got white and thin and he became frail, however he was still alert and had his usually strong psychic powers, which included telepathy.  When he was 78 he had a free EEG test at a university open house and the doctors said that his brain functioned like that of a teenager's.

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2 hours ago, Starjumper said:

There are a lot of masters of the internal arts that do live long lives in good health.  It seems a lot of them are Pa Kua masters.  My teacher lived to 97, which is not bad for having lived in the land of poison for 60 years.  Up until the last few years he was vigorous, his hair was mostly black, and he had immense chi power.  Then he stopped doing his chi kung and his hair got white and thin and he became frail, however he was still alert and had his usually strong psychic powers, which included telepathy.  When he was 78 he had a free EEG test at a university open house and the doctors said that his brain functioned like that of a teenager's.

Devraha-Baba.png

 

Then there is this guy, who had black hair and perfect health without any food and medical doctors help at the age of 1000+.

Edited by Zetsu
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11 minutes ago, Zetsu said:

Devraha-Baba.png

 

Then there is this guy, who had black hair and perfect health without any food and medical doctors help at the age of 1000+.

 

Sri+Dev+Raha+Hans+Baba+-+5.jpg

1k? reallly? who is he?

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12 minutes ago, Arramu said:

1k? reallly? who is he?

 

I think he accidentally put one too many zeros in there.

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Why is age at death relevant? I understand why it appears relevant, especially if someone claims access to immortality, but why is it actually relevant? If a person no longer needs this physical body and is ready to move on to other realms of reality the why hang around here longer than necessary?

 

 

Edited by Lost in Translation
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Why, because some of them work their asses off trying to help dummies like many of us...

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I've often pondered the same things. I was watching a video by B.K. Frantzis today on tai chi wondering why anyone would pay lots of money to learn about "health" related martial arts practice by a sweaty, possibly obese over-weight guy with limited functional mobility? These are very clearly people who preach one thing and live another.

 

I think most of these enlightened individuals with their healing powers are greatly over exaggerating their abilities. 

 

Why do masters die young despite their mastery? Because human beings aren't simple one dimensional creatures. You cant out work a bad diet and expect to have abs. As much as people want to believe; qigong, meditation, yoga, etc. are not one size fits all keys to immortality that give you such strength you can ignore health science, nutrition, exercise and moderation. 

 

Diet is a factor. Environment "can/may" be a factor. Exercise is a factor. Many things play a role in our overall health. We are multi dimensional beings and putting all your eggs into one basket in any area of life seems like an extremely limited approach. 

 

I've always believed in training to improve my "quality" of life. Not necessarily the quantity of it. Maybe, had those masters never practiced their art to begin with, the inevitable death that stole them away would've happened sooner and debilitated them to a much greater and harsher level had they not attained what level of mastery they did have. It's hard to say. But they followed their own path. Lived their own truth. And that's all any of us can do. Find the things that give you peace, bliss and balance. Be disciplined and diligent. Hope for the best.

 

 

 

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There are so many possible reasons for why this may tend to happen.

 

Them being fraudulent is one idea.

Another is that they are speeding up their own evolution, so they really just burn out faster.

Along those lines, if they're on a spiritual path, they may have had to go through a lot in life, and life experience can take its toll.

It could be that some methods are taxing to the cardiovascular system (not in the same way as healthy exercise), so they get heart disease.

Maybe when it's cancer, it's due to heat buildup from practices not having an outlet.

Could be that they'd have been far worse off if they'd have done nothing, and they needed to learn and practice their arts in order to stay alive as long as they did.

 

There are many more things we could think of other than this.

I think it'd be fair to say that a practice is life shortening if the same phenomenon happens to everyone in the lineage - the teacher and all the students. If the teacher lives to 56, and some of the long term students end up living to 99, then we can't say the system is at fault.

About judging the veracity of teachings based on the practitioner's physical appearances...I want to believe there is some truth to the idea that beauty is the result of cultivation, and that it's inextricably linked with wellness - that people who do the right things in life end up getting good results, and that it shows. On the other hand, I think if we look at people who cultivate themselves in terms of wisdom, kindness, intelligence, courage, etc...they don't end up looking like models. If we look at the lives of gorgeous people, are they looking so good on the inside? I've known some beautiful women, for instance, who were horrible human beings (not that the inner and outer are always opposite of each other).

It's hard to say what the truth of the matter is.

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On 29/06/2018 at 2:55 PM, ALA said:

...

Additionally, many teachers and gurus are also not that “hot” looking :) either. They are overweight, out of shape, looking older than their age or their age (if they are lucky). I am not impressed.

...

 

 

.....    and they should be able to sing  as well  ;) 

 

from  4:00  ;

 

 

Edited by Nungali
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Master Jou Tsung Hwa is an example I think of often. 

 

He lived a stressful life up into the Age of 47... smoking, drinking and gambling ... when the doctors told him he had an enlarged heart, prolapsed stomach and other ailments. 

 

By sheer fate or luck, he found his way to Taijiquan and started practicing/cleaned up his life. 

 

He died in a car crash at 81, one of the most vibrant and strong people, and did a lot for the advancement of the art itself. 

 

Most likely lived much longer than if he had not started practicing...

Edited by Fa Xin
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On 01/07/2018 at 3:37 AM, IronMarshall said:

I've often pondered the same things. I was watching a video by B.K. Frantzis today on tai chi wondering why anyone would pay lots of money to learn about "health" related martial arts practice by a sweaty, possibly obese over-weight guy with limited functional mobility? These are very clearly people who preach one thing and live another.

 

I think most of these enlightened individuals with their healing powers are greatly over exaggerating their abilities. 

 

 

 

To be fair to Frantzis, he spent considerable time recovering after heavy spinal injuries after a car crash.

 

I've spent considerable time speaking to some of his more advanced students. Those conversations have been some of the most insightful I've had, and based on the mental and physical shit they managed to purge and heal together with my own experience, I do give credence to the guy.

 

In general, guessing the motivations and priorities of a single guru is not a good measure of skill nor wisdom in my opinion; producing students with definite attainment is.

 

 

M

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We tend to believe that we can outsmart the rest of humanity with a few tricks. 

 

We love the idea so much that even when it's evident that the plan is a failure, we keep going without even considering to change direction. 

 

That's how talented people devoted to harmful practices end up shortening their lifespan, IMHO. 

 

 

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13 hours ago, Mandrake said:

 

To be fair to Frantzis, he spent considerable time recovering after heavy spinal injuries after a car crash.

 

I've spent considerable time speaking to some of his more advanced students. Those conversations have been some of the most insightful I've had, and based on the mental and physical shit they managed to purge and heal together with my own experience, I do give credence to the guy.

 

In general, guessing the motivations and priorities of a single guru is not a good measure of skill nor wisdom in my opinion; producing students with definite attainment is.

 

 

M

 

I wasn't trying to insult Mr. Frantzis. I've never met him and I do not typically like to cast judgment on martial artists I've never shared personal experiences with. And, for the sake of being totally unbiased; I do not actually believe that one's "performance" of an art reflects whether or not they are deeply "knowledgeable" about the art. Some people can't do and are better suited as scholars and teachers. Others have no patience for the in-depth, but are incredibly skilled in the application of their art.

 

Like you said, sometimes people can be knocked on their butts with an injury (or illness). His body-type and mobility issues fit a perfect example for this argument though. Particularly in America where a significant portion of the population is obese and consume a very poor diet. I guess we love our comfort food more than our health.

 

Perhaps it's worth noting, in particular for Mr. Frantzis' case; that sometimes these masters suffer traumatic injury, and that it's difficult to overcome for anyone, medications and pain killers are often prescribed in heavy doses (particularly in America) which numb the senses and leave you lethargic, tired and lazy; which also means you end up sitting around more than you did before, eventually gaining weight , developing heart disease and dying younger than you should have. 

 

But for the record; I sincerely meant no disrespect to Mr. Frantzis or any of his followers. I find him to be an incredibly knowledgeable teacher, I enjoy his videos and publications and whatever demons he's fighting to overcome; I wish him the best. He was just the first guy that came to mind as I was watching some of his Tai Chi Course Lessons that morning. 

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image.png.8bd730f08f44c7fb664dc78bf516be2f.png

These guys were/are lineage holders or famous tai chi teachers.

Given that those who died early probably died of genetic disease and china was at this time a very rough country to live in... it doesn't sound bad to me.

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If a person is asleep yet lives to be 100 and a master is awake at 30 an lives in Now until what is counted as 50 years - it could be argued that the master lived 20 years and the former did not live.

 

It is a great illusion to think and assume that the path of a master was made of rainbows and unicorns.

 

When vanity ceases and many mundane cares of the world subside it is no surprise that everything is given to the teaching or the life and way - some never quite look at the great calm in the body as the winds subside - small amounts of food can still hold ones weight.

 

Looking from the outside armed with knowledge it is easy to seek perfection - but it was and is never about perfection - that has always been a given except to those that are lost in the mists.

 

If you seek an apple polisher in clean unstained clothes - you seek a mirage that you have formed - no one followed a recipe to become a master - what is cooked up comes in many flavors. If you let the quality of the Font lead your choice in what you deem to be of value - you will  be treading in shallow water.

 

20 years in NOW is far longer and much richer than 1000 years in sleep.

Edited by Spotless
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Many of the Masters you mentioned were jivanamuktas (like Swami Vivekananda, Adi Shankaracharya who lived only till the age of 32). The concept of 'human longevity' does not play a role in such cases. This human life itself is like a dream-existence. It has no significant attraction to them. They do their work as long as is needed and in the process their bodies might well disintegrate. They don't die...they are liberated while in the body from the concept of life and death (which is part of the bondage).

Edited by dwai
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Liberation from this existence does not derive from ignorance or lack of skill in it.

 

It derives from mastery of it.

 

Mastery of a set of exercises is not mastery of existence or of human existence.

 

That's just doing exercises.

 

Deciding "it doesn't matter" can be a sign of mastery, and also can be a sign of ignorance and defeat.

 

It is far more common that it is a sign of ignorance than it is of mastery.

 

 

 

 

-VonKrankenhaus

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I forgot the details but there is a Buddhist related story about an old, worn and simple looking woman who put some younger know-it-all monk to shame for not  recognizing her advanced state... 

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