Wood Dragon-Metal Horse

Dao De Jing and Zhang Botuan Translations

Recommended Posts

My teacher recommended I get the James Legge  and D.C. Lau translations of the Dao De Jing and one more from a native Chinese person. Does anyone have any good recommendations for a translation done by a native Chinese person? Also I would be interested in any recommendations you all have.

 

The second book is Zhang Botuan. He didn't recommend a author for this title. Does anyone have some good translations to recommend?

 

Thanks much for your time.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I like the Gia-Fu Feng translation of Dao De Jing myself. There should be others worthwhile but I know that one best.

 

For Zhang Botuan, I'm mostly familiar with the Thomas Cleary translation. I've seen another by Fabrizio Pregadio but cannot recall if I indeed read that. I got the Cleary one sooner because it was part of that big 4 volume set on classic texts.

 

Hope that helps.

Edited by CityHermit!
forgot to finish editing sentence before posting

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I can only recommend what I have found useful as translations from Chinese to English:

 

Wang Keping. The Classic of the Dao: A New Investigation. Beijing: Foreign Languages Press, 1998

The Tao Te Ching: A New Translation With Commentary. Translated and edited by Ellen M. Chen. New York: Paragon House, 1989

Tao Te Ching : Tao and Virtue Classic. Translation by Derek Lin

 

Others are okay but mostly for the English style and few have explanations or full commentaries. At least all those 3 authors have good command of both languages, Chinese and English.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Thanks much for the suggestions y'all. But now it looks like I have many more books on my list! Do you all have any opinions on the versions I spoke of? I will probably end up getting them, but my teacher said he doesn't read translations (he's a native of China). So I am interested in opinions of them.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

IMHO, I never understood Legge and Lau seems a good start. Maybe should I ask, what is the purpose of your study of the DDJ?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
10 hours ago, Wood Dragon-Metal Horse said:

So I am interested in opinions of them.

Both books are incomprehensible without a proper guidance, but, when read as poetry they can be a source of inspiration.

 

In practical terms, DDJ is marginally useful for inner alchemy due to its general idea of quietism. Zhang's Wuzhenpian, on the other hand, while being a seminal work on inner alchemy -  is not useful at all. Without a guidance its just a confusing heap of flowery verses. 

 

Since you lack guidance and yet are intent on reading it, the best place to start  is Pregadio's intro to it

http://www.goldenelixir.com/jindan/neidan_and_wzp_1.html

The text itself will remain incomprehensible, but at least the intro provides a clearer outlay of it.

 

Zhang's afterword:

 

 

  • Like 1
  • Thanks 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
11 hours ago, Taoist Texts said:

Both books are incomprehensible without a proper guidance, but, when read as poetry they can be a source of inspiration.

 

In practical terms, DDJ is marginally useful for inner alchemy due to its general idea of quietism. Zhang's Wuzhenpian, on the other hand, while being a seminal work on inner alchemy -  is not useful at all. Without a guidance its just a confusing heap of flowery verses. 

 

Since you lack guidance and yet are intent on reading it, the best place to start  is Pregadio's intro to it

http://www.goldenelixir.com/jindan/neidan_and_wzp_1.html

The text itself will remain incomprehensible, but at least the intro provides a clearer outlay of it.

 

Zhang's afterword:

 

 

Where does one fine "proper guidance" in these texts?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

One  gets guidance from a real teacher.

 

Here is a FAQ on teachers and teaching.

 

 

Edited by Taoist Texts
  • Like 1
  • Thanks 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 5/20/2018 at 10:41 AM, Taoist Texts said:

One  gets guidance from a real teacher.

 

Here is a FAQ on teachers and teaching.

 

 

Worth reading about misconceptions and very educational, thanks again. Any PDF available on this topic of misconceptions of qigong, neidan, alchemy 2.0?

Edited by Mig
  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 5/20/2018 at 12:41 PM, Taoist Texts said:

One  gets guidance from a real teacher.

 

Here is a FAQ on teachers and teaching.

 

 

Well it only outlined what teachers aren't, not how to find a good one. Seems to me there are no good teachers in Texas!

 

What would you suggest for reading that will help my cultivation? What do you consider to be good work that will help me to understand Dantian rotation and cultivation?

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 5/25/2018 at 10:19 PM, Mig said:

Any PDF available on this topic of misconceptions of qigong, neidan, alchemy 2.0?

 

51 minutes ago, Wood Dragon-Metal Horse said:

What do you consider to be good work that will help me to understand Dantian rotation and cultivation?

Hey guys. Thats easy, plenty of reading on the net

http://www.taiji-bg.com/articles/taijiquan/t38.htm

https://taichinotebook.wordpress.com/2016/09/02/in-tai-chi-you-have-to-go-down-to-go-up/

http://www.iari.ru/dtconnect.html

http://www.chinafrominside.com/ma/xyxy/daitech1.html

http://daixinyi.blogspot.co.uk/2008/09/dun-hou-shi-squatting-monkey.html?view=classic

 

 

55 minutes ago, Wood Dragon-Metal Horse said:

What would you suggest for reading that will help my cultivation?

This one is trickier. You see, cultivation is like a career, it is a means to an end. What are your goals?

 

 

58 minutes ago, Wood Dragon-Metal Horse said:

Well it only outlined what teachers aren't, not how to find a good one.

Yes, thats the next step. It depends on your end goal.

https://www.stevepavlina.com/blog/2005/08/end-goals-vs-means-goals/

  • Like 1
  • Thanks 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Though I am not particularly interested in alchemy, I recently read a book that goes a long way toward connecting alchemy to the more general study of daoism. 

 

The Seal of the Unity of the Three, by Fabrizio Pregadio is a most comprehensive explanation of alchemy language.  It goes a long way toward demystifying the cryptic language of alchemical text and sets alchemy into the context of broader Daoism. I have not read Pregadio's other works and so cannot speak to them. But, short of an actual hands on master, it is hard to imagine a better introduction to daoist alchemy.

  • Like 1
  • Thanks 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 5/18/2018 at 10:21 PM, CityHermit! said:

I like the Gia-Fu Feng translation of Dao De Jing myself. There should be others worthwhile but I know that one best.

 

For Zhang Botuan, I'm mostly familiar with the Thomas Cleary translation. I've seen another by Fabrizio Pregadio but cannot recall if I indeed read that. I got the Cleary one sooner because it was part of that big 4 volume set on classic texts.

 

Hope that helps.

Have you read other translations of the DDJ? I actually have the copy from Gia-Fu Feng and Jane English. It seems really artsy but well done. I'm just curious on the quality of the translation.

 

Also I have yarrow sticks from Jane English for I-ching. They are very nice.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, Wood Dragon-Metal Horse said:

Have you read other translations of the DDJ? I actually have the copy from Gia-Fu Feng and Jane English. It seems really artsy but well done. I'm just curious on the quality of the translation.

 

Also I have yarrow sticks from Jane English for I-ching. They are very nice.

Yes many, but that was the one I liked most out of the ones that I recall involved native Chinese. There have been some others I've seen where the resulting English sentences were a bit more awkward. I'm sure there's more out there I should still check out in any case. I'd be looking forward to one day reading and understanding it in one or more Chinese script, but that would surely take some time and effort.

  • Thanks 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 5/26/2018 at 2:16 PM, Taoist Texts said:

  Do you have any recomendations on good translations of "Understanding Reality"? My teacher only reads in Chinese, so he doesn't have any knowledge of translations. Though he will give me feedback and help with the one I pick.

 

Thanks much

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Cleary is sloppy and amateurish; Pregadio is exact and scholarly. That said,  you will not understand the subject matter from reading the either. 

  • Like 1
  • Thanks 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 27/05/2018 at 7:16 AM, Taoist Texts said:

 

 

Hi,

Thanks for linking to my blog www.daixinyi.blogspot.com if there are any questions regarding the content, feel free to ask away.

 

DZQ

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

想要看懂張伯端的書,一定要放棄丹田輪轉。

否則你肯定看不懂。

因為當你把意放在氣感上,你的意就不清淨了。

意土不清淨,後面都練不上去了。

 

If you want to understand Zhang Boduan's book, you must give up the rotation of the dantian.

Otherwise you will definitely not understand.

Because when you put your mind on the sense of qi, your mind is not pure.

The mind soil is not clean, and I can't practice it later.

 

想要看懂張伯端,直接問我就好了。

 

起碼我是一個大活人,可以回答你的問題

 

If you want to understand Zhang Boduan, just ask me directly.

At least I'm a big living person and can answer your questions

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites