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windwalker

Veterans day

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"We, the willing
Led by the unknowing
Are doing the impossible
For the ungrateful
We have done so much
For so long
With so little
We are now qualified
To do anything
With nothing"

 

No soldier wants war or to go to war. And yet we do and have.  It's what we do.

 

For the members here who are veterans.

Respect for your service. Even if we may disagree at times we share a common bond that many who have not served will not know.

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30 minutes ago, Aetherous said:

Respect to the Veterans.

Here here.. like the police they have a damn hard job and deserve our appreciation.  

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22 minutes ago, zerostao said:

 

 

They should not have been allowed to serve to begin with.

My bet would be there is more to the story...

 

"In order for a non-citizen to enlist in the military, he/she must first be a legal immigrant (with a green card), permanently residing in the United States." 

 

They must have falsified some documentation thinking they could gain legal status. 

 Those who enlisted them should be investigated. 

If in fact they were illegal  aliens, they are still subject to being deported and where.

 

Were's  the problem? 

Edited by windwalker

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Out of respect for those who've served

those looking to make some kind of political statement 

I ask that you do it on another thread.

 

not here

Edited by windwalker

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I was merely acknowledging veterans that served our country. I thought that was what this thread was for. I served with some that were not U.S. citizens, I respect them as I do ALL veterans.

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Well, I agree that we`ve got to follow the rules.  If it`s determined that the veterans aren`t legally in the country then we have to follow the law and deport them -- or else change the law.  That said, it`s hard to think of a more touching way for an "illegal alien" to express dedication to the US than to serve in the military.  

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1 hour ago, liminal_luke said:

Well, I agree that we`ve got to follow the rules.  If it`s determined that the veterans aren`t legally in the country then we have to follow the law and deport them -- or else change the law.  That said, it`s hard to think of a more touching way for an "illegal alien" to express dedication to the US than to serve in the military.  

 

no, in fact quite dangerous

 

"touching way"  going out and killing the enemy for a living, is a touching way...Ok,  not something I would say.

 

It means that the person can not be trusted and will  do what they want

to get what they want    It also means that the military can be infiltrated

as happens sometimes... .....the ones who enlisted him should be investigated to determine what happened to find out how and why it happened.

 

 

Quote

zerostao: I served with some that were not U.S. citizens, I respect them as I do ALL veterans.

 

You chose to use this thread as your doing now to make a statement. 

Being an illegal alien is not the same as not being a US citizen but legal resident..

 

Because you've noted that you served, respect your service but would question your judgment

if you dont understand the difference between illegal alien and non US citizen.  Nor did you check to see why

or how they got caught by ICE...you wanted to make a statement...got it...why not start your own thread.

 

Do you know what a citizen is, what makes a citizen?

 

You both do not seem to be able to respect a simple request

 

have at it, my last comment on this thread.

 

Edited by windwalker

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25 minutes ago, liminal_luke said:

Never been in the service, Windwalker.  I think you`ve got me confused with some other Bum.

fixed 

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Apparently sarge I don't know anything until you debrief me.
Please tell me what makes a citizen?
If these were combat veterans, it is a total disgrace they were deported.
Where was your combat duty served at sarge? I'd like to thank you for that service.

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41 minutes ago, zerostao said:

Apparently sarge I don't know anything until you debrief me.
Please tell me what makes a citizen?
If these were combat veterans, it is a total disgrace they were deported.
Where was your combat duty served at sarge? I'd like to thank you for that service.

 

Thanks I'm retied, also thanks for the pay check I get each month. 

Not much but helps to pay the bills.

 

If they were not legally  here in the US it means they lied and some how it was missed

that error has been corrected.   

 

Before you visit your local recruiter, be sure you meet the minimum qualifications for serving in the U.S. Armed Forces. Some qualifications are required by all five services:

You must be a U.S. citizen or resident alien.
You must be at least 17 years old (17-year old applicants require parental consent).
You must (with very few exceptions) have a high school diploma.
You must pass a physical medical exam.

 

 illegal aliens (even with DACA) are not currently eligible to enlist in the U.S. armed forces. 

 

Any person who‚ÄĒ

(1) procures his own enlistment or appointment in the armed forces by knowingly false representation or deliberate concealment as to his qualifications for that enlistment or appointment and receives pay or allowances thereunder; or

(2) procures his own separation from the armed forces by knowingly false representation or deliberate concealment as to his eligibility for that separation;


shall be punished as a court-martial may direct.

 

Maximum punishment.

(1) Fraudulent enlistment or appointment. Dishonorable discharge, forfeiture of all pay and allowances, and confinement for 2 years.

(2) Fraudulent separation. Dishonorable discharge, forfeiture of all pay and allowances, and confinement for 5 years.

 

 

They didnt press charges, they didn't go to jail, they got deported you dont mention what type of discharge they got.

 

Rather surprised by your response.....

at any rate, done with the thread  

 

carry on... 

Edited by windwalker

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I have no idea what type of discharge they got. Do you have a link that says these Veterans received a discharge other than Honorable? What I read about these Veterans is that they were promised citizenship as part of the deal for signing up. So, perhaps someone lied. My recruiter was less than truthful on a few things, like benefits. You are certain it was these deported veterans that lied, so it must be so. My memory is that there are types of waivers granted. For instance, at the height of the Afghanistan War waivers were granted to many that would have been disqualified  by age limitations (being too old), even some convicted felons were allowed to join, etc
This being the case, a simple reciting c& p of standard regulations has no way to reveal the facts. Just because someone may be considered by the UCMJ to be at risk of a court-martial is not an indication that the court-martial took place. If you have a link that these Veterans were court-martialed please share that. If you do not want to post it on this thread, I can understand that, you can message me with it if you prefer.

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Apparently they were brought to the US as a children.

 

Sgt. Ivan Ocon, who is standing at the front in this photograph, was born in Juarez but came to New Mexico as a child. He served in the U.S. Army from 1997 to 2004, and deployed with Operation Iraqi Freedom in 2003. He was deported in 2016, and now heads the Deported Veterans Support House in Juárez.  

 

It doesn't mention what his status was or how he enlisted or why he was deported. If he was a green card holder it comes with warnings that it can be revoked.  I would have to assume that he / they did in fact have or were green card holders and lost the status.

 

 

Ocon told us that the Memorial Day photograph shows them honoring fallen soldiers: 

Our intention was to pay honors to our fallen comrades, and give honor to all the fallen soldiers, brothers in arms. We‚Äôre still veterans, and we would celebrate that holiday in the United States, but because we are here we just celebrated in our own way, you know? The irony is, the American Flag is right over the bridge ‚ÄĒ but we can‚Äôt go there.¬†


Ocon said that being deported means that even honorably discharged veterans cannot access programs that they may desperately need, such as those that offer educational opportunities and health care. They still qualify, but have to appear at hearings and meetings in person ‚ÄĒ in the United States. ‚ÄúWhen you get deported they basically cut you off from everything,‚ÄĚ he told us. ‚ÄúWe‚Äôre still veterans at the end of the day, and served a country that wasn‚Äôt truly ours.‚ÄĚ

 

A little misleading,  not having a status there is no way, to give them any benefits by law that they may be entitled too, even  if they wanted to.  

 

Never mentions why he was deported or for what...Being a soldier he shows honer, discipline and fortitude.  At some point he or they made a mistake thats gonna take awhile to rectify. 

 

Being a soldier he may not like the rules but lives by them,  its what we all share that many who have not served may not understand. Its called discipline.    Being a soldier they don't like it but accept it and deal with it as we all did, and do....with dignity, honer  

 

https://www.snopes.com/image-shows-a-group-of-deported-veterans/

 

 

 

Quote

Since 1996, the United States Government has been deporting veterans who, as legal permanent residents, joined the United States Armed Forces and served their country proudly.

I was quite surprised if this is actually true

apparently it is in some cases.

 

Martinez, 54, was born in Mexico, but came to the US as a young child and became a legal resident. He joined the Army, served with the 82nd Airborne Division, and earned an honorable discharge. But more than a decade after he left the service, he was convicted of a felony, putting his immigration status in jeopardy.

 

"One mistake shouldn't make the rest of your life," said Martinez, who spent four years in California state prison for an assault conviction stemming from a 2008 domestic violence case. "I mean I paid for what I did, I did my time. I did it quietly, went in and got out."

 

After Martinez served his time, he was handed over to Immigration and Customs Enforcement, the agency that handles deportation for the Department of Homeland Security. He spent another 10 months in detention, then was released on bond in 2014. He currently lives in Southern California, while he awaits a court date in his deportation case."

 

 

While I respect their service there really isn't enough info to understand what happened and why they were deported.

I would suspect that each case is different. One can only hope that they find a way to make it back.

 

While I was working in Korea many yrs back.  My ex, a green card holder citizen of Korea was bared from returning to the US 

at the customs in Seoul our daughters American citizens were allowed to go on..  She / we didn't know  that if she was  out of country for more then 6 months she would lose her green card status.   

 

I was working in another country at the time and had to return to Korea to straighten  it out.  Not a good feeling.

Most natural born US citizens often do not realize how lucky they are to have been born in the US.

 

You seem to have a lot of passion for this, looks like their are some veteran groups that you might connect with to put it to good use.  .

 

Wish you luck and wish them luck......

sincerely 

windwalker  

 

 

Edited by windwalker
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