Gun Control and Shootings

[Marblehead]

6 hours ago, Brian said:

I'd watch out for homicidal maniacs driving cars and trucks, and anyone with a backpack, or a pressure cooker, or anything which could potentially contain a homemade explosive device.  Probably better avoid solid foods, too, and swimming pools and hot tubs.  In fact, might wanna just stay home, just to play it safe.

 

Oh, and be particularly cautious about men with large knives.

 

You don't come off well as a nihilist.

 

And don't you be talking about my "blades" collection.

 

[ralis]

5 hours ago, Marblehead said:

Boo!!!

 

The source of most of the problems is the government and its preaching of hatred.  Reduce the government and you will reduce this incidents.

 

 

Does that include eliminating your military retirement benefits including your paycheck?

[Brian]

1 hour ago, ralis said:

 

Does that include eliminating your military retirement benefits including your paycheck?

He didn't say "eliminate the government" but "reduce the government" and the military is one of the very few things the federal government does which it is actually supposed to do.

 

Your narrative is illogical and nonsensical.

 

Shall we discuss the Constitution and enumerated powers again???

 

This persistent false dichotomy of unlimited central government versus nihilism would be laughable if it weren't so dangerous.

Edited October 5, 2017 by Brian

[26sol]

an anarchist would say no government,power to the people.A neoliberal would say less government,keep only the good stuff, police, army the "legal violence",and power to the CEOs

[ralis]

20 minutes ago, Brian said:

He didn't say "eliminate the government" but "reduce the government" and the military is one of the very few things the federal government does which it is actually supposed to do.

 

Your narrative is illogical and nonsensical.

 

Shall we discuss the Constitution and enumerated powers again???

 

This persistent false dichotomy of unlimited central government versus nihilism would be laughable if it weren't so dangerous.

 

Your narrative is usually off the wall, irrational and condescending. Your tea party neoliberal ideology posits naive misunderstanding of the Consitution. Your illusion belongs with the originalists and textualists who are more akin to Southern Baptist preaching hell fire from the pulpit. BTW I am putting you on ignore since any discussion is a waste of time.

Edited October 5, 2017 by ralis

[Brian]

16 minutes ago, ralis said:

 

Your narrative is usually off the wall, irrational and condescending. Your tea party neoliberal ideology posits naive misunderstanding of the Consitution.

Point out one example of me positing a naive misunderstanding of the Constitution, ralis.  You have made it quite clear that you loathe the Constitution AND that you are profoundly and wilfully ignorant about it so a statement like that coming from you is both predictable and hilarious.

 

BTW, I am neither a tea party member nor a "neoliberal."

Edited October 5, 2017 by Brian

[Stosh]

49 minutes ago, 26sol said:

an anarchist would say no government,power to the people.A neoliberal would say less government,keep only the good stuff, police, army the "legal violence",and power to the CEOs

Anyone attempting to be reasonable , says keep the good stuff, and minimize the oppressive problematic stuff. 

[silent thunder]

2 hours ago, ralis said:

 

Does that include eliminating your military retirement benefits including your paycheck?

I have found it interesting that the four people in my direct family who invariably at all family gatherings will often bring the conversation round to instigate and propogate passionate discussions about government being too large.

 

1 retired military officer

2 retired public school teacher

3 retired federal court reporter

4 retired police officer

 

These four people rail, scream, #1 will nigh on foam at the mouth when talking about the bloated nature of the governing process, yet in each case, they assert that their branch was/is/remains necessary.

 

I sense they are all necessary to a point.  This point may always be pushed to a useless/parasitic extreme.

 

Humans don't seem to be balanced by nature... we seem to operate on a sort of energetic flowing by braille between the extremes of behavior and experience.

[Stosh]

14 minutes ago, silent thunder said:

I have found it interesting that the four people in my direct family who invariably at all family gatherings will often bring the conversation round to instigate and propogate passionate discussions about government being too large.

 

1 retired military officer

2 retired public school teacher

3 retired federal court reporter

4 retired police officer

 

These four people rail, scream, #1 will nigh on foam at the mouth when talking about the bloated nature of the governing process, yet in each case, they assert that their branch was/is/remains necessary.

 

I sense they are all necessary to a point.  This point may always be pushed to a useless/parasitic extreme.

 

Humans don't seem to be balanced by nature... we seem to operate on a sort of energetic flowing by braille between the extremes of behavior and experience.

Really ? scream and foam at the mouth?  

I find it ironic that people who have a hard time controlling themselves over politics , think that governance isnt important , and somehow , without it, they would all get along like lambs. 

Edited October 5, 2017 by Stosh

[silent thunder]

Just now, Stosh said:

Really ? scream and foam at the mouth?  

Yes... #1 was and is a seething pot of violence and hate.

Screaming to the point of his spit flowing around the room.

Threatening with violence and then throughout his life, becoming violent.

 

#1 had what I call the three levels of his truth.

 

First, he would tell you the truth.

If you weren't capable of understanding, he would begin to shout the truth at you and threaten you.

If you were still unable to comprehend, (he often assumed it was willfully denying truth) and would then hit the truth into you... for your own good.

 

When we finally and formally cut ties with him and forbid him from any further contact with us or our son, he respected us enough, or hated us enough to comply and we did not complete the process of a court issued restraining order.

 

#1 is a terrifying bundle of justifiable violence for the greater good.

[Stosh]

45 minutes ago, silent thunder said:

Yes... #1 was and is a seething pot of violence and hate.

Screaming to the point of his spit flowing around the room.

Threatening with violence and then throughout his life, becoming violent.

 

#1 had what I call the three levels of his truth.

 

First, he would tell you the truth.

If you weren't capable of understanding, he would begin to shout the truth at you and threaten you.

If you were still unable to comprehend, (he often assumed it was willfully denying truth) and would then hit the truth into you... for your own good.

 

When we finally and formally cut ties with him and forbid him from any further contact with us or our son, he respected us enough, or hated us enough to comply and we did not complete the process of a court issued restraining order.

 

#1 is a terrifying bundle of justifiable violence for the greater good.

Oh that is horrible , an extreme example of things I've seen myself. , I would bet a million he actually feels justified. 

[cold]

I have two uncles, both cops, one a mean nasty fella.

The other the complete opposite, respectful easygoing down right nice!

[Stosh]

21 minutes ago, silent thunder said:

Though life balances always, or moves toward balance and I should add that the retired teacher and the detective (who is brother to #1) are married and are two of the most compassionate and loving people one could wish to be near.  They remain cornerstones of healing and love in our family.

 

It has always amazed and inspired me that a man who spent his career as a detective trying to bring murderers and burglars to justice and dealing with the small % of people who create all the trouble, could remain so hopeful and optimistic.

 

Since, Not everyone fits the same mold, not everyone finds a happy way to get through things or reacts to the same stuff likewise. and , 

Most of us are capable of a variety of presentations which depend on circumstance... and ..I really don't know one of theses guys from the next ,

So, I take your presentation as , the more informed, yet,     I reserve the right to form an opinion that may not be the same. 

There are popular people who I think low of,  and difficult people I think highly of.

the temptation to boil people down to good and bad is one I like to withhold. 

But I still agree,  that the craziness and loss of control , at families and on holidays is really messed up. 

 

Edited October 5, 2017 by Stosh

[Marblehead]

5 hours ago, ralis said:

 

Does that include eliminating your military retirement benefits including your paycheck?

Getting a little personal there, aren't you, young man?

 

I earned my retirement.  Just as I earned my Social Security.

 

Congress hasn't done anything this year so far.  All members should return all their paychecks as well as all the under-the-table benefits they have received since the first of the year.

 

I am not talking about people who defend our country.  I was speaking of those who are trying to destroy it.  Big difference.

 

[ralis]

[Brian]

1 hour ago, ralis said:

Sounds good!

 

Which of those three things would have prevented the Vegas mass murders?

[windwalker]

 

Edited October 7, 2017 by windwalker

[windwalker]

 

[joeblast]

On 10/4/2017 at 9:12 PM, ralis said:

 

I am supposed to somehow protect myself from incidents such as what happened in Vegas? Exactly how does that work? Bullet proof vests, advanced psychic abilities, looking over my shoulder every few seconds and so forth. Your narrative is absurd!

Its easier than that.

 

All you have to do is pay attention to when and where DHS/FBI are doing "training" events, and stay the hell away when you see one near where you plan on being.

 

DHS had a single shooter training over the weekend, in Vegas.  Craigslist ad couple weeks ago for Crowds on demand for a vegas event.

 

Orlando, Sand Bernadino, both had active shooter training events going on while the "event" happened.  Boston had its "bomb training" during the marathon, Sandy Hook had its "school shooting training" going on next door, 911 had its planes flying into buildings training for Norad.  Every single one of these was a training that had a real live event of what the training was for happen.  Is there a better way to disrupt first response than to overlay a training of the exact thing?

 

Vegas was one of the sloppiest jobs ever and it just shows that the people who schedule these things to happen feel bold enough that they dont even think they have to come up with a scenario that even comes close to making sense, even in one of the places with the highest density of recording cameras on the planet.  What, they didnt expect that people would get video of "shooting" and seeing absolutely no muzzle flash from the 32nd floor in any of the videos?  Ever seen the spit of fire that comes off the end of a gun in the dark?  Photos of the alleged room location where the shooting came from dont indicate there was any attempt to hide or obscure by sight or sound.  (If such operational secrecy was required, then it would have been plenty easy to open up a ~foot in diameter hole and then build some sort of scaffolding halfway or more into the room to shoot from - snipers have employed this tactic for quite some time to hide their location since the room would contain some of the light and almost all of the sound.)

 

Its pretty obvious that Fast & Furious is still going on (thanks obama!  lol...I digress, it did not begin with the manchurian candidate,) we have a guy who worked for lockheed, one of the biggest of the global fascism MIC companies in the world, who leaves there and is unemployed yet he's a millionaire and has planes and does some real estate deals, gambles stupendously and has 6+ figures to wire around?  (I'll be he wasnt expecting to become a murdered patsy on this particular job!)  But the photo of his head had a conspicuously small amount of blood pooling.....the hilarious lack of brass on the floor strains credulity, it was like they tossed a handful or two on the floor, there couldnt have been more than a hundred pieces of brass on the floor....and cmon, the weapon laid across his left leg, that just made the whole story one big joke.  The way the magazines were neatly stacked there....and what of the shootout with the cops, confirmed 2 shooters over the police scanner.....the idea of someone "not connected" being able to install cameras of his own in the Mandalay Bay is simply absurd.  The scopes on "bump stocked" rifles was another amusing touch that anyone whose been around guns would laugh at, along with the understanding that an AR-15 will empty a 30 round clip in just a few seconds.

 

Fully auto belt fed m240s are not legal for citizens to own - go look at the video overlaying the FPS russia guy shooting the m240 and then look at the waveforms of the audio and its pretty clear that *one* of the weapons being shot was an m240.  But any observant mind can easily tell from all the available video evidence that there was more than one and highly likely more than two shooters.  There wasnt much for things to echo off of, the Luxor is the only close building but that's pyramid shaped and not entirely conducive to such acoustic reflection.  The echoes sometimes line up as if they were echoes.

 

Put that together with the backscatter machines that were decom'd from europe because they were deemed to be dangerous with the immediate calls for these devices to be placed in hotels and casinos.  Follow that money chain through the ownership of Mandalay, the owners of the companies that make the backscatter devices, and the Chertoffs of the world who overlap there and DHS and you have yet another picture of the very ugly world of global fascism.  (And please dont give me any shite about the purported right wingedness of fascism - the merger of corporate and state is plenty enough to call it fascism, the feaux rightleft dichotomy be damned.  That goes for the purported nationalistic-ness of fascism also, this version is trans-national that seeks to own the entire world in title and deed and seeks to override the sovereignty of all nations, just like the fedgov has assumed itself to override the sovereignty of the individual states, just like the EU has assumed itself to override as much as possible the sovereignty of member states.)

 

 

And before you try dismissing this analysis of events, please look into the other hotels that got opened fire on, e.g. the Bellagio

 

and then you can take a look at this picture here that shows the cops hunkered down, and shocker, there's no holes in the windows on the 32nd floor at that point in time.  Column pattern changes from top down, 3 rooms vertically with their lights on, then 1, 2, three below it is the 32nd floor.

 

 

Simply disgusting watching these operations get carried out and the stories spun by the propaganda arms of the corporations.

 

ISIS claims responsibility, and Israeli media had it posted by 3am local time in vegas that the shooter was islamic.  But that's a ho ho chuckle anyway - because anyone paying attention already knows that ISIS is a mercenary army fabrication of the ciamossad created after Abu Musab Al Zarqawi leader of AQ in Iraq started to not cooperate with his handlers back in 06 or so,

before there was a couple year lull and then all of a sudden ISIS is the new and improved boogeyman that'll fake beheadings in front of a green screen for John McCain and

his aides to view and chuckle at....but too bad for them and the clintons that they dont know jack shit about data security otherwise it wouldnt have been hacked off their phones after one of Mccain's visits to Syria - Syria, oh Syria, which is the geopolitical chokepoint through which any pipeline from the ME to europe must run, and that's important if they're going to mess with the price of oil to try and fk russia further since they arent being too cooperative with the march of global fascism.  This is simply geopolitics 101, and to me, ISIS claiming his membership is but a wink and nod.

 

Gun control can be pushed only so much, so long as the people think there's a functioning Constitution.  Things like the Patriot Act or Obamacare show rather clearly that...oh, there's those names again - The Constitution For These United States of America isnt quite the same document as the Constitution of the United States, and when the debts for the civil war came due and the acts of 1871 were passed and the corporations of the united states came to be defined..............well, they had us by the lawballs there, and that only set the stage for the clipping of the nation's money balls via the unconstitutional federal reserve act - but then again, people dont really understand that the power to levy those taxes was actually conveyed by the 14th amendment, which didnt quite so much free slaves so much as create a whole new underclass of citizen-subject complete with as added benefit, for Joe Schmoe, a new legal straw man called JOE SCHMOE- which, by the way, is the whole entire basis for the statement that Corporations are People - they are both straw man entities that are wholly fictional in nature.  I mean, how else are they to "legally" violate "the constitution" via unapportioned taxation?  Its really a rather tangled web that has been meticulously woven.

 

Perhaps I've gone too far off into the weeds, but point is, I just chuckle when people talk about the constitution....which incidentally was never ratified by Congress, as was prescribed for the original revising of the Articles of Confederation.  Pops is a constitutional scholar that boasted how he was trained by one of the most respected constitutional minds of the time, and the "legal" assertion is that this new government has a contract directly with the people and wholly overrides anything a State wishes to do, which is the whole basis for the silly excuse that "its illegal to secede"..../waves over to Catalonia, echoes of if voting mattered then they wouldnt let you do it....the "USA" was a farce from 1776 onward, there was never any clamor amongst the populace to revise the articles to begin with....but that's just more inconvenient history that some would rather not become widespread knowledge.

 

 

 

 

I dont intend on debating these points.  If people want to white knuckle grip a worldview that asserts the logical fallacy that (deep).gov's culpability is simply impossible because "they wouldnt do something like that," then...lol....*shrugs*....but believe me I'll be looking out for "training events" should I happen to plan on travel or going out to some crowded event.

 

/waves to the crowd and dips back behind the curtain to run along the brick wall, strum a guitar or two on the rack before slipping out the back door

[Brian]

3 hours ago, joeblast said:

Its easier than that.

 

All you have to do is pay attention to when and where DHS/FBI are doing "training" events, and stay the hell away when you see one near where you plan on being.

 

DHS had a single shooter training over the weekend, in Vegas.  Craigslist ad couple weeks ago for Crowds on demand for a vegas event.

 

Orlando, Sand Bernadino, both had active shooter training events going on while the "event" happened.  Boston had its "bomb training" during the marathon, Sandy Hook had its "school shooting training" going on next door, 911 had its planes flying into buildings training for Norad.  Every single one of these was a training that had a real live event of what the training was for happen.  Is there a better way to disrupt first response than to overlay a training of the exact thing?

 

Vegas was one of the sloppiest jobs ever and it just shows that the people who schedule these things to happen feel bold enough that they dont even think they have to come up with a scenario that even comes close to making sense, even in one of the places with the highest density of recording cameras on the planet.  What, they didnt expect that people would get video of "shooting" and seeing absolutely no muzzle flash from the 32nd floor in any of the videos?  Ever seen the spit of fire that comes off the end of a gun in the dark?  Photos of the alleged room location where the shooting came from dont indicate there was any attempt to hide or obscure by sight or sound.  (If such operational secrecy was required, then it would have been plenty easy to open up a ~foot in diameter hole and then build some sort of scaffolding halfway or more into the room to shoot from - snipers have employed this tactic for quite some time to hide their location since the room would contain some of the light and almost all of the sound.)

 

Its pretty obvious that Fast & Furious is still going on (thanks obama!  lol...I digress, it did not begin with the manchurian candidate,) we have a guy who worked for lockheed, one of the biggest of the global fascism MIC companies in the world, who leaves there and is unemployed yet he's a millionaire and has planes and does some real estate deals, gambles stupendously and has 6+ figures to wire around?  (I'll be he wasnt expecting to become a murdered patsy on this particular job!)  But the photo of his head had a conspicuously small amount of blood pooling.....the hilarious lack of brass on the floor strains credulity, it was like they tossed a handful or two on the floor, there couldnt have been more than a hundred pieces of brass on the floor....and cmon, the weapon laid across his left leg, that just made the whole story one big joke.  The way the magazines were neatly stacked there....and what of the shootout with the cops, confirmed 2 shooters over the police scanner.....the idea of someone "not connected" being able to install cameras of his own in the Mandalay Bay is simply absurd.  The scopes on "bump stocked" rifles was another amusing touch that anyone whose been around guns would laugh at, along with the understanding that an AR-15 will empty a 30 round clip in just a few seconds.

 

Fully auto belt fed m240s are not legal for citizens to own - go look at the video overlaying the FPS russia guy shooting the m240 and then look at the waveforms of the audio and its pretty clear that *one* of the weapons being shot was an m240.  But any observant mind can easily tell from all the available video evidence that there was more than one and highly likely more than two shooters.  There wasnt much for things to echo off of, the Luxor is the only close building but that's pyramid shaped and not entirely conducive to such acoustic reflection.  The echoes sometimes line up as if they were echoes.

 

Put that together with the backscatter machines that were decom'd from europe because they were deemed to be dangerous with the immediate calls for these devices to be placed in hotels and casinos.  Follow that money chain through the ownership of Mandalay, the owners of the companies that make the backscatter devices, and the Chertoffs of the world who overlap there and DHS and you have yet another picture of the very ugly world of global fascism.  (And please dont give me any shite about the purported right wingedness of fascism - the merger of corporate and state is plenty enough to call it fascism, the feaux rightleft dichotomy be damned.  That goes for the purported nationalistic-ness of fascism also, this version is trans-national that seeks to own the entire world in title and deed and seeks to override the sovereignty of all nations, just like the fedgov has assumed itself to override the sovereignty of the individual states, just like the EU has assumed itself to override as much as possible the sovereignty of member states.)

 

 

And before you try dismissing this analysis of events, please look into the other hotels that got opened fire on, e.g. the Bellagio

 

and then you can take a look at this picture here that shows the cops hunkered down, and shocker, there's no holes in the windows on the 32nd floor at that point in time.  Column pattern changes from top down, 3 rooms vertically with their lights on, then 1, 2, three below it is the 32nd floor.

 

 

Simply disgusting watching these operations get carried out and the stories spun by the propaganda arms of the corporations.

 

ISIS claims responsibility, and Israeli media had it posted by 3am local time in vegas that the shooter was islamic.  But that's a ho ho chuckle anyway - because anyone paying attention already knows that ISIS is a mercenary army fabrication of the ciamossad created after Abu Musab Al Zarqawi leader of AQ in Iraq started to not cooperate with his handlers back in 06 or so,

  Reveal hidden contents

before there was a couple year lull and then all of a sudden ISIS is the new and improved boogeyman that'll fake beheadings in front of a green screen for John McCain and

his aides to view and chuckle at....but too bad for them and the clintons that they dont know jack shit about data security otherwise it wouldnt have been hacked off their phones after one of Mccain's visits to Syria - Syria, oh Syria, which is the geopolitical chokepoint through which any pipeline from the ME to europe must run, and that's important if they're going to mess with the price of oil to try and fk russia further since they arent being too cooperative with the march of global fascism.  This is simply geopolitics 101, and to me, ISIS claiming his membership is but a wink and nod.

 

Gun control can be pushed only so much, so long as the people think there's a functioning Constitution.  Things like the Patriot Act or Obamacare show rather clearly that...oh, there's those names again - The Constitution For These United States of America isnt quite the same document as the Constitution of the United States, and when the debts for the civil war came due and the acts of 1871 were passed and the corporations of the united states came to be defined..............well, they had us by the lawballs there, and that only set the stage for the clipping of the nation's money balls via the unconstitutional federal reserve act - but then again, people dont really understand that the power to levy those taxes was actually conveyed by the 14th amendment, which didnt quite so much free slaves so much as create a whole new underclass of citizen-subject complete with as added benefit, for Joe Schmoe, a new legal straw man called JOE SCHMOE- which, by the way, is the whole entire basis for the statement that Corporations are People - they are both straw man entities that are wholly fictional in nature.  I mean, how else are they to "legally" violate "the constitution" via unapportioned taxation?  Its really a rather tangled web that has been meticulously woven.

 

Perhaps I've gone too far off into the weeds, but point is, I just chuckle when people talk about the constitution....which incidentally was never ratified by Congress, as was prescribed for the original revising of the Articles of Confederation.  Pops is a constitutional scholar that boasted how he was trained by one of the most respected constitutional minds of the time, and the "legal" assertion is that this new government has a contract directly with the people and wholly overrides anything a State wishes to do, which is the whole basis for the silly excuse that "its illegal to secede"..../waves over to Catalonia, echoes of if voting mattered then they wouldnt let you do it....the "USA" was a farce from 1776 onward, there was never any clamor amongst the populace to revise the articles to begin with....but that's just more inconvenient history that some would rather not become widespread knowledge.

 

 

 

 

 

I dont intend on debating these points.  If people want to white knuckle grip a worldview that asserts the logical fallacy that (deep).gov's culpability is simply impossible because "they wouldnt do something like that," then...lol....*shrugs*....but believe me I'll be looking out for "training events" should I happen to plan on travel or going out to some crowded event.

 

/waves to the crowd and dips back behind the curtain to run along the brick wall, strum a guitar or two on the rack before slipping out the back door

Welcome back!

[zerostao]

z

Edited February 20, 2018 by zerostao

[zerostao]

I do want to mention that my previous post is not speaking to the merits of gun control or gun access. It addresses the reality of the situation. We live in a country that has more guns than it has citizens. That is a fact. They are not just going to vanish just because some people decide hey these guns were a bad idea. I respect that TDB is somewhat of a spiritual forum/space. However, we cannot ignore unpleasant realities.
Hey Rene, how is the mod thing going?! Hang in there!

[MooNiNite]

multiple shooters?

 

 

[MooNiNite]

The video above is actually well done if anyone has an interest in the subject.  

Edited October 19, 2017 by MooNiNite

[windwalker]

4 hours ago, MooNiNite said:

multiple shooters?

 

 

 

 

hard to prove I would think, unless  some of the rounds found do not match the weapons in his room.